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I have decided - I am no longer Agnostic

Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 12:45:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am now a Unitarian Universalist. That's all. Please continue your discussions now.
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JohnMaynardKeynes
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7/14/2014 1:20:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Interesting. If you wouldn't mind my asking, what made you change your mind?
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

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skinker
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7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..
skinker
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7/14/2014 1:38:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sorry, but really, here we have a sale going on on Celestial Torah Christian membership at half price and you fall for these UU bozos down the street? Well, no Secret Celestial Torah Decoder Ring for you! Naw, just kidding..we don't punish the blundering fools who forgo our Bonus Offer on Celestial Torah trips to Saturn's 7th Heaven where He rules as God Most High, the 7th Heaven of course the highest Heaven of NASA's new earth-centered universe mapping. Get with the Plan! Dump the contenders and go for the real deal: Celestial Torah Christianity, the stars our destination.
skinker
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7/14/2014 1:42:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
For those joining in the next 20 minutes we'll throw in that Thai babe on the side bar or any one of the 5000 just like her.
skinker
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7/14/2014 1:43:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oops, where'd she go? And the other babe's gone too on the other side bar. Maybe they heard me posting..
JohnMaynardKeynes
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7/14/2014 1:46:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM, skinker wrote:
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..

Geez, it could just be that it's late and I'm exhausted, but that was a rant, lol.

I think there are a lot of generalizations in this post which may or may not apply to Blade-of-truth (I'll let him respond to those), but surely this isn't the case for all unitarian universalists, is it? I find that argument as silly as saying that all Christians or all Buddhists believe the same things, when obviously that isn't the case; for instance, some people are more devout than others, some cherrypick parts of their religious texts that they would like to follow, etc.
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 1:54:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:20:29 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
Interesting. If you wouldn't mind my asking, what made you change your mind?

I was told that you can't be just agnostic, but either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. I agree with neither position. The entire four-square spectrum is fvcked in my opinion. I can't accept it as a valid scale because I don't think that belief and knowledge are comparable with an equal weight when one is a subset of the other. So I took a quiz online, was told that my best match was Unitarian Universalism.

I believe in a creator god, but I don't believe this god plays an active role in these modern times. For me, God = Original Cause. Then evolution took over once his creation was set into motion. I don't feel comfortable in any one religion either. For instance, I like the Christian conception of One Supreme God, but believe that the Buddhist belief of an after-life as reincarnation is more reasonable than heaven or hell.

But why do I believe in a creator god? Nature. I can't walk in nature and accept that Humans created it. Something else did. The complexity and balance found in nature is truly astounding. I cannot accept that this system of order formed naturally out of a Universe ruled by Chaos. Can order come from chaos without intervention? If so, then maybe I just need to read that theory or proof. Because at this point, I don't believe that it does. At the same time though, it's hard to say if there is a creator god because I believe in the concept of oneness or that everything is connected and god can be found within each of us.

It's very confusing. A path I am still trying to forge out of this cluster-fvck of ideas and religions currently found in this world. If anything, I'd say that *for now* I identify most with Unitarian Universalism.
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Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 1:58:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM, skinker wrote:
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..

I constantly explore religions. If you have any recommendations please share. So far, I've explored Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Mormonism, Atheistic philosophy, Hinduism, Paganism, Taoism, Confucius philosophy, and Satanism. If you feel that some more paths would provide growth, please share.
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Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 2:05:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:38:33 AM, skinker wrote:
... UU bozos ...

What path do you choose to follow? I'm curious since you have such deep reservations against Unitarian Universalism.
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Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 3:04:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:46:30 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM, skinker wrote:
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..

Geez, it could just be that it's late and I'm exhausted, but that was a rant, lol.

I think there are a lot of generalizations in this post which may or may not apply to Blade-of-truth (I'll let him respond to those), but surely this isn't the case for all unitarian universalists, is it? I find that argument as silly as saying that all Christians or all Buddhists believe the same things, when obviously that isn't the case; for instance, some people are more devout than others, some cherrypick parts of their religious texts that they would like to follow, etc.

You're right JMK. Unitarian Universalism is an umbrella term that has many differing denominations, all working under that title.
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Lordgrae
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7/14/2014 3:26:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:42:13 AM, skinker wrote:
For those joining in the next 20 minutes we'll throw in that Thai babe on the side bar or any one of the 5000 just like her.

