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Is God real?

surrendersacrifice
Posts: 11
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7/12/2014 2:35:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Although many of us believe in the presence of God and know that he loves us, he is not real to us; because He is invisible. God is invisible because he is not matter, but a spirit. Spirit, like a force is invisible; yet they both exert influence on material objects. Spirit, however, is more than just a force; because spirit has life. It is therefore dynamic and creative. The ultimate Spirit is God. The life of God's Spirit is love and it is the force of love in the universe. God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart. This enables us to unconditionally love others and show his presence to others through our expression of love. Such expressions of love include: soldiers carrying enemy combatants on their shoulder for medical care; people staying faithful to their marriage vows although their spouses have hurt and betrayed them; people going out of their way and even putting their life on the line to help those who have hurt them; people giving away everything, including their own desires, and travelling to countries that are devoid of basic sanitation and comfort, in order to bring the good news about God"s love to others. We can also experience the presence of God when we ponder on infinite sacrifice God made for us on the cross; and reenter it at the Lord"s Supper.
Love is the spirit of surrender, sacrifice, service
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/12/2014 3:39:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 2:35:06 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
Although many of us believe in the presence of God and know that he loves us, he is not real to us; because He is invisible. God is invisible because he is not matter, but a spirit. Spirit, like a force is invisible; yet they both exert influence on material objects. Spirit, however, is more than just a force; because spirit has life. It is therefore dynamic and creative. The ultimate Spirit is God. The life of God's Spirit is love and it is the force of love in the universe. God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart. This enables us to unconditionally love others and show his presence to others through our expression of love. Such expressions of love include: soldiers carrying enemy combatants on their shoulder for medical care; people staying faithful to their marriage vows although their spouses have hurt and betrayed them; people going out of their way and even putting their life on the line to help those who have hurt them; people giving away everything, including their own desires, and travelling to countries that are devoid of basic sanitation and comfort, in order to bring the good news about God"s love to others. We can also experience the presence of God when we ponder on infinite sacrifice God made for us on the cross; and reenter it at the Lord"s Supper.

This OP illustrates one of the most common misconceptions to emerge from theists - the false equivalency between invisibility, and a complete lack of objective evidence. You state that God isn't real to us because he is invisible. Wind is invisible, as are UV light rays, radio waves, microwaves, neutrinos and gases in the atmosphere. But - unlike God - they are in no way devoid of objective evidence. Being devoid of objective evidence places God in a completely different category than things which are simply invisible. It categorizes God (logically), with unicorns, fairies (magic & wings, not effeminance and fashion sense), mermaids, gremlins and Leprechauns. And while theists immediately take offense to such associations, loudly proclaiming that to be an insult, it's an absolutely logical association. So before anyone (anna, Mhykiel, Neutron), responds in outrage, stop... take a breath... understand that I'm grouping things together for which there is no objective evidence and like it or not, until theists can provide objective evidence for God, the classification is logical, accurate and appropriate.

You say that, "God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart.".
This is simply another way of saying that you become emotional when you think about God. This is nothing new or different to modern religions. People were driven to absolute heights of emotional reaction by the pagan gods as well - gods you believe do not exist. People can be driven to absolute emotional lunacy by anything they devoutly believe, regardless of whether or not it actually exists. A substantial percentage of psychological disturbances originally manifest as an emotionally fervent belief in things the rest of us do not believe exist. So just try to be aware that references to the figurative "heart" are just appeals to emotion. The heart is actually a hollow muscle which pushes blood through the circulatory system when it contracts. It has as much to do with our emotions or our thoughts as our quads, glutes or biceps.

References to "God's spirit" is kind of a double-whammy to theist reasoning.
There is no objective evidence for God, and there is no objective evidence for spirits. And if God were to exist, since he's not physical and we would be talking about a disembodied mind which somehow interacts with the physical without leaving physical evidence (which means the physical is unchanged and therefore, unaffected), you're already talking about the mythical "spirit". It's simply a methodology theists have developed for describing that which doesn't exist, with other things which don't exist.

Take one long moment in silence and focused thought...

... why would God be any less obvious than a tree, the sun, a mountain, or the Earth upon which we live... IF he actually existed? Why would he hide from our senses?

