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an infinite god is illogical

GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.
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n7
Posts: 1,355
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7/18/2014 8:00:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What?
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 8:06:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:00:11 PM, n7 wrote:
What?

You see no dilemma in the present vs eternal past?
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/18/2014 8:26:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

St. Augustine answered this in the 4th century in his confessions. http://www.sacred-texts.com...

Time was created by God. So asking "how long", "before", "when" before" time was created is a meaningless question.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 8:28:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:26:50 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

St. Augustine answered this in the 4th century in his confessions. http://www.sacred-texts.com...

Time was created by God. So asking "how long", "before", "when" before" time was created is a meaningless question.

saying the question is meaningless is not an answer nor is it a refutation.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/18/2014 8:38:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:28:22 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:26:50 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

St. Augustine answered this in the 4th century in his confessions. http://www.sacred-texts.com...

Time was created by God. So asking "how long", "before", "when" before" time was created is a meaningless question.

saying the question is meaningless is not an answer nor is it a refutation.

"How many square circles can fit in my closet?" Yeah meaningless.

The answer is used many times by Atheist who argue that asking what caused the big bang is a ridiculous question. Are you saying it is equally non-refuting to theist claims when the reasoning is spouted off by Atheist?

Yeah most Atheist arguments are twistings of what theist free thinkers thought up. Apparently just thinking about the nature of God is fruitful to real life geniuses.

As far as backing up the rebuttal that it is meaningless:

If space and time are linked (See Einstein"s General Theory of Relativity) than before the Universe, there was no time. Since the word "before" denotes time, that basically means that there was no before the Universe as we understand time.

Shall I link like 20 or so Atheist who explain this? If it is a popular argument to defeat God, will you concede and join ranks with the "there is no 'before' before there was time" crowd?
Mhykiel
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7/18/2014 8:42:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:28:22 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:26:50 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

St. Augustine answered this in the 4th century in his confessions. http://www.sacred-texts.com...

Time was created by God. So asking "how long", "before", "when" before" time was created is a meaningless question.

saying the question is meaningless is not an answer nor is it a refutation.

I can tell by your quick response you did not even bother to read St. Augustine. Which refutes your OP.

There was no "before", "now", "eternity" before the time was created at the creation of the universe. ((4th Century and this Theist was accepting a finite universe.. shame it took another 1500 years for science to catch up))
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 8:47:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:38:05 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:28:22 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:26:50 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

St. Augustine answered this in the 4th century in his confessions. http://www.sacred-texts.com...

Time was created by God. So asking "how long", "before", "when" before" time was created is a meaningless question.

saying the question is meaningless is not an answer nor is it a refutation.

"How many square circles can fit in my closet?" Yeah meaningless.

It is meaningless because square circles haven't been proven to exist

The answer is used many times by Atheist who argue that asking what caused the big bang is a ridiculous question. Are you saying it is equally non-refuting to theist claims when the reasoning is spouted off by Atheist?

Yeah most Atheist arguments are twistings of what theist free thinkers thought up. Apparently just thinking about the nature of God is fruitful to real life geniuses.

As far as backing up the rebuttal that it is meaningless:

If space and time are linked (See Einstein"s General Theory of Relativity) than before the Universe, there was no time. Since the word "before" denotes time, that basically means that there was no before the Universe as we understand time.

Shall I link like 20 or so Atheist who explain this? If it is a popular argument to defeat God, will you concede and join ranks with the "there is no 'before' before there was time" crowd?

Einstein did not believe in a personal god which created the universe. This basically proves my argument for how god could not exist before the universe because there was no before.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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7/18/2014 8:48:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

You're an infinite god...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/18/2014 8:51:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:47:41 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:38:05 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:28:22 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:26:50 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

St. Augustine answered this in the 4th century in his confessions. http://www.sacred-texts.com...

Time was created by God. So asking "how long", "before", "when" before" time was created is a meaningless question.

saying the question is meaningless is not an answer nor is it a refutation.