Any Thai guys?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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7/14/2014 3:27:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 3:04:11 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:46:30 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM, skinker wrote:
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..

Geez, it could just be that it's late and I'm exhausted, but that was a rant, lol.

I think there are a lot of generalizations in this post which may or may not apply to Blade-of-truth (I'll let him respond to those), but surely this isn't the case for all unitarian universalists, is it? I find that argument as silly as saying that all Christians or all Buddhists believe the same things, when obviously that isn't the case; for instance, some people are more devout than others, some cherrypick parts of their religious texts that they would like to follow, etc.

You're right JMK. Unitarian Universalism is an umbrella term that has many differing denominations, all working under that title.

Still, UU is one of the more sane churches that you could join. I have a friend who is a Unitarian Universalist. He's shown me some of their core tenets, and aside from the god thing, I'm totally on board.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/14/2014 5:58:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:58:19 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM, skinker wrote:
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..

I constantly explore religions. If you have any recommendations please share. So far, I've explored Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Mormonism, Atheistic philosophy, Hinduism, Paganism, Taoism, Confucius philosophy, and Satanism. If you feel that some more paths would provide growth, please share.

You forgot Islam... or maybe you have reason to reject it?
Never fart near dog
popculturepooka
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7/14/2014 9:26:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
haha, saying you are UU doesn't really tell us much. :P heck, I've seen atheists that are UU.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 3:01:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 5:58:27 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:58:19 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM, skinker wrote:
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..

I constantly explore religions. If you have any recommendations please share. So far, I've explored Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Mormonism, Atheistic philosophy, Hinduism, Paganism, Taoism, Confucius philosophy, and Satanism. If you feel that some more paths would provide growth, please share.

You forgot Islam... or maybe you have reason to reject it?

I have no good reason to reject it. I just haven't had the chance to read their holy book yet, the Quran. I will though, eventually, and probably should get on that asap as it's the last Abrahamic religion for me to look into.
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Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 3:06:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 9:26:28 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
haha, saying you are UU doesn't really tell us much. :P heck, I've seen atheists that are UU.

True. It's just the religion I recognize with the most at this point. I went into detail earlier about my own efforts of mix and matching at this point in my life. I guess you could say I went from an atheistic agnostic to an agnostic deist.
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PeacefulChaos
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7/14/2014 4:28:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:54:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:20:29 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
Interesting. If you wouldn't mind my asking, what made you change your mind?

I was told that you can't be just agnostic, but either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. I agree with neither position. The entire four-square spectrum is fvcked in my opinion. I can't accept it as a valid scale because I don't think that belief and knowledge are comparable with an equal weight when one is a subset of the other. So I took a quiz online, was told that my best match was Unitarian Universalism.

I believe in a creator god, but I don't believe this god plays an active role in these modern times. For me, God = Original Cause. Then evolution took over once his creation was set into motion. I don't feel comfortable in any one religion either. For instance, I like the Christian conception of One Supreme God, but believe that the Buddhist belief of an after-life as reincarnation is more reasonable than heaven or hell.

But why do I believe in a creator god? Nature. I can't walk in nature and accept that Humans created it. Something else did. The complexity and balance found in nature is truly astounding. I cannot accept that this system of order formed naturally out of a Universe ruled by Chaos. Can order come from chaos without intervention? If so, then maybe I just need to read that theory or proof. Because at this point, I don't believe that it does. At the same time though, it's hard to say if there is a creator god because I believe in the concept of oneness or that everything is connected and god can be found within each of us.

It's very confusing. A path I am still trying to forge out of this cluster-fvck of ideas and religions currently found in this world. If anything, I'd say that *for now* I identify most with Unitarian Universalism.

Just as a suggestion, you may want to investigate the Baha'i Faith.

It seems you view these different religions, and you find different parts that seem right, but not much else agrees with you (as you mentioned with Christianity and Buddhism). The Baha'i Faith has an interesting explanation for this confusion, so I thought I'd recommend it.
Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 4:43:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 4:28:54 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:54:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:20:29 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
Interesting. If you wouldn't mind my asking, what made you change your mind?

I was told that you can't be just agnostic, but either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. I agree with neither position. The entire four-square spectrum is fvcked in my opinion. I can't accept it as a valid scale because I don't think that belief and knowledge are comparable with an equal weight when one is a subset of the other. So I took a quiz online, was told that my best match was Unitarian Universalism.

