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this is why atheist deserve to burn in hell.

steffon66
Posts: 240
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7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/11/2014 5:09:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

God is claimed to interact with the physical.
Interacting with the physical leaves physical evidence.
There is no objective evidence for God.

So I apply the same reasoning theists use in disbelieving in fairies, Leprechauns, unicorns, mermaids, gremlins and unicorns and conclude that since there is no evidence for God (and there would have to be if he existed), that God does not exist.

Of course that's just one of many, MANY points.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
steffon66
Posts: 240
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7/11/2014 5:22:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 5:09:50 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

God is claimed to interact with the physical.
Interacting with the physical leaves physical evidence.
There is no objective evidence for God.

So I apply the same reasoning theists use in disbelieving in fairies, Leprechauns, unicorns, mermaids, gremlins and unicorns and conclude that since there is no evidence for God (and there would have to be if he existed), that God does not exist.

Of course that's just one of many, MANY points.

so what are some more. that one doesnt seem like a very good argument to me becuase god is supposed to be all powerful. if he was all powerful then surely he could interact with the physical world without leaving any physical evidence unless he wasnt all powerful and the claim is that he is all powerful.
NathanDuclos
Posts: 51
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7/11/2014 5:37:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Three reasons.

Besides the other reasons, no proof, its contradictory, it leads to bad behavior, its left over when leeching was thought to cure disease, and that its obviously stolen, the "god box" experiments, there is nothing super natural, ext ext ext .

An odd one - There can be no good if you believe in god. AKA If I and a christian sees a car about to run over a small child, if he runs out to save the child he risks nothing, his reward (fictional) is that hes doing good and god will reward him. If I do it, its because its good in an of itself. A Christan doing anything out of good is doing it for a reward of heaven or fear of hell which is not good. Good is good, good is not for a reward.

Which god?

I dont know is honest, where 'god did it' is intellectual suicide and answer nothing.

Everyone has good or evil in them but to truly be evil you need god.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/11/2014 7:02:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 5:09:50 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

God is claimed to interact with the physical.
Interacting with the physical leaves physical evidence.
There is no objective evidence for God.

Physical evidence is not the same as objective evidence. So your point 3 should say physical evidence.

The arrangement of matter is physical evidence for god.


So I apply the same reasoning theists use in disbelieving in fairies, Leprechauns, unicorns, mermaids, gremlins and unicorns and conclude that since there is no evidence for God (and there would have to be if he existed), that God does not exist.

Of course that's just one of many, MANY points.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/11/2014 8:09:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

Arguments against omnibenevolence/mainstream religion & Christian/Islamic God

AntiGod hypothesis (Stephen Law)
PoE (via. Naturalistic animal suffering)
Argument from perfection
Evolution (which has elements of all of the above)

Arguments against Creator God:

Creation ex nihilo
Fine tuning argument (yes, it works the other way)
Materialism

Arguments against omnipotence/omniscience:

Noncognitism (are such attributes philosophically sensical)
Necessity of naturalism (also works for creator), which borrows from anti-Cartesian dualism arguments

General:

And of course, everyone needs to know the following:

Occam's Razor
Default position of disbelief/rejection

The latter 2 are usually enough to refute most theistic arguments for God I find, as they seldom provide, and cannot possibly provide additional explanatory power with the large amount of additional assumptions.

Hope this helps!
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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7/11/2014 8:15:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

You misunderstand the atheist position. First of all, you don't necessarily need the / in between agnostic and atheist. If you are an agnostic atheist, that means you accept the possibility of god in the abstract, but practically you do not believe that one exists.

The atheist burden of proof is threefold.

1. Discredit any arguments that affirm a deity
2. Argue that there is not sufficient evidence to prove a deity, thus theoretically, agnosticism should be accepted as true for the timebeing.
3. Argue that a skeptical outlook on a position of ignorance towards positive affirmations made is appropriate.

