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Theists.. why do you believe in God

mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 1:10:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
From what I can tell there's no good reason to...

I would appreciate it if you could enlighten me :)

Thanks.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 1:18:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:14:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Because we're all brainwashed idiots who have an inability to think for ourselves. -__-

I don't think that's a very good reason to.

I mean I see how it might lead to that such beliefs, but...

plus from what I can tell that's not even true. Sure some people maybe, but there are seemingly very smart people on this site who do believe and I'd like to know why.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 1:19:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Believe
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/26/2010 1:21:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:15:24 PM, Koopin wrote:
Believe, or serve?

Given God, serving/being in accordance with him would only make sense.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Koopin
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2/26/2010 1:26:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well, lots of reasons.
Yes, I admit my parents are Christians, but that is not why I believe.
Last year I actually desiderata to challenge my faith. To see if there was obvious evidence disproving God. Although I did find things that I can not explain, I could not honestly say that there is no God. There is so much evidence around us proving that there was a creator. Also, I have been through and seen to miracles to deny him.
This is my testimony of why I believe in God, not an argument of proving God. I know some Atheist is gonna want to comment on this saying I am wrong. But yeah...
kfc
CrappyDebater
Posts: 334
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2/26/2010 1:28:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:26:21 PM, Koopin wrote:
Well, lots of reasons.
Yes, I admit my parents are Christians, but that is not why I believe.
Last year I actually desiderata to challenge my faith. To see if there was obvious evidence disproving God. Although I did find things that I can not explain, I could not honestly say that there is no God. There is so much evidence around us proving that there was a creator. Also, I have been through and seen to miracles to deny him.
This is my testimony of why I believe in God, not an argument of proving God. I know some Atheist is gonna want to comment on this saying I am wrong. But yeah...

Where's your evidence!!!
I beat Tkubok to the punch lol.
InsertNameHere
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2/26/2010 1:31:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:26:21 PM, Koopin wrote:
Well, lots of reasons.
Yes, I admit my parents are Christians, but that is not why I believe.
Last year I actually desiderata to challenge my faith. To see if there was obvious evidence disproving God. Although I did find things that I can not explain, I could not honestly say that there is no God. There is so much evidence around us proving that there was a creator. Also, I have been through and seen to miracles to deny him.
This is my testimony of why I believe in God, not an argument of proving God. I know some Atheist is gonna want to comment on this saying I am wrong. But yeah...

Yea, pretty much why I believe. The evidence I have seen certainly leans towards the possibility of there being a God. Or maybe I'm just uneducated in science, I don't know.
mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 1:41:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:26:21 PM, Koopin wrote:
Last year I actually desiderata to challenge my faith. To see if there was obvious evidence disproving God. Although I did find things that I can not explain, I could not honestly say that there is no God.

I also will not say "there is no God" or "there cannot be a God"

But I'd like to know why one would/ought to say "there is a god"

There is so much evidence around us proving that there was a creator. Also, I have been through and seen to miracles to deny him
This is what I'm talkin bout.

What kind of evidence and miracles?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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2/26/2010 1:43:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:28:32 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:

Where's your evidence!!!
I beat Tkubok to the punch lol.

I will give you a list from a site.

I am not gonna spend all day on here defending these though. I try not to debate with people who have a closed mind, even most Christians.

1. Whilst agreeing that random patterns occur naturally by chance, DNA however, consists of code, which requires a designer.

2. Science can only be the detector of certain things. You cannot scientifically detect emotion, memory, thoughts etc., though scientifically we must. These things which do not consist of matter are beyond the detection of science.

3. How could the complexity of the human mind possibly evolve on its own accord out of mindless cells? Where does our consciousness come from?

4. What/who knew that our hunger & thirst had to be catered for by the food & drink which we're supplied with?

5. What/who knew that had Earth been set nearer to the sun, we would burn up?

6. What/who knew that had Earth been set any further from the sun, we would freeze up?

7. What/who knew that had Earth been built larger or smaller, its atmosphere would be one where it would not be possible for us to breathe?

8. What/who knew that we require the oxygen of plants, just as plants require the carbon dioxide of us?

9. The bible knew that the earth was round way before Columbus

Something to note, I do not base my faith off of this. God said do not rely on your own understanding. I have faith in God.
kfc
CrappyDebater
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2/26/2010 1:43:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What kind of evidence and miracles?

