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If we don't sin, did Jesus die for nothing?

InnovativeEphemera
Posts: 40
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7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

So does that mean if we don't sin, then his act of sacrifice was in vain?

Do I owe it to Jesus to sleep with people I'm not married to and do things that make me happy and have a happy life? Do I owe it to Jesus to actually be nice to others instead of stoning them or starting wars or dashing their babe's heads against rocks?

Just wondering.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/13/2014 1:15:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

So does that mean if we don't sin, then his act of sacrifice was in vain?

Do I owe it to Jesus to sleep with people I'm not married to and do things that make me happy and have a happy life? Do I owe it to Jesus to actually be nice to others instead of stoning them or starting wars or dashing their babe's heads against rocks?

Just wondering.

Jesus did not die for all the sins of men. God had already planned the salvation of all His people and Jesus and the rest of us saints are here to testify to His plan. We get killed for our testimonies of the Word of God, where all God's knowledge exists of the past, present and future.

Psalm 116
16. Precious in the sight of thy Lord is the death of his saints.

Revelation 6
9: When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne;
10: they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?"
11: Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/13/2014 1:50:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

So does that mean if we don't sin, then his act of sacrifice was in vain?

Do I owe it to Jesus to sleep with people I'm not married to and do things that make me happy and have a happy life? Do I owe it to Jesus to actually be nice to others instead of stoning them or starting wars or dashing their babe's heads against rocks?

Just wondering.

Bornofgod is a BornofGodian, not a Christian. So he doesn't speak for Christianity.

I'm an atheist rather than a Christian, so I don't speak for Christianity either. But in speaking for logic, IF Jesus died, then he died for nothing. Dying doesn't do anything to make up for sin. If I punch Bob in the nose, then Ted dies as a sacrifice for my sins, does it do anything to fix Bob's broken nose? Of course not. The entire idea is ridiculous, silly, and stems from the same primitive notions about "sacrifice" as tossing virgins into volcanoes and cutting off your finger as a gesture of apology.

Not only is it pointless and stupid, it teaches people that their responsibilities are transferable, and that dying has value. Those are both some pretty twisted and horrific things to teach children. Jesus only died if he lived. And if the evidence is analyzed objectively, it's quite doubtful that he ever lived. He's as much of a myth as Zeus, Krishna or Mithra. But IF he lived, and IF he died on the cross, his death means nothing more than the waste of a life.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/13/2014 2:11:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 1:50:15 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

So does that mean if we don't sin, then his act of sacrifice was in vain?

Do I owe it to Jesus to sleep with people I'm not married to and do things that make me happy and have a happy life? Do I owe it to Jesus to actually be nice to others instead of stoning them or starting wars or dashing their babe's heads against rocks?

Just wondering.

Bornofgod is a BornofGodian, not a Christian. So he doesn't speak for Christianity.

I'm an atheist rather than a Christian, so I don't speak for Christianity either. But in speaking for logic, IF Jesus died, then he died for nothing. Dying doesn't do anything to make up for sin. If I punch Bob in the nose, then Ted dies as a sacrifice for my sins, does it do anything to fix Bob's broken nose? Of course not. The entire idea is ridiculous, silly, and stems from the same primitive notions about "sacrifice" as tossing virgins into volcanoes and cutting off your finger as a gesture of apology.

Not only is it pointless and stupid, it teaches people that their responsibilities are transferable, and that dying has value. Those are both some pretty twisted and horrific things to teach children. Jesus only died if he lived. And if the evidence is analyzed objectively, it's quite doubtful that he ever lived. He's as much of a myth as Zeus, Krishna or Mithra. But IF he lived, and IF he died on the cross, his death means nothing more than the waste of a life.

All the saints and most of the prophets died for their testimony of the invisible Word of God, which is God's consciousness where we all exist. We didn't come here to support Christianity, which is a false religion that doesn't promote the Truth. We come to tell anyone who listens to us that we're all in the mind of our Creator ( consciousness of God ) and that we'll experience life forever. Christians have no idea that ALL God's people and beasts will get new bodies in the next age and continue to experience life.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/13/2014 2:35:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 1:15:02 AM, bornofgod quoted:
Psalm 116
16. Precious in the sight of thy Lord is the death of his saints.