"How many square circles can fit in my closet?" Yeah meaningless.

It is meaningless because square circles haven't been proven to exist

The answer is used many times by Atheist who argue that asking what caused the big bang is a ridiculous question. Are you saying it is equally non-refuting to theist claims when the reasoning is spouted off by Atheist?

Yeah most Atheist arguments are twistings of what theist free thinkers thought up. Apparently just thinking about the nature of God is fruitful to real life geniuses.

As far as backing up the rebuttal that it is meaningless:

If space and time are linked (See Einstein"s General Theory of Relativity) than before the Universe, there was no time. Since the word "before" denotes time, that basically means that there was no before the Universe as we understand time.

Shall I link like 20 or so Atheist who explain this? If it is a popular argument to defeat God, will you concede and join ranks with the "there is no 'before' before there was time" crowd?

Einstein did not believe in a personal god which created the universe. This basically proves my argument for how god could not exist before the universe because there was no before.

Like I said, 3 times now, St. Augustine answers this in his confessions. and reasons that existence without time, would be an eternal unchanging existence. Which is perfectly in accordance with God's nature.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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7/18/2014 8:58:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:51:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:47:41 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:38:05 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:28:22 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:26:50 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

St. Augustine answered this in the 4th century in his confessions. http://www.sacred-texts.com...

Time was created by God. So asking "how long", "before", "when" before" time was created is a meaningless question.

saying the question is meaningless is not an answer nor is it a refutation.

"How many square circles can fit in my closet?" Yeah meaningless.

It is meaningless because square circles haven't been proven to exist

The answer is used many times by Atheist who argue that asking what caused the big bang is a ridiculous question. Are you saying it is equally non-refuting to theist claims when the reasoning is spouted off by Atheist?

Yeah most Atheist arguments are twistings of what theist free thinkers thought up. Apparently just thinking about the nature of God is fruitful to real life geniuses.

As far as backing up the rebuttal that it is meaningless:

If space and time are linked (See Einstein"s General Theory of Relativity) than before the Universe, there was no time. Since the word "before" denotes time, that basically means that there was no before the Universe as we understand time.

Shall I link like 20 or so Atheist who explain this? If it is a popular argument to defeat God, will you concede and join ranks with the "there is no 'before' before there was time" crowd?

Einstein did not believe in a personal god which created the universe. This basically proves my argument for how god could not exist before the universe because there was no before.

Like I said, 3 times now, St. Augustine answers this in his confessions. and reasons that existence without time, would be an eternal unchanging existence. Which is perfectly in accordance with God's nature.

Eternity does not exist before time, what would that even mean. You are just asserting that eternity has already existed and you think that makes sense, shame on you.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/18/2014 9:05:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:58:36 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:51:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:47:41 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:38:05 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:28:22 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 8:26:50 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

St. Augustine answered this in the 4th century in his confessions. http://www.sacred-texts.com...

Time was created by God. So asking "how long", "before", "when" before" time was created is a meaningless question.

saying the question is meaningless is not an answer nor is it a refutation.

"How many square circles can fit in my closet?" Yeah meaningless.

It is meaningless because square circles haven't been proven to exist

The answer is used many times by Atheist who argue that asking what caused the big bang is a ridiculous question. Are you saying it is equally non-refuting to theist claims when the reasoning is spouted off by Atheist?

Yeah most Atheist arguments are twistings of what theist free thinkers thought up. Apparently just thinking about the nature of God is fruitful to real life geniuses.

As far as backing up the rebuttal that it is meaningless:

If space and time are linked (See Einstein"s General Theory of Relativity) than before the Universe, there was no time. Since the word "before" denotes time, that basically means that there was no before the Universe as we understand time.

Shall I link like 20 or so Atheist who explain this? If it is a popular argument to defeat God, will you concede and join ranks with the "there is no 'before' before there was time" crowd?