Matt, I would be happy to answer this for you from my opinion, but I would prefer to do it in a Message to you. You are not accepting messages.
mattrodstrom
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2/26/2010 1:43:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:41:34 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:
It can be argued of course, but I like...

Universe exists / Universe Does not Exist

Optimistic / Pessimistic

God / No God

huh??
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/26/2010 1:44:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:43:26 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:
What kind of evidence and miracles?

Matt, I would be happy to answer this for you from my opinion, but I would prefer to do it in a Message to you. You are not accepting messages.

Evidence shouldn't be private. It should be evident to all.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/26/2010 1:45:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:43:26 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:
What kind of evidence and miracles?

Matt, I would be happy to answer this for you from my opinion, but I would prefer to do it in a Message to you. You are not accepting messages.

well, it's kind of the point of the forum...

and I participated in your forums when I believed something relevant....
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/26/2010 1:46:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:31:42 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Yea, pretty much why I believe. The evidence I have seen certainly leans towards the possibility of there being a God. Or maybe I'm just uneducated in science, I don't know.

It doesn't require scientific knowledge to figure out that there's no God. Do you also believe in fairies because you don't know science? I mean, where does it end? What else will you believe in because of no science education.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CrappyDebater
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2/26/2010 1:46:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Evidence shouldn't be private. It should be evident to all.

I can understand your point, however I do not wish to have my evidence criticized by the public geo, that is my choice.
Koopin
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2/26/2010 1:47:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
And of course other things that point o God's existence like:

1. The eye
2. Water
3. The Brain
4. Sight
5. Language
6. Touch
kfc
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/26/2010 1:47:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:26:21 PM, Koopin wrote:
Well, lots of reasons.
Yes, I admit my parents are Christians, but that is not why I believe.
Last year I actually desiderata to challenge my faith. To see if there was obvious evidence disproving God. Although I did find things that I can not explain, I could not honestly say that there is no God. There is so much evidence around us proving that there was a creator. Also, I have been through and seen to miracles to deny him.
This is my testimony of why I believe in God, not an argument of proving God. I know some Atheist is gonna want to comment on this saying I am wrong. But yeah...

Which God? Zeus, Thor, Allah, Osiris, or Quetzalcoatl.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/26/2010 1:48:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:46:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/26/2010 1:31:42 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Yea, pretty much why I believe. The evidence I have seen certainly leans towards the possibility of there being a God. Or maybe I'm just uneducated in science, I don't know.

It doesn't require scientific knowledge to figure out that there's no God. Do you also believe in fairies because you don't know science? I mean, where does it end? What else will you believe in because of no science education.

Well i know basic science and enough to know that all this stuff couldn't have possibly came out of nowhere. Like koopin was saying, something as complex as DNA must have a creator...
Koopin
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2/26/2010 1:50:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:47:47 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Which God? Zeus, Thor, Allah, Osiris, or Quetzalcoatl.

That's when It comes down to the serving part.

I believe in the God the bible, but that was not what the subject is about.
kfc
GeoLaureate8
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2/26/2010 1:51:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:48:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/26/2010 1:46:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 2/26/2010 1:31:42 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Yea, pretty much why I believe. The evidence I have seen certainly leans towards the possibility of there being a God. Or maybe I'm just uneducated in science, I don't know.

It doesn't require scientific knowledge to figure out that there's no God. Do you also believe in fairies because you don't know science? I mean, where does it end? What else will you believe in because of no science education.

Well i know basic science and enough to know that all this stuff couldn't have possibly came out of nowhere.

Uh, which law of science is that? Stephen Hawking suggests that many universes sprout into existence. Quantum particles observably pop in and out of existence from nothing.

Like koopin was saying, something as complex as DNA must have a creator...

That's a non-sequitur.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CrappyDebater
Posts: 334
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2/26/2010 1:55:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Geo:
I do not believe scientific evidence to be the only type of evidence.
I think there are things science simply cannot explain, scientifically.
My view on this may eventually change, but as of now, this is the reason I keep my "evidence" to myself.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/26/2010 1:55:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:43:22 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 2/26/2010 1:28:32 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:

Where's your evidence!!!
I beat Tkubok to the punch lol.

I will give you a list from a site.

I am not gonna spend all day on here defending these though. I try not to debate with people who have a closed mind, even most Christians.

1. Whilst agreeing that random patterns occur naturally by chance, DNA however, consists of code, which requires a designer.
I don't see why...