Basically, when someone presents a hypothesis, it is incorrect until proven true, and not correct until proven false, or a viable option until proven true or false, but assumed to be false. It is important to separate instances where experience trumps skepticism, like assuming the bump from the window is probably a bird on a sunny day, or if the door rings several times, and you open it, no one is there, and you assume it is the neighbor kids.
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/11/2014 8:30:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

While atheism is not an assertion that God does not exist, I'll entertain you anyway...

My favorite starting point on the subject would be logical contradictions. When someone uses the term "impossible", there are 3 basic meanings: practically impossible (unrealistic), physically impossible (violates the laws of physics) and logically impossible (violates logic). Logically impossible is the highest form of impossible one can contemplate, and I find in most cases that when people actually define their god they can't help but contradict themselves.

A God that is all loving yet created hell violates logic. A God who is perfect yet needs worship violates logic. A God who is perfectly just yet merciful violates logic. I could go on. So if you're arguing for any of these definitions then I have no problem telling you that your god does not exist.

Occams Razor would also lead us to conclude that the non-existence of God is more likely then existence, but I am currently in a debate about that so I will reserve my arguments. Feel free to follow...
http://www.debate.org...
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/11/2014 8:33:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 7:02:22 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
The arrangement of matter is physical evidence for god.

Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by the arrangement of matter, and also defining god? Then perhaps you could explain how arrangement of matter leads us to what you are defining.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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7/11/2014 8:34:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 8:09:14 PM, Envisage wrote:

Fine tuning argument (yes, it works the other way)

I actually just want to know how this works out. Could you briefly explain?

Thanks.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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7/11/2014 8:35:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 8:09:14 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

Arguments against omnibenevolence/mainstream religion & Christian/Islamic God

AntiGod hypothesis (Stephen Law)
PoE (via. Naturalistic animal suffering)
Argument from perfection
Evolution (which has elements of all of the above)

Arguments against Creator God:

Creation ex nihilo
Fine tuning argument (yes, it works the other way)
Materialism

Arguments against omnipotence/omniscience:

Noncognitism (are such attributes philosophically sensical)
Necessity of naturalism (also works for creator), which borrows from anti-Cartesian dualism arguments

General:

And of course, everyone needs to know the following:

Occam's Razor
Default position of disbelief/rejection

The latter 2 are usually enough to refute most theistic arguments for God I find, as they seldom provide, and cannot possibly provide additional explanatory power with the large amount of additional assumptions.

Hope this helps!

wow thats a lot of them. thanks : )
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/11/2014 8:40:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 8:34:31 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 7/11/2014 8:09:14 PM, Envisage wrote:

Fine tuning argument (yes, it works the other way)

I actually just want to know how this works out. Could you briefly explain?

Thanks.

I have a full structure somewhere... But it's based on teleology/purpose, and that the universe is not optimally tuned for life.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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7/11/2014 8:41:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 8:30:12 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

While atheism is not an assertion that God does not exist, I'll entertain you anyway...

My favorite starting point on the subject would be logical contradictions. When someone uses the term "impossible", there are 3 basic meanings: practically impossible (unrealistic), physically impossible (violates the laws of physics) and logically impossible (violates logic). Logically impossible is the highest form of impossible one can contemplate, and I find in most cases that when people actually define their god they can't help but contradict themselves.

A God that is all loving yet created hell violates logic. A God who is perfect yet needs worship violates logic. A God who is perfectly just yet merciful violates logic. I could go on. So if you're arguing for any of these definitions then I have no problem telling you that your god does not exist.

Occams Razor would also lead us to conclude that the non-existence of God is more likely then existence, but I am currently in a debate about that so I will reserve my arguments. Feel free to follow...
http://www.debate.org...

well atheism is the belief that god doesnt exist while that is a belief and not an assertion atheists assert their disbelief in god so im asking them to assert their arguments against god. dont know why your trying to make me feel stupid and how your argument accomplishes that because it didnt but maybe im too stupid to get it. lol thanks for your arguments against RELIGION. i have used a few of those and hadnt thought of some of the other ones.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/11/2014 9:46:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 8:41:45 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 7/11/2014 8:30:12 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

While atheism is not an assertion that God does not exist, I'll entertain you anyway...