I believe in a creator god, but I don't believe this god plays an active role in these modern times. For me, God = Original Cause. Then evolution took over once his creation was set into motion. I don't feel comfortable in any one religion either. For instance, I like the Christian conception of One Supreme God, but believe that the Buddhist belief of an after-life as reincarnation is more reasonable than heaven or hell.

But why do I believe in a creator god? Nature. I can't walk in nature and accept that Humans created it. Something else did. The complexity and balance found in nature is truly astounding. I cannot accept that this system of order formed naturally out of a Universe ruled by Chaos. Can order come from chaos without intervention? If so, then maybe I just need to read that theory or proof. Because at this point, I don't believe that it does. At the same time though, it's hard to say if there is a creator god because I believe in the concept of oneness or that everything is connected and god can be found within each of us.

It's very confusing. A path I am still trying to forge out of this cluster-fvck of ideas and religions currently found in this world. If anything, I'd say that *for now* I identify most with Unitarian Universalism.

Just as a suggestion, you may want to investigate the Baha'i Faith.

Okay, I'll definitely look into the Baha'i Faith. I'm literally acting as a filter right now just trying to run everything through my system before making my final decision on what path to truly follow.

It seems you view these different religions, and you find different parts that seem right, but not much else agrees with you (as you mentioned with Christianity and Buddhism).

Yup, you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what I'm doing.

I'm finding that each religion has some fundamental truth that can benefit me in some way or another in terms of attempting to understand all that is religion and the divine nature of one's existence in this world.

The Baha'i Faith has an interesting explanation for this confusion, so I thought I'd recommend it.

Okay, I'll definitely check it out. Thank you for the suggestion, I probably wouldn't have found that path to explore as soon as I have now that you've shared.
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Geogeer
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7/14/2014 7:14:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 12:45:11 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I am now a Unitarian Universalist. That's all. Please continue your discussions now.

Seems to fit with Free Masonry.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/14/2014 7:44:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 3:01:47 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 5:58:27 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:58:19 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM, skinker wrote:
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..

I constantly explore religions. If you have any recommendations please share. So far, I've explored Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Mormonism, Atheistic philosophy, Hinduism, Paganism, Taoism, Confucius philosophy, and Satanism. If you feel that some more paths would provide growth, please share.

You forgot Islam... or maybe you have reason to reject it?

I have no good reason to reject it. I just haven't had the chance to read their holy book yet, the Quran. I will though, eventually, and probably should get on that asap as it's the last Abrahamic religion for me to look into.

By the way here one wibe site of IERA (Islamic education and research academy) - http://www.onereason.org...

its good one to start with, simply what islam is about, brief answers to certians things from islamic view, like problem of evil, why god, why islam why Quran stuff like that...

To dig more deep you can visit site of Hamza Andreas Tzortzis,a well known muslim speaker debater and lecturer.. very good site and a lot of information on politics; debates, philosophy,science,quran,history,evulotion and many more... i really recommend this site.. anyway best of luck

http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...
Never fart near dog
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/14/2014 7:49:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 1:54:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:20:29 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
Interesting. If you wouldn't mind my asking, what made you change your mind?

I was told that you can't be just agnostic, but either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. I agree with neither position. The entire four-square spectrum is fvcked in my opinion. I can't accept it as a valid scale because I don't think that belief and knowledge are comparable with an equal weight when one is a subset of the other. So I took a quiz online, was told that my best match was Unitarian Universalism.

I believe in a creator god, but I don't believe this god plays an active role in these modern times. For me, God = Original Cause. Then evolution took over once his creation was set into motion. I don't feel comfortable in any one religion either. For instance, I like the Christian conception of One Supreme God, but believe that the Buddhist belief of an after-life as reincarnation is more reasonable than heaven or hell.

But why do I believe in a creator god? Nature. I can't walk in nature and accept that Humans created it. Something else did. The complexity and balance found in nature is truly astounding. I cannot accept that this system of order formed naturally out of a Universe ruled by Chaos. Can order come from chaos without intervention? If so, then maybe I just need to read that theory or proof. Because at this point, I don't believe that it does. At the same time though, it's hard to say if there is a creator god because I believe in the concept of oneness or that everything is connected and god can be found within each of us.

It's very confusing. A path I am still trying to forge out of this cluster-fvck of ideas and religions currently found in this world. If anything, I'd say that *for now* I identify most with Unitarian Universalism.