So should you actually believe it to be true, then why are you making your god miserable still by waiting another 6 - 7 months to make your god happy?
Artur
Posts: 725
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7/13/2014 3:19:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If Jesus died for the sins of humanity, then if Hitler was christian he is in heaven now no matter how many people he either killed or commanded to kill them.

He killed more than 5 million jews, this is a big crime, big sin but Jesus died for his sins so he is in heaven now.

Now, somebody may say "Hitler was not christian" I am giving example. Any way, popes of the middle age were christians, they sponged people, they raped little girls but Jesus died for their sins, Jesus paid for that sins, they are all in heaven now.

So, "God/Jesus died for our sisns" is such 'logical' idea, doctrine. :)
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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7/13/2014 3:30:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

He died for the original sin we all have, so your snarky attitude is unfounded :)
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/13/2014 3:41:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 3:30:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

He died for the original sin we all have, so your snarky attitude is unfounded :)

"Original Sin" is another ridiculous idea. How does dying do anything to revert sin? And if it did, Adam (the cartoon character from Gardenofedenland), already died. Hence, The wages of sin - being death - were already paid. So God and Adam are even. Tell God to shut his face, stop killing his kids for nothing, and live up to his end of the bargain.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
andymcstab
Posts: 308
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7/13/2014 6:48:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Shocking the ignorance here.
You have all sinned, all of you, and saying you havn't, or don't, is just another stone heaped on the mountain.

Jesus took your punishment so that those who belief in him may be saved, and those who believe in Jesus, do not offend him by murder and the rest of it.
Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
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7/13/2014 7:24:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Christians don't get a "free pass" to sin:

Romans 6 1-4, ESV
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

If we say, "hey we're all forgiven anyway; now, let us sin!" then it's not true repentance. It's not works that make you a Christian, but faith; and faith without effort is a dead faith.
Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
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7/13/2014 7:36:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also, like andymcstab has already said, we're ALL selfish sinners, so if you think that you can live a sinless life then you're only fooling yourself.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/13/2014 11:23:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 2:35:20 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 1:15:02 AM, bornofgod quoted:
Psalm 116
16. Precious in the sight of thy Lord is the death of his saints.

So should you actually believe it to be true, then why are you making your god miserable still by waiting another 6 - 7 months to make your god happy?

It's kind of like waiting for the end of the movie. Would you skip the last part of a good movie to get to the final scene?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/14/2014 3:44:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 11:23:18 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:35:20 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 1:15:02 AM, bornofgod quoted:
Psalm 116
16. Precious in the sight of thy Lord is the death of his saints.

So should you actually believe it to be true, then why are you making your god miserable still by waiting another 6 - 7 months to make your god happy?

It's kind of like waiting for the end of the movie. Would you skip the last part of a good movie to get to the final scene?
We can only sit back and wait for 6 months and hopefully this psycho will not be troubling us any longer in that he will have made his god happy or run for the hills dragging his psychotic beliefs with him!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/14/2014 12:44:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 3:44:38 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 11:23:18 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:35:20 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 1:15:02 AM, bornofgod quoted:
Psalm 116
16. Precious in the sight of thy Lord is the death of his saints.

So should you actually believe it to be true, then why are you making your god miserable still by waiting another 6 - 7 months to make your god happy?

It's kind of like waiting for the end of the movie. Would you skip the last part of a good movie to get to the final scene?
We can only sit back and wait for 6 months and hopefully this psycho will not be troubling us any longer in that he will have made his god happy or run for the hills dragging his psychotic beliefs with him!

Psalm 41
5: My enemies say of me in malice: "When will he die, and his name perish?"
6: And when one comes to see me, he utters empty words, while his heart gathers mischief; when he goes out, he tells it abroad.
7: All who hate me whisper together about me; they imagine the worst for me.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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7/14/2014 12:55:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 12:44:40 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/14/2014 3:44:38 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 11:23:18 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:35:20 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 1:15:02 AM, bornofgod quoted:
Psalm 116
16. Precious in the sight of thy Lord is the death of his saints.

So should you actually believe it to be true, then why are you making your god miserable still by waiting another 6 - 7 months to make your god happy?

It's kind of like waiting for the end of the movie. Would you skip the last part of a good movie to get to the final scene?
We can only sit back and wait for 6 months and hopefully this psycho will not be troubling us any longer in that he will have made his god happy or run for the hills dragging his psychotic beliefs with him!

