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Faith, meaning. Meaning, faith.

GodSands
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2/25/2010 6:00:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Now, this is pretty interesting, it's one of those paradox scenarios, but a paradox, being self contradictory also making sense. So here it is...

To believe in God you must have faith because of the opposition being no God, which ruins the evidence for God existing. No two circumstance can both exist, God cannot exist and exist, either God does or does not. Simple as that.

There is faith in people who believe in God and faith inherits meaning to the universe. But meaning does not come from there being no God and without meaning there is no faith needed. However people do take faith in there being no God and therefore because there is faith in there being no God, that person must have another meaning behind why he/she does not believe in God. God causes there to be meaning to the universe because God created the universe, and by not believing in God, the person is really believing in something unknown which replaces God totally. Which means people have faith who do not believe in God, and because they have faith there is a meaning behind the non-existence of God, their meaning and faith that there is no God comes from the God that they do not believe in to have faith and therefore meaning that there is no God.

So to clarify:

1, God = meaning, meaning = faith, because meaning = God, God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of God)
2, No God = faith, faith = meaning, because no God = faith. (Believe there is faith because there is meaning)
3, Which makes more sense? Down to you.

(If any flaws or mistakes are spotted, let me know please. Thanks.)
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/25/2010 6:15:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 6:00:58 PM, GodSands wrote:
So to clarify:

1, God = meaning,

No.

meaning = faith,

No.

because meaning = God, God = faith.

No.

2, No God = faith,

No.

faith = meaning,

No.

because no God = faith.

No.

3, Which makes more sense? Down to you.

Neither.

(If any flaws or mistakes are spotted, let me know please. Thanks.)

Flaws are ubiquitous throughout the entire post.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GodSands
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2/25/2010 6:22:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/25/2010 6:15:50 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/25/2010 6:00:58 PM, GodSands wrote:
So to clarify:

1, God = meaning,

No.

meaning = faith,

No.

because meaning = God, God = faith.

No.

2, No God = faith,

No.

faith = meaning,

No.

because no God = faith.

No.

3, Which makes more sense? Down to you.

Neither.

(If any flaws or mistakes are spotted, let me know please. Thanks.)

Flaws are ubiquitous throughout the entire post.


Ok, you didn't undertstand.
GeoLaureate8
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2/25/2010 6:45:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 6:22:01 PM, GodSands wrote:
Ok, you didn't undertstand.

How does God = meaning? How does faith = meaning? Makes no sense.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GodSands
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2/25/2010 7:07:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/25/2010 6:45:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/25/2010 6:22:01 PM, GodSands wrote:
Ok, you didn't undertstand.

How does God = meaning? How does faith = meaning? Makes no sense.


Ok let me explain.

If someone believes in God, they believe that God created the universe, and there is meaning behind the existence of the universe and that is God. But because there is always that posibility of there being no God, one must have faith to believe in God. But why does someone not believe in God? Because they have faith that there is no meaning, but faith comes with meaning, because faith inherits meaning, you do not have faith in nothing at all. So there is a meaning why atheists do not believe in God, and it isn't because there isn't any proof for God since the proof for God creates proof that there is no God. So atheists believe there is no God but they have faith there is no meaning, but faith is caused by there being a meaning but God causes there to be meaning, and faith causes there to be meaning so meaning causes there to be God. So atheists are using the faith to create a meaning why there isn't a God, but only God creates a meaning, and that meaning is God. The universe was created by God or was not, but if not by God, what? By meaning perhaps? Because faith inherits meaning, you have to havce faith that there is a meaning behind the universe and that meaning is God. But atheists don't believe in God because they have faith in a meaning which there is no God. But the meaning of the universe comes from its creator, which is God.

So do I need to explain anymore?
mattrodstrom
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2/25/2010 7:09:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
"meaning" comes from caring, caring comes from our nature.

"Meaning" goes along with Humanity.

It doesn't require or rely on God.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GodSands
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2/25/2010 7:12:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/25/2010 7:09:02 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
"meaning" comes from caring, caring comes from our nature.

"Meaning" goes along with Humanity.

It doesn't require or rely on God.


Our caring is meaningless, really if there is no God. It comes from our own judgment, until we figure out if there is a God or not, then we will know if our caring is meaningful or not.
mattrodstrom
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2/25/2010 7:20:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 7:12:47 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/25/2010 7:09:02 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
"meaning" comes from caring, caring comes from our nature.

"Meaning" goes along with Humanity.

It doesn't require or rely on God.


Our caring is meaningless, really if there is no God. It comes from our own judgment, until we figure out if there is a God or not, then we will know if our caring is meaningful or not.

