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Faith in God

Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

1 Samuel 26:23 "The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness, for the LORD gave you into my hand today, and I would not put out my hand against the LORD"s anointed."

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If you can't trust God and keep up with the excuses "oh but God what about this? What about that? I'm too afraid, what if i die? What if i don't make it?" God will offer his Word, but eventually, he's going to say "you know what, you want to focus on that? And this? Go head, stay there to die and don't make it, Good bye (fill in the blank) i'm going to reward the faithful." Those who are faithful to God make it, those who don't die off. Just look at these examples:

Eve lacked faith in God (Gen. 3)
Israel lacked faith in God (Exo. 17:7)
When Moses went up on Mount Sinai, Israel gave up and fell into sin (Exod. 32:2-10)
Israel lacked faith in the wilderness and died (Hebrews 3:7-19)

This is why Israel failed to enter God's rest and this is exactly what will happen to anyone who lacks faith because all who want to be helped will cry out to Jesus for salvation

Rom. 10:13 "For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/15/2014 11:04:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

1 Samuel 26:23 "The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness, for the LORD gave you into my hand today, and I would not put out my hand against the LORD"s anointed."

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If you can't trust God and keep up with the excuses "oh but God what about this? What about that? I'm too afraid, what if i die? What if i don't make it?" God will offer his Word, but eventually, he's going to say "you know what, you want to focus on that? And this? Go head, stay there to die and don't make it, Good bye (fill in the blank) i'm going to reward the faithful." Those who are faithful to God make it, those who don't die off. Just look at these examples:

Eve lacked faith in God (Gen. 3)
Israel lacked faith in God (Exo. 17:7)
When Moses went up on Mount Sinai, Israel gave up and fell into sin (Exod. 32:2-10)
Israel lacked faith in the wilderness and died (Hebrews 3:7-19)

This is why Israel failed to enter God's rest and this is exactly what will happen to anyone who lacks faith because all who want to be helped will cry out to Jesus for salvation

Rom. 10:13 "For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Everyone will bow down to the Lord when their body ( flesh ) is killed during this age. Over 7 billion flesh of men will bow down to the earth on the day of the Lord.

Psalm 22:
25: From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.

The flesh bows down to the earth when it perishes but the spirit of man remains in God forever and gets new flesh to experience life with in the new Heaven and Earth that's coming soon.
Floid
Posts: 751
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7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.
Brendan21
Posts: 294
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7/15/2014 11:31:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

1 Samuel 26:23 "The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness, for the LORD gave you into my hand today, and I would not put out my hand against the LORD"s anointed."

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If you can't trust God and keep up with the excuses "oh but God what about this? What about that? I'm too afraid, what if i die? What if i don't make it?" God will offer his Word, but eventually, he's going to say "you know what, you want to focus on that? And this? Go head, stay there to die and don't make it, Good bye (fill in the blank) i'm going to reward the faithful." Those who are faithful to God make it, those who don't die off. Just look at these examples:

Eve lacked faith in God (Gen. 3)
Israel lacked faith in God (Exo. 17:7)
When Moses went up on Mount Sinai, Israel gave up and fell into sin (Exod. 32:2-10)
Israel lacked faith in the wilderness and died (Hebrews 3:7-19)

This is why Israel failed to enter God's rest and this is exactly what will happen to anyone who lacks faith because all who want to be helped will cry out to Jesus for salvation

Rom. 10:13 "For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

The problem isn't that faithful people are the only ones that get help from God, its those that believe in him and still get screwed over in some way shape or form, which happens everyday all day. People starve to death while believing in God, waiting for him to give them substance; among many many other horrible things that happen to believers and non-believers alike.
A even truer problem is pre-hand knowledge of God, or rather the lack of knowledge of the "True Faith," when people are born into various other religious sectors of the planet and grow up believing in something else. Is it fair for God to expect ALL these people to convert after learning of Christianity years later if they ever even do at all?
Believing in something is fine, saying its the only path is not, and a religious minded person has to be extremely careful not to allow a personal belief tot thier pollute judgement and deductive reasoning.
Brendan21
Posts: 294
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7/15/2014 11:32:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.

He is referring to Hell, and he is correct in torture, but not of the body but of the soul.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/15/2014 11:36:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:32:55 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.

He is referring to Hell, and he is correct in torture, but not of the body but of the soul.