Psalm 41
5: My enemies say of me in malice: "When will he die, and his name perish?"
6: And when one comes to see me, he utters empty words, while his heart gathers mischief; when he goes out, he tells it abroad.
7: All who hate me whisper together about me; they imagine the worst for me.

bog who are you robbing to get internet access?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/14/2014 1:54:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 12:55:11 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/14/2014 12:44:40 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/14/2014 3:44:38 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 11:23:18 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/13/2014 2:35:20 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/13/2014 1:15:02 AM, bornofgod quoted:
Psalm 116
16. Precious in the sight of thy Lord is the death of his saints.

So should you actually believe it to be true, then why are you making your god miserable still by waiting another 6 - 7 months to make your god happy?

It's kind of like waiting for the end of the movie. Would you skip the last part of a good movie to get to the final scene?
We can only sit back and wait for 6 months and hopefully this psycho will not be troubling us any longer in that he will have made his god happy or run for the hills dragging his psychotic beliefs with him!

Psalm 41
5: My enemies say of me in malice: "When will he die, and his name perish?"
6: And when one comes to see me, he utters empty words, while his heart gathers mischief; when he goes out, he tells it abroad.
7: All who hate me whisper together about me; they imagine the worst for me.

bog who are you robbing to get internet access?

I use free Wifi access. What do you use to get on the internet?
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/14/2014 2:25:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

So does that mean if we don't sin, then his act of sacrifice was in vain?

Do I owe it to Jesus to sleep with people I'm not married to and do things that make me happy and have a happy life? Do I owe it to Jesus to actually be nice to others instead of stoning them or starting wars or dashing their babe's heads against rocks?

Just wondering.

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

How jesus pbuh fits in i dont know this and that exacly teaching of Islam. you are not going out of your way commit whatever you like and Jesus will fogive you through sacrifice, its make any sense?
Never fart near dog
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/14/2014 3:31:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 2:25:24 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

So does that mean if we don't sin, then his act of sacrifice was in vain?

Do I owe it to Jesus to sleep with people I'm not married to and do things that make me happy and have a happy life? Do I owe it to Jesus to actually be nice to others instead of stoning them or starting wars or dashing their babe's heads against rocks?

Just wondering.

Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

How jesus pbuh fits in i dont know this
Because it doesn't. This is what happens when you take the writings of multiple authors, from different times and different cultures, and try to merge them together claiming they are a single unified message - you create contradictions.

... and that exacly teaching of Islam. you are not going out of your way commit whatever you like and Jesus will fogive you through sacrifice, its make any sense?
No, it makes no sense whatsoever. If you wrong me and I decide it is more beneficial to forget about the wrong and not hold it against you, I don't have to harm myself or give anything up to do so. Besides, Jesus was not the one harmed and has nothing to forgive.

- The idea of dying for sins is pure idiocy
- The idea of sacrifice as an apology is idiocy dating back to throwing children into volcanic craters
- The permission to "commit whatever you like" is strictly contrary to morality. No wonder theists are so filled with violence and anger!
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/14/2014 5:11:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 3:30:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

He died for the original sin we all have, so your snarky attitude is unfounded :)

Jesus did NOT die for the original sin we all have. He was a saint among many saints who came after him with a message that our invisible Creator has already planned the salvation of ALL His people from their wicked flesh and the world that the flesh inhabits.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/14/2014 5:21:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 5:11:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/13/2014 3:30:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

He died for the original sin we all have, so your snarky attitude is unfounded :)

Jesus did NOT die for the original sin we all have. He was a saint among many saints who came after him with a message that our invisible Creator has already planned the salvation of ALL His people from their wicked flesh and the world that the flesh inhabits.

Jesus wasn't a saint. He was a story... several of them actually. In one story (written by the Essenes), he was a fierce warrior. The Carpocratians wrote of him as a pedophile, since they believed pedophilia to be a virtue (really!). Then we have the gnostic Jesus, the ascetic Jesus, the proto-orthodox Jesus and several others.