The answer is simple; for the same reason all of the previous gods (which you don't believe existed), hid from our physical senses. From the standpoint of evidence, your God is EXACTLY like all of the gods you insist never existed.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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7/12/2014 4:05:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yes she is.
A bloody great rottweiler that owns my backyard.
If you don't believe me try to come into my backyard.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/12/2014 4:07:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 4:05:04 PM, bulproof wrote:
Yes she is.
A bloody great rottweiler that owns my backyard.
If you don't believe me try to come into my backyard.

It's fcking weird u say that dude, because I have a motherf*cker of a dog in my backyard and these gypsies tried to come into it today. Is this a message from god? (Srs, that sh1t actually happened)
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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7/12/2014 4:07:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 4:05:04 PM, bulproof wrote:
Yes she is.
A bloody great rottweiler that owns my backyard.
If you don't believe me try to come into my backyard.

Please join the DDO Troll Nation. I don't have any members yet, even though there are trolls all over this Forum.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/12/2014 4:10:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I feel as though I was drawn to this thread by what bulproof was to post in it, to say yes god is real.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/12/2014 4:33:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 4:10:01 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I feel as though I was drawn to this thread by what bulproof was to post in it, to say yes god is real.

Perhaps the Devil made you do it?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/12/2014 4:35:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 4:33:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/12/2014 4:10:01 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I feel as though I was drawn to this thread by what bulproof was to post in it, to say yes god is real.

Perhaps the Devil made you do it?

Yeah, I briefly considered that too. If it's the devil though, it's proof of my own divinity so fck him.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/12/2014 8:20:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 3:39:31 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/12/2014 2:35:06 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
Although many of us believe in the presence of God and know that he loves us, he is not real to us; because He is invisible. God is invisible because he is not matter, but a spirit. Spirit, like a force is invisible; yet they both exert influence on material objects. Spirit, however, is more than just a force; because spirit has life. It is therefore dynamic and creative. The ultimate Spirit is God. The life of God's Spirit is love and it is the force of love in the universe. God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart. This enables us to unconditionally love others and show his presence to others through our expression of love. Such expressions of love include: soldiers carrying enemy combatants on their shoulder for medical care; people staying faithful to their marriage vows although their spouses have hurt and betrayed them; people going out of their way and even putting their life on the line to help those who have hurt them; people giving away everything, including their own desires, and travelling to countries that are devoid of basic sanitation and comfort, in order to bring the good news about God"s love to others. We can also experience the presence of God when we ponder on infinite sacrifice God made for us on the cross; and reenter it at the Lord"s Supper.

This OP illustrates one of the most common misconceptions to emerge from theists - the false equivalency between invisibility, and a complete lack of objective evidence. You state that God isn't real to us because he is invisible. Wind is invisible, as are UV light rays, radio waves, microwaves, neutrinos and gases in the atmosphere. But - unlike God - they are in no way devoid of objective evidence. Being devoid of objective evidence places God in a completely different category than things which are simply invisible. It categorizes God (logically), with unicorns, fairies (magic & wings, not effeminance and fashion sense), mermaids, gremlins and Leprechauns. And while theists immediately take offense to such associations, loudly proclaiming that to be an insult, it's an absolutely logical association. So before anyone (anna, Mhykiel, Neutron), responds in outrage, stop... take a breath... understand that I'm grouping things together for which there is no objective evidence and like it or not, until theists can provide objective evidence for God, the classification is logical, accurate and appropriate.


I saw you say categorize, and was not immediately in an uproar. I disagree with your categorization.

You say that, "God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart.".
This is simply another way of saying that you become emotional when you think about God. This is nothing new or different to modern religions. People were driven to absolute heights of emotional reaction by the pagan gods as well - gods you believe do not exist. People can be driven to absolute emotional lunacy by anything they devoutly believe, regardless of whether or not it actually exists. A substantial percentage of psychological disturbances originally manifest as an emotionally fervent belief in things the rest of us do not believe exist.

Fine line between genius and crazy argument. Atheist tend to see themselves as intelligent, if they truly are smart people they are prone to reject conventions and advocate things the rest of the people do not support.