You could say the same thing about God. why is his "Caring" somehow more meaningful??
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Danielle
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2/25/2010 7:21:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 6:00:58 PM, GodSands wrote:
Now, this is pretty interesting, it's one of those paradox scenarios, but a paradox, being self contradictory also making sense. So here it is...

To believe in God you must have faith because of the opposition being no God, which ruins the evidence for God existing. No two circumstance can both exist, God cannot exist and exist, either God does or does not. Simple as that.

There is faith in people who believe in God and faith inherits meaning to the universe. But meaning does not come from there being no God and without meaning there is no faith needed.

Here's your first mistake. You assume that if there is no God, there is no meaning to life (or anything). However there are various other spiritual and scientific beliefs that people have, and we have no reason to accept your opinion over others.

However people do take faith in there being no God and therefore because there is faith in there being no God, that person must have another meaning behind why he/she does not believe in God. God causes there to be meaning to the universe because God created the universe, and by not believing in God, the person is really believing in something unknown which replaces God totally.

I get what you're saying - but you're still totally wrong. You're saying that people who have faith that God doesn't exist have faith, ie. meaning behind their decision. Again, though, you're attributing reason or meaning to God when there are alternative options. Just because God offers one explanation of existence, meaning, etc. doesn't mean that God is the "right" answer.

Which means people have faith who do not believe in God, and because they have faith there is a meaning behind the non-existence of God, their meaning and faith that there is no God comes from the God that they do not believe in to have faith and therefore meaning that there is no God.

... They have faith that God doesn't exist. The meaning behind the non-existence of God would be some other answer (for existence). Simple as that.

So to clarify:

1, God = meaning, meaning = faith, because meaning = God, God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of God)
2, No God = faith, faith = meaning, because no God = faith. (Believe there is faith because there is meaning)
3, Which makes more sense? Down to you.

(If any flaws or mistakes are spotted, let me know please. Thanks.)

Fallacy after fallacy.
President of DDO
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/25/2010 7:34:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/25/2010 7:20:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/25/2010 7:12:47 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/25/2010 7:09:02 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
"meaning" comes from caring, caring comes from our nature.

"Meaning" goes along with Humanity.

It doesn't require or rely on God.


Our caring is meaningless, really if there is no God. It comes from our own judgment, until we figure out if there is a God or not, then we will know if our caring is meaningful or not.

You could say the same thing about God. why is his "Caring" somehow more meaningful??


Caring maybe meaningful and I believe in is, but if there is no God then really it isn't at all. Or what you can also say, is it is meaningful because there is no God. But it is based around God whether if it is meaningful or not. And you have to decide if you believe in God first or not.
GodSands
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2/25/2010 7:42:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Here's your first mistake. You assume that if there is no God, there is no meaning to life (or anything). However there are various other spiritual and scientific beliefs that people have, and we have no reason to accept your opinion over others.

God, gods, spirits, whatever, supernatural, either one is in control. Only one is in control. If God isn't then God would not be God, if there are gods then they are equally in charge. Etc..This however is about faith and meaning and a creator, I used God. Its not about 'What type of religion are we talking here?'

I get what you're saying - but you're still totally wrong. You're saying that people who have faith that God doesn't exist have faith, ie. meaning behind their decision. Again, though, you're attributing reason or meaning to God when there are alternative options. Just because God offers one explanation of existence, meaning, etc. doesn't mean that God is the "right" answer.

Again this forum isn't about dicussing what religion is right or wrong, but about faith, meaning and the creator, I used God since I believe in a single entity the Christian God.

Fallacy after fallacy.

Thats been said. :)
Volkov
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2/25/2010 7:54:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 7:34:54 PM, GodSands wrote:
Caring maybe meaningful and I believe in is, but if there is no God then really it isn't at all. Or what you can also say, is it is meaningful because there is no God. But it is based around God whether if it is meaningful or not. And you have to decide if you believe in God first or not.

I... how.... what the f*ck is this?

You're saying that there is no meaning without God, but you say that the idea that it is meaningful without God is alright. But then you say meaning is based around God anyways, and ask us to believe in God, which fails because if meaning was based around God, you could not only "believe" in God, you would have no other choice, because you would have no meaning.

My head hurts.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/25/2010 7:56:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
GodSands, if you truly sit down and think about it, you'll find that God and religion is utterly meaningless. You cling to these false ideas that seem appealing to you, but they have no meaning. The only thing it means is this:

"[Religious belief] is a totalitarian belief. It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you - who must, indeed, subject you - to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life - I say, of your life - before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead." - Christopher Hitchins
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/25/2010 11:33:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 6:00:58 PM, GodSands wrote:

So to clarify:


Your English is awkward and you are trolling. Is that enough clarification for you?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Floid
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2/26/2010 4:27:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I will just answer your clarify since it is more clearly stated.