You, him and all Christians are totally deceived by reading the new testament that antichrists and false prophets put together. After adding all their religious ideas to some ideas they stole from God's saints, they eventually had enough writings to produce the new testament that can't lead anyone to the Truth.
Brendan21
Posts: 294
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7/15/2014 11:40:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:36:09 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:32:55 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.

He is referring to Hell, and he is correct in torture, but not of the body but of the soul.

You, him and all Christians are totally deceived by reading the new testament that antichrists and false prophets put together. After adding all their religious ideas to some ideas they stole from God's saints, they eventually had enough writings to produce the new testament that can't lead anyone to the Truth.

What truth are you talking about if I may ask? BTW I'm agnostic, not Christian, and I personally believe that Christianity makes no sense at all. And I am also very aware of the New Testaments origins.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/15/2014 11:42:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:40:22 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:36:09 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:32:55 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.

He is referring to Hell, and he is correct in torture, but not of the body but of the soul.

You, him and all Christians are totally deceived by reading the new testament that antichrists and false prophets put together. After adding all their religious ideas to some ideas they stole from God's saints, they eventually had enough writings to produce the new testament that can't lead anyone to the Truth.

What truth are you talking about if I may ask? BTW I'm agnostic, not Christian, and I personally believe that Christianity makes no sense at all. And I am also very aware of the New Testaments origins.

Truth is a symbolic name of our invisible Creator and His thoughts where we all exist as a dream.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/15/2014 11:47:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:42:06 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:40:22 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:36:09 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:32:55 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.

He is referring to Hell, and he is correct in torture, but not of the body but of the soul.

You, him and all Christians are totally deceived by reading the new testament that antichrists and false prophets put together. After adding all their religious ideas to some ideas they stole from God's saints, they eventually had enough writings to produce the new testament that can't lead anyone to the Truth.

What truth are you talking about if I may ask? BTW I'm agnostic, not Christian, and I personally believe that Christianity makes no sense at all. And I am also very aware of the New Testaments origins.

Truth is a symbolic name of our invisible Creator and His thoughts where we all exist as a dream.

Who said God has dreams?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Brendan21
Posts: 294
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7/15/2014 11:48:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:42:06 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:40:22 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:36:09 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:32:55 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.

He is referring to Hell, and he is correct in torture, but not of the body but of the soul.

You, him and all Christians are totally deceived by reading the new testament that antichrists and false prophets put together. After adding all their religious ideas to some ideas they stole from God's saints, they eventually had enough writings to produce the new testament that can't lead anyone to the Truth.

What truth are you talking about if I may ask? BTW I'm agnostic, not Christian, and I personally believe that Christianity makes no sense at all. And I am also very aware of the New Testaments origins.

Truth is a symbolic name of our invisible Creator and His thoughts where we all exist as a dream.

Interesting, however, just like any other Deity or religious idea, it is impossible to prove, and therefore should not be accepted as the whole truth.
I'm also curious where your belief in God started, who these true God saints were, how they stole anything from any other religion, why you refer to new testament writers as "antichrist" when your religion apparently does no believe in such a thing, and who was the true prophet if all the others were fake.
PureX
Posts: 1,527
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7/15/2014 12:01:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

We've already gotten everything we have, and most everything we need from God for free. I don't see having faith in God as an expression of supplication. I see it as an expression of gratitude.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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7/15/2014 1:25:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 12:01:58 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

We've already gotten everything we have, and most everything we need from God for free. I don't see having faith in God as an expression of supplication. I see it as an expression of gratitude.

May I ask what religion or beliefs you embrace?

An expression of gratitude is an expression of thankfulness, this really has no part in what faith is namely because of it's function, of course gratitude plays a huge role in spiritual elements however it's only a vehicle to obtain them. Faith is not merely "gratitude" it has it's own meaning.
Faith in scripture is specific, it is an element a believer uses in their life to trust God for a particular outcome. A crude example would be say your friend calls you up and asks you to meet them at the mall, faith is to move upon the knowledge that you acquired that your friend will indeed meet you where they said, likewise to doubt what your friend had offered is the opposite and if you decide to second guess your friend and not move , then faith is relinquished and nothing is accomplished. Faith is more than some expression, it is an action, a belief or confidence to move forward in knowledge.
I know there are different usages for the word faith and the level of faith differs from person to person, however faith in the Biblical sense is to trust God in His ability.... Faith could also be described in a sense as obedience, to obey God for a result.

