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Salvation is By Grace, Not Reward/Punishment

sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/11/2014 6:28:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
One of the biggest misunderstandings about Christianity is the idea that Christians are motivated by a system of rewards and punishments.

But that simply isn't true. In fact, it's OPPOSITE from the truth.
That only applies to FALSE "Christianity."

Now, granted, most professing, so-called "Christians" are motivated by such a system.
But that has NOTHING to DO with BIBLICAL Christianity!

All throughout the New Testament, it says that salvation is ALL of God's GRACE (unmerited favor).
And the New Testament declares that THAT was ALWAYS the CASE!
All the prophets and saints of old understood that.

Here are just a few examples from the Scriptures:

Romans 3:20-24
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Romans 1:1-5
"Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God-- the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith."

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 11:6
"And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."Acts 15:11
"No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Now....

You might say, "OK, if that's so, then why do Christians warn people about Hell?
Aren't they promoting a system of belief based on fear of punishment?"

Well, JUST BECAUSE Christians WARN UNBELIEVERS about HELL,
that doesn't mean that CHRISTIANS fear Hell!

A true Christian is one who believes Christ saved him from going to Hell.
So it's the UNBELIEVER who needs the warning, NOT the CHRISTIAN!

"And what about HEAVEN? Why do Christians make such a big deal out of Heaven?"
--Because Heaven is where we'll be with the SAVIOR forever!

Yes, he's our reward, but we didn't EARN that reward. Again, he's given to us by GRACE!

Now, again, my point is that even though multitudes of professing, so-called "Christians" are motivated by reward and punishment,
those who have actually understood what salvation really is, know that their works having no bearing on their standing with God.
They know that their righteousness before God is the righteousness of Christ, imputed to them by faith.
And they dare not add to, or subtract from, the finished work of Christ, or try to earn God's favor by works.

So this criticism against Christianity is not against true Christianity, but only against the apostate, false "Christianity."

So, don't confuse Biblical Christianity with FALSE "Christianity."
True Christians are motivated by GRACE.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/11/2014 11:46:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 6:28:22 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
One of the biggest misunderstandings about Christianity is the idea that Christians are motivated by a system of rewards and punishments.

But that simply isn't true. In fact, it's OPPOSITE from the truth.
That only applies to FALSE "Christianity."

Now, granted, most professing, so-called "Christians" are motivated by such a system.
But that has NOTHING to DO with BIBLICAL Christianity!

All throughout the New Testament, it says that salvation is ALL of God's GRACE (unmerited favor).
And the New Testament declares that THAT was ALWAYS the CASE!
All the prophets and saints of old understood that.

Here are just a few examples from the Scriptures:

Romans 3:20-24
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Romans 1:1-5
"Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God-- the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith."

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 11:6
"And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."Acts 15:11
"No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."



Now....

You might say, "OK, if that's so, then why do Christians warn people about Hell?
Aren't they promoting a system of belief based on fear of punishment?"

Well, JUST BECAUSE Christians WARN UNBELIEVERS about HELL,
that doesn't mean that CHRISTIANS fear Hell!

A true Christian is one who believes Christ saved him from going to Hell.
So it's the UNBELIEVER who needs the warning, NOT the CHRISTIAN!

"And what about HEAVEN? Why do Christians make such a big deal out of Heaven?"
--Because Heaven is where we'll be with the SAVIOR forever!

Yes, he's our reward, but we didn't EARN that reward. Again, he's given to us by GRACE!

Now, again, my point is that even though multitudes of professing, so-called "Christians" are motivated by reward and punishment,
those who have actually understood what salvation really is, know that their works having no bearing on their standing with God.
They know that their righteousness before God is the righteousness of Christ, imputed to them by faith.
And they dare not add to, or subtract from, the finished work of Christ, or try to earn God's favor by works.

So this criticism against Christianity is not against true Christianity, but only against the apostate, false "Christianity."

So, don't confuse Biblical Christianity with FALSE "Christianity."
True Christians are motivated by GRACE.

The new testament has deceived every single person who has ever read it. That's because antichrists and false prophets produced it and approved by the Vatican, a group of antichrists and false prophets who had no idea who our invisible Creator was.

Here's a prophecy to show you that ALL God's created people will know our invisible Creator in the next age, which I like to call Paradise. It's known as the New Heaven and Earth after this world is destroyed to end the first age according to God's plan.

Jeremiah 31
31: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32: not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

It's the flesh of man that dies in this age, not the spirit of man that exists in God forever.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/11/2014 11:57:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Paul is not Jesus and to follow Pauline Christianity is to be deceived by Paul. The Gospels teach Christianity. Paul teaches idolatry of Jesus Christ instead. Jesus teaches us to look to God while Paul teaches looking at Jesus Christ as an Idol standing between you and God. An Idol you must bow down to (in Paul's way of course or be condemned) instead of as a human being showing us how God speaks to humanity.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/11/2014 11:59:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 11:57:17 PM, skinker wrote:
Paul is not Jesus and to follow Pauline Christianity is to be deceived by Paul. The Gospels teach Christianity. Paul teaches idolatry of Jesus Christ instead. Jesus teaches us to look to God while Paul teaches looking at Jesus Christ as an Idol standing between you and God. An Idol you must bow down to (in Paul's way of course or be condemned) instead of as a human being showing us how God speaks to humanity.