1, God = meaning

Which isn't true, many people find meaning without God or in different gods.

meaning = faith

Faith means believing something you don't have sufficient evidence to prove. Meaning has absolutely nothing to do with it.

because meaning = God, God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of God)

False based on a complete disregard of the meaning of faith and the baseless assumptiont hat God = meaning.

The rest pretty much follows that. Ignoring the definition of words and applying them however you see fit does not create a paradox.
tkubok
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2/26/2010 6:22:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 6:00:58 PM, GodSands wrote:
1, God = meaning, meaning = faith, because meaning = God, God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of God)
2, No God = faith, faith = meaning, because no God = faith. (Believe there is faith because there is meaning)
3, Which makes more sense? Down to you.

(If any flaws or mistakes are spotted, let me know please. Thanks.)

This is the problem with your argument.

You are carrying over something in Point 1, that you could not carry, into point 2.

And that something, is the "Faith = meaning" nonsense.

lets try to reiterate point number 2 so that we may better identify the fallacy.

2, No God = meaning, meaning = faith, because meaning = no God, no God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of no God)

See the mistake? There is no meaning in something that doesnt exist. I cannot find meaning in unicorns, for example. This is why your argument fails. yet this is the conclusion you seem to be drawing from your point.
GodSands
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2/26/2010 9:52:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/25/2010 7:56:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
GodSands, if you truly sit down and think about it, you'll find that God and religion is utterly meaningless. You cling to these false ideas that seem appealing to you, but they have no meaning. The only thing it means is this:

"[Religious belief] is a totalitarian belief. It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you - who must, indeed, subject you - to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life - I say, of your life - before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead." - Christopher Hitchins


You are either a slave to evilness or to goodness. And God is your Master whome is perfect in all ways. I couldn't care what Christopher Hitchins has to say. He does not see there are two side to everything.
GodSands
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2/26/2010 9:55:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/25/2010 7:54:43 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/25/2010 7:34:54 PM, GodSands wrote:
Caring maybe meaningful and I believe in is, but if there is no God then really it isn't at all. Or what you can also say, is it is meaningful because there is no God. But it is based around God whether if it is meaningful or not. And you have to decide if you believe in God first or not.

I... how.... what the f*ck is this?

You're saying that there is no meaning without God, but you say that the idea that it is meaningful without God is alright. But then you say meaning is based around God anyways, and ask us to believe in God, which fails because if meaning was based around God, you could not only "believe" in God, you would have no other choice, because you would have no meaning.

My head hurts.


Yes, you are right, in otherwords you are denying yourself.
mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 10:00:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 9:52:12 AM, GodSands wrote:

You are either a slave to evilness or to goodness. And God is your Master whome is perfect in all ways. I couldn't care what Christopher Hitchins has to say. He does not see there are two side to everything.

I suppose you could say I am a slave to my nature.

But I don't see where you get the whole slave to Evil or Good...

I thought in christian Dogma, Evil is but a relative lack of good (lack of God)... and that one had free will to choose whether you take the highest path or not.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/26/2010 10:24:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think a lot of people need to quit having faith that any topic by Godsands will have any real meaning.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
GodSands
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2/26/2010 10:30:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/26/2010 6:22:13 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2010 6:00:58 PM, GodSands wrote:
1, God = meaning, meaning = faith, because meaning = God, God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of God)
2, No God = faith, faith = meaning, because no God = faith. (Believe there is faith because there is meaning)
3, Which makes more sense? Down to you.

(If any flaws or mistakes are spotted, let me know please. Thanks.)

This is the problem with your argument.

You are carrying over something in Point 1, that you could not carry, into point 2.

And that something, is the "Faith = meaning" nonsense.

lets try to reiterate point number 2 so that we may better identify the fallacy.

2, No God = meaning, meaning = faith, because meaning = no God, no God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of no God)

See the mistake? There is no meaning in something that doesnt exist. I cannot find meaning in unicorns, for example. This is why your argument fails. yet this is the conclusion you seem to be drawing from your point.