2. Science can only be the detector of certain things. You cannot scientifically detect emotion, memory, thoughts etc., though scientifically we must. These things which do not consist of matter are beyond the detection of science.
well we experience them, and naturally postulate them in others given their actions...
I wouldn't say they're absolutely caused by matter (though it is what I assume for various reasons) but why would such a thing mean God exists??

3. How could the complexity of the human mind possibly evolve on its own accord out of mindless cells? Where does our consciousness come from?

Again, why does this mean God??

4. What/who knew that our hunger & thirst had to be catered for by the food & drink which we're supplied with?
Well if we evolved, then we'd only come to exist given the appropriate food and water conditions...

plus, the fact that we were born means that our parents had those necessary conditions...

and how does this mean God?

5. What/who knew that had Earth been set nearer to the sun, we would burn up?

Again if we evolved we did so to fit the given conditions... and if they weren't there we wouldn't come to be.. like there's nothing on pluto.

plus how would that mean God?

6. What/who knew that had Earth been set any further from the sun, we would freeze up?
....same..
7. What/who knew that had Earth been built larger or smaller, its atmosphere would be one where it would not be possible for us to breathe?
...same..
8. What/who knew that we require the oxygen of plants, just as plants require the carbon dioxide of us?
...same..
9. The bible knew that the earth was round way before Columbus
ok.. so did the mayans and I'm pretty sure a bunch of others...

Something to note, I do not base my faith off of this. God said do not rely on your own understanding. I have faith in God.

oh... perhaps then you could tell me why you have faith in God, rather than why you believe...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/26/2010 1:58:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:54:16 PM, Koopin wrote:
Why do you not believe in God Geo?

"The religious idea of God cannot do full duty for the metaphysical infinity." - Alan Watts

"The idea of the Universe being ruled by that marvelous old gentleman, is no longer plausible. It isn't that anybody has disproved it, but it just somehow doesn't go with the vast infinitude of the Universe." - Alan Watts

"You cannot get an intelligent organism such as a human being out of an unintelligent Universe." - Alan Watts

That sums up why I don't believe in God, and instead I believe in an intelligent Universe.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/26/2010 1:58:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:47:09 PM, Koopin wrote:
And of course other things that point o God's existence like:

1. The eye
2. Water
3. The Brain
4. Sight
5. Language
6. Touch

So you absolutely believe in Phys. reality too... :)

and why could these things not evolve in an extremely slow process, bit by bit?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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2/26/2010 1:59:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 1:55:57 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/26/2010 1:43:22 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 2/26/2010 1:28:32 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:

Where's your evidence!!!
I beat Tkubok to the punch lol.

I will give you a list from a site.

I am not gonna spend all day on here defending these though. I try not to debate with people who have a closed mind, even most Christians.

1. Whilst agreeing that random patterns occur naturally by chance, DNA however, consists of code, which requires a designer.
I don't see why...

2. Science can only be the detector of certain things. You cannot scientifically detect emotion, memory, thoughts etc., though scientifically we must. These things which do not consist of matter are beyond the detection of science.
well we experience them, and naturally postulate them in others given their actions...
I wouldn't say they're absolutely caused by matter (though it is what I assume for various reasons) but why would such a thing mean God exists??

3. How could the complexity of the human mind possibly evolve on its own accord out of mindless cells? Where does our consciousness come from?

Again, why does this mean God??

4. What/who knew that our hunger & thirst had to be catered for by the food & drink which we're supplied with?
Well if we evolved, then we'd only come to exist given the appropriate food and water conditions...

plus, the fact that we were born means that our parents had those necessary conditions...

and how does this mean God?

5. What/who knew that had Earth been set nearer to the sun, we would burn up?

Again if we evolved we did so to fit the given conditions... and if they weren't there we wouldn't come to be.. like there's nothing on pluto.

plus how would that mean God?

6. What/who knew that had Earth been set any further from the sun, we would freeze up?
....same..
7. What/who knew that had Earth been built larger or smaller, its atmosphere would be one where it would not be possible for us to breathe?
...same..
8. What/who knew that we require the oxygen of plants, just as plants require the carbon dioxide of us?
...same..
9. The bible knew that the earth was round way before Columbus
ok.. so did the mayans and I'm pretty sure a bunch of others...

Something to note, I do not base my faith off of this. God said do not rely on your own understanding. I have faith in God.

oh... perhaps then you could tell me why you have faith in God, rather than why you believe...

Faith: Belief that is not based on proof

I believe in God because of what he has done for me. Nothing more to it.

Why do you have faith that God does not exist?

I'll be on later, ive g2g
kfc