Total Posts:38|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The bible has many logical contradictions

mishapqueen
Posts: 3,995
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 8:44:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 11:33:35 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
I will argue the logical fallacies within the bible.

Go ahead!
You cannot choose whether or not you will live by rules, but you can choose which rules you will live by. --Me

"I was wrong. Squirrels are objectively superior to bunnies in every conceivable dimension."
--Joey

"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver" --PetersSmith

Nunc aut Numquam
Agnostic_Meatatarian
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 1:34:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift?
No, god is not omnipotent.
If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 8:46:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Only ignorant Bible thumpers and atheists believe literally in verses in the Bible. Both groups ignorant of using the Bible as metaphoric documentation of the movement of the Spirit of God through time and generations. That Movement is what documents the Spirit, not the characters in the stories or their ideas or that of priests, its the Pattern seen overall that confirms spiritual meaning to the Bible and other related texts documenting the movement of the Spirit of God through time. Now the Bible is obsolete completely as historical document and revealed as completely propagandistic in composure. Israeli archeology has proven the writers of the Bible were story-tellers making up a history they never had and it worked only because Rome took on Paul's Christianity which was attached to the Jewish Torah/Tanakh stories. Now billions still believe these Jewish myths of origin actually happened as told in the Bible. Makes our world unstable to have so many people believing in false history, e.g. all the mess in Gaza and Palestine happening because of erroneous belief in Bible myths. People die daily for Bible beliefs and that's why I teach Celestial Torah Christianity which recognizes the Bible for carrying the Celestial Torah Code within it but not ever as spiritual authority in and of itself.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 8:59:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

You are claiming that the Bible has logical contradictions. Can you cite where in the Bible it talks about God creating a rock he can't lift?
Agnostic_Meatatarian
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 3:38:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Omnipotence

Matthew 19:26 ESV

But Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Luke 1:37 ESV

For nothing will be impossible with God."

Jeremiah 32:27 ESV

"Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Job 42:2 ESV

"I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Mark 10:27 ESV

Jesus looked at them and said, "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God."

If all this is true God can create a rock he can't lift, if he can not create it then he is not all powerful, but if he can then he can't lift the rock and he is not all powerful.
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 3:39:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 11:33:35 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
I will argue the logical fallacies within the bible.

Go for it.
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 3:50:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

If God is truly omnipotent, he can create a rock so big that he can't lift it ... and then he'll lift it.

You might claim that this makes no logical sense, or that it's just a random conjunction of words.

It may be, but to be a true omnipotent being, one has to transcend the physical limitations of man that we are defined by. God surpasses such physical concepts as rocks and lifting, and even our precious logic. He can do what we think is impossible or logically incoherent, as that is what true omnipotence is.

Alternatively, you could interpret omnipotence as being only within the realms of logic, in which case the omnipotence paradox no longer applies.
Ruckmanite
Posts: 289
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 1:38:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

2 Timothy 2:23 says: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
Let your words be the genuine picture of your heart- John Wesley
Money is a horrid thing to follow, but a charming thing to meet-Henry James
Agnostic_Meatatarian
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 5:57:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Foolishness is relative, what I find foolish is when someone can believe in a bible full of fallacies. Then expect someone to take them seriously when they quote that same flawed book.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 11:23:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift?

God can only do that which is logically possible. That is how omnipotence has been defined since forever.

A heavier than a perfect being (God) could handle rock would be a logically impossible thing to create, so it wouldn't exist in the first place.

If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

God's mind is a logical entity which can't do logically impossible things, o the fact he can't create the rock is not a limit on his power.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 12:50:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 8:46:40 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Only ignorant Bible thumpers and atheists believe literally in verses in the Bible. Both groups ignorant of using the Bible as metaphoric documentation of the movement of the Spirit of God through time and generations. That Movement is what documents the Spirit, not the characters in the stories or their ideas or that of priests, its the Pattern seen overall that confirms spiritual meaning to the Bible and other related texts documenting the movement of the Spirit of God through time. Now the Bible is obsolete completely as historical document and revealed as completely propagandistic in composure. Israeli archeology has proven the writers of the Bible were story-tellers making up a history they never had and it worked only because Rome took on Paul's Christianity which was attached to the Jewish Torah/Tanakh stories. Now billions still believe these Jewish myths of origin actually happened as told in the Bible. Makes our world unstable to have so many people believing in false history, e.g. all the mess in Gaza and Palestine happening because of erroneous belief in Bible myths. People die daily for Bible beliefs and that's why I teach Celestial Torah Christianity which recognizes the Bible for carrying the Celestial Torah Code within it but not ever as spiritual authority in and of itself.