"Faith in Christianity is a central notion taught by Jesus Christ himself in reference to the Good News (cf. Mk 1:15). In the understanding of Jesus it was an act of trust and of self-abandonment by which people no longer rely on their own strength and policies but commit themselves to the power and guiding word of him in whom they believe."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

1 Corinthians 2
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Luke 8
And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

Hebrews 11
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Matthew 17
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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7/15/2014 2:47:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

1 Samuel 26:23 "The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness, for the LORD gave you into my hand today, and I would not put out my hand against the LORD"s anointed."

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If you can't trust God and keep up with the excuses "oh but God what about this? What about that? I'm too afraid, what if i die? What if i don't make it?" God will offer his Word, but eventually, he's going to say "you know what, you want to focus on that? And this? Go head, stay there to die and don't make it, Good bye (fill in the blank) i'm going to reward the faithful." Those who are faithful to God make it, those who don't die off. Just look at these examples:

Eve lacked faith in God (Gen. 3)
Israel lacked faith in God (Exo. 17:7)
When Moses went up on Mount Sinai, Israel gave up and fell into sin (Exod. 32:2-10)
Israel lacked faith in the wilderness and died (Hebrews 3:7-19)

This is why Israel failed to enter God's rest and this is exactly what will happen to anyone who lacks faith because all who want to be helped will cry out to Jesus for salvation

Rom. 10:13 "For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Funny that this did not come up in the "contradictions" thread (I didn't think of it, myself...). Here's your most glaring conceptual NT contradiction:

Matthew 7:21-23:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rom. 10:13:
"For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Which one should we believe? Whichever one happens to be convenient to the point you are trying to make, at the time you are trying to make it?
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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7/15/2014 2:53:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 2:47:03 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

1 Samuel 26:23 "The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness, for the LORD gave you into my hand today, and I would not put out my hand against the LORD"s anointed."

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If you can't trust God and keep up with the excuses "oh but God what about this? What about that? I'm too afraid, what if i die? What if i don't make it?" God will offer his Word, but eventually, he's going to say "you know what, you want to focus on that? And this? Go head, stay there to die and don't make it, Good bye (fill in the blank) i'm going to reward the faithful." Those who are faithful to God make it, those who don't die off. Just look at these examples:

Eve lacked faith in God (Gen. 3)
Israel lacked faith in God (Exo. 17:7)
When Moses went up on Mount Sinai, Israel gave up and fell into sin (Exod. 32:2-10)
Israel lacked faith in the wilderness and died (Hebrews 3:7-19)

This is why Israel failed to enter God's rest and this is exactly what will happen to anyone who lacks faith because all who want to be helped will cry out to Jesus for salvation

Rom. 10:13 "For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Funny that this did not come up in the "contradictions" thread (I didn't think of it, myself...). Here's your most glaring conceptual NT contradiction:

Matthew 7:21-23:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rom. 10:13:
"For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Which one should we believe? Whichever one happens to be convenient to the point you are trying to make, at the time you are trying to make it?

Excuse me IG, the distinction is obedience, everyone who calls on the Lord will be saved, BUT, will they abide in that light...
https://www.biblegateway.com...
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/15/2014 3:44:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

And yet, no Christian today has faith in God. They have faith in the 4th century council who crafted the orthodox version of Christianity, and the Christian God.

Do you trust the words of Jesus? How can you when you don't have the words of Jesus? Did you think your Bible contained actual quotations of Jesus? Not on your life! You have the writings of non-witnesses, based on oral traditions, copying and imagination, as selected by the men of the council in the fourth century... almost 300-years after the time Jesus was said to have existed.

None of you trust in God because you have nothing from God in which to place your trust. Everything you have in your Bible... everything you think you know about God... came from the men of the 4th century who decided for you, what you would believe, which of the many versions of Jesus you would accept, what writings you would hold to be true, and everything Christianity was to be.

And these men were in such disagreement about what was true, what wasn't, who Jesus was, whether he existed on Earth or not, and what should be included in the Bible, that it took them 42-years to finish cherry-picking the writings to find the things THEY preferred (slavery, infanticide, genocide, misogyny, etc.).
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/15/2014 3:46:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.

Provide evidence that the spirit exists.

The only invisible part of man is his breath (in temperate weather), and farts.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/15/2014 3:52:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 12:01:58 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

We've already gotten everything we have, and most everything we need from God for free. I don't see having faith in God as an expression of supplication. I see it as an expression of gratitude.

