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Jay Smith and his new stupid claims

tahir.imanov
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7/12/2014 7:58:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is an article published by jay smith on web site debate.org.uk ( http://www.debate.org.uk... ) which talks about contradictions in Quran.

1 - First part is says Quran is wrong because some places it contradicts Bible (check the link above). If you are not yet realized that it is a fallacious argument, you need a psychiatrist. So first part consist of four fallacies.

2 - Second part is about Quran contradicting itself.
A - Mary and Imran : It is not a contradiction, if you don't believe me ask Semitic speaking people (Ask to Jews, or Syrians - Syriac speaking people, or Non-Muslim Arabs). 5th fallacy
B - Haman : Again he assumes haman of Bible is true, it is a second most stupid fallacy, because archeology and Egyptology say to us that Haman was a title (name) of a stone master (or something like it). 6th fallacy
Sources : Walter Wreszinski, "gyptische Inschriften aus dem K.K. Hof Museum in Wien, 1906, J. C. Hinrichs' sche Buchhandlung) - and - Hermanne Ranke, Die "gyptischen Personennamen, Verzeichnis der Namen, Verlag Von J J Augustin in Gl"ckstadt, Band I, 1935. Band II, 1952.

3 - Errors Which Contradict Secular and Scientific Data
A - Ishmael : Again he assume Bible is correct. (One fallacy is a mistake, two same fallacies is stupidity, three same fallacies - you have ..... mental disorder ) 7th fallacy
B - Samaritan : I do not have necessary knowledge about this particular issue.
C - Sunset : OK, Hereby, I declare whoever uses this argument as valid and sound argument and at the same time uses the word "sunset" must and should send to Mars on one way mission. Because it says, He perceived, that sun sets in murky water. Go to the beach at sunset and watch to sunset and you will see that sun sets in water. 8th fallacy
D - Issa : First of all the name of Jesus in Arabic is Isa (Eesa pronounced as /i: sa/ - fallacy again ). The people of time of Jesus spoke Aramaic, including his mother, so name of Jesus is Aramaic, and what is the name of Jesus in Aramaic?! It is Isho or I"o. The Arabic spelling of name is the closest to His original name than every other language, including Hebrew. If you are so considered about original name of Isa, then why you say Jesus?! (It is a rhetorical question) 10th fallacy.
E - Mountains : Just do research and you will see it is just an absolute ignorance (And I am not the person who makes absolute claims). If you are not convinced I can post answer later. 11th fallacy.
F - Alexander the Great : First of all, there is no evidence which can assure Alexander is the same person which Quran talks about (Dhu al Qarnayn), and there has been disputes among Muslim scholars about these particular issue, through the history. If the premise of argument is weak then what is the name of fallacy?! 12 fallacy.
G - Creation : just go read Quran 86:5-7. Here is the link - http://alim.org... . 13th fallacy
H - Pharaoh's cross : WHat does jay doesn't know that on-line Smith's Bible Dictionary say under Crucifixion - "Crucifixion was in used among the Egyptians, Ge 40:19; the Carthaginians, the Persians, Es 7:10; the Assyrians, Scythains, Indians, Germans, and from the earliest times among the Greeks and Romans. Whether this mode of execution was known to the ancient Jews is a matter of dispute. Probably the Jews borrowed it from the Romans. It was unanimously considered the most horrible form of death." 14th fallacy.
I - I can't go through all of these now, but I will in later posts.

4 - Absurdities
A : "Greater surely than the creation of man is the creation of the heavens and the earth; but most men know it not." Quran4:59. I don't know why Jay thinks it refers to size. (may be he has some issues with sizes, and I know that it is ad hominem)15th fallacy.
B : Please read it carefully specially last part - "Sura 65:12 reads, "It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths." We would love to know where the other six earths are. If these refer to the planets in our solar system, then they are short by two (and now possibly three)." And now possible three, what the hell, first of all it does not refer to planets in Solar system. Secondly there is no universe exist that you can make 8 planets to be possibly 10, it is mathematically impossible. 16th and 17th fallacies.

I will continue rest later, and also touch upon the parts which I skipped (3B and 3I).
This is red.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/12/2014 8:30:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As a moral person I don't want to see your posts about the killer ape ideology held in Muhammad's book that is full of historical errors and is worthless as spiritual authority because of these errors in history and in moral judgment by Muhammad.

