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Christ or Hell - The Only Two Options

sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/19/2014 9:16:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are really only two options for a SINNER:

Either confess you are a sinner and find mercy in Jesus Christ,
or perish in your sins, and go to Hell.

Now, it's utterly amazing that anyone would choose the latter.
But they do. And here's why -- it's very simple:
Because they are blind and lost, and ignorant of what's right, and of what's true, and of what's good for themselves.

Now, if your precious "free will" is so important to you that you won't seek mercy for your sins, then God JUST to cast you into eternal hellfire.

And if you would rather die in your sins and go to Hell than bow to Christ, then you deserve what you get if you go to Hell.

And yet, GOD, in his MERCY, has chosen to SAVE a PEOPLE.
Not the whole world, but a particular people.

Not because of anything they might do, but by FREE, SOVEREIGN GRACE.
By unconditional election that can't be earned by the sinner in any way.

And God sent his own SON, who never sinned, to die for sinners,
and all those for whom he died are REDEEMED!

By his own precious blood, the Son of God redeemed his people.
And God sends his Spirit into the hearts of his people.

And the Spirit forms a new man, a new heart, and a new will,
that is conformed to the very image of Christ.

And that redeemed sinner will persevere, and be preserved by God's grace,
and will never experience God's wrath for his sins.

Isn't that AMAZING?

Isn't that the best news that a SINNER could ever hear, that there is MERCY and FORGIVENESS of SINS, in JESUS CHRIST?

Yet, MULTITUDES of people think their so-called "free will" is so important, that they'd rather go to HELL than have their "free wills" be "violated"!

Well, I thank GOD that MY WILL was "VIOLATED" by God's Spirit.
And that, as a result, all my sins are forgiven!

What Grace!
What MERCY!
My sins are ALL FORGIVEN!
And the same grace and mercy is for all those who believe in him.

It's Free Grace in Jesus Christ, or go to Hell with your "free will."

May God be pleased to "violate" your "free will".
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/19/2014 9:23:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oh go AWAY! You don't speak for God or Christ and I don't want you're vile unrepentant ideology polluting Christianity with false doctrines trying to reduce Christianity to a terrorism religion, like Muhammadism.

Think before posting BAD RELIGION as you don't comprehend Forgiveness of Sins or that there cannot be hypocrisy in Forgiveness of Sins by either God or Christ. You are the hypocrite believer who thinks God thinks and acts like you do, wanting to punish everyone who doesn't believe like you do. Just take that crappy attitude and beliefs someplace else where psuedo-Christianity is discussed by psuedo-Christians promoting the Devil in Christian form, the Devil who cannot understand forgiveness of sins either..

God can and does. So stop promoting bad Christian doctrines or face my wrath.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/19/2014 9:27:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 9:16:33 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
There are really only two options for a SINNER:

Either confess you are a sinner and find mercy in Jesus Christ,
or perish in your sins, and go to Hell.

Now, it's utterly amazing that anyone would choose the latter.
But they do. And here's why -- it's very simple:
Because they are blind and lost, and ignorant of what's right, and of what's true, and of what's good for themselves.

Now, if your precious "free will" is so important to you that you won't seek mercy for your sins, then God JUST to cast you into eternal hellfire.

And if you would rather die in your sins and go to Hell than bow to Christ, then you deserve what you get if you go to Hell.

And yet, GOD, in his MERCY, has chosen to SAVE a PEOPLE.
Not the whole world, but a particular people.

Not because of anything they might do, but by FREE, SOVEREIGN GRACE.
By unconditional election that can't be earned by the sinner in any way.

And God sent his own SON, who never sinned, to die for sinners,
and all those for whom he died are REDEEMED!

By his own precious blood, the Son of God redeemed his people.
And God sends his Spirit into the hearts of his people.

And the Spirit forms a new man, a new heart, and a new will,
that is conformed to the very image of Christ.

And that redeemed sinner will persevere, and be preserved by God's grace,
and will never experience God's wrath for his sins.

Isn't that AMAZING?

Amazingly untrue, from start to finish. The "finish" is particularly startling: "And that redeemed sinner will persevere, and be preserved by God's grace, and will never experience God's wrath for his sins."

Yet so-called "redeemed sinners" are issued one warning after another, complete with warnings of the consequences:

"For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace."

You, based upon your conclusion, are forced to claim that such a character is saved anyhow, even though fallen away from grace and severed from Christ.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/19/2014 10:14:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 9:16:33 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
There are really only two options for a SINNER:

Either confess you are a sinner and find mercy in Jesus Christ,
or perish in your sins, and go to Hell.

Now, it's utterly amazing that anyone would choose the latter.
But they do. And here's why -- it's very simple:
Because they are blind and lost, and ignorant of what's right, and of what's true, and of what's good for themselves.

Now, if your precious "free will" is so important to you that you won't seek mercy for your sins, then God JUST to cast you into eternal hellfire.

And if you would rather die in your sins and go to Hell than bow to Christ, then you deserve what you get if you go to Hell.

And yet, GOD, in his MERCY, has chosen to SAVE a PEOPLE.
Not the whole world, but a particular people.

Not because of anything they might do, but by FREE, SOVEREIGN GRACE.
By unconditional election that can't be earned by the sinner in any way.

And God sent his own SON, who never sinned, to die for sinners,
and all those for whom he died are REDEEMED!

By his own precious blood, the Son of God redeemed his people.
And God sends his Spirit into the hearts of his people.

And the Spirit forms a new man, a new heart, and a new will,
that is conformed to the very image of Christ.

And that redeemed sinner will persevere, and be preserved by God's grace,
and will never experience God's wrath for his sins.

Isn't that AMAZING?

Isn't that the best news that a SINNER could ever hear, that there is MERCY and FORGIVENESS of SINS, in JESUS CHRIST?

Yet, MULTITUDES of people think their so-called "free will" is so important, that they'd rather go to HELL than have their "free wills" be "violated"!

Well, I thank GOD that MY WILL was "VIOLATED" by God's Spirit.
And that, as a result, all my sins are forgiven!

What Grace!
What MERCY!
My sins are ALL FORGIVEN!
And the same grace and mercy is for all those who believe in him.

It's Free Grace in Jesus Christ, or go to Hell with your "free will."

May God be pleased to "violate" your "free will".

Sorry, but Christianity, as you propose it, has flaws in the systems put forth by your god. These flaws cannot exist if there is a perfect god, which Christianity claims.

The three Golden Goddesses, on the other hand, do not have an imperfect system.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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7/19/2014 10:54:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.

Then get off the forum. Here in the forum we back up our assertions.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/19/2014 11:32:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 10:54:11 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.

Then get off the forum. Here in the forum we back up our assertions.

No, you mean you pretend to back up your assertions.

It's mostly nothing but causistry and pseudoscience.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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7/19/2014 11:33:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 11:32:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:54:11 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.

Then get off the forum. Here in the forum we back up our assertions.

No, you mean you pretend to back up your assertions.

It's mostly nothing but causistry and pseudoscience.

Ah, an insult to the entire forum.

No one takes you seriously.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/20/2014 6:44:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 11:33:28 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 11:32:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:54:11 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.

Then get off the forum. Here in the forum we back up our assertions.

No, you mean you pretend to back up your assertions.

It's mostly nothing but causistry and pseudoscience.

Ah, an insult to the entire forum.

No one takes you seriously.

Why get off the forum? True, he didn't back much up - but hey, on the bright side, at least he IS "discussing" religion.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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7/20/2014 6:54:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:44:39 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/19/2014 11:33:28 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 11:32:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:54:11 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.

Then get off the forum. Here in the forum we back up our assertions.

No, you mean you pretend to back up your assertions.

It's mostly nothing but causistry and pseudoscience.

Ah, an insult to the entire forum.

No one takes you seriously.

Why get off the forum? True, he didn't back much up - but hey, on the bright side, at least he IS "discussing" religion.

It's called preaching, not discussion.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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7/20/2014 12:08:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:44:39 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/19/2014 11:33:28 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 11:32:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:54:11 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.

Then get off the forum. Here in the forum we back up our assertions.

No, you mean you pretend to back up your assertions.

It's mostly nothing but causistry and pseudoscience.

Ah, an insult to the entire forum.

No one takes you seriously.

Why get off the forum? True, he didn't back much up - but hey, on the bright side, at least he IS "discussing" religion.

He cites verses and tells us we need to repent or go to hell.

His presence does nothing for the forum, and just fills it with worthless crap.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/20/2014 3:52:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 12:08:05 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:44:39 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/19/2014 11:33:28 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 11:32:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:54:11 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.

Then get off the forum. Here in the forum we back up our assertions.

No, you mean you pretend to back up your assertions.

It's mostly nothing but causistry and pseudoscience.

Ah, an insult to the entire forum.

No one takes you seriously.

Why get off the forum? True, he didn't back much up - but hey, on the bright side, at least he IS "discussing" religion.

He cites verses and tells us we need to repent or go to hell.

His presence does nothing for the forum, and just fills it with worthless crap.

He teaches a ridiculous doctrine, but he has responded to me - although not much.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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7/20/2014 3:59:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 10:32:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:18:39 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
Prove it.

I can't. And I don't need to.

You do if you expect people to take you seriously.


You'll see the proof soon enough. just wait.

Nice to know you believe in a capricious, petty, arbitrary, and malicious god.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/20/2014 4:22:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The website is called debate.org not preach.org

We deal with attacking presuppositions and beliefs here, not assuming they are true and acting as if you are God.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/20/2014 4:37:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 4:22:19 PM, Envisage wrote:
The website is called debate.org not preach.org

We deal with attacking presuppositions and beliefs here, not assuming they are true and acting as if you are God.

It's true that it's called Debate.org, and there are formal debates that take place on this forum.

But are the Forums themselves specifically for debate?

If they are, please let me know.

In any case, debating the Scriptures is pointless. They are the revelation of God.
And they're to be declared with the utmost dogmatism.

I would rather just cease from participating on this forum altogether, than to present the Scriptures as something to be debated.

Please let me know if I'm in some way violating the rules here, and I'll be happy to leave the forum right away.

But if I'm not in violation of any rules, then I'll keep preaching that Jesus Christ is the only Savior, and without him, you'll burn in Hell for eternity.

---Sovereigngracereigns
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/20/2014 4:50:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 4:37:19 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:22:19 PM, Envisage wrote:
The website is called debate.org not preach.org

We deal with attacking presuppositions and beliefs here, not assuming they are true and acting as if you are God.

It's true that it's called Debate.org, and there are formal debates that take place on this forum.

But are the Forums themselves specifically for debate?

That is the primary nature of discussion on these forums.

If they are, please let me know.

Ok.

In any case, debating the Scriptures is pointless. They are the revelation of God.

And I reject your claim that they are revelation from God. In fact I make the positive claim that they are man made, and are not in nanny way divinely inspired, how do you plan to resolve this? The same applies to virtually any other non-believer and a large fraction of Christians.

And they're to be declared with the utmost dogmatism.

So you believe.

I would rather just cease from participating on this forum altogether, than to present the Scriptures as something to be debated.

Then please leave the site. The bible is fair game on this forum.

Please let me know if I'm in some way violating the rules here, and I'll be happy to leave the forum right away.

But if I'm not in violation of any rules, then I'll keep preaching that Jesus Christ is the only Savior, and without him, you'll burn in Hell for eternity.

I make the argument that 'eternal damnation in hell' as you describe it is logically incompatible with an omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent god. So if preaching is your aim then I will happily preach the antithesis and ignore debate.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/20/2014 4:55:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 10:14:23 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
These flaws cannot exist if there is a perfect god, which Christianity claims.
In a sense. Perfect implies best possible, not best imaginable.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/20/2014 5:00:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 4:22:19 PM, Envisage wrote:
We deal with attacking presuppositions and beliefs here, not assuming they are true and acting as if you are God.
I disagree. I have had a lot of good discussions with people on this site. People treat every conversations like a debate. Sometimes it's just about discussing a subject, finding out what's true and false, and reaching a common ground. That's the most effective way to gain understanding and change your opinions.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/20/2014 5:11:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 4:55:09 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:14:23 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
These flaws cannot exist if there is a perfect god, which Christianity claims.
In a sense. Perfect implies best possible, not best imaginable.

And an omnipotent god that is perfect can't do the best imaginable?
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/20/2014 5:17:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:11:32 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:55:09 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:14:23 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
These flaws cannot exist if there is a perfect god, which Christianity claims.
In a sense. Perfect implies best possible, not best imaginable.

And an omnipotent god that is perfect can't do the best imaginable
Is god omnipotent in the first place? To affirm your theory, we would need to be of the belief that god exists outside the context of reality. Someone on here said something convincing earlier regarding the BBT. Nothing is above reality. It is illogical to assume that a unreal entity can change a very real "reality". Which is why it is impossible for god to be omnipotent.

I have already expressed to you that I'm pantheist, so I easily see the fallacies of a omnipotent and benevolent god.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/20/2014 5:23:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:17:42 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:11:32 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:55:09 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:14:23 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
These flaws cannot exist if there is a perfect god, which Christianity claims.
In a sense. Perfect implies best possible, not best imaginable.

And an omnipotent god that is perfect can't do the best imaginable
Is god omnipotent in the first place? To affirm your theory, we would need to be of the belief that god exists outside the context of reality. Someone on here said something convincing earlier regarding the BBT. Nothing is above reality. It is illogical to assume that a unreal entity can change a very real "reality". Which is why it is impossible for god to be omnipotent.

I have already expressed to you that I'm pantheist, so I easily see the fallacies of a omnipotent and benevolent god.

Which is why I was not addressing you and even said in his view. I was showing him that his view (based on what I have seen of him) is flawed, not that every view is.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/20/2014 5:24:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:23:35 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
Which is why I was not addressing you and even said in his view. I was showing him that his view (based on what I have seen of him) is flawed, not that every view is.
I don't recall him calling god omnipotent, although I suspect he is of that belief.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/20/2014 5:28:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:24:40 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:23:35 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
Which is why I was not addressing you and even said in his view. I was showing him that his view (based on what I have seen of him) is flawed, not that every view is.
I don't recall him calling god omnipotent, although I suspect he is of that belief.

Not on this thread, but based off of how he has addressed his beliefs on this website show that he most likely does.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/20/2014 8:39:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 9:16:33 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
There are really only two options for a SINNER:

Either confess you are a sinner and find mercy in Jesus Christ,
or perish in your sins, and go to Hell.

Now, it's utterly amazing that anyone would choose the latter.
But they do. And here's why -- it's very simple:
Because they are blind and lost, and ignorant of what's right, and of what's true, and of what's good for themselves.

Now, if your precious "free will" is so important to you that you won't seek mercy for your sins, then God JUST to cast you into eternal hellfire.

And if you would rather die in your sins and go to Hell than bow to Christ, then you deserve what you get if you go to Hell.

And yet, GOD, in his MERCY, has chosen to SAVE a PEOPLE.
Not the whole world, but a particular people.

Not because of anything they might do, but by FREE, SOVEREIGN GRACE.
By unconditional election that can't be earned by the sinner in any way.

And God sent his own SON, who never sinned, to die for sinners,
and all those for whom he died are REDEEMED!

By his own precious blood, the Son of God redeemed his people.
And God sends his Spirit into the hearts of his people.

And the Spirit forms a new man, a new heart, and a new will,
that is conformed to the very image of Christ.

And that redeemed sinner will persevere, and be preserved by God's grace,
and will never experience God's wrath for his sins.

Isn't that AMAZING?

Isn't that the best news that a SINNER could ever hear, that there is MERCY and FORGIVENESS of SINS, in JESUS CHRIST?

Yet, MULTITUDES of people think their so-called "free will" is so important, that they'd rather go to HELL than have their "free wills" be "violated"!

Well, I thank GOD that MY WILL was "VIOLATED" by God's Spirit.
And that, as a result, all my sins are forgiven!

What Grace!
What MERCY!
My sins are ALL FORGIVEN!
And the same grace and mercy is for all those who believe in him.

It's Free Grace in Jesus Christ, or go to Hell with your "free will."

May God be pleased to "violate" your "free will".

There's only ONE option for a sinner. His flesh will perish so that his spirit can be freed to go on in Christ, which is where God's people were created as invisible vibrations.

There's no place called hell where God's people will go if they don't believe in a name. This is a religious idea that came out of the Babylonian Empire. All flesh will go back to the dust where it came from but All God's people will remain in Him forever and ever.