So just try to be aware that references to the figurative "heart" are just appeals to emotion. The heart is actually a hollow muscle which pushes blood through the circulatory system when it contracts. It has as much to do with our emotions or our thoughts as our quads, glutes or biceps.

References to "God's spirit" is kind of a double-whammy to theist reasoning.
There is no objective evidence for God, and there is no objective evidence for spirits. And if God were to exist, since he's not physical and we would be talking about a disembodied mind which somehow interacts with the physical without leaving physical evidence (which means the physical is unchanged and therefore, unaffected), you're already talking about the mythical "spirit". It's simply a methodology theists have developed for describing that which doesn't exist, with other things which don't exist.


Agreed, God is made out of Dark Energy. not spirit.

Take one long moment in silence and focused thought...

... why would God be any less obvious than a tree, the sun, a mountain, or the Earth upon which we live... IF he actually existed? Why would he hide from our senses?


Who says he is hiding? Why is God different from the wind?

The answer is simple; for the same reason all of the previous gods (which you don't believe existed), hid from our physical senses. From the standpoint of evidence, your God is EXACTLY like all of the gods you insist never existed.

I agree, a rose by any other name. So if the gods I reject were all-present, intelligent, will full and made out of dark energy than I would say it is the same God. I will now take a sheet from the Atheist handbook: My God is made out of Dark Energy. In no copy of any ancient manuscript of any religion, none ever say God is made of Dark Energy. So they are not the real God we know exists.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/12/2014 11:05:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 8:20:03 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/12/2014 3:39:31 PM, Beastt wrote:

I saw you say categorize, and was not immediately in an uproar. I disagree with your categorization.
Yet have no credible cause to object. Please explain why you disagree with placing all things for which there is no objective evidence, together.

You say that, "God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart.".
This is simply another way of saying that you become emotional when you think about God. This is nothing new or different to modern religions. People were driven to absolute heights of emotional reaction by the pagan gods as well - gods you believe do not exist. People can be driven to absolute emotional lunacy by anything they devoutly believe, regardless of whether or not it actually exists. A substantial percentage of psychological disturbances originally manifest as an emotionally fervent belief in things the rest of us do not believe exist.

Fine line between genius and crazy argument. Atheist tend to see themselves as intelligent, if they truly are smart people they are prone to reject conventions and advocate things the rest of the people do not support.
I have an idea, instead of demonstrating your ignorance by suggesting that you're completely unaware that multiple objective studies have concluded that less intelligent people tend to be more religious, and less religious people tend to be more intelligent; suppose you actually take a moment to address the point I made? People are no more prone to their "spiritual" level of emotional connection with their gods when looking to gods you believe don't exist, than you are with the God you believe does exist. It's a valid point. You can run or evade, but that only illustrates your intellectual dishonesty.

So just try to be aware that references to the figurative "heart" are just appeals to emotion. The heart is actually a hollow muscle which pushes blood through the circulatory system when it contracts. It has as much to do with our emotions or our thoughts as our quads, glutes or biceps.

References to "God's spirit" is kind of a double-whammy to theist reasoning.
There is no objective evidence for God, and there is no objective evidence for spirits. And if God were to exist, since he's not physical and we would be talking about a disembodied mind which somehow interacts with the physical without leaving physical evidence (which means the physical is unchanged and therefore, unaffected), you're already talking about the mythical "spirit". It's simply a methodology theists have developed for describing that which doesn't exist, with other things which don't exist.


Agreed, God is made out of Dark Energy. not spirit.
Energy is physical. So apparently, you don't believe in the Christian God who is metaphysical.

Take one long moment in silence and focused thought...

... why would God be any less obvious than a tree, the sun, a mountain, or the Earth upon which we live... IF he actually existed? Why would he hide from our senses?


Who says he is hiding? Why is God different from the wind?
Queue laughter:
Are you friggin' serious? Let's see... we can feel the wind, we can directly see the things the wind does, we can objectivey measure the wind, harness the wind, track the wind and objectively verify that the wind exists. We can do NONE of those things with God.