My favorite starting point on the subject would be logical contradictions. When someone uses the term "impossible", there are 3 basic meanings: practically impossible (unrealistic), physically impossible (violates the laws of physics) and logically impossible (violates logic). Logically impossible is the highest form of impossible one can contemplate, and I find in most cases that when people actually define their god they can't help but contradict themselves.

A God that is all loving yet created hell violates logic. A God who is perfect yet needs worship violates logic. A God who is perfectly just yet merciful violates logic. I could go on. So if you're arguing for any of these definitions then I have no problem telling you that your god does not exist.

Occams Razor would also lead us to conclude that the non-existence of God is more likely then existence, but I am currently in a debate about that so I will reserve my arguments. Feel free to follow...
http://www.debate.org...

well atheism is the belief that god doesnt exist while that is a belief and not an assertion atheists assert their disbelief in god so im asking them to assert their arguments against god. dont know why your trying to make me feel stupid and how your argument accomplishes that because it didnt but maybe im too stupid to get it. lol thanks for your arguments against RELIGION. i have used a few of those and hadnt thought of some of the other ones.

Atheism is not an assertion that gods do not exist, it is a rejection of the claim that a god does exist. I just stated this. Do you accept that or not?

You asked for arguments supporting the non-existence of god, I provided some. How is that trying to make you look stupid?
steffon66
Posts: 240
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7/11/2014 9:50:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:46:12 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 7/11/2014 8:41:45 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 7/11/2014 8:30:12 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 7/11/2014 4:13:28 PM, steffon66 wrote:
just kidding... lol just wanted to get all the atheists here. i want to know what your arguments are for atheism. i am an agnostic/atheist and i have arguments for why god must be bad or non existent but i dont have too many arguments for why there probably isnt a god other than the fact that this means god came from nothing and created everything out of nothing so what created him? and then what created what created him. eventually you get back to a point where something extremely powerful came from nothing and i just think there is a much better explanation for things though i dont know what it is. so what are your arguments for the non existence of god?

While atheism is not an assertion that God does not exist, I'll entertain you anyway...

My favorite starting point on the subject would be logical contradictions. When someone uses the term "impossible", there are 3 basic meanings: practically impossible (unrealistic), physically impossible (violates the laws of physics) and logically impossible (violates logic). Logically impossible is the highest form of impossible one can contemplate, and I find in most cases that when people actually define their god they can't help but contradict themselves.

A God that is all loving yet created hell violates logic. A God who is perfect yet needs worship violates logic. A God who is perfectly just yet merciful violates logic. I could go on. So if you're arguing for any of these definitions then I have no problem telling you that your god does not exist.

Occams Razor would also lead us to conclude that the non-existence of God is more likely then existence, but I am currently in a debate about that so I will reserve my arguments. Feel free to follow...
http://www.debate.org...

well atheism is the belief that god doesnt exist while that is a belief and not an assertion atheists assert their disbelief in god so im asking them to assert their arguments against god. dont know why your trying to make me feel stupid and how your argument accomplishes that because it didnt but maybe im too stupid to get it. lol thanks for your arguments against RELIGION. i have used a few of those and hadnt thought of some of the other ones.

Atheism is not an assertion that gods do not exist, it is a rejection of the claim that a god does exist. I just stated this. Do you accept that or not?

You asked for arguments supporting the non-existence of god, I provided some. How is that trying to make you look stupid?

oh ok that makes sense. atheism is the rejection of the claim that god exists. im with you now. and i thought you were trying to make me feel stupid by telling me that atheism isnt an assertion that god doesnt exist but ill entertain you anyways not by you providing arguments. thank you for those btw.