Do you have any more evidence that you have received anything from God, than you do to support the claim that you received things from Daffy Duck and the Great Green Space Monkey?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/15/2014 3:58:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 2:47:03 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

1 Samuel 26:23 "The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness, for the LORD gave you into my hand today, and I would not put out my hand against the LORD"s anointed."

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If you can't trust God and keep up with the excuses "oh but God what about this? What about that? I'm too afraid, what if i die? What if i don't make it?" God will offer his Word, but eventually, he's going to say "you know what, you want to focus on that? And this? Go head, stay there to die and don't make it, Good bye (fill in the blank) i'm going to reward the faithful." Those who are faithful to God make it, those who don't die off. Just look at these examples:

Eve lacked faith in God (Gen. 3)
Israel lacked faith in God (Exo. 17:7)
When Moses went up on Mount Sinai, Israel gave up and fell into sin (Exod. 32:2-10)
Israel lacked faith in the wilderness and died (Hebrews 3:7-19)

This is why Israel failed to enter God's rest and this is exactly what will happen to anyone who lacks faith because all who want to be helped will cry out to Jesus for salvation

Rom. 10:13 "For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Funny that this did not come up in the "contradictions" thread (I didn't think of it, myself...). Here's your most glaring conceptual NT contradiction:

Matthew 7:21-23:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rom. 10:13:
"For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Which one should we believe? Whichever one happens to be convenient to the point you are trying to make, at the time you are trying to make it?

The problem is that you're reading the words. If you'll follow the instruction of the Christians here, they'll show you how to completely ignore the words and read into the verses, only what you wish to find there. Then you will see how the contradiction simply melts away. When it says "every one" you probably take it to mean "everyone". It doesn't mean that at all. It means... something else, something different to every Christian who reads it. Because the trick to reading the Bible as a true Christian, is to re-write each word to your specific tastes, the moment before you encounter the word. Otherwise, you will commit the blasphemy of actually reading the Bible, rather than writing your own version as you flip through the pages.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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7/15/2014 4:03:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 2:53:58 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 2:47:03 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

1 Samuel 26:23 "The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness, for the LORD gave you into my hand today, and I would not put out my hand against the LORD"s anointed."

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If you can't trust God and keep up with the excuses "oh but God what about this? What about that? I'm too afraid, what if i die? What if i don't make it?" God will offer his Word, but eventually, he's going to say "you know what, you want to focus on that? And this? Go head, stay there to die and don't make it, Good bye (fill in the blank) i'm going to reward the faithful." Those who are faithful to God make it, those who don't die off. Just look at these examples:

Eve lacked faith in God (Gen. 3)
Israel lacked faith in God (Exo. 17:7)
When Moses went up on Mount Sinai, Israel gave up and fell into sin (Exod. 32:2-10)
Israel lacked faith in the wilderness and died (Hebrews 3:7-19)

This is why Israel failed to enter God's rest and this is exactly what will happen to anyone who lacks faith because all who want to be helped will cry out to Jesus for salvation

Rom. 10:13 "For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Funny that this did not come up in the "contradictions" thread (I didn't think of it, myself...). Here's your most glaring conceptual NT contradiction:

Matthew 7:21-23:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rom. 10:13:
"For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Which one should we believe? Whichever one happens to be convenient to the point you are trying to make, at the time you are trying to make it?

Excuse me IG, the distinction is obedience, everyone who calls on the Lord will be saved, BUT, will they abide in that light...
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Did you even read Rom 10:13? C'mon... what does it say? I don't want some silly Christian interpretation. I want you to tell me what the WORDS say. And I have news for you, the author of "John" didn't write "Romans" so you can't gain an understanding of "Romans" by reading "John". If you want to understand "Romans", you have to read "Romans".

All you're doing is throwing additional contradiction into the mix. It's amazing how many Christians find a verse they don't like, and then go in search of a contradicting verse that they do like. And then they insist the Bible doesn't contain any contradictions.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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7/15/2014 4:04:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 4:00:50 PM, alex_heat wrote:
I have faith in god to make me a sandwich

I believe that would be a "spamich".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
matt.mcguire88
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7/15/2014 4:14:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 4:03:33 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/15/2014 2:53:58 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 2:47:03 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

1 Samuel 26:23 "The LORD rewards every man for his righteousness and his faithfulness, for the LORD gave you into my hand today, and I would not put out my hand against the LORD"s anointed."