The answer is simple; for the same reason all of the previous gods (which you don't believe existed), hid from our physical senses. From the standpoint of evidence, your God is EXACTLY like all of the gods you insist never existed.

I agree, a rose by any other name. So if the gods I reject were all-present, intelligent, will full and made out of dark energy than I would say it is the same God.
But they're not the same god. Do you believe in Zeus, Thor, Attis, Mithra, Horus, Aphrodite, etc? In fact, you're the one who keeps claiming that Zeus and the other gods of Mount Olympus have been falsified because they weren't found on Mount Olympus.

This only continues to illustrate the standard theists lack of interest in the truth. You're just tossing out tripe because you know that thoughtful, rational answers will force you into a position of admitting that the atheist viewpoint is far more logical than ANY theists world view.

I will now take a sheet from the Atheist handbook: My God is made out of Dark Energy. In no copy of any ancient manuscript of any religion, none ever say God is made of Dark Energy. So they are not the real God we know exists.
I don't know where you get this "God is Dark Energy" garbage, but dark energy (if it exists), is just dark energy. And nothing about anything you said is in anyway consistent with what atheists tend to believe. So until you start to understand the majority atheist views, it's best that you not try to emulate them. You already appear stupid enough. Don't make it worse by showing that after all of this debate, you're still completely clueless about what we do and don't believe.

Now... suppose you rub that tiny brain of yours and attempt to address the actual point being made; From the standpoint of evidence, your God is EXACTLY like all of the gods you insist never existed.

Since your answer to all of these other gods, as well as fairies, gremlins, unicorns, Leprechausn and mermaids is that they don't exist, how do you explain the fact that your God is of EXACTLY the same evidentiary quality (ZERO)?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/13/2014 1:59:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 11:05:48 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/12/2014 8:20:03 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/12/2014 3:39:31 PM, Beastt wrote:

I saw you say categorize, and was not immediately in an uproar. I disagree with your categorization.
Yet have no credible cause to object. Please explain why you disagree with placing all things for which there is no objective evidence, together.

You say that, "God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart.".
This is simply another way of saying that you become emotional when you think about God. This is nothing new or different to modern religions. People were driven to absolute heights of emotional reaction by the pagan gods as well - gods you believe do not exist. People can be driven to absolute emotional lunacy by anything they devoutly believe, regardless of whether or not it actually exists. A substantial percentage of psychological disturbances originally manifest as an emotionally fervent belief in things the rest of us do not believe exist.

Fine line between genius and crazy argument. Atheist tend to see themselves as intelligent, if they truly are smart people they are prone to reject conventions and advocate things the rest of the people do not support.
I have an idea, instead of demonstrating your ignorance by suggesting that you're completely unaware that multiple objective studies have concluded that less intelligent people tend to be more religious, and less religious people tend to be more intelligent; suppose you actually take a moment to address the point I made? People are no more prone to their "spiritual" level of emotional connection with their gods when looking to gods you believe don't exist, than you are with the God you believe does exist. It's a valid point. You can run or evade, but that only illustrates your intellectual dishonesty.

So just try to be aware that references to the figurative "heart" are just appeals to emotion. The heart is actually a hollow muscle which pushes blood through the circulatory system when it contracts. It has as much to do with our emotions or our thoughts as our quads, glutes or biceps.

References to "God's spirit" is kind of a double-whammy to theist reasoning.
There is no objective evidence for God, and there is no objective evidence for spirits. And if God were to exist, since he's not physical and we would be talking about a disembodied mind which somehow interacts with the physical without leaving physical evidence (which means the physical is unchanged and therefore, unaffected), you're already talking about the mythical "spirit". It's simply a methodology theists have developed for describing that which doesn't exist, with other things which don't exist.


Agreed, God is made out of Dark Energy. not spirit.
Energy is physical. So apparently, you don't believe in the Christian God who is metaphysical.

Take one long moment in silence and focused thought...

... why would God be any less obvious than a tree, the sun, a mountain, or the Earth upon which we live... IF he actually existed? Why would he hide from our senses?


Who says he is hiding? Why is God different from the wind?
Queue laughter:
Are you friggin' serious? Let's see... we can feel the wind, we can directly see the things the wind does, we can objectivey measure the wind, harness the wind, track the wind and objectively verify that the wind exists. We can do NONE of those things with God.