The Jesus of Christianity today was selected and manufactured by the council of the 4th century, not by the actions of a man in the early first century. While more and more people are realizing that no such man likely existed, the real point is that the Jesus of the Bible never existed. He's a 4th century Frakenstein, constructed by selecting various bits and pieces of diverse Jesus tales, along with limbs, toes, the tongue and miracles of a dozen or more earlier pagan gods.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/14/2014 5:34:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 5:21:00 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/14/2014 5:11:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/13/2014 3:30:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

He died for the original sin we all have, so your snarky attitude is unfounded :)

Jesus did NOT die for the original sin we all have. He was a saint among many saints who came after him with a message that our invisible Creator has already planned the salvation of ALL His people from their wicked flesh and the world that the flesh inhabits.

Jesus wasn't a saint. He was a story... several of them actually. In one story (written by the Essenes), he was a fierce warrior. The Carpocratians wrote of him as a pedophile, since they believed pedophilia to be a virtue (really!). Then we have the gnostic Jesus, the ascetic Jesus, the proto-orthodox Jesus and several others.

The Jesus of Christianity today was selected and manufactured by the council of the 4th century, not by the actions of a man in the early first century. While more and more people are realizing that no such man likely existed, the real point is that the Jesus of the Bible never existed. He's a 4th century Frakenstein, constructed by selecting various bits and pieces of diverse Jesus tales, along with limbs, toes, the tongue and miracles of a dozen or more earlier pagan gods.

I respect your perspective about the name "Jesus". In fact, English wasn't spoken 2,000 years ago so there wasn't anyone by the name of Jesus. I do know that a saint is an illusion ( flesh ) that God uses to testify to our invisible created existence as vibrations. From these vibrations, we are processed into illusions that make us believe this world is real and that our bodies ( flesh ) are real.

In other words, I know we're experiencing a dream together.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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7/15/2014 8:11:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 7:49:25 AM, XLAV wrote:

If we don't sin, then there is no need for Jesus.

Untrue according to Christian doctrine. Once Adam sinned, he broke his connection/unique relationship with God. All his offspring were then born with the same condition. Thus Jesus was faced with two problems He had to solve. First He had to deal with the sins we've actually committed, and then He had to deal with the broken relationship. Thus, even if no one had sinned after Adam, (impossible, but for the sake of argument) we still would have needed Jesus to repair the broken relationship.

If you are going to write lame criticisms on Christian doctrine, perhaps you should learn what it says first?

No?
You would lose your troll license?
Ok then. Carry on.
XLAV
Posts: 13,719
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7/15/2014 8:32:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 8:11:58 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/13/2014 7:49:25 AM, XLAV wrote:

If we don't sin, then there is no need for Jesus.

Untrue according to Christian doctrine. Once Adam sinned, he broke his connection/unique relationship with God. All his offspring were then born with the same condition. Thus Jesus was faced with two problems He had to solve. First He had to deal with the sins we've actually committed, and then He had to deal with the broken relationship. Thus, even if no one had sinned after Adam, (impossible, but for the sake of argument) we still would have needed Jesus to repair the broken relationship.
God obviously wanted Adam and Eve to eat the damn fruit of knowledge so his "plan" would work. God needs sin for his design to even work. Imagine if Adam and Eve obeyed God and imagine they didn't eat from the unnecessary tree of knowledge. Men will not die. All men can do is fvck. Men will overpopulate the Earth. Hell, they don't even need to eat anything since they can live forever.

We had no knowledge of good and evil and Satan gave us knowledge therefore doing nothing wrong.

If you are going to write lame criticisms on Christian doctrine, perhaps you should learn what it says first?
Lol, Genesis is lame.

No?
You would lose your troll license?
If you are going to label someone a troll, perhaps you should know who the person is first, no?
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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7/15/2014 9:32:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 8:32:11 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/15/2014 8:11:58 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/13/2014 7:49:25 AM, XLAV wrote:

If we don't sin, then there is no need for Jesus.

Untrue according to Christian doctrine. Once Adam sinned, he broke his connection/unique relationship with God. All his offspring were then born with the same condition. Thus Jesus was faced with two problems He had to solve. First He had to deal with the sins we've actually committed, and then He had to deal with the broken relationship. Thus, even if no one had sinned after Adam, (impossible, but for the sake of argument) we still would have needed Jesus to repair the broken relationship.