No one but moral cretins will be satisfied with the Quran as well as those who can't think by themselves and need to read Scripts to do their thinking for them. The Quran advocates religious Fascism and that's not of God and not of humanity. It's only of ambitious warlords and all the dumb people they fool into following them because they are afraid to think for themselves. Add fear of eternal torture in hell and presto! you have a billion brainwashed Muslims, another totalitarian threat to all the world just as the Communists once were and the Nazis.

I don't know this Jay fellow or seen his video but I've read the Quran enough times to know its' a very sick and twisted book that only brainwashed ignorant of history and critical thinking people could ever accept. Certainly no intelligent person would ever allow a 7th century man's ideas override modern science and ethics of human rights.

Poster of this thread: Which document is more important to human beings? The Quran or the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights?

We don't need or want religious fascism so the Quran's only for those who want to be morally irresponsible to their fellow human beings.
tahir.imanov
Posts: 272
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7/12/2014 9:14:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 8:30:04 PM, skinker wrote:
As a moral person I don't want to see your posts about the killer ape ideology held in Muhammad's book that is full of historical errors and is worthless as spiritual authority because of these errors in history and in moral judgment by Muhammad.
No one but moral cretins will be satisfied with the Quran as well as those who can't think by themselves and need to read Scripts to do their thinking for them. The Quran advocates religious Fascism and that's not of God and not of humanity. It's only of ambitious warlords and all the dumb people they fool into following them because they are afraid to think for themselves. Add fear of eternal torture in hell and presto! you have a billion brainwashed Muslims, another totalitarian threat to all the world just as the Communists once were and the Nazis.
I don't know this Jay fellow or seen his video but I've read the Quran enough times to know its' a very sick and twisted book that only brainwashed ignorant of history and critical thinking people could ever accept. Certainly no intelligent person would ever allow a 7th century man's ideas override modern science and ethics of human rights.
Poster of this thread: Which document is more important to human beings? The Quran or the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights?
We don't need or want religious fascism so the Quran's only for those who want to be morally irresponsible to their fellow human beings.

Thank you for such emotional argument. I must inform you that you are little off-topic. But I want an empirical evidence for every claim you just made. If you can't provide evidence, then you are just another random stupid person. (No offense.....)
This is red.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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7/12/2014 9:15:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 9:14:13 PM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 7/12/2014 8:30:04 PM, skinker wrote:
As a moral person I don't want to see your posts about the killer ape ideology held in Muhammad's book that is full of historical errors and is worthless as spiritual authority because of these errors in history and in moral judgment by Muhammad.
No one but moral cretins will be satisfied with the Quran as well as those who can't think by themselves and need to read Scripts to do their thinking for them. The Quran advocates religious Fascism and that's not of God and not of humanity. It's only of ambitious warlords and all the dumb people they fool into following them because they are afraid to think for themselves. Add fear of eternal torture in hell and presto! you have a billion brainwashed Muslims, another totalitarian threat to all the world just as the Communists once were and the Nazis.
I don't know this Jay fellow or seen his video but I've read the Quran enough times to know its' a very sick and twisted book that only brainwashed ignorant of history and critical thinking people could ever accept. Certainly no intelligent person would ever allow a 7th century man's ideas override modern science and ethics of human rights.
Poster of this thread: Which document is more important to human beings? The Quran or the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights?
We don't need or want religious fascism so the Quran's only for those who want to be morally irresponsible to their fellow human beings.

Thank you for such emotional argument. I must inform you that you are little off-topic. But I want an empirical evidence for every claim you just made. If you can't provide evidence, then you are just another random stupid person. (No offense.....)

tahir this guy is just a troller ignore him...
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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7/12/2014 9:21:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 7:58:42 PM, tahir.imanov wrote:
There is an article published by jay smith on web site debate.org.uk ( http://www.debate.org.uk... ) which talks about contradictions in Quran.

1 - First part is says Quran is wrong because some places it contradicts Bible (check the link above). If you are not yet realized that it is a fallacious argument, you need a psychiatrist. So first part consist of four fallacies.

2 - Second part is about Quran contradicting itself.
A - Mary and Imran : It is not a contradiction, if you don't believe me ask Semitic speaking people (Ask to Jews, or Syrians - Syriac speaking people, or Non-Muslim Arabs). 5th fallacy
B - Haman : Again he assumes haman of Bible is true, it is a second most stupid fallacy, because archeology and Egyptology say to us that Haman was a title (name) of a stone master (or something like it). 6th fallacy
Sources : Walter Wreszinski, "gyptische Inschriften aus dem K.K. Hof Museum in Wien, 1906, J. C. Hinrichs' sche Buchhandlung) - and - Hermanne Ranke, Die "gyptischen Personennamen, Verzeichnis der Namen, Verlag Von J J Augustin in Gl"ckstadt, Band I, 1935. Band II, 1952.