The answer is simple; for the same reason all of the previous gods (which you don't believe existed), hid from our physical senses. From the standpoint of evidence, your God is EXACTLY like all of the gods you insist never existed.

I agree, a rose by any other name. So if the gods I reject were all-present, intelligent, will full and made out of dark energy than I would say it is the same God.
But they're not the same god. Do you believe in Zeus, Thor, Attis, Mithra, Horus, Aphrodite, etc? In fact, you're the one who keeps claiming that Zeus and the other gods of Mount Olympus have been falsified because they weren't found on Mount Olympus.

This only continues to illustrate the standard theists lack of interest in the truth. You're just tossing out tripe because you know that thoughtful, rational answers will force you into a position of admitting that the atheist viewpoint is far more logical than ANY theists world view.

I will now take a sheet from the Atheist handbook: My God is made out of Dark Energy. In no copy of any ancient manuscript of any religion, none ever say God is made of Dark Energy. So they are not the real God we know exists.
I don't know where you get this "God is Dark Energy" garbage, but dark energy (if it exists), is just dark energy. And nothing about anything you said is in anyway consistent with what atheists tend to believe. So until you start to understand the majority atheist views, it's best that you not try to emulate them. You already appear stupid enough. Don't make it worse by showing that after all of this debate, you're still completely clueless about what we do and don't believe.

Now... suppose you rub that tiny brain of yours and attempt to address the actual point being made; From the standpoint of evidence, your God is EXACTLY like all of the gods you insist never existed.

Since your answer to all of these other gods, as well as fairies, gremlins, unicorns, Leprechausn and mermaids is that they don't exist, how do you explain the fact that your God is of EXACTLY the same evidentiary quality (ZERO)?

Exactly, I reject that the evidence for God is Zero. I claim God is like the wind that God's physical interactions with this world are discernible and seen, like the wind.

Hey hey Atheist, Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat!

As far as me being stupid. This goes without saying: My IQ is 136, I retired at 32, I own my house and truck (paying on another truck), I have a good job, I am content and satisfied in my endeavors, I'm almost finished with a Bachelors in Computer Science, I am accomplished and successful. By every measure but your opinion I am intelligent and wise.

Why is that? Because all my blessings are from God and he does with me what he wills to be done with me. I have suffered great pain unknown by most people and survived things that have killed other others. You can say what you want, but at the end of the day the history is:

You have no fukin clue what you are talking about.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/13/2014 2:14:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 2:35:06 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
Although many of us believe in the presence of God and know that he loves us, he is not real to us; because He is invisible. God is invisible because he is not matter, but a spirit. Spirit, like a force is invisible; yet they both exert influence on material objects. Spirit, however, is more than just a force; because spirit has life. It is therefore dynamic and creative. The ultimate Spirit is God. The life of God's Spirit is love and it is the force of love in the universe. God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart. This enables us to unconditionally love others and show his presence to others through our expression of love. Such expressions of love include: soldiers carrying enemy combatants on their shoulder for medical care; people staying faithful to their marriage vows although their spouses have hurt and betrayed them; people going out of their way and even putting their life on the line to help those who have hurt them; people giving away everything, including their own desires, and travelling to countries that are devoid of basic sanitation and comfort, in order to bring the good news about God"s love to others. We can also experience the presence of God when we ponder on infinite sacrifice God made for us on the cross; and reenter it at the Lord"s Supper.

Spirit means invisible vibrations that have to be processed to form illusions for us to experience living in a defined world. So our flesh are only illusions that aren't real but we perceive them as being real. The flesh gives us the sense of being something other than being invisible information.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/13/2014 2:25:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 2:14:53 AM, bornofgod wrote:
So our flesh are only illusions that aren't real but we perceive them as being real.
So no doubt you never visit a doctor nor hospital when your flesh is burned, damaged, infected or cut etc. because it's not real! LMAO@brad!

Also, how is it that you went and likely still go begging for handouts from Pastor Tracy & others for organic food to fill your allegedly ' non-existent / non-real ' body of flesh?