Einstein did not believe in a personal god which created the universe. This basically proves my argument for how god could not exist before the universe because there was no before.

Like I said, 3 times now, St. Augustine answers this in his confessions. and reasons that existence without time, would be an eternal unchanging existence. Which is perfectly in accordance with God's nature.

Eternity does not exist before time, what would that even mean. You are just asserting that eternity has already existed and you think that makes sense, shame on you.

See, I answer him that asketh, "What did God before He made heaven and earth?" I answer not as one is said to have done merrily (eluding the pressure of the question), "He was preparing hell (saith he) for pryers into mysteries." It is one thing to answer enquiries, another to make sport of enquirers. So I answer not; for rather had I answer, "I know not," what I know not, than so as to raise a laugh at him who asketh deep things and gain praise for one who answereth false things. But I say that Thou, our God, art the Creator of every creature: and if by the name "heaven and earth," every creature be understood; I boldly say, "that before God made heaven and earth, He did not make any thing." For if He made, what did He make but a creature? And would I knew whatsoever I desire to know to my profit, as I know, that no creature was made, before there was made any creature.

But if any excursive brain rove over the images of forepassed times, and wonder that Thou the God Almighty and All-creating and All-supporting, Maker of heaven and earth, didst for innumerable ages forbear from so great a work, before Thou wouldest make it; let him awake and consider, that he wonders at false conceits. For whence could innumerable ages pass by, which Thou madest not, Thou the Author and Creator of all ages? or what times should there be, which were not made by Thee? or how should they pass by, if they never were? Seeing then Thou art the Creator of all times, if any time was before Thou madest heaven and earth, why say they that Thou didst forego working? For that very time didst Thou make, nor could times pass by, before Thou madest those times. But if before heaven and earth there was no time, why is it demanded, what Thou then didst? For there was no "then," when there was no time.

At no time then hadst Thou not made any thing, because time itself Thou madest. And no times are coeternal with Thee, because Thou abidest; but if they abode, they should not be times. For what is time? Who can readily and briefly explain this? Who can even in thought comprehend it, so as to utter a word about it? But what in discourse do we mention more familiarly and knowingly, than time? And, we understand, when we speak of it; we understand also, when we hear it spoken of by another. What then is time? If no one asks me, I know: if I wish to explain it to one that asketh, I know not: yet I say boldly that I know, that if nothing passed away, time past were not; and if nothing were coming, a time to come were not; and if nothing were, time present were not. Those two times then, past and to come, how are they, seeing the past now is not, and that to come is not yet? But the present, should it always be present, and never pass into time past, verily it should not be time, but eternity. If time present (if it is to be time) only cometh into existence, because it passeth into time past, how can we say that either this is, whose cause of being is, that it shall not be; so, namely, that we cannot truly say that time is, but because it is tending not to be?

"what did God before He made heaven and earth?" Or, "How came it into His mind to make any thing, having never before made any thing?" Give them, O Lord, well to bethink themselves what they say, and to find, that "never" cannot be predicated, when "time" is not. This then that He is said "never to have made"; what else is it to say, than "in 'no have made?" Let them see therefore, that time cannot be without created being, and cease to speak that vanity. May they also be extended towards those things which are before; and understand Thee before all times, the eternal Creator of all times, and that no times be coeternal with Thee, nor any creature, even if there be any creature before all times.

Not much has changed since 4th century in these regards.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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7/18/2014 9:23:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

Response: God does not exist outside of time. Also, an infinite past cannot exist unless there is a present. So the statement that an infinite past cannot make it to the present is illogical. There has to be a present in order for a past to exist.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 10:07:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 9:23:41 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

Response: God does not exist outside of time. Also, an infinite past cannot exist unless there is a present. So the statement that an infinite past cannot make it to the present is illogical. There has to be a present in order for a past to exist.

TRUE=There has to be a present in order for a past to exist.