Not to be pedantic, but within the foursquare system, you would be an "agnostic theist"--that is, you don't make knowledge claims about god, but believe him to exist. So the foursquare fits. You can reject it if you want, though--I mean, that's your prerogative. It's all about how useful these linguistic pointers are.

Have you considered deism?

Also incidentally, yes, order can come from chaos without intervention. That's one of the big points of chaos theory, really. http://en.wikipedia.org...
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skinker
Posts: 345
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7/14/2014 7:57:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
POPOO, I'd really appreciate it if you wouldn't proselytize totalitarian fascism on Debate boards. We don't need more religious fascists creating havoc in our world than we already have. Your ideology pretends to be of God but it isn't. It never was, as your idol Muhammad didn't know what he was about stealing our Jewish myths of origin and trying to claim them for himself and his idea of god, Allah. Archeological science has debunked the myths Muhammad used as foundation for his fascist religious belief system and so why are you promoting false religion and fascism on Debate boards? We don't want to learn how to be moral cretins who can't tell right from wrong which is what Muhammad teaches you Muslims so that you end up as killers of even school girls as you make a mockery of real spirituality and real relationship with God.
Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 8:02:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 7:14:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 7/14/2014 12:45:11 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I am now a Unitarian Universalist. That's all. Please continue your discussions now.

Seems to fit with Free Masonry.

Alot of different religions work with Freemasonry.
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Blade-of-Truth
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7/14/2014 8:05:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 7:44:21 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/14/2014 3:01:47 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 5:58:27 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:58:19 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:30:52 AM, skinker wrote:
He didn't. He's still without Knowledge of God. All Unitarians are as their wishy-washy paint me Green and liberal political ideology rules their religious beliefs which are wishy-washy kinda Christian, maybe pagan ok too, Buddha's a blessing, save the whales, anti-GMOs, but if you're looking for spiritual knowledge, forget it, UU's a club for those who are too smart for Xian doctrines but too timid to seek another religion complete outside Xianity so they drag the other religious contenders continually into a watered down ecumenical soup palatable with a clear liberal conscience of WASPS..

I constantly explore religions. If you have any recommendations please share. So far, I've explored Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Mormonism, Atheistic philosophy, Hinduism, Paganism, Taoism, Confucius philosophy, and Satanism. If you feel that some more paths would provide growth, please share.

You forgot Islam... or maybe you have reason to reject it?

I have no good reason to reject it. I just haven't had the chance to read their holy book yet, the Quran. I will though, eventually, and probably should get on that asap as it's the last Abrahamic religion for me to look into.

By the way here one wibe site of IERA (Islamic education and research academy) - http://www.onereason.org...

its good one to start with, simply what islam is about, brief answers to certians things from islamic view, like problem of evil, why god, why islam why Quran stuff like that...

Sweet, thank you!! I appreciate you sharing this.

To dig more deep you can visit site of Hamza Andreas Tzortzis,a well known muslim speaker debater and lecturer.. very good site and a lot of information on politics; debates, philosophy,science,quran,history,evulotion and many more... i really recommend this site.. anyway best of luck

http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...

Okay great, so I can get an Islamic viewpoint on a broad spectrum of topics... that's great! Thank you again, I appreciate the informational links.
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Geogeer
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7/14/2014 8:24:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 8:02:48 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 7:14:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 7/14/2014 12:45:11 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I am now a Unitarian Universalist. That's all. Please continue your discussions now.

Seems to fit with Free Masonry.

Alot of different religions work with Freemasonry.

I wouldn't think most of Christianity, and Catholicism in particular, are compatible.
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7/14/2014 8:32:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 7:49:47 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:54:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/14/2014 1:20:29 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
Interesting. If you wouldn't mind my asking, what made you change your mind?

I was told that you can't be just agnostic, but either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. I agree with neither position. The entire four-square spectrum is fvcked in my opinion. I can't accept it as a valid scale because I don't think that belief and knowledge are comparable with an equal weight when one is a subset of the other. So I took a quiz online, was told that my best match was Unitarian Universalism.

I believe in a creator god, but I don't believe this god plays an active role in these modern times. For me, God = Original Cause. Then evolution took over once his creation was set into motion. I don't feel comfortable in any one religion either. For instance, I like the Christian conception of One Supreme God, but believe that the Buddhist belief of an after-life as reincarnation is more reasonable than heaven or hell.