You remain as always a psychotic idiot, liar and all round delusional defeated fool!

Your vindicated Mentor & Saviour benevolent moi!
PureX
Posts: 1,515
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7/13/2014 5:38:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
God is as real as beauty, honor, justice, and love are real. The idea that something must be "objective" to be real is nonsense. That idea is itself non-objective.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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7/13/2014 8:34:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 4:33:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/12/2014 4:10:01 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I feel as though I was drawn to this thread by what bulproof was to post in it, to say yes god is real.

Perhaps the Devil made you do it?

I did not! Furthermore, I resent the accusation.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/13/2014 11:21:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 2:25:22 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:14:53 AM, bornofgod wrote:
So our flesh are only illusions that aren't real but we perceive them as being real.
So no doubt you never visit a doctor nor hospital when your flesh is burned, damaged, infected or cut etc. because it's not real! LMAO@brad!

Also, how is it that you went and likely still go begging for handouts from Pastor Tracy & others for organic food to fill your allegedly ' non-existent / non-real ' body of flesh?

You remain as always a psychotic idiot, liar and all round delusional defeated fool!

Your vindicated Mentor & Saviour benevolent moi!

Unbelievers like you will die and wake up in a new world without ever realizing who you really are.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/13/2014 2:41:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 5:38:45 AM, PureX wrote:
God is as real as beauty, honor, justice, and love are real. The idea that something must be "objective" to be real is nonsense. That idea is itself non-objective.

Love is an emotion and emotions are cognitive responses to chemicals. As such, love can be tracked, monitor, demonstrated, induced, and chemically inhibited. Beauty is a subjective assessment, not an actual entity. Honor is a quality assigned subjectively to character traits, and "justice" is the word assigned to revenge taken with the approval of the controlling powers over a society.

God, however, demonstrates no difference from that accepted to be purely imaginary. The only difference is the number of people willing to admit that the concept is imaginary.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
PureX
Posts: 1,515
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7/13/2014 4:05:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 2:41:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/13/2014 5:38:45 AM, PureX wrote:
God is as real as beauty, honor, justice, and love are real. The idea that something must be "objective" to be real is nonsense. That idea is itself non-objective.

Love is an emotion and emotions are cognitive responses to chemicals.

No, they are not. Emotions are chemical responses to perceived ideas in the mind: threats, desires, etc.,.

As such, love can be tracked, monitor, demonstrated, induced, and chemically inhibited.

So can any other ideological phenomena, including "God".

Beauty is a subjective assessment, not an actual entity.

So is love, honor, justice, and God. And in fact, so the idea of an "actual entity".

God, however, demonstrates no difference from that accepted to be purely imaginary. The only difference is the number of people willing to admit that the concept is imaginary.

I can see that you will choose to remain ignorant of the reality of human cognition.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/14/2014 3:41:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 11:21:10 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:25:22 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:14:53 AM, bornofgod wrote:
So our flesh are only illusions that aren't real but we perceive them as being real.
So no doubt you never visit a doctor nor hospital when your flesh is burned, damaged, infected or cut etc. because it's not real! LMAO@brad!

Also, how is it that you went and likely still go begging for handouts from Pastor Tracy & others for organic food to fill your allegedly ' non-existent / non-real ' body of flesh?

You remain as always a psychotic idiot, liar and all round delusional defeated fool!

Your vindicated Mentor & Saviour benevolent moi!

Unbelievers like you will die and wake up in a new world without ever realizing who you really are.
You again prove yourself to be a psychotic fool in that you don't even believe your own claim by seeking medical treatment for your flesh you don't even believe is an illusion but real & literal and in need of medical attention when damaged etc.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/14/2014 4:08:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 4:05:40 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:41:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/13/2014 5:38:45 AM, PureX wrote:
God is as real as beauty, honor, justice, and love are real. The idea that something must be "objective" to be real is nonsense. That idea is itself non-objective.

Love is an emotion and emotions are cognitive responses to chemicals.

No, they are not. Emotions are chemical responses to perceived ideas in the mind: threats, desires, etc.,.
You've demonstrated your failure to understand the interaction. Emotions (such as love), can be chemically induced, (such as the chemical in chocolate which provides a faint response similar to love). If your claim were true, we wouldn't be able to induce or inhibit emotional responses chemically.