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If you can't trust God and keep up with the excuses "oh but God what about this? What about that? I'm too afraid, what if i die? What if i don't make it?" God will offer his Word, but eventually, he's going to say "you know what, you want to focus on that? And this? Go head, stay there to die and don't make it, Good bye (fill in the blank) i'm going to reward the faithful." Those who are faithful to God make it, those who don't die off. Just look at these examples:

Eve lacked faith in God (Gen. 3)
Israel lacked faith in God (Exo. 17:7)
When Moses went up on Mount Sinai, Israel gave up and fell into sin (Exod. 32:2-10)
Israel lacked faith in the wilderness and died (Hebrews 3:7-19)

This is why Israel failed to enter God's rest and this is exactly what will happen to anyone who lacks faith because all who want to be helped will cry out to Jesus for salvation

Rom. 10:13 "For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Funny that this did not come up in the "contradictions" thread (I didn't think of it, myself...). Here's your most glaring conceptual NT contradiction:

Matthew 7:21-23:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rom. 10:13:
"For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Which one should we believe? Whichever one happens to be convenient to the point you are trying to make, at the time you are trying to make it?

Excuse me IG, the distinction is obedience, everyone who calls on the Lord will be saved, BUT, will they abide in that light...
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Did you even read Rom 10:13? C'mon... what does it say? I don't want some silly Christian interpretation. I want you to tell me what the WORDS say. And I have news for you, the author of "John" didn't write "Romans" so you can't gain an understanding of "Romans" by reading "John". If you want to understand "Romans", you have to read "Romans".

All you're doing is throwing additional contradiction into the mix. It's amazing how many Christians find a verse they don't like, and then go in search of a contradicting verse that they do like. And then they insist the Bible doesn't contain any contradictions.

That's the problem with you Beastt, you assert, you assume, you blame, accuse, label, stereotype, discriminate and you lack cognitive reading skills. Mostly because of your anger and your bias.

I DO NOT, adjust my beliefs based upon the misunderstandings of morons, rather my beliefs are developed through understanding and application, you could only flatter yourself to believe otherwise, I feel sorry for you that you are guided by your own ignorance.
Maybe you think that someone "who calls upon the Lord" at one time and then goes and disobeys God by whatever means and you assume that one passage alleviates God's judgement...you are a fool. Everything I quoted and said is right on point and you can't handle it so you are gonna throw your little tantrum because it makes sense and you don't want it to.
Beastt
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7/15/2014 4:38:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 4:14:58 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 4:03:33 PM, Beastt wrote:

Did you even read Rom 10:13? C'mon... what does it say? I don't want some silly Christian interpretation. I want you to tell me what the WORDS say. And I have news for you, the author of "John" didn't write "Romans" so you can't gain an understanding of "Romans" by reading "John". If you want to understand "Romans", you have to read "Romans".

All you're doing is throwing additional contradiction into the mix. It's amazing how many Christians find a verse they don't like, and then go in search of a contradicting verse that they do like. And then they insist the Bible doesn't contain any contradictions.

That's the problem with you Beastt, you assert, you assume, you blame, accuse, label, stereotype, discriminate and you lack cognitive reading skills. Mostly because of your anger and your bias.

I DO NOT, adjust my beliefs based upon the misunderstandings of morons, rather my beliefs are developed through understanding and application, you could only flatter yourself to believe otherwise, I feel sorry for you that you are guided by your own ignorance.
Maybe you think that someone "who calls upon the Lord" at one time and then goes and disobeys God by whatever means and you assume that one passage alleviates God's judgement...you are a fool. Everything I quoted and said is right on point and you can't handle it so you are gonna throw your little tantrum because it makes sense and you don't want it to.

... To you and the horse you rode in on, Matt.

Show me where I've assumed anything. Show me who I've blamed and for what. Who did I accuse without cause to accuse? And what leads you to the believe that I lack cognitive reading skills.

It's one thing to levy a slew of insults, and quite another to support them... which explains why you failed to provide support for any of the insults and accusations you thrust upon me. It seems to make you feel better about yourself, to unjustly accuse others.

Nothing you quoted or said has anything to do with the contradiction presented. The contradiction is between a verse in "Romans" and a verse in "Matthew". It's not even the same author that you quoted. So next time you want to address a proposed contradiction between "Matthew" and "Romans", you have to stick to "Matthew" and "Romans". I can certainly find a fairytale such as "Peter Pan" where fairies are shown to be quite small, and other fairytales written by other authors who claim they're quite large. But it's not a singular message, and neither one takes precedence over the other.