Please do try to understand that just because someone told you to read into the Bible, rather than reading it, doesn't make it wrong to read what it actually says. The problem is simply that if you read what it actually says, it's quite hilarious and obviously false, ignorant, out-dated, fictional garbage from ancient people with very little knowledge. So Christians have taken to trying to "fix" the Bible by not reading what it says, and instead, reading into it with whatever they prefer. And this has lead to over 38,000 officially accepted denominations - each one reading INTO the Bible, whatever they wish it to say.

And whenever they are shown what it ACTUALLY says, people like you laugh and look down upon us as being silly for reading the actual words, rather than trying to wrap those words around the meaning you prefer. The Bible IS filled with contradictions. And Christianity is filled with tens of thousands of divisive methods to avoid reading those contradictions.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 1:30:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 8:46:40 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Only ignorant Bible thumpers and atheists believe literally in verses in the Bible. Both groups ignorant of using the Bible as metaphoric documentation of the movement of the Spirit of God through time and generations. That Movement is what documents the Spirit, not the characters in the stories or their ideas or that of priests, its the Pattern seen overall that confirms spiritual meaning to the Bible and other related texts documenting the movement of the Spirit of God through time. Now the Bible is obsolete completely as historical document and revealed as completely propagandistic in composure. Israeli archeology has proven the writers of the Bible were story-tellers making up a history they never had and it worked only because Rome took on Paul's Christianity which was attached to the Jewish Torah/Tanakh stories. Now billions still believe these Jewish myths of origin actually happened as told in the Bible. Makes our world unstable to have so many people believing in false history, e.g. all the mess in Gaza and Palestine happening because of erroneous belief in Bible myths.

No, they don't. Not in the way you are stating it. How about, "erroneous beliefs in Bible truths"?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 1:32:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 1:38:55 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

2 Timothy 2:23 says: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

You got that right.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 1:37:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 12:50:16 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/22/2014 8:46:40 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Only ignorant Bible thumpers and atheists believe literally in verses in the Bible. Both groups ignorant of using the Bible as metaphoric documentation of the movement of the Spirit of God through time and generations. That Movement is what documents the Spirit, not the characters in the stories or their ideas or that of priests, its the Pattern seen overall that confirms spiritual meaning to the Bible and other related texts documenting the movement of the Spirit of God through time. Now the Bible is obsolete completely as historical document and revealed as completely propagandistic in composure. Israeli archeology has proven the writers of the Bible were story-tellers making up a history they never had and it worked only because Rome took on Paul's Christianity which was attached to the Jewish Torah/Tanakh stories. Now billions still believe these Jewish myths of origin actually happened as told in the Bible. Makes our world unstable to have so many people believing in false history, e.g. all the mess in Gaza and Palestine happening because of erroneous belief in Bible myths. People die daily for Bible beliefs and that's why I teach Celestial Torah Christianity which recognizes the Bible for carrying the Celestial Torah Code within it but not ever as spiritual authority in and of itself.

Please do try to understand that just because someone told you to read into the Bible, rather than reading it, doesn't make it wrong to read what it actually says.

Do you read the fables, parables, metaphors, etc. literally?

The problem is simply that if you read what it actually says, it's quite hilarious and obviously false, ignorant, out-dated, fictional garbage from ancient people with very little knowledge.

The reverse is true. When one reads it literally in all instances, he merely publicizes his ignorance.


And whenever they are shown what it ACTUALLY says, people like you laugh and look down upon us as being silly for reading the actual words, rather than trying to wrap those words around the meaning you prefer. The Bible IS filled with contradictions. And Christianity is filled with tens of thousands of divisive methods to avoid reading those contradictions.

Have you counted them? Or is this yet another of your unfounded assertions?

Your problem is this: when advances in certain fields necessitate a re-interpretation of certain passages, you scream, "Foul." Yet when "science" re-interprets certain of its theories, you call it "progress."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 1:51:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 1:37:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 12:50:16 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/22/2014 8:46:40 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Only ignorant Bible thumpers and atheists believe literally in verses in the Bible. Both groups ignorant of using the Bible as metaphoric documentation of the movement of the Spirit of God through time and generations. That Movement is what documents the Spirit, not the characters in the stories or their ideas or that of priests, its the Pattern seen overall that confirms spiritual meaning to the Bible and other related texts documenting the movement of the Spirit of God through time. Now the Bible is obsolete completely as historical document and revealed as completely propagandistic in composure. Israeli archeology has proven the writers of the Bible were story-tellers making up a history they never had and it worked only because Rome took on Paul's Christianity which was attached to the Jewish Torah/Tanakh stories. Now billions still believe these Jewish myths of origin actually happened as told in the Bible. Makes our world unstable to have so many people believing in false history, e.g. all the mess in Gaza and Palestine happening because of erroneous belief in Bible myths. People die daily for Bible beliefs and that's why I teach Celestial Torah Christianity which recognizes the Bible for carrying the Celestial Torah Code within it but not ever as spiritual authority in and of itself.

Please do try to understand that just because someone told you to read into the Bible, rather than reading it, doesn't make it wrong to read what it actually says.

Do you read the fables, parables, metaphors, etc. literally?
Not when they are labeled as such.

The problem is simply that if you read what it actually says, it's quite hilarious and obviously false, ignorant, out-dated, fictional garbage from ancient people with very little knowledge.

The reverse is true. When one reads it literally in all instances, he merely publicizes his ignorance.
That's not even possible. The Bible doesn't come with any kind of guide as to what is metaphor and what is literal. One can just as easily suggest that God, Jesus and Heaven are metaphorical. What one publicizes by reading what the Bible ACTUALLY claims, is the ignorance inherent in the BIble.

Any book which claims Earth existed before stars, is showing ignorance.
Any book which claims Plants were thriving at more than 400-degrees below zero, is showing ignorance.
Any book which claims liquid water existed at more than 400-degrees below zero, and without atmospheric pressure, is showing ignorance.
Any book which claims the moon is a "light", is showing ignorance.


And whenever they are shown what it ACTUALLY says, people like you laugh and look down upon us as being silly for reading the actual words, rather than trying to wrap those words around the meaning you prefer. The Bible IS filled with contradictions. And Christianity is filled with tens of thousands of divisive methods to avoid reading those contradictions.

Have you counted them? Or is this yet another of your unfounded assertions?
Once again Anna, Christianity officially accepts more than 38,000 different denominations, all founded on various interpretations of the Bible. So I don't need to count them, but they have been counted. And I'm being generous as that number is from 2008, and the number was growing. In all likelihood, it's over 40,000 by now.

Your problem is this: when advances in certain fields necessitate a re-interpretation of certain passages, you scream, "Foul." Yet when "science" re-interprets certain of its theories, you call it "progress."
That's because science is a methodology for objective learning, while the Bible claims itself to be the word of an all-knowing, perfect God. And when the Bible makes ridiculous simplifications which run to being completely inaccurate, Christians explain that had it been more accurate, people from 2,000 years ago wouldn't have understood. But when we find the Bible to simply be wrong, then you claim that the information was there all along, you just have to change what you read it to say. That's inherently dishonest, Anna... as are Christians themselves.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 5:09:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 1:51:53 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:37:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 12:50:16 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/22/2014 8:46:40 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Only ignorant Bible thumpers and atheists believe literally in verses in the Bible. Both groups ignorant of using the Bible as metaphoric documentation of the movement of the Spirit of God through time and generations. That Movement is what documents the Spirit, not the characters in the stories or their ideas or that of priests, its the Pattern seen overall that confirms spiritual meaning to the Bible and other related texts documenting the movement of the Spirit of God through time. Now the Bible is obsolete completely as historical document and revealed as completely propagandistic in composure. Israeli archeology has proven the writers of the Bible were story-tellers making up a history they never had and it worked only because Rome took on Paul's Christianity which was attached to the Jewish Torah/Tanakh stories. Now billions still believe these Jewish myths of origin actually happened as told in the Bible. Makes our world unstable to have so many people believing in false history, e.g. all the mess in Gaza and Palestine happening because of erroneous belief in Bible myths. People die daily for Bible beliefs and that's why I teach Celestial Torah Christianity which recognizes the Bible for carrying the Celestial Torah Code within it but not ever as spiritual authority in and of itself.

Please do try to understand that just because someone told you to read into the Bible, rather than reading it, doesn't make it wrong to read what it actually says.

Do you read the fables, parables, metaphors, etc. literally?
Not when they are labeled as such.

Labeled as such? Do you mean to inform us that in order for you to ascertain the presence or absence of certain literary devices, you require the writer to announce to you that "I am employing a metaphor here" or "the following is a fable"? It sure sounds like that is your requirement.


The problem is simply that if you read what it actually says, it's quite hilarious and obviously false, ignorant, out-dated, fictional garbage from ancient people with very little knowledge.

The reverse is true. When one reads it literally in all instances, he merely publicizes his ignorance.

That's not even possible. The Bible doesn't come with any kind of guide as to what is metaphor and what is literal. One can just as easily suggest that God, Jesus and Heaven are metaphorical. What one publicizes by reading what the Bible ACTUALLY claims, is the ignorance inherent in the BIble.

So the folks who wrote the most-read, most-quoted, all-time best-selling literature of all time were ... ignorant? Sir, by your absurd standards, most of the world's great literature would be appreciated only by the most ignorant. Here's some more of your "ignorant" literature:

"Life"s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury"

Is life a shadow, literally? A player? Is it on the stage? Then again, Shakespeare said, "All the world's stage" - but what did he know? He should have said, "Here comes a metaphor, folks. Watch out."

Do you read Hamlet or Macbeth and get all "confrused"? What about the Iliad? The Bible contains fables, parables, apocalypses, poetry, and virtually every other type of literature. Yet you insist on trying to read it all literally. That's "autistic hyperliteralism".

Any book which claims Earth existed before stars, is showing ignorance.

It doesn't. It is only by insisting on a specific order of events that you come up with that.

Any book which claims Plants were thriving at more than 400-degrees below zero, is showing ignorance.

And the palpable ignorance of such a scheme merely means that you, once again, insist on a specific, literal order of events.

Any book which claims liquid water existed at more than 400-degrees below zero, and without atmospheric pressure, is showing ignorance.

Ditto.

Any book which claims the moon is a "light", is showing ignorance.

Not worth a reply. The moon can be properly called a light.


And whenever they are shown what it ACTUALLY says, people like you laugh and look down upon us as being silly for reading the actual words, rather than trying to wrap those words around the meaning you prefer. The Bible IS filled with contradictions. And Christianity is filled with tens of thousands of divisive methods to avoid reading those contradictions.

Have you counted them? Or is this yet another of your unfounded assertions?

Once again Anna, Christianity officially accepts more than 38,000 different denominations, all founded on various interpretations of the Bible.

So I don't need to count them, but they have been counted.

By whom?

And I'm being generous as that number is from 2008, and the number was growing. In all likelihood, it's over 40,000 by now.

So? A collection of sixty-six books is subject to misinterpretation by illogical men. So to you, that's evidence that the book itself is wrong.

Your problem is this: when advances in certain fields necessitate a re-interpretation of certain passages, you scream, "Foul." Yet when "science" re-interprets certain of its theories, you call it "progress."

That's because science is a methodology for objective learning, while the Bible claims itself to be the word of an all-knowing, perfect God.

Observe that you do not deny the inequity. You hold the Bible to a different standard than anything else in the world.

And when the Bible makes ridiculous simplifications which run to being completely inaccurate, Christians explain that had it been more accurate, people from 2,000 years ago wouldn't have understood.

I've never made that statement. I have said that radical atheists purposefully misread the Bible, usually by insisting on a literal meaning even when they know full well that poetic devices were employed.

But when we find the Bible to simply be wrong, then you claim that the information was there all along, you just have to change what you read it to say. That's inherently dishonest, Anna... as are Christians themselves.

And that's a dishonest statement. I've never once said, "The information was there all along." Most likely, no conveyance of scientific information was ever even intended by the passage. Remember, you've given the entire DDO gang some startling evidence of your "honesty" when you informed us that adding an emphatic to a warning changed the substance of the warning. Remember that? When one adds, "Be thou certain" or "Know for certain" to a warning, it all changes.

The Bible was never intended to be a dissertation on science. Neither Moses nor anyone else ever thought that grape vines or olive trees thrived in the absence of sunlight. If you think the ancients did believe such things, then cite a few sources. (We'll never see those, by the way). Moses did not give a date or chronology for "in the beginning", either. Of course, science has confidently informed folks that the earth is 75,000 years old to 100,000,000 years old. I think now they are up around 4.5 billion. Who knows? When one gives himself a 4 billion-year lee-way, he's got a slight advantage. A scientist should, "In the beginning, the earth was created."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 5:36:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 5:09:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:51:53 PM, Beastt wrote:

Do you read the fables, parables, metaphors, etc. literally?
Not when they are labeled as such.

Labeled as such? Do you mean to inform us that in order for you to ascertain the presence or absence of certain literary devices, you require the writer to announce to you that "I am employing a metaphor here" or "the following is a fable"? It sure sounds like that is your requirement.

The problem, Anna, is that you don't apply logical standards to what you do, and don't read as a metaphor. I could accept that Jesus is a metaphor for the common good in people, however I'd have to throw out much of the story which then doesn't fit.

Poems are a good example and many people claim Genesis is poetry (though it's very bad poetry if it's poetry at all). Have 50 people read a poem and tell you what they think it means, and you'll probably get 50 different answers. That doesn't mean any of them are wrong because the poem is a general idea or feeling being presented by the author. It doesn't claim to be a historically factual account. The Bible does claim to be a historically factual account and yet contains many claims which are pure idiocy.

I'm not the one applying the chronology to Genesis. Genesis does that itself. If it didn't, you might have a way out. But it does. So you simply have to toss out the chronological framework upon which the entire account is based in order to try to claim that it's not insidiously stupid, false, ignorant and highly imaginative in the way a child's idea of clouds, rainbows and shooting stars tends to be imaginative.

So the folks who wrote the most-read, most-quoted, all-time best-selling literature of all time were ... ignorant?
Yes, Anna. Are you not familiar with what the word "ignorant" means? People have read the Bible for some 1650-years, and they have read parts of it since long before that. These people thought the sun orbited the Earth, that Earth was flat, that diseases were caused by evil spirits, that the patterns in the fur of goats reflected what their parents were viewing during copulation, that snakes could talk, 500-foot long wooden ships could stay afloat and a host of other clear absurdities, simply because they didn't know the truth. And not knowing, is the mark of ignorance. So yes, these people were horribly, HORRIBLY ignorant. And it doesn't matter how many people read those silly stories. Truth is not determined by how many people read, or even believe, a given claim.

Sir, by your absurd standards, most of the world's great literature would be appreciated only by the most ignorant. Here's some more of your "ignorant" literature:

Calm down, smooth your hackles and focus. The vast majority of the world's "great literature" is appreciated for what it is; creative, a craft woven with words, passionate, dramatic and interesting. Very little of it claims to be a message from a divine creator. You need to accept that distinction. Perhaps you should thumb through a true instructive manual sometime and see how many metaphors, fables and parables you find. You may find a few, but in each case, they will likely be labeled as such, to assure that silly people who can't tell the difference between reality and ridiculous fiction don't become confused.


As for the rest of your post, it's demonstrative of one of the reasons that it's so tiring to try to debate with you. You go on, and on, and on trying to make a single point, and never really present any evidence for any of the claims you make. Yes, the Bible has been read by many people. But take note of the fact that more people disbelieve it, than believe it. Shall we weigh that as evidence too?

Genesis does indeed make all of the claims I've stated, and if you'd care to debate that, then take them one at a time. I don't care to devote my entire day to an Anna-sponsored hormone fest... really I don't.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 5:56:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 5:36:27 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/23/2014 5:09:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:51:53 PM, Beastt wrote:

Do you read the fables, parables, metaphors, etc. literally?
Not when they are labeled as such.

Labeled as such? Do you mean to inform us that in order for you to ascertain the presence or absence of certain literary devices, you require the writer to announce to you that "I am employing a metaphor here" or "the following is a fable"? It sure sounds like that is your requirement.

The problem, Anna, is that you don't apply logical standards to what you do, and don't read as a metaphor. I could accept that Jesus is a metaphor for the common good in people, however I'd have to throw out much of the story which then doesn't fit.

Poems are a good example and many people claim Genesis is poetry (though it's very bad poetry if it's poetry at all). Have 50 people read a poem and tell you what they think it means, and you'll probably get 50 different answers. That doesn't mean any of them are wrong because the poem is a general idea or feeling being presented by the author. It doesn't claim to be a historically factual account. The Bible does claim to be a historically factual account and yet contains many claims which are pure idiocy.

I'm not the one applying the chronology to Genesis. Genesis does that itself. If it didn't, you might have a way out. But it does. So you simply have to toss out the chronological framework upon which the entire account is based in order to try to claim that it's not insidiously stupid, false, ignorant and highly imaginative in the way a child's idea of clouds, rainbows and shooting stars tends to be imaginative.

So the folks who wrote the most-read, most-quoted, all-time best-selling literature of all time were ... ignorant?
Yes, Anna. Are you not familiar with what the word "ignorant" means? People have read the Bible for some 1650-years, and they have read parts of it since long before that. These people thought the sun orbited the Earth, that Earth was flat, that diseases were caused by evil spirits, that the patterns in the fur of goats reflected what their parents were viewing during copulation, that snakes could talk, 500-foot long wooden ships could stay afloat and a host of other clear absurdities, simply because they didn't know the truth. And not knowing, is the mark of ignorance. So yes, these people were horribly, HORRIBLY ignorant. And it doesn't matter how many people read those silly stories. Truth is not determined by how many people read, or even believe, a given claim.

Sir, by your absurd standards, most of the world's great literature would be appreciated only by the most ignorant. Here's some more of your "ignorant" literature:

Calm down, smooth your hackles and focus. The vast majority of the world's "great literature" is appreciated for what it is; creative, a craft woven with words, passionate, dramatic and interesting. Very little of it claims to be a message from a divine creator. You need to accept that distinction. Perhaps you should thumb through a true instructive manual sometime and see how many metaphors, fables and parables you find. You may find a few, but in each case, they will likely be labeled as such, to assure that silly people who can't tell the difference between reality and ridiculous fiction don't become confused.


As for the rest of your post, it's demonstrative of one of the reasons that it's so tiring to try to debate with you.

Same here. I waited and waited and WAITED for you to prove your little assertions relating to, for instance, Mark 16: 9-20. About all you really know about it is: "The 'scholars' told me." You accept that as "evidence" - when it suits you.

After being asked the same very plain, actually very easy, questions regarding those verses - and asked six or eight times - I gave up. You do not know. Yet the next time I turn around, you are making the same unfounded statements on another thread. Fortunately, no one questioned you. The truth of the matter is that certain theological scholars do not like the theology of Mark 16: 16 as it relates to water baptism. That's all it amounts to. They will cite it as good scripture when it comes to sending missionaries (Mark 16: 15), but it becomes bad scripture at verse 16. You are merely parroting their comments, having not looked into the matter for yourself.

Sure, if you'd like to debate whether Mark 16: 9-20 was most likely included in the original text of Mark, I'd be happy to. If you want to call it "a very early addition", I'd like to see your proof of that. It's dollars-to-donuts that you aren't going to debate that, but you'll continue to make the assertion.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Agnostic_Meatatarian
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 7:43:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 11:23:43 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift?

God can only do that which is logically possible. That is how omnipotence has been defined since forever.

A heavier than a perfect being (God) could handle rock would be a logically impossible thing to create, so it wouldn't exist in the first place.

If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

God's mind is a logical entity which can't do logically impossible things, o the fact he can't create the rock is not a limit on his power.

Actually it is, I can't believe you won't see what is right in front of your face. If he can't do something then he is limited plain and simple.
Agnostic_Meatatarian
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 7:47:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 1:32:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:38:55 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

2 Timothy 2:23 says: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

You got that right.

You mean questions that disprove scripture and expose it for the bollocks that it is avoid those questions.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 9:49:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 7:47:15 AM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:32:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:38:55 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

2 Timothy 2:23 says: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

You got that right.

You mean questions that disprove scripture and expose it for the bollocks that it is avoid those questions.

No, I mean the outright stupid questions about God lifting a rock that He made. Queries like that stump the simple-minded, or rather, the simple-minded think they are brilliant questions.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 12:21:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 9:49:59 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/24/2014 7:47:15 AM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:32:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:38:55 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

2 Timothy 2:23 says: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

You got that right.

You mean questions that disprove scripture and expose it for the bollocks that it is avoid those questions.

No, I mean the outright stupid questions about God lifting a rock that He made. Queries like that stump the simple-minded, or rather, the simple-minded think they are brilliant questions.

lol. I got to the third post of this thread, did a face palm and hit the close window button. Too funny.

*for the dolts, I saw an anna response and opened the thread again.
Agnostic_Meatatarian
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 2:17:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 12:21:16 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/24/2014 9:49:59 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/24/2014 7:47:15 AM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:32:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:38:55 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

2 Timothy 2:23 says: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

You got that right.

You mean questions that disprove scripture and expose it for the bollocks that it is avoid those questions.

No, I mean the outright stupid questions about God lifting a rock that He made. Queries like that stump the simple-minded, or rather, the simple-minded think they are brilliant questions.

lol. I got to the third post of this thread, did a face palm and hit the close window button. Too funny.

*for the dolts, I saw an anna response and opened the thread again.

Well then would you be so kind to answer it then, since your not a simple minded person you should be able to blow that question out of the water.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 5:08:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 2:17:47 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
At 7/24/2014 12:21:16 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/24/2014 9:49:59 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/24/2014 7:47:15 AM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:32:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/23/2014 1:38:55 AM, Ruckmanite wrote:
At 7/20/2014 3:15:34 PM, Agnostic_Meatatarian wrote:
Well for one no one can do ANYTHING, for instance can God create a rock he can't lift? If you say no he can't create one or yes he can either way it means he can't do something.

2 Timothy 2:23 says: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

You got that right.

You mean questions that disprove scripture and expose it for the bollocks that it is avoid those questions.

No, I mean the outright stupid questions about God lifting a rock that He made. Queries like that stump the simple-minded, or rather, the simple-minded think they are brilliant questions.

lol. I got to the third post of this thread, did a face palm and hit the close window button. Too funny.

*for the dolts, I saw an anna response and opened the thread again.

Well then would you be so kind to answer it then, since your not a simple minded person you should be able to blow that question out of the water.

Life is way too short to indulge idiots. Sorry.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 5:36:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 1:51:53 PM, Beastt wrote:

Any book which claims Plants were thriving at more than 400-degrees below zero, is showing ignorance.

Err... I've always wondered what in the world atheists are talking about here? When in the early Earth history was the world 400 degrees below zero? has anyone ever seen any citations?

What verse is that that says the Earth was 400 degrees below zero? What website do atheists get these "facts" from?

Any book which claims liquid water existed at more than 400-degrees below zero, and without atmospheric pressure, is showing ignorance.

Ditto.

Any book which claims the moon is a "light", is showing ignorance.

Yet when I asked an atheist on this forum, "Have you ever used the term "moonlight"? He dodged and ran for four pages. Have you ever used the term moonlight? Have you ever said "sunrise"? Though I am a theist, I continue to insist that one does not have to become an idiot to be an atheist.

Stupidity as a debate tool convinces only the stupid who already agree with you. Wouldn't you like to be convincing to smart people? Or people who initially disagree with you?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 6:06:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
e.g. The Lord was with the men of Judah. They conquered29 the hill country, but
they could not30 conquer the people living in the coastal plain, because they
had chariots with iron-rimmed wheels.31 (Judges 1:19) NET Story book

So obviously Story book god is NOT Omnipotent; but as we read, is actually impotent
in the coastal plain and is also impotent against iron-wheel rimmed chariots and
is impotent against moi, and we successfully manage to ' keep out ' ALL
Supernatural gods, especially & including your imagined ones? LOL!