As such, love can be tracked, monitor, demonstrated, induced, and chemically inhibited.

So can any other ideological phenomena, including "God".
There is no physiological brain response exclusive to God. You're only referencing a combination of other responses linked to many forms of emotional pacification, which is why people persist in such beliefs devoid of all rational value.

Beauty is a subjective assessment, not an actual entity.

So is love, honor, justice, and God. And in fact, so the idea of an "actual entity".
No, actual entities are objectively demonstrable. God is not. Beauty is not.

God, however, demonstrates no difference from that accepted to be purely imaginary. The only difference is the number of people willing to admit that the concept is imaginary.

I can see that you will choose to remain ignorant of the reality of human cognition.
I'm less than concerned about the assessment of my intellect, presented by someone who clearly doesn't know the difference between objective and subjective, and in a physically adult state, continues to believe in magical sky fairies.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/14/2014 4:49:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 2:35:06 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
Although many of us believe in the presence of God and know that he loves us, he is not real to us; because He is invisible. God is invisible because he is not matter, but a spirit. Spirit, like a force is invisible; yet they both exert influence on material objects. Spirit, however, is more than just a force; because spirit has life. It is therefore dynamic and creative. The ultimate Spirit is God. The life of God's Spirit is love and it is the force of love in the universe. God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart. This enables us to unconditionally love others and show his presence to others through our expression of love. Such expressions of love include: soldiers carrying enemy combatants on their shoulder for medical care; people staying faithful to their marriage vows although their spouses have hurt and betrayed them; people going out of their way and even putting their life on the line to help those who have hurt them; people giving away everything, including their own desires, and travelling to countries that are devoid of basic sanitation and comfort, in order to bring the good news about God"s love to others. We can also experience the presence of God when we ponder on infinite sacrifice God made for us on the cross; and reenter it at the Lord"s Supper.

No.
PureX
Posts: 1,515
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7/14/2014 6:03:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 4:08:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/13/2014 4:05:40 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:41:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/13/2014 5:38:45 AM, PureX wrote:
God is as real as beauty, honor, justice, and love are real. The idea that something must be "objective" to be real is nonsense. That idea is itself non-objective.

Love is an emotion and emotions are cognitive responses to chemicals.

No, they are not. Emotions are chemical responses to perceived ideas in the mind: threats, desires, etc.,.
You've demonstrated your failure to understand the interaction. Emotions (such as love), can be chemically induced, (such as the chemical in chocolate which provides a faint response similar to love). If your claim were true, we wouldn't be able to induce or inhibit emotional responses chemically.

A "faint response similar to love" is absurdly vague, and we can chemically induce and distort all sorts of emotions. People have been doing it for centuries, and very often as part of religious ritual. The chemistry is the biological component of emotion. The character of the emotion, however, is determined by the ideas attached to them. Love is not the same emotion as anger, or beauty, or lust, or righteousness, or awe, etc., because these are not just chemical responses. They are ideological responses to the world around us. They are ways that we perceive our relationship with external reality.

As is "God".

There is no physiological brain response exclusive to God. You're only referencing a combination of other responses linked to many forms of emotional pacification, which is why people persist in such beliefs devoid of all rational value.

The term "physiological" indicates that these responses are the result of intellectual perceptions/conceptions. And the intellect is not "exclusive". The idea of God is complex, just as is the idea of lust, or love, or beauty, or any other is complex. There is no specific chemical component to "love", as you seem to be trying to imply, just as there is no specific chemical component to any other physiological response.

No, actual entities are objectively demonstrable. God is not. Beauty is not.

An "actual entity" is a complex idea. Just as is the idea of God, or of love, or of justice. They all "exist" as concepts of reality. They are all intellectual responses to our relationship with the world around us, that then make up our conception of "reality". To claim someone else else's concept of reality isn't "real" is just silly hubris. As their concept of reality is as "real" as yours, or anyone else's.

To claim it's not materially based may be justified, but then neither is the concept of reality, itself. It's experientially based.