Paul gives Christians this weird idea they don't have to do anything to be "saved" but "believe". Well, Jesus Christ says you have to Work for salvation, belief isn't enough as God needs workers, not free-loaders who think mouthing the words, "Praise Jesus" and group hysteria constitutes the Christian life.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/12/2014 12:09:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 11:57:17 PM, skinker wrote:
Paul is not Jesus and to follow Pauline Christianity is to be deceived by Paul. The Gospels teach Christianity. Paul teaches idolatry of Jesus Christ instead. Jesus teaches us to look to God while Paul teaches looking at Jesus Christ as an Idol standing between you and God. An Idol you must bow down to (in Paul's way of course or be condemned) instead of as a human being showing us how God speaks to humanity.

That's incorrect. Haven't you read the book of John?

The Lord Jesus said: "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

He said: "I and my father are one." (John 10:30)

He said: "Very truly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58)

John also said of Christ:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-3)

You said the Gospels teach Christianity. Well, what do you call the book of John?
Isn't it one of the Gospels? And doesn't it clearly declare Christ to be God?
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/12/2014 12:17:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Pauline Christians: Please read your Gospels and follow Jesus and not Paul who led you falsely into chucking Jesus' teachings and substituting Paul's instead.

Here is what Jesus said: "Then He said to His disciples, 'The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest."

Let us not hear Paul's heresy that Christians don't have to work at their faith as Paul lies to such gullible believers. The lie? The "Gift" of Grace which is not a gift at all under Paul's theology as a real gift is given freely, no strings attached. Paul's "Gift" has this huge string attached that turns it into a Contract. You must "believe" in the Gift's strings, Paul's mantra that Jesus Christ represents everything under the sun and is a God Man instead of a human being, or face eternal damnation in Hell. Some "Gift", uh?
Imagine your parents giving such "gifts" on your birthday or Christmas. "Here, son, this toy train's all for you but you must obey me and do everything I say or you don't get it. In fact, you will be punished beyond your wildest horror fantasies if you don't obey me and do everything I say. Gee, Dad, thanks so much.." and the boy goes out and buys himself a toy assault rifle and decides to do suicide by cop by pointing it at the nearest cop car..
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/12/2014 12:31:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 12:17:46 AM, skinker wrote:
Pauline Christians: Please read your Gospels and follow Jesus and not Paul who led you falsely into chucking Jesus' teachings and substituting Paul's instead.

Here is what Jesus said: "Then He said to His disciples, 'The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest."

Let us not hear Paul's heresy that Christians don't have to work at their faith as Paul lies to such gullible believers. The lie? The "Gift" of Grace which is not a gift at all under Paul's theology as a real gift is given freely, no strings attached. Paul's "Gift" has this huge string attached that turns it into a Contract. You must "believe" in the Gift's strings, Paul's mantra that Jesus Christ represents everything under the sun and is a God Man instead of a human being, or face eternal damnation in Hell. Some "Gift", uh?
Imagine your parents giving such "gifts" on your birthday or Christmas. "Here, son, this toy train's all for you but you must obey me and do everything I say or you don't get it. In fact, you will be punished beyond your wildest horror fantasies if you don't obey me and do everything I say. Gee, Dad, thanks so much.." and the boy goes out and buys himself a toy assault rifle and decides to do suicide by cop by pointing it at the nearest cop car..

Have you read the book of John yet?

Maybe you can start by reading the verses I quoted from John.

Jesus is clearly God.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/12/2014 12:40:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why are trying to divert the conversation here? We're not talking about whether or not Jesus is God but about doing the Job of a Christian, i.e. doing the Work of a Christian and not falling for irrational "grace" without work Pauline false doctrine.

Do I have to quote John for you to recognize your error? Read John yourself and learn:

"I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no man can work."
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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7/28/2014 8:29:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 6:28:22 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
One of the biggest misunderstandings about Christianity is the idea that Christians are motivated by a system of rewards and punishments.

But that simply isn't true. In fact, it's OPPOSITE from the truth.
That only applies to FALSE "Christianity."

Now, granted, most professing, so-called "Christians" are motivated by such a system.
But that has NOTHING to DO with BIBLICAL Christianity!

All throughout the New Testament, it says that salvation is ALL of God's GRACE (unmerited favor).
And the New Testament declares that THAT was ALWAYS the CASE!
All the prophets and saints of old understood that.

Here are just a few examples from the Scriptures:

Romans 3:20-24
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Romans 1:1-5
"Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God-- the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith."

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 11:6
"And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."Acts 15:11
"No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."



Now....

You might say, "OK, if that's so, then why do Christians warn people about Hell?
Aren't they promoting a system of belief based on fear of punishment?"

Well, JUST BECAUSE Christians WARN UNBELIEVERS about HELL,
that doesn't mean that CHRISTIANS fear Hell!

A true Christian is one who believes Christ saved him from going to Hell.
So it's the UNBELIEVER who needs the warning, NOT the CHRISTIAN!

"And what about HEAVEN? Why do Christians make such a big deal out of Heaven?"
--Because Heaven is where we'll be with the SAVIOR forever!

Yes, he's our reward, but we didn't EARN that reward. Again, he's given to us by GRACE!

Now, again, my point is that even though multitudes of professing, so-called "Christians" are motivated by reward and punishment,
those who have actually understood what salvation really is, know that their works having no bearing on their standing with God.
They know that their righteousness before God is the righteousness of Christ, imputed to them by faith.
And they dare not add to, or subtract from, the finished work of Christ, or try to earn God's favor by works.

So this criticism against Christianity is not against true Christianity, but only against the apostate, false "Christianity."

So, don't confuse Biblical Christianity with FALSE "Christianity."
True Christians are motivated by GRACE.
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