3 - Errors Which Contradict Secular and Scientific Data
A - Ishmael : Again he assume Bible is correct. (One fallacy is a mistake, two same fallacies is stupidity, three same fallacies - you have ..... mental disorder ) 7th fallacy
B - Samaritan : I do not have necessary knowledge about this particular issue.
C - Sunset : OK, Hereby, I declare whoever uses this argument as valid and sound argument and at the same time uses the word "sunset" must and should send to Mars on one way mission. Because it says, He perceived, that sun sets in murky water. Go to the beach at sunset and watch to sunset and you will see that sun sets in water. 8th fallacy
D - Issa : First of all the name of Jesus in Arabic is Isa (Eesa pronounced as /i: sa/ - fallacy again ). The people of time of Jesus spoke Aramaic, including his mother, so name of Jesus is Aramaic, and what is the name of Jesus in Aramaic?! It is Isho or I"o. The Arabic spelling of name is the closest to His original name than every other language, including Hebrew. If you are so considered about original name of Isa, then why you say Jesus?! (It is a rhetorical question) 10th fallacy.
E - Mountains : Just do research and you will see it is just an absolute ignorance (And I am not the person who makes absolute claims). If you are not convinced I can post answer later. 11th fallacy.
F - Alexander the Great : First of all, there is no evidence which can assure Alexander is the same person which Quran talks about (Dhu al Qarnayn), and there has been disputes among Muslim scholars about these particular issue, through the history. If the premise of argument is weak then what is the name of fallacy?! 12 fallacy.
G - Creation : just go read Quran 86:5-7. Here is the link - http://alim.org... . 13th fallacy
H - Pharaoh's cross : WHat does jay doesn't know that on-line Smith's Bible Dictionary say under Crucifixion - "Crucifixion was in used among the Egyptians, Ge 40:19; the Carthaginians, the Persians, Es 7:10; the Assyrians, Scythains, Indians, Germans, and from the earliest times among the Greeks and Romans. Whether this mode of execution was known to the ancient Jews is a matter of dispute. Probably the Jews borrowed it from the Romans. It was unanimously considered the most horrible form of death." 14th fallacy.
I - I can't go through all of these now, but I will in later posts.

4 - Absurdities
A : "Greater surely than the creation of man is the creation of the heavens and the earth; but most men know it not." Quran4:59. I don't know why Jay thinks it refers to size. (may be he has some issues with sizes, and I know that it is ad hominem)15th fallacy.
B : Please read it carefully specially last part - "Sura 65:12 reads, "It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths." We would love to know where the other six earths are. If these refer to the planets in our solar system, then they are short by two (and now possibly three)." And now possible three, what the hell, first of all it does not refer to planets in Solar system. Secondly there is no universe exist that you can make 8 planets to be possibly 10, it is mathematically impossible. 16th and 17th fallacies.

I will continue rest later, and also touch upon the parts which I skipped (3B and 3I).

I hate this guy so much every debate he uses the same lies against muslims.. like qouting verse 2:191 and says muslims can kill nonbelieveres, and ofcourse ignoring verse 190 or taking verses of surah 9 about the war stuff out of context, hadiths and many many more... anyway that guy make me sick, his stupidity has no limits, his lies make him a moron.
Never fart near dog
tahir.imanov
Posts: 272
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7/12/2014 9:40:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 9:21:18 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
I hate this guy so much every debate he uses the same lies against muslims.. like qouting verse 2:191 and says muslims can kill nonbelieveres, and ofcourse ignoring verse 190 or taking verses of surah 9 about the war stuff out of context, hadiths and many many more... anyway that guy make me sick, his stupidity has no limits, his lies make him a moron.

Actually, if you think about it, him being still alive is the disproof of his statement. (Unless he is some secret Muslim spy :))/ that would be funny.)
This is red.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/12/2014 9:58:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Only bloodthirsty Muslims would find not being found dead "funny". You guys really need to get a real religion instead of that piece of junk you idolize that propels Muslims into killing each other and non-Muslims too. It's not a religion you got but a political party started by a religious fraud who wanted to be another Moses but more so, and have his political party take over the world.