The infinite past has cannot have a beginning, what is the present if the past is getting earlier? If time has no beginning it cannot have a present.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
adontimasu
Posts: 93
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7/18/2014 10:23:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There's a reason infinity is a tricky subject; it's, by its very nature, paradoxical. For instance, Zeno's Paradoxes (http://en.wikipedia.org...) are incredibly important in our discovery of how the world works and show logical examples of infinity at work in our everyday life that seem illogical. A god which exists infinitely can reach present for the same reason that a tortoise would never pass Achilles in a foot race.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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7/18/2014 10:36:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

The infinite past cannot make it to the present ... yet I can traverse an infinite number of points from point A to point B. I can move my hands through the air, even though there is an infinite amount of space between where I moved my hands. I can count from one to two, even though there are an infinite amount of numbers between one and two.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 10:40:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 10:23:00 PM, adontimasu wrote:
There's a reason infinity is a tricky subject; it's, by its very nature, paradoxical. For instance, Zeno's Paradoxes (http://en.wikipedia.org...) are incredibly important in our discovery of how the world works and show logical examples of infinity at work in our everyday life that seem illogical. A god which exists infinitely can reach present for the same reason that a tortoise would never pass Achilles in a foot race.

Your confusing the problem of an infinite past with an argument for a closed infinite
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 10:41:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 10:36:01 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

The infinite past cannot make it to the present ... yet I can traverse an infinite number of points from point A to point B. I can move my hands through the air, even though there is an infinite amount of space between where I moved my hands. I can count from one to two, even though there are an infinite amount of numbers between one and two.

Same Problem, arguing with a solution to a closed infinite
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
PeacefulChaos
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7/18/2014 10:45:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 10:41:16 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 10:36:01 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

The infinite past cannot make it to the present ... yet I can traverse an infinite number of points from point A to point B. I can move my hands through the air, even though there is an infinite amount of space between where I moved my hands. I can count from one to two, even though there are an infinite amount of numbers between one and two.

Same Problem, arguing with a solution to a closed infinite

Ah, I see my mistake.

Regardless, an open infinite (I suppose that's what it is called) by how you view it would be impossible to exist. No matter where we are in time, it would be supposedly impossible to reach a point of "present" because there is an infinite amount of time in the past. Yet is this really impossible, or does this just reflect how limited human minds are? How can a limited mind comprehend an infinite thing?

"Time" may simply be a result of quantum entanglement. If this is the case - that is, it's not intrinsic and time has not always existed, then the terms "past" and "present" no longer apply.
POPOO5560
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7/18/2014 10:46:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

https://www.youtube.com...

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE UNTO HIM !
Never fart near dog
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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7/18/2014 10:55:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 10:46:41 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

https://www.youtube.com...

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE UNTO HIM !

If god was known as a being with batteries then not having batteries would prove your god doesn't exist. If your god has an infinite past then your god, by definition, has no beginning, things either begin to exist or they don't, if they don't begin to exist then they don't exist.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 11:00:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 10:45:55 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 7/18/2014 10:41:16 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 10:36:01 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

The infinite past cannot make it to the present ... yet I can traverse an infinite number of points from point A to point B. I can move my hands through the air, even though there is an infinite amount of space between where I moved my hands. I can count from one to two, even though there are an infinite amount of numbers between one and two.

Same Problem, arguing with a solution to a closed infinite

Ah, I see my mistake.

Regardless, an open infinite (I suppose that's what it is called) by how you view it would be impossible to exist. No matter where we are in time, it would be supposedly impossible to reach a point of "present" because there is an infinite amount of time in the past. Yet is this really impossible, or does this just reflect how limited human minds are? How can a limited mind comprehend an infinite thing?

"Time" may simply be a result of quantum entanglement. If this is the case - that is, it's not intrinsic and time has not always existed, then the terms "past" and "present" no longer apply.