But why do I believe in a creator god? Nature. I can't walk in nature and accept that Humans created it. Something else did. The complexity and balance found in nature is truly astounding. I cannot accept that this system of order formed naturally out of a Universe ruled by Chaos. Can order come from chaos without intervention? If so, then maybe I just need to read that theory or proof. Because at this point, I don't believe that it does. At the same time though, it's hard to say if there is a creator god because I believe in the concept of oneness or that everything is connected and god can be found within each of us.

It's very confusing. A path I am still trying to forge out of this cluster-fvck of ideas and religions currently found in this world. If anything, I'd say that *for now* I identify most with Unitarian Universalism.

Not to be pedantic, but within the foursquare system, you would be an "agnostic theist"--that is, you don't make knowledge claims about god, but believe him to exist. So the foursquare fits. You can reject it if you want, though--I mean, that's your prerogative. It's all about how useful these linguistic pointers are.

Have you considered deism?

Yeah, I think deism is a better fit for me than theism. But can you be an agnostic deist or is that not in the foursquare system? Also, in case I missed it last time, how can a subset hold the same weight as the set it comes from i.e., belief = knowledge? I thought if one comes from the other that they wouldn't be equal or comparable. I think you said previously that knowledge comes from belief... so how can we compare that which comes from something else on equal grounds?

Also incidentally, yes, order can come from chaos without intervention. That's one of the big points of chaos theory, really. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Just finished reading that page, as well as two other links I found when googling can order come from chaos. Seems to me like these theories have yet to be proven true by science. From what I gather, it is theoretically possible based on four conditions occurring, but every article has said that it's yet to fully solve the issue. Should I start a thread of this nature in the science and philosophy forums? I'd like to talk about this some more if possible.
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7/14/2014 8:33:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 12:45:11 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I believe in a creator god, but I don't believe this god plays an active role in these modern times. For me, God = Original Cause.

I think that you are an agnostic theist. Why don't you accept that one if you believe in god.
If you believe in god, you are a theist.
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7/14/2014 8:33:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 7:57:22 PM, skinker wrote:
POPOO, I'd really appreciate it if you wouldn't proselytize totalitarian fascism on Debate boards. We don't need more religious fascists creating havoc in our world than we already have. Your ideology pretends to be of God but it isn't. It never was, as your idol Muhammad didn't know what he was about stealing our Jewish myths of origin and trying to claim them for himself and his idea of god, Allah. Archeological science has debunked the myths Muhammad used as foundation for his fascist religious belief system and so why are you promoting false religion and fascism on Debate boards? We don't want to learn how to be moral cretins who can't tell right from wrong which is what Muhammad teaches you Muslims so that you end up as killers of even school girls as you make a mockery of real spirituality and real relationship with God.

What path do you follow?
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bladerunner060
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7/14/2014 8:37:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/14/2014 8:32:31 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Yeah, I think deism is a better fit for me than theism. But can you be an agnostic deist or is that not in the foursquare system?

Lol...Well, linguistic things are often imperfect. I suppose it could be considered a form of agnostic theism..."deism" refers to a particular sort of god. Or we could avoid theism/atheism altogether and use entitest and nonentitest or something...

Also, in case I missed it last time, how can a subset hold the same weight as the set it comes from i.e., belief = knowledge?

I still disagree that it's being given the same weight.

One part of the foursquare is addressing WHAT you believe, the other is addressing whether you think that belief is knowledge or not.

I thought if one comes from the other that they wouldn't be equal or comparable. I think you said previously that knowledge comes from belief... so how can we compare that which comes from something else on equal grounds?

See above for my own position...it seems like you're thinking "One addresses belief, one addresses knowledge, therefore they're being treated equivalently". I'm more saying that saying what your BELIEF is necessarily encompasses knowledge, if you think you know, and the second term indicates whether you know it or not.

Also incidentally, yes, order can come from chaos without intervention. That's one of the big points of chaos theory, really. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Just finished reading that page, as well as two other links I found when googling can order come from chaos. Seems to me like these theories have yet to be proven true by science. From what I gather, it is theoretically possible based on four conditions occurring, but every article has said that it's yet to fully solve the issue. Should I start a thread of this nature in the science and philosophy forums? I'd like to talk about this some more if possible.

I'd be happy to, and I'd want to focus on asking what you mean by "yet to be proven true by science".
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