Please, guys, go back to school in the West somewhere and learn about human rights you don't have as Muslims and never will have until you wake up and get smart and stop letting a 7th century meglomaniac dictate your mentality and your actions in our world. That's just plain stupid you know to let 7th century ideas rule your 21st century world. It can only produce what it does produce: social violence.
jh1234l
Posts: 580
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7/12/2014 11:26:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 8:30:04 PM, skinker wrote:
As a moral person I don't want to see your posts about the killer ape ideology held in Muhammad's book that is full of historical errors and is worthless as spiritual authority because of these errors in history and in moral judgment by Muhammad.

No one but moral cretins will be satisfied with the Quran as well as those who can't think by themselves and need to read Scripts to do their thinking for them. The Quran advocates religious Fascism and that's not of God and not of humanity. It's only of ambitious warlords and all the dumb people they fool into following them because they are afraid to think for themselves. Add fear of eternal torture in hell and presto! you have a billion brainwashed Muslims, another totalitarian threat to all the world just as the Communists once were and the Nazis.

I don't know this Jay fellow or seen his video but I've read the Quran enough times to know its' a very sick and twisted book that only brainwashed ignorant of history and critical thinking people could ever accept. Certainly no intelligent person would ever allow a 7th century man's ideas override modern science and ethics of human rights.

Poster of this thread: Which document is more important to human beings? The Quran or the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights?

We don't need or want religious fascism so the Quran's only for those who want to be morally irresponsible to their fellow human beings.

While you raise somewhat valid, though opinionated and emotion-based, points about Islam, none of your points are related or even slightly relevant to the original poster's refutations of Jay Smith's claims.
My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82
1 square right of Nelson Mandela, 2 squares down from Francois Hollande
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/13/2014 12:32:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
You're right. That's because you don't need to know that heroine is dangerous by taking it. All you have to do is research what happens when people do take the drug. Same thing with the Quran: it makes Muslims dangerous people by their ACTIONS harming other people for Quranic reasons. We need to wake you Muslims out of your mental torpor that allows you to forget the 21st century and want to reinstate the 7th century religious fascist ideas instead.

My country, the one Fatihah lives in but acts the enemy agent, struggled for the creation of a nation where we don't have to fear religious fascists anymore or dictatorships but you Muslims are stuck with a political ideology that is another one of these fascist dictatorship deals, Sharia Law you call it but its an abomination to human rights and our Bill of Rights. In short, we choose Democracy against Islamic fascism.
We don't want killers roaming our streets looking for people to kill just because they were born into the wrong families or adhere to different beliefs. Muhammadism is just too primitive and violent for modern civilization to consider. It belongs on the compost heap of history but Muslim egos won't retire from bothering everyone with their violent outdated religious ideology as we see they can't even retire from posting Quranic idolatry here on Debate even though all the rest of us are fairly sick of it, it matching the Muslim/Zionist warfare going on too closely, as these Abrahamic idiots drag the world into nonsensical politicized religious warfare that has zip to do with God and everything to do with egotistical violent crazied men.
tahir.imanov
Posts: 272
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7/14/2014 2:57:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/12/2014 9:58:03 PM, skinker wrote:
Only bloodthirsty Muslims would find not being found dead "funny". You guys really need to get a real religion instead of that piece of junk you idolize that propels Muslims into killing each other and non-Muslims too. It's not a religion you got but a political party started by a religious fraud who wanted to be another Moses but more so, and have his political party take over the world.

Please, guys, go back to school in the West somewhere and learn about human rights you don't have as Muslims and never will have until you wake up and get smart and stop letting a 7th century meglomaniac dictate your mentality and your actions in our world. That's just plain stupid you know to let 7th century ideas rule your 21st century world. It can only produce what it does produce: social violence.

Funny part is not about him being dead or alive, it is about if he is secret spy.
And I would suggest to you study history. Everything west has is taken from Islam - Math, Science, Logic, Hygiene, Medicine, Navigation, Empiricism, even Evolution.
And also religious freedoms, woman's rights, children's rights are coming from Islam.
At least Muslims don't have history of racism.
This is red.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/14/2014 11:37:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 2:57:37 AM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 7/12/2014 9:58:03 PM, skinker wrote:
Only bloodthirsty Muslims would find not being found dead "funny". You guys really need to get a real religion instead of that piece of junk you idolize that propels Muslims into killing each other and non-Muslims too. It's not a religion you got but a political party started by a religious fraud who wanted to be another Moses but more so, and have his political party take over the world.