God obviously wanted Adam and Eve to eat the damn fruit of knowledge so his "plan" would work. God needs sin for his design to even work. Imagine if Adam and Eve obeyed God and imagine they didn't eat from the unnecessary tree of knowledge. Men will not die. All men can do is fvck. Men will overpopulate the Earth. Hell, they don't even need to eat anything since they can live forever.

We had no knowledge of good and evil and Satan gave us knowledge therefore doing nothing wrong.

If you are going to write lame criticisms on Christian doctrine, perhaps you should learn what it says first?
Lol, Genesis is lame.

Then you are lame for spouting off about it. I would tell you that your life is finite, but you won't get that till about 10 seconds before it ends.

No?
You would lose your troll license?
If you are going to label someone a troll, perhaps you should know who the person is first, no?

Yes. I wasn't calling you a troll. You're just another dolt who, because of their technologically advanced society, is convinced that logic is useless. The troll knows who he is.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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7/15/2014 9:37:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

So does that mean if we don't sin, then his act of sacrifice was in vain?

Do I owe it to Jesus to sleep with people I'm not married to and do things that make me happy and have a happy life? Do I owe it to Jesus to actually be nice to others instead of stoning them or starting wars or dashing their babe's heads against rocks?

Just wondering.

You don"t have to go that far, all you have to do is brake a trust, of which you understood you were trusted in. Once you have done that, you have sinned against your neighbor, brother sister parent whatever. One lie in such a trust qualifies. Also according to Jesus, since you brought it up, if you entertain such in your heart, you have sinned already which qualifies your need for salvation. See you don"t even have to hurt anyone and only God need to know.

You have received the life you have been given, hence human, and human nature leads to death as one can see all men die. But God"s nature leads to eternal life, which was fulfilled in the flesh in Jesus Christ. Hence receiving the Life of Christ has a nature that is not of men.
XLAV
Posts: 13,719
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7/15/2014 9:48:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 9:32:27 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 8:32:11 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/15/2014 8:11:58 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/13/2014 7:49:25 AM, XLAV wrote:

If we don't sin, then there is no need for Jesus.

Untrue according to Christian doctrine. Once Adam sinned, he broke his connection/unique relationship with God. All his offspring were then born with the same condition. Thus Jesus was faced with two problems He had to solve. First He had to deal with the sins we've actually committed, and then He had to deal with the broken relationship. Thus, even if no one had sinned after Adam, (impossible, but for the sake of argument) we still would have needed Jesus to repair the broken relationship.

God obviously wanted Adam and Eve to eat the damn fruit of knowledge so his "plan" would work. God needs sin for his design to even work. Imagine if Adam and Eve obeyed God and imagine they didn't eat from the unnecessary tree of knowledge. Men will not die. All men can do is fvck. Men will overpopulate the Earth. Hell, they don't even need to eat anything since they can live forever.

We had no knowledge of good and evil and Satan gave us knowledge therefore doing nothing wrong.

If you are going to write lame criticisms on Christian doctrine, perhaps you should learn what it says first?
Lol, Genesis is lame.

Then you are lame for spouting off about it. I would tell you that your life is finite, but you won't get that till about 10 seconds before it ends.
I know everyone's life has an end. I am not the one who believes in heaven and an afterlife here.

No?
You would lose your troll license?
If you are going to label someone a troll, perhaps you should know who the person is first, no?

Yes. I wasn't calling you a troll. You're just another dolt who, because of their technologically advanced society, is convinced that logic is useless. The troll knows who he is.
I never said logic is useless. I for one is following logic and not believing in an imaginary god.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/15/2014 10:03:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 3:19:05 AM, Artur wrote:
If Jesus died for the sins of humanity, then if Hitler was christian he is in heaven now no matter how many people he either killed or commanded to kill them.

He killed more than 5 million jews, this is a big crime, big sin but Jesus died for his sins so he is in heaven now.

Now, somebody may say "Hitler was not christian" I am giving example. Any way, popes of the middle age were christians, they sponged people, they raped little girls but Jesus died for their sins, Jesus paid for that sins, they are all in heaven now.

So, "God/Jesus died for our sisns" is such 'logical' idea, doctrine. :)

Jesus did not have to die for the sins of God's people. Death of the flesh and all it's worldly desires is the only way for the spirit of man to escape this world that we were all trapped into. This is why it's said, "The wages of sin is death".