Ok let me make this as simple as possible. Why do I have faith? Because I believe in God, why do I believe in God? Because I see a meaning which makes me believe in God. But the meaning which makes me believe and have faith in God only points to God, it does not show me God. But God creates meaning, that being because if God exists God created the universe. And the meaning to the universe is God because God created it. So the meaning which I believe and take faith in points to God, but the reason why I have faith and not innate knowledge is because there is an oppision which is that there is no God. But if there is no God, then the universe was never created (came from ). So it has always existed because physical things can only exist in time. And the word always implies there to be time. But atheists take faith that there is no supernatural entity such as God. And therefore after concluding there is nothing supernatural first, they conclude the rest that the universe has always existed. But if there is nothing supernatural like a god then there is no meaning to the universe (not people, not trees or whatever but the whole picture) There is no meaning in whole to the universe if there is no God. But the fact that there is no meaning to the universe must mean there is a meaning other than God, which takes, in my opinion more faith than to believe in God. So faith = meaning , not God = meaning.
mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 10:57:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 10:30:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
why do I believe in God? Because I see a meaning which makes me believe in God.

So before you would say:
THERE EXISTS GOD
You say:
THERE EXISTS MEANING!

What is this meaning? (describe it w/o referencing God as you've not yet established he exists, that establishment, in your proof, comes from meaning)

Is it not that you, and others, care?

What else is it?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GodSands
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2/26/2010 11:25:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/26/2010 10:57:02 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/26/2010 10:30:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
why do I believe in God? Because I see a meaning which makes me believe in God.

So before you would say:
THERE EXISTS GOD
You say:
THERE EXISTS MEANING!

What is this meaning? (describe it w/o referencing God as you've not yet established he exists, that establishment, in your proof, comes from meaning)

Is it not that you, and others, care?

What else is it?


Meaning can only exist if God exists (or other supernatural enities, which with reason are justified true or false) so along with God there comes meaning, I do not just believe in God out of the blue, but there is a meaning or reason why I do, the reason or meaning comes from my personal interpriation of the universe, either God exists or not, I believe God does. The reason why I believe in God is because I do not believe nothing creates something. And the only other alternitive is that I believe in God. So I conclude frist that nothing does not create something and then I believe in God, if that be subconscious or not? So therefore a meaning (being that I do not believe nothing creates something, in fact I know it doesn't) leads me to believe in God, and there can only be a meaning if there is a God, but the meaning that the universe exists is because God created it. But I take faith that God created the universe because there is that possibility that there is no God, either I take faith in God or meaning, it does matter God = meaning, meaning = God.

However those who do not believe in God do not believe in meaning, but there has to be a meaning why they do not believe in God. And that is the meaning to the universe that there is no God, but meaning only come from God because meaning only come from the universes creator, God. So those who do not believe there is a God have faith that there is no meaning. But faith inherits meaning so faith = meaning. Or you could say faith = no meaning.
mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 11:34:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 10:30:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
why do I believe in God? Because I see a meaning which makes me believe in God.

What is this meaning that you see that makes you believe in God??

Or do you no longer support this statement.

Or is your term "meaning" without any real meaning at all.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GodSands
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2/26/2010 11:48:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/26/2010 11:34:41 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/26/2010 10:30:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
why do I believe in God? Because I see a meaning which makes me believe in God.

What is this meaning that you see that makes you believe in God??

Or do you no longer support this statement.

Or is your term "meaning" without any real meaning at all.


The reason why I believe in God is because I do not take up faith in nothing creates something, so I have faith in God instead. That is the meaning why.
mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 12:03:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 11:48:03 AM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/26/2010 11:34:41 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/26/2010 10:30:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
why do I believe in God? Because I see a meaning which makes me believe in God.

What is this meaning that you see that makes you believe in God??

Or do you no longer support this statement.

Or is your term "meaning" without any real meaning at all.


The reason why I believe in God is because I do not take up faith in nothing creates something, so I have faith in God instead. That is the meaning why.

I think that's an equivocation on the word "meaning".

And it makes a nice circle.

Theres meaning.. Therefore I believe in God.
but if meaning means "I have faith in God"
Then all you said is "I have faith in God... Therefore I believe in god"

So you're real argument for god Isn't that there is meaning... It's rather that existence exists...It had to come from something...Therefore god
I do not take faith that nothing creates something.
Which I don't think is a very good argument.

For I agree that Existence has to be caused, but I don't see how that means the cause has to be God... In fact I don't see how I could reason anything at all about that/those cause/s that caused existence, for, from what I can tell I am limited to this evident existence.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GodSands
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2/26/2010 3:31:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/26/2010 12:03:55 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/26/2010 11:48:03 AM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/26/2010 11:34:41 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/26/2010 10:30:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
why do I believe in God? Because I see a meaning which makes me believe in God.

What is this meaning that you see that makes you believe in God??

Or do you no longer support this statement.

Or is your term "meaning" without any real meaning at all.