In all, you have insulted me, you've claimed my intellect is lacking, you've suggested that I'm unfair because I hold religion to the same standards as any other claim to truth, and you have claimed that I'm ignorant. Perhaps I should challenge you to a formal debate in regard to religious knowledge. The only problem with that is that almost nobody has met the requirements to be allowed to vote. So in the end, it's less useful than the standard forum. But I assure you, if you think I'm ignorant and that you possess greater knowledge in regard to religion and Christianity in particular, you're living in a dream world on more counts than was already demonstrated.

Next time you wish to refute me... refute me! At least take a shot at it. That string of accusations and insults does nothing except to demonstrate your lack of ability to support the claims you make.

NOW... care to address the contradiction in "Romans" and "Matthew", or will your sideways evasion come from an episode of "Battlestar Galatica" this time?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
matt.mcguire88
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7/15/2014 5:55:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 4:38:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/15/2014 4:14:58 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 4:03:33 PM, Beastt wrote:

Did you even read Rom 10:13? C'mon... what does it say? I don't want some silly Christian interpretation. I want you to tell me what the WORDS say. And I have news for you, the author of "John" didn't write "Romans" so you can't gain an understanding of "Romans" by reading "John". If you want to understand "Romans", you have to read "Romans".

All you're doing is throwing additional contradiction into the mix. It's amazing how many Christians find a verse they don't like, and then go in search of a contradicting verse that they do like. And then they insist the Bible doesn't contain any contradictions.

That's the problem with you Beastt, you assert, you assume, you blame, accuse, label, stereotype, discriminate and you lack cognitive reading skills. Mostly because of your anger and your bias.

I DO NOT, adjust my beliefs based upon the misunderstandings of morons, rather my beliefs are developed through understanding and application, you could only flatter yourself to believe otherwise, I feel sorry for you that you are guided by your own ignorance.
Maybe you think that someone "who calls upon the Lord" at one time and then goes and disobeys God by whatever means and you assume that one passage alleviates God's judgement...you are a fool. Everything I quoted and said is right on point and you can't handle it so you are gonna throw your little tantrum because it makes sense and you don't want it to.

... To you and the horse you rode in on, Matt.

Show me where I've assumed anything. Show me who I've blamed and for what. Who did I accuse without cause to accuse? And what leads you to the believe that I lack cognitive reading skills.

It's one thing to levy a slew of insults, and quite another to support them... which explains why you failed to provide support for any of the insults and accusations you thrust upon me. It seems to make you feel better about yourself, to unjustly accuse
others.

The truth speaks for itself, all anyone has to do is look at your history of posts, I need not go out of my way to quote all your disgusting habits, you know what you do. Almost every post I see of yours you are labeling and accusing theists of being liars and just making stuff up, now don't be a hypocrite by avoiding the truth.

Nothing you quoted or said has anything to do with the contradiction presented. The contradiction is between a verse in "Romans" and a verse in "Matthew". It's not even the same author that you quoted. So next time you want to address a proposed contradiction between "Matthew" and "Romans", you have to stick to "Matthew" and "Romans". I can certainly find a fairytale such as "Peter Pan" where fairies are shown to be quite small, and other fairytales written by other authors who claim they're quite large. But it's not a singular message, and neither one takes precedence over the other.

In all, you have insulted me, you've claimed my intellect is lacking, you've suggested that I'm unfair because I hold religion to the same standards as any other claim to truth, and you have claimed that I'm ignorant. Perhaps I should challenge you to a formal debate in regard to religious knowledge. The only problem with that is that almost nobody has met the requirements to be allowed to vote. So in the end, it's less useful than the standard forum. But I assure you, if you think I'm ignorant and that you possess greater knowledge in regard to religion and Christianity in particular, you're living in a dream world on more counts than was already demonstrated.

Next time you wish to refute me... refute me! At least take a shot at it. That string of accusations and insults does nothing except to demonstrate your lack of ability to support the claims you make.

NOW... care to address the contradiction in "Romans" and "Matthew", or will your sideways evasion come from an episode of "Battlestar Galatica" this time?

I don't need to repeat myself, all the logic and reasoning has been written, it is you that lacks cognitive reading skills and I need not justify anything to you, you are incapable of following simple concepts.
bornofgod
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7/15/2014 6:00:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 3:46:47 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:23:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:17:58 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

I am pretty sure it says that if you don't have faith in God you get eternal torture from him.