God had already planned the salvation of all His people and spoke this through His prophets of old. The symbolic names of Israel, Jacob and Judah have much deeper meanings that no Christian has ever understood. Israel means all God's people in the flesh. Jacob means the invisible spirit where ALL God's people exist and Judah means the same thing. Zion, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, Christ, Son of God, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Eternal Life, Light of men, Holy Spirit, etc., all mean the same exact thing as Jacob and Judah. The flesh of man is called Israel so check out this prophecy once you understand these symbolic terms;

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.

We saints get taught the deeper meanings of the prophecies so we are here to tell God's believers that ALL God's people are saved from this world as their flesh perishes. Israel is the visible flesh of this visible world. Jacob is the invisible creation of God where all God's people exist as invisible vibrations, waiting to be formed into illusions ( visible world ) to experience life.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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7/15/2014 1:35:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/13/2014 12:23:41 AM, InnovativeEphemera wrote:
Jesus died for all our sins, right?

So does that mean if we don't sin, then his act of sacrifice was in vain?

Do I owe it to Jesus to sleep with people I'm not married to and do things that make me happy and have a happy life? Do I owe it to Jesus to actually be nice to others instead of stoning them or starting wars or dashing their babe's heads against rocks?

Just wondering.

Firstly I want to say that according to the Bible Jesus had right to forgive sins even before his death. So it was not needed him to die for forgiveness.

The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
Luke 5:21-25

Jesus gave that right also for his disciples:

Whoever's sins you forgive, they are forgiven them. Whoever's sins you retain, they have been retained."
John 20:23

Jesus was sent to preach the Gospel

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, Because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim release to the captives, Recovering of sight to the blind, To deliver those who are crushed, And to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke 4:18-19

"I must preach the good news of the Kingdom of God to the other cities also. For this reason I have been sent."
Luke 4:43

According to the Bible Jesus died because:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9

Jesus did not come for those who are without sin, but for those with sin.

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5:32
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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7/16/2014 8:42:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 9:48:59 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/15/2014 9:32:27 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 8:32:11 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/15/2014 8:11:58 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/13/2014 7:49:25 AM, XLAV wrote:

If we don't sin, then there is no need for Jesus.

Untrue according to Christian doctrine. Once Adam sinned, he broke his connection/unique relationship with God. All his offspring were then born with the same condition. Thus Jesus was faced with two problems He had to solve. First He had to deal with the sins we've actually committed, and then He had to deal with the broken relationship. Thus, even if no one had sinned after Adam, (impossible, but for the sake of argument) we still would have needed Jesus to repair the broken relationship.

God obviously wanted Adam and Eve to eat the damn fruit of knowledge so his "plan" would work.

So God told him NOT to eat it and told that he would die if he did. Yeah, that seems "obvious" to me too.

God needs sin for his design to even work.

What "design" would that be?

"Imagine if Adam and Eve obeyed God and imagine they didn't eat from the unnecessary tree of knowledge. Men will not die.

Which religious doctrine is this? I only defend Christian doctrine.

All men can do is fvck. Men will overpopulate the Earth. Hell, they don't even need to eat anything since they can live forever.

I would never make fun of a person who suffers from fugues. When you are lucid again, hit me up.

We had no knowledge of good and evil and Satan gave us knowledge therefore doing nothing wrong.

Um, no, you're not awake yet.

If you are going to write lame criticisms on Christian doctrine, perhaps you should learn what it says first?

Lol, Genesis is lame.

Yes. A book that has lasted more than 2,000 years, is still studied by scholars all over the world, is cherished by expert historians and and Christians alike, you think is , let me get your professional opinion now, lame.

That just screams "PhD". Where did you go to school? Harvard or Yale?

I would tell you that your life is finite, but you won't get that till about 10 seconds before it ends.

I know everyone's life has an end. I am not the one who believes in heaven and an afterlife here.

Everyone knows it intellectually. Your comments show you know it ONLY intellectually. No worries, everyone passes this test.

I never said logic is useless.

Then why did you not use it? If you think it has value, and it does, then use it.

I for one is following logic and not believing in an imaginary god.

Really? You're following logic? Ok. Show me the "logic" which led you to the conclusion that God is imaginary. Can you do that?

Be as logical as you like.