Please, guys, go back to school in the West somewhere and learn about human rights you don't have as Muslims and never will have until you wake up and get smart and stop letting a 7th century meglomaniac dictate your mentality and your actions in our world. That's just plain stupid you know to let 7th century ideas rule your 21st century world. It can only produce what it does produce: social violence.

Funny part is not about him being dead or alive, it is about if he is secret spy.
And I would suggest to you study history. Everything west has is taken from Islam - Math, Science, Logic, Hygiene, Medicine, Navigation, Empiricism, even Evolution.
And also religious freedoms, woman's rights, children's rights are coming from Islam.
At least Muslims don't have history of racism.

Again we see Muslims taught ignorance of real history as this Muslim doesn't seem to know Math of Muslims was taken from Indians, and Science was the recovery of Greek science, likewise, logic, hygiene, medicine, navigation (from Canaanites the experts) and no empircism as Muhammadism disallows logical thinking and certainly no evolution as Muslims are taught historical processes don't exist and the Past dictates the Present and Future thus eliminating evolution.

And RACISM...no other religion on earth is more associated with Slavery trade than Muhummad's Muslims. Get real, tell the truth, and find a decent non-totalitarian, non-fascist religious belief system other than Muhammad's fraud using our Jewish stories which he didn't know a thing about trying to convince himself and other Muslims that Jewish Scriptures are best explained and enacted by Muslim Gentiles without knowledge of real Jewish history and beliefs.
tahir.imanov
Posts: 272
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7/15/2014 1:37:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 11:37:39 PM, skinker wrote:
At 7/14/2014 2:57:37 AM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 7/12/2014 9:58:03 PM, skinker wrote:
Only bloodthirsty Muslims would find not being found dead "funny". You guys really need to get a real religion instead of that piece of junk you idolize that propels Muslims into killing each other and non-Muslims too. It's not a religion you got but a political party started by a religious fraud who wanted to be another Moses but more so, and have his political party take over the world.

Please, guys, go back to school in the West somewhere and learn about human rights you don't have as Muslims and never will have until you wake up and get smart and stop letting a 7th century meglomaniac dictate your mentality and your actions in our world. That's just plain stupid you know to let 7th century ideas rule your 21st century world. It can only produce what it does produce: social violence.

Funny part is not about him being dead or alive, it is about if he is secret spy.
And I would suggest to you study history. Everything west has is taken from Islam - Math, Science, Logic, Hygiene, Medicine, Navigation, Empiricism, even Evolution.
And also religious freedoms, woman's rights, children's rights are coming from Islam.
At least Muslims don't have history of racism.

Again we see Muslims taught ignorance of real history as this Muslim doesn't seem to know Math of Muslims was taken from Indians, and Science was the recovery of Greek science, likewise, logic, hygiene, medicine, navigation (from Canaanites the experts) and no empircism as Muhammadism disallows logical thinking and certainly no evolution as Muslims are taught historical processes don't exist and the Past dictates the Present and Future thus eliminating evolution.

And RACISM...no other religion on earth is more associated with Slavery trade than Muhummad's Muslims. Get real, tell the truth, and find a decent non-totalitarian, non-fascist religious belief system other than Muhammad's fraud using our Jewish stories which he didn't know a thing about trying to convince himself and other Muslims that Jewish Scriptures are best explained and enacted by Muslim Gentiles without knowledge of real Jewish history and beliefs.

Do you want to debate evolution issue with me?
Come on, and challenge me.

And by the way, it doesn't matter from where Muslims took ideas, point is West took it from Muslims. So, s### it up.
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skinker
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7/15/2014 7:35:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Point is you believe in a fascist ideology and pretend it's a religion. You're day is gone and only rides on cultural ignorance of Muslims who have never gone through the centuries of social evolution that produced the Bill of Rights in America and the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. These are far more important texts than what you believe in and that's the bottom line for humankind. No more Abrahamic religious fascism. We got rid of the Catholic fascists, and the German ones, and the Communist ones and we'll get rid of Zionist ones and Muslim ones. Fascists want to kill people who resist them. You with your religious beliefs are one of these people who pose a threat to human rights and freedoms which is why I come down so heavy on your beliefs and want you to change them. We don't need BAD RELIGION in our world and you've got a very bad one which is proven everyday with your fellow religionists blowing each other up in the Bomber's Muhammadism sick joke of allegiance to God's goodness.

If you can't give up idolatry of Muhammad at least go to the real practitioners of a religion of peace, the Ahmadiyyah Muslims. I have no, repeat NO conflict with Ahmadiyyah Muslims because they don't kill people to serve God.