I assure you that you are absolutely incorrect.

The flesh ( visible part ) of man dies during this age. The spirit ( invisible part ) of man remains in the spirit of God after the flesh perishes. The spirit of man will get new flesh in the New Heaven and Earth that has yet to be experienced. The old flesh will never be used again because it's part of the visible earth that was melted into hot molten rocks during the day of the Lord.

Provide evidence that the spirit exists.

The only invisible part of man is his breath (in temperate weather), and farts.

I guess you don't know anything about quantum physics, do you? The word "spirit" is a symbolic word that means the invisible knowledge of God that's converted into invisible vibrations. A wavelength of a vibration is one bit of information, like a 0 and a 1 in a binary computer code. These vibrations are God's invisible language that no man can ever see. These vibrations have to be processed into languages and visible objects for us to experience life. Otherwise, we remain invisible and wouldn't get to know who we are in the mind of God.
PureX
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7/15/2014 6:44:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 3:52:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/15/2014 12:01:58 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

We've already gotten everything we have, and most everything we need from God for free. I don't see having faith in God as an expression of supplication. I see it as an expression of gratitude.

Do you have any more evidence that you have received anything from God, than you do to support the claim that you received things from Daffy Duck and the Great Green Space Monkey?

Faith is about trusting that something is true, without surety. So I don't really understand why you would ask me that question. This thread is about faith in God. I choose to have faith in God, as I understand God. It has nothing to do with what I think I know. And everything to do with what works for me in my life.
PureX
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7/15/2014 7:07:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 1:25:50 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 12:01:58 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

We've already gotten everything we have, and most everything we need from God for free. I don't see having faith in God as an expression of supplication. I see it as an expression of gratitude.

May I ask what religion or beliefs you embrace?

An expression of gratitude is an expression of thankfulness, this really has no part in what faith is namely because of it's function, of course gratitude plays a huge role in spiritual elements however it's only a vehicle to obtain them. Faith is not merely "gratitude" it has it's own meaning.
Faith in scripture is specific, it is an element a believer uses in their life to trust God for a particular outcome. A crude example would be say your friend calls you up and asks you to meet them at the mall, faith is to move upon the knowledge that you acquired that your friend will indeed meet you where they said, likewise to doubt what your friend had offered is the opposite and if you decide to second guess your friend and not move , then faith is relinquished and nothing is accomplished. Faith is more than some expression, it is an action, a belief or confidence to move forward in knowledge.

I agree that faith is not divorced from experience or the knowledge gained from our experiences. But the faith comes first. It is our choosing to trust in our knowledge because we know it's always going to be limited to a greater or lesser degree, and we can never be certain which. This is why I said that faith is not a pretense of certainty, as some religionists assert, but is in fact a matter of our uncertainty. Faith is choosing to trust in some vision of truth, in spite of our ignorance. And yes, the whole point of doing this is so that we can then ACT on it.

The atheist has just as much faith as the theist. He simply chooses to place his trust more in his grasp of material reality than in his grasp of spiritual reality.

I know there are different usages for the word faith and the level of faith differs from person to person, however faith in the Biblical sense is to trust God in His ability.... Faith could also be described in a sense as obedience, to obey God for a result.

I reject religion specifically because of it's inevitable propensity to become authoritarianism. But we agree in that faith, for me, essentially means trusting in God: trusting in the divine love, forgiveness, and generosity that I see being expressed all around me. This is why I say that for me, at least, faith is an expression of gratitude. Though, perhaps I should have said gratitude and hope.
Beastt
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7/15/2014 7:09:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 6:44:06 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/15/2014 3:52:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/15/2014 12:01:58 PM, PureX wrote:
At 7/15/2014 11:00:31 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
If you don't have faith in God, you won't get anything from God.

We've already gotten everything we have, and most everything we need from God for free. I don't see having faith in God as an expression of supplication. I see it as an expression of gratitude.

Do you have any more evidence that you have received anything from God, than you do to support the claim that you received things from Daffy Duck and the Great Green Space Monkey?

Faith is about trusting that something is true, without surety.
Then you do realize that having faith that you have receive anything from God is no more rational than having faith that you have received all you possess and utilize from Daffy Duck and the Great Green Space Monkey? What makes one form of faith any less irrational than any other?

So I don't really understand why you would ask me that question.
Because it's a valid question.

