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The wrath of God

Truth_seeker
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7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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7/11/2014 9:33:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:31:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If God hates anything, then he is not all loving by definition.
Nice to see someone get it. Thank you. (don't worry I know this won't make us friends) LOL.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/11/2014 9:35:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:31:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If God hates anything, then he is not all loving by definition.

All loving in the sense that he loves everyone and creation
jh1234l
Posts: 580
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7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.
My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82
1 square right of Nelson Mandela, 2 squares down from Francois Hollande
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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7/11/2014 9:39:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:35:44 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:31:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If God hates anything, then he is not all loving by definition.

All loving in the sense that he loves everyone and creation
Wrong wriggle.

God IS LOVE.

Now try again. Nah don't bother there is no answer other than your book is just crap.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
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7/11/2014 9:45:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
God's wrath abides on those who choose to renounce or deny Him.
It's not God's fault people choose to not obey Him.

God hates not just sin but the sinner in His Holy righteous hate. Not as we humans perceive hate to be. His wrath an anger in never done in maliciousness but in Holiness. Something we as all human lack within ourselves (holiness) because of sin.

If it wasn't for Christ's death burial and ressurection there'd be no love from God at all.
So God must be Love in all after all or we'd all be done for hell (which is God's wrth in the fullest).
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
jh1234l
Posts: 580
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7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".
My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82
1 square right of Nelson Mandela, 2 squares down from Francois Hollande
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/11/2014 9:49:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

And why do I care what the verse says?
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/11/2014 9:53:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:35:44 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:31:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If God hates anything, then he is not all loving by definition.

All loving in the sense that he loves everyone and creation

Special Pleading. All loving by definition means to love everything without any exceptions, because if there are exceptions, then we cannot use the word "all". God is only "somewhat" loving if he doesn't love sin.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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7/11/2014 9:53:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:50:22 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

Because love can hate too. Duh.

Is that something like newt's chicken soup? Nah I don't get it either.

As you were.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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7/11/2014 9:55:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:45:58 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
God's wrath abides on those who choose to renounce or deny Him.
It's not God's fault people choose to not obey Him.

God hates not just sin but the sinner in His Holy righteous hate. Not as we humans perceive hate to be. His wrath an anger in never done in maliciousness but in Holiness. Something we as all human lack within ourselves (holiness) because of sin.

If it wasn't for Christ's death burial and ressurection there'd be no love from God at all.
So God must be Love in all after all or we'd all be done for hell (which is God's wrth in the fullest).

Well you can scratch that from the book and add.

GOD IS NOT LOVE.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/11/2014 9:55:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

Apart of God's Love is letting us have free-will or are you saying that he should force us to love him?
jh1234l
Posts: 580
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7/11/2014 9:55:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)

Again, you missed my point.

"But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment."
My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82
1 square right of Nelson Mandela, 2 squares down from Francois Hollande
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
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7/11/2014 9:56:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:55:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:45:58 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
God's wrath abides on those who choose to renounce or deny Him.
It's not God's fault people choose to not obey Him.

God hates not just sin but the sinner in His Holy righteous hate. Not as we humans perceive hate to be. His wrath an anger in never done in maliciousness but in Holiness. Something we as all human lack within ourselves (holiness) because of sin.

If it wasn't for Christ's death burial and ressurection there'd be no love from God at all.
So God must be Love in all after all or we'd all be done for hell (which is God's wrth in the fullest).

Well you can scratch that from the book and add.

GOD IS NOT LOVE.

And whys that?
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
jh1234l
Posts: 580
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7/11/2014 9:57:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:55:49 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

Apart of God's Love is letting us have free-will or are you saying that he should force us to love him?

I never said anything about free will in my argument.
My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82
1 square right of Nelson Mandela, 2 squares down from Francois Hollande
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/11/2014 9:57:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:55:57 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)

Again, you missed my point.

"But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment."

We all know what your gonna do once you get out of hell: sin, that's what humans do naturally.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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7/11/2014 10:05:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:57:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:55:57 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)

Again, you missed my point.

"But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment."

We all know what your gonna do once you get out of hell: sin, that's what humans do naturally.

So you will no longer be human in heaven? What will you be? Will you be you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/11/2014 10:05:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 10:05:03 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:57:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:55:57 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)

Again, you missed my point.

"But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment."

We all know what your gonna do once you get out of hell: sin, that's what humans do naturally.

So you will no longer be human in heaven? What will you be? Will you be you?

I will be transformed in Christ =)
jh1234l
Posts: 580
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7/11/2014 10:08:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:57:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:55:57 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)

Again, you missed my point.

"But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment."

We all know what your gonna do once you get out of hell: sin, that's what humans do naturally.