The reason why I believe in God is because I do not take up faith in nothing creates something, so I have faith in God instead. That is the meaning why.

I think that's an equivocation on the word "meaning".

And it makes a nice circle.

There's meaning.. Therefore I believe in God.
but if meaning means "I have faith in God"
Then all you said is "I have faith in God... Therefore I believe in god"

So you're real argument for god Isn't that there is meaning... It's rather that existence exists...It had to come from something...Therefore god
I do not take faith that nothing creates something.
Which I don't think is a very good argument.

For I agree that Existence has to be caused, but I don't see how that means the cause has to be God... In fact I don't see how I could reason anything at all about that/those cause/s that caused existence, for, from what I can tell I am limited to this evident existence.


You aren't including the option, why don't you believe in God? No evidence you might say (I will see to your new forum topic after this) but what evidence is there that would suggest that God does exist? God or no God is fueled by faith, God will not simply be ruled out by a lack of evidence because the evidence for God will not rule out that there is no God, it is contradictory but it makes sense to this is a paradox.

So faith fuels both there being God and there being no God, but if God does not exist there is no meaning, yet faith inherits meaning, by that I mean I understand my surroundings and I understand the concept of origin or the beginning of the universe, my mind can comprehend that, and I can bring up the question of where did the universe came from, bringing meaning and therefore if I want to take on that meaning I must take on faith. But the meaning of everything circles back to God, that He his the Creator and the reason or meaning by the universe exists is because God created it, therefore God exists.

However if you do not believe in God, you must exclude God first and when you do that, most likely subconsciously you believe the opposite, God not existing. So you look about at your surroundings and understand the concept of there not be origin or no cause, but your mind cannot comprehend it so you just say, "I don't know what caused the universe, but it sure was not God." Bringing meaning and therefore you as you take on the meaning you must have faith to, because of the option, God existing. But since God did not create the universe there is no meaning to the universe in whole, however you have just thought up a meaning. So in other words, you could say humans are the meaning to the universe, but that also takes faith, then you could say, "Well evolution is the meaning to the universe." But that again takes faith, but are believing that either humans or even yourself or evolution is the meaning to the universe, however you have nothing such as God to compare with. For example; you believe you have the best house on the planet, but the house you can seen is your own. You have to compare your human existence to God to know which is better, by doing that you must believe in God, and so it all comes full circle. Which means, it is all about faith. And meaning inspires faith. And meanings are concepts.
tkubok
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2/27/2010 9:00:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 10:30:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/26/2010 6:22:13 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/25/2010 6:00:58 PM, GodSands wrote:
1, God = meaning, meaning = faith, because meaning = God, God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of God)
2, No God = faith, faith = meaning, because no God = faith. (Believe there is faith because there is meaning)
3, Which makes more sense? Down to you.

(If any flaws or mistakes are spotted, let me know please. Thanks.)

This is the problem with your argument.

You are carrying over something in Point 1, that you could not carry, into point 2.

And that something, is the "Faith = meaning" nonsense.

lets try to reiterate point number 2 so that we may better identify the fallacy.

2, No God = meaning, meaning = faith, because meaning = no God, no God = faith. (Believe there is meaning because of no God)

See the mistake? There is no meaning in something that doesnt exist. I cannot find meaning in unicorns, for example. This is why your argument fails. yet this is the conclusion you seem to be drawing from your point.


Ok let me make this as simple as possible. Why do I have faith? Because I believe in God, why do I believe in God? Because I see a meaning which makes me believe in God. But the meaning which makes me believe and have faith in God only points to God, it does not show me God. But God creates meaning, that being because if God exists God created the universe. And the meaning to the universe is God because God created it. So the meaning which I believe and take faith in points to God, but the reason why I have faith and not innate knowledge is because there is an oppision which is that there is no God. But if there is no God, then the universe was never created (came from ). So it has always existed because physical things can only exist in time. And the word always implies there to be time. But atheists take faith that there is no supernatural entity such as God. And therefore after concluding there is nothing supernatural first, they conclude the rest that the universe has always existed. But if there is nothing supernatural like a god then there is no meaning to the universe (not people, not trees or whatever but the whole picture) There is no meaning in whole to the universe if there is no God. But the fact that there is no meaning to the universe must mean there is a meaning other than God, which takes, in my opinion more faith than to believe in God. So faith = meaning , not God = meaning.

But this still has not addressed my argument.

Its not the non-exiance of God that produces meaning in a universe with no God. Therefore Not God =/= Meaning. Its something else OTHER THAN GOD that produces meaning.

How can you produce meaning in something that doesnt exist? The fundemental logic of it is faulty. Not God =/= Meaning.