This thread is about faith in God. I choose to have faith in God, as I understand God. It has nothing to do with what I think I know. And everything to do with what works for me in my life.
Which is no different from the claims of people who would take their sick children to the village witch doctor, observe in great hope as the doctor might dance around wearing hideously carved masks and throwing powders and ashes across their dying offspring, and then later claim that they subscribed to the form of "medicine" which "works for them in their life", despite the death of their children, one-by-one.

And yet, if you have no evidence for it. any claim that "it works for you" is as devoid of credibility as the beliefs themselves. Perhaps what you mean to say is "you find it to be emotionally pacifying to believe the absurd"?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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7/15/2014 7:13:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/15/2014 5:55:01 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 4:38:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/15/2014 4:14:58 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 7/15/2014 4:03:33 PM, Beastt wrote:

Did you even read Rom 10:13? C'mon... what does it say? I don't want some silly Christian interpretation. I want you to tell me what the WORDS say. And I have news for you, the author of "John" didn't write "Romans" so you can't gain an understanding of "Romans" by reading "John". If you want to understand "Romans", you have to read "Romans".

All you're doing is throwing additional contradiction into the mix. It's amazing how many Christians find a verse they don't like, and then go in search of a contradicting verse that they do like. And then they insist the Bible doesn't contain any contradictions.

That's the problem with you Beastt, you assert, you assume, you blame, accuse, label, stereotype, discriminate and you lack cognitive reading skills. Mostly because of your anger and your bias.

I DO NOT, adjust my beliefs based upon the misunderstandings of morons, rather my beliefs are developed through understanding and application, you could only flatter yourself to believe otherwise, I feel sorry for you that you are guided by your own ignorance.
Maybe you think that someone "who calls upon the Lord" at one time and then goes and disobeys God by whatever means and you assume that one passage alleviates God's judgement...you are a fool. Everything I quoted and said is right on point and you can't handle it so you are gonna throw your little tantrum because it makes sense and you don't want it to.

... To you and the horse you rode in on, Matt.

Show me where I've assumed anything. Show me who I've blamed and for what. Who did I accuse without cause to accuse? And what leads you to the believe that I lack cognitive reading skills.

It's one thing to levy a slew of insults, and quite another to support them... which explains why you failed to provide support for any of the insults and accusations you thrust upon me. It seems to make you feel better about yourself, to unjustly accuse
others.

The truth speaks for itself, all anyone has to do is look at your history of posts, I need not go out of my way to quote all your disgusting habits, you know what you do. Almost every post I see of yours you are labeling and accusing theists of being liars and just making stuff up, now don't be a hypocrite by avoiding the truth.
In other words, you will present no substantiation for your allegations, because you know they're not true, and no substantiation exists. And I already knew that because I do "know what I do". And I also know what I don't do. And I don't do what you have alleged that I do. So let's have no more false allegations from you.

Nothing you quoted or said has anything to do with the contradiction presented. The contradiction is between a verse in "Romans" and a verse in "Matthew". It's not even the same author that you quoted. So next time you want to address a proposed contradiction between "Matthew" and "Romans", you have to stick to "Matthew" and "Romans". I can certainly find a fairytale such as "Peter Pan" where fairies are shown to be quite small, and other fairytales written by other authors who claim they're quite large. But it's not a singular message, and neither one takes precedence over the other.

In all, you have insulted me, you've claimed my intellect is lacking, you've suggested that I'm unfair because I hold religion to the same standards as any other claim to truth, and you have claimed that I'm ignorant. Perhaps I should challenge you to a formal debate in regard to religious knowledge. The only problem with that is that almost nobody has met the requirements to be allowed to vote. So in the end, it's less useful than the standard forum. But I assure you, if you think I'm ignorant and that you possess greater knowledge in regard to religion and Christianity in particular, you're living in a dream world on more counts than was already demonstrated.

Next time you wish to refute me... refute me! At least take a shot at it. That string of accusations and insults does nothing except to demonstrate your lack of ability to support the claims you make.

NOW... care to address the contradiction in "Romans" and "Matthew", or will your sideways evasion come from an episode of "Battlestar Galatica" this time?

I don't need to repeat myself, all the logic and reasoning has been written, it is you that lacks cognitive reading skills and I need not justify anything to you, you are incapable of following simple concepts.
You're simply repeating the same false allegations you've already failed to support. So do you intend to continue this debate on the basis of your lies which have already been exposed? Or are you going to try to show a little maturity?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire