Total Posts:28|Showing Posts:1-28
Jump to topic:

How do you know that God is moral?

Fanath
Posts: 830
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?
Dude... Stop...
Fanath
Posts: 830
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 10:18:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

Omnibenelolent god vs. omnimalevolent god.
Dude... Stop...
DefenseoftheWay
Posts: 10
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

Well, you see, God is moral because he created the very morals we have. Now, can I prove that he isn't a hypocrite?

"Now the Lord had said to Abram: Get out of your country, from your family and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." {Gen. 12:1-3}

A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation. That nation is Israel. And guess what, Abraham's name still is great.

Another example why God is moral is this(Part of Genesis 19):

23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah"from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities"and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot"s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the Lord. 28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived.

Now, Sodom and Gomorrah was a corrupt city, for they practiced homosexuality and other evils most likely. Since God created morals, the only way to know if he cares about those 'rules' is taking action.

I also believe God is moral because of his Son, who all his teachings represent a perfect human.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 12:16:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

Well, you see, God is moral because he created the very morals we have. Now, can I prove that he isn't a hypocrite?

"Now the Lord had said to Abram: Get out of your country, from your family and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." {Gen. 12:1-3}

A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation. That nation is Israel. And guess what, Abraham's name still is great.

Another example why God is moral is this(Part of Genesis 19):

23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah"from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities"and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot"s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the Lord. 28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived.

Now, Sodom and Gomorrah was a corrupt city, for they practiced homosexuality and other evils most likely. Since God created morals, the only way to know if he cares about those 'rules' is taking action.


I also believe God is moral because of his Son, who all his teachings represent a perfect human.

What about the Amalekite genocide and the other genocides like that one, and the commands to leave virgin girls alive so that they can be raped?
DefenseoftheWay
Posts: 10
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 12:22:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 12:16:59 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

Well, you see, God is moral because he created the very morals we have. Now, can I prove that he isn't a hypocrite?

"Now the Lord had said to Abram: Get out of your country, from your family and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." {Gen. 12:1-3}

A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation. That nation is Israel. And guess what, Abraham's name still is great.

Another example why God is moral is this(Part of Genesis 19):

23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah"from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities"and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot"s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the Lord. 28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived.

Now, Sodom and Gomorrah was a corrupt city, for they practiced homosexuality and other evils most likely. Since God created morals, the only way to know if he cares about those 'rules' is taking action.


I also believe God is moral because of his Son, who all his teachings represent a perfect human.

What about the Amalekite genocide and the other genocides like that one, and the commands to leave virgin girls alive so that they can be raped?

You bring up a good argument, but understand that whether someone is punished on Earth or in Hell, they will receive their just rewards. Now, I need verses about the virgin girls.

About the Amalekites. Obviously they have done something to anger God or have disrespected his chosen people:

2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, "I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (1 Sam. 15:2-3).
PureX
Posts: 1,515
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 12:32:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
God is or is not moral by what criteria? Our own? And who are we to determine what is moral and what isn't?
Amoranemix
Posts: 521
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 1:48:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Fanath 1
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?
No. It is actually complicated.
Those who are interested in a related but more elaborated question of the question can find it at
http://www.debate.org...
where is asked for evidence for God's benevolence.

DefenseoftheWay 2
Well, you see, God is moral because he created the very morals we have. Now, can I prove that he isn't a hypocrite?
You only answered the first question. The other question was whether God is omnibenevolent.
Can you prove God created the morals we have ?
I suspect you can't prove he is not hypocritical.

DefenseoftheWay 2
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation. That nation is Israel. And guess what, Abraham's name still is great.
Is that a fact of just your personal opinion ?

DefenseoftheWay 2
Now, Sodom and Gomorrah was a corrupt city, for they practiced homosexuality and other evils most likely.[1] Since God created morals, the only way to know if he cares about those 'rules' is taking action.[2]
[1] Is that a fact of just your personal opinion ?
[2] You have committed an anecdotal fallacy. A story, even if true, were God supposedly behaved morally, does not prove he is moral, let alone omnibenevolent.