But you said that sins can be redeemed by accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour. Therefore, as Hell was directed towards sins and not sinners, it logically follows that Hell should be temporary if God were to actually love sinners and not sin. However, Hell is eternal. None of your arguments so far were relevant to my points. Please provide an argument on why Hell can still be eternal when God loves sinners and hates the sin.
My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82
1 square right of Nelson Mandela, 2 squares down from Francois Hollande
jh1234l
Posts: 580
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7/11/2014 10:10:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 10:05:57 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 10:05:03 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:57:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:55:57 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)

Again, you missed my point.

"But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment."

We all know what your gonna do once you get out of hell: sin, that's what humans do naturally.

So you will no longer be human in heaven? What will you be? Will you be you?

I will be transformed in Christ =)

H to the U, to the B, to the R, to the I, to the S. Why will God allow people to commit Hubris just by faith-based salvation?
My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82
1 square right of Nelson Mandela, 2 squares down from Francois Hollande
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/11/2014 10:13:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 10:08:58 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:57:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:55:57 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)

Again, you missed my point.

"But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment."

We all know what your gonna do once you get out of hell: sin, that's what humans do naturally.

But you said that sins can be redeemed by accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour. Therefore, as Hell was directed towards sins and not sinners, it logically follows that Hell should be temporary if God were to actually love sinners and not sin. However, Hell is eternal. None of your arguments so far were relevant to my points. Please provide an argument on why Hell can still be eternal when God loves sinners and hates the sin.

Part of loving someone is punishing them. To let them live eternally in sin at peace would be evil.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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7/11/2014 10:26:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 10:13:39 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 10:08:58 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:57:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:55:57 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:52:02 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:47:38 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:37:50 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:35:54 PM, jh1234l wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:29:27 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

God hates sin, but loves the sinner, there's a difference

But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment.

In that case, are you saying that we should let prisoners free? Just let all the evil people who did wrong free because that's the good thing to do right?

The legal system and God are different. The legal system is neutral, while God loves the sinner and hates the sin, as you said. Therefore, once the sin was punished for and rehabilitated/repented, the person should be free, as the person him/herself is not the issue. However, as the implication of "only hates the sin" (temporary hell) is untrue(hell is actually permanent and eternal), it can't follow that God only hates the sin.

You are missing the point here, I never said anything about letting prisoners or unrepented sinners loose. Here is what I did say:

Premise 1: If God loves the sinner and hates the sin, Hell should be temporary as a final chance for the sinner to redeem themselves, (as the sin is the target here, and not the sinner.)

Premise 2: Hell is eternal.

Conclusion: The argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner" is untrue.

Again, I never said anything about letting prisoners loose, or etcetera. I am just trying to refute your argument that "God hates sin, but loves the sinner".

There's a way to get out of this hell, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ himself and receive eternal life =)

Again, you missed my point.

"But if that's true, then there should be a way to get out of Hell when already in Hell (as sins can be repented, and the sinner is not the one that God dislikes, therefore logically it follows that Hell is a temporary punishent) , which is not true as it is a permanent/eternal punishment."

We all know what your gonna do once you get out of hell: sin, that's what humans do naturally.

But you said that sins can be redeemed by accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour. Therefore, as Hell was directed towards sins and not sinners, it logically follows that Hell should be temporary if God were to actually love sinners and not sin. However, Hell is eternal. None of your arguments so far were relevant to my points. Please provide an argument on why Hell can still be eternal when God loves sinners and hates the sin.

Part of loving someone is punishing them. To let them live eternally in sin at peace would be evil.

Doesn't that hurt?

You know when you twist yourself inside out in a forlorn attempt at making the ridiculousness of your beliefs somehow rational to yourself?

Cos it doesn't work on anyone else.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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7/11/2014 10:27:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:56:58 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:55:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:45:58 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
God's wrath abides on those who choose to renounce or deny Him.
It's not God's fault people choose to not obey Him.

God hates not just sin but the sinner in His Holy righteous hate. Not as we humans perceive hate to be. His wrath an anger in never done in maliciousness but in Holiness. Something we as all human lack within ourselves (holiness) because of sin.

If it wasn't for Christ's death burial and ressurection there'd be no love from God at all.
So God must be Love in all after all or we'd all be done for hell (which is God's wrth in the fullest).

Well you can scratch that from the book and add.

GOD IS NOT LOVE.

And whys that?

Read post #10
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
mishapqueen
Posts: 3,995
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7/11/2014 10:34:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 9:28:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/11/2014 9:27:13 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Human anger can rise out of impulse, but the anger of God rises out of a hatred of sin.

Rom. 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

This verse implies that by faith in the son of God, the wrath of God is removed and we are forgiven by grace.

I get it.

God hates what he has created.

BTW if god IS love how is there room for hate?

If my dad loves me, he would hate anyone who tried to hurt me. Love always has a hate side to it. You can never have one without the other. God doesn't hate man, he hates sin. Man disobeyed and the sin must be paid for.
You cannot choose whether or not you will live by rules, but you can choose which rules you will live by. --Me

"I was wrong. Squirrels are objectively superior to bunnies in every conceivable dimension."
--Joey

"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver" --PetersSmith

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