Trying to claim the present and the infinite past is trying to claim we are in a room without walls. It is even going so far as to say the fact we don't have walls is proof we are in a room.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 11:06:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 8:48:53 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

You're an infinite god...

If there were two infinite god's, and they both tried to think of the highest number, only one or none could win.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
bornofgod
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7/18/2014 11:15:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

We don't exist in space, time or matter, either. All we experience are illusions that aren't real. Our true created existence is invisible vibrations that don't use up any space. Since vibrations don't use up any space, there's no such thing as physical matter. Time is only observed as vibrations being processed into moving illusions.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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7/18/2014 11:22:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 11:15:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

We don't exist in space, time or matter, either. All we experience are illusions that aren't real. Our true created existence is invisible vibrations that don't use up any space. Since vibrations don't use up any space, there's no such thing as physical matter. Time is only observed as vibrations being processed into moving illusions.

vibrations need something in space to vibrate.
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bornofgod
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7/18/2014 11:36:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 11:22:32 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:15:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

We don't exist in space, time or matter, either. All we experience are illusions that aren't real. Our true created existence is invisible vibrations that don't use up any space. Since vibrations don't use up any space, there's no such thing as physical matter. Time is only observed as vibrations being processed into moving illusions.

vibrations need something in space to vibrate.

Do they? How much space does a vibration need?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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7/18/2014 11:43:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 10:07:57 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 9:23:41 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

Response: God does not exist outside of time. Also, an infinite past cannot exist unless there is a present. So the statement that an infinite past cannot make it to the present is illogical. There has to be a present in order for a past to exist.

TRUE=There has to be a present in order for a past to exist.

The infinite past has cannot have a beginning, what is the present if the past is getting earlier? If time has no beginning it cannot have a present.

Response: To the contrary, the present is based upon a reference of now. Not whether something began or not. So an infinite past does not negate the existence of the present, since we can still refer to now during any point of an infinite.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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7/18/2014 11:52:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 11:36:45 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:22:32 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:15:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

We don't exist in space, time or matter, either. All we experience are illusions that aren't real. Our true created existence is invisible vibrations that don't use up any space. Since vibrations don't use up any space, there's no such thing as physical matter. Time is only observed as vibrations being processed into moving illusions.

vibrations need something in space to vibrate.

Do they? How much space does a vibration need?

Does nothing vibrate?
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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7/18/2014 11:57:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 11:43:49 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/18/2014 10:07:57 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 9:23:41 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

Response: God does not exist outside of time. Also, an infinite past cannot exist unless there is a present. So the statement that an infinite past cannot make it to the present is illogical. There has to be a present in order for a past to exist.

TRUE=There has to be a present in order for a past to exist.

The infinite past has cannot have a beginning, what is the present if the past is getting earlier? If time has no beginning it cannot have a present.

Response: To the contrary, the present is based upon a reference of now. Not whether something began or not. So an infinite past does not negate the existence of the present, since we can still refer to now during any point of an infinite.

If the infinite past exists, the first moment has yet to exist, therefore a second moment would be unable to exist, as well as any other point of reference
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/19/2014
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 11:52:00 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:36:45 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:22:32 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:15:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 7/18/2014 7:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
The infinite past could never make it to the present. If god exists outside of time, then god never exists as 'never' describes the span of time.

We don't exist in space, time or matter, either. All we experience are illusions that aren't real. Our true created existence is invisible vibrations that don't use up any space. Since vibrations don't use up any space, there's no such thing as physical matter. Time is only observed as vibrations being processed into moving illusions.

vibrations need something in space to vibrate.

Do they? How much space does a vibration need?

Does nothing vibrate?

Nothing is only a word to describe something invisible. When you don't see something, there's "nothing" there. Nothing cannot be observed and neither can something invisible. Vibrations cannot be observed so they are nothing, or invisible.

When you observe things in your dream at night, do they exist as illusions or do they exist in space and contain matter? Can you experience time when you're not dreaming while you're sleeping?