DefenseoftheWay 2
I also believe God is moral because of his Son, who all his teachings represent a perfect human.
Ok, but that is just a position of faith. Others may see Jesus as imperfect, or not God's son. Perhaps Jesus even had a great flaw : unconditional support for an evil god.

DefenseoftheWay 4
You bring up a good argument, but understand that whether someone is punished on Earth or in Hell, they will receive their just rewards.
What evidence can you present to support that claim ?

DefenseoftheWay 4
About the Amalekites. Obviously they have done something to anger God or have disrespected his chosen people:
Is there is double standard being used here ? Is it OK if the Israelites mistreat others, but not OK if others mistreat Israelites ?
If it the latter is not OK, why did God not prevent the Amalekites to oppose the Israelites ?

PureX
God is or is not moral by what criteria? Our own? And who are we to determine what is moral and what isn't?
Yes, our own.
We are intelligent social animals.
The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth.
DefenseoftheWay
Posts: 10
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 2:13:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 1:48:46 PM, Amoranemix wrote:
Fanath 1
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?
No. It is actually complicated.
Those who are interested in a related but more elaborated question of the question can find it at
http://www.debate.org...
where is asked for evidence for God's benevolence.

DefenseoftheWay 2
Well, you see, God is moral because he created the very morals we have. Now, can I prove that he isn't a hypocrite?
You only answered the first question. The other question was whether God is omnibenevolent.
Can you prove God created the morals we have ?
I suspect you can't prove he is not hypocritical.

DefenseoftheWay 2
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation. That nation is Israel. And guess what, Abraham's name still is great.
Is that a fact of just your personal opinion ?

Its a fact given that I provided a passage of scripture and that Abraham is part of the Torah of the Jews which still live on this earth.

DefenseoftheWay 2
Now, Sodom and Gomorrah was a corrupt city, for they practiced homosexuality and other evils most likely.[1] Since God created morals, the only way to know if he cares about those 'rules' is taking action.[2]
[1] Is that a fact of just your personal opinion ?
[2] You have committed an anecdotal fallacy. A story, even if true, were God supposedly behaved morally, does not prove he is moral, let alone omnibenevolent.

DefenseoftheWay 2
I also believe God is moral because of his Son, who all his teachings represent a perfect human.
Ok, but that is just a position of faith. Others may see Jesus as imperfect, or not God's son. Perhaps Jesus even had a great flaw : unconditional support for an evil god.

DefenseoftheWay 4
You bring up a good argument, but understand that whether someone is punished on Earth or in Hell, they will receive their just rewards.
What evidence can you present to support that claim ?

DefenseoftheWay 4
About the Amalekites. Obviously they have done something to anger God or have disrespected his chosen people:
Is there is double standard being used here ? Is it OK if the Israelites mistreat others, but not OK if others mistreat Israelites ?
If it the latter is not OK, why did God not prevent the Amalekites to oppose the Israelites ?

The Israelites did do a lot of wrong things, which is why God eventually handed them over to the Romans and other empires. They do not go without punishment.

PureX
God is or is not moral by what criteria? Our own? And who are we to determine what is moral and what isn't?
Yes, our own.
We are intelligent social animals.

And finally, the rest comes down to faith and review of Historical Science and scripture.
PureX
Posts: 1,515
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 3:55:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 1:48:46 PM, Amoranemix wrote:
PureX
God is or is not moral by what criteria? Our own? And who are we to determine what is moral and what isn't?
Yes, our own.
We are intelligent social animals.

We humans assess morality mostly by the criteria of that which contributes to our own well-being. Yet we define "God" as the creator and caretaker of all that exists. So I don't see how we can logically justify our passing moral any judgment on God.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 11:19:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation.

And a nation, that even to this day attacks children playing on a beach, is by you and your god's standards GREAT.

You can keep your god.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2014 10:19:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

I don't know, since the Christian God isn't omnibenevolent, the OP isn't referring to Him. I'll allow the people who believe in this God defend Him.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2014 10:23:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 11:19:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation.

And a nation, that even to this day attacks children playing on a beach, is by you and your god's standards GREAT.

You can keep your god.

12,000 unguided rockets sent into cities with thousands of children. That's cool. 4 kids hit by accident, become enraged.

Yeah, we will keep our God. Thanks.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2014 10:38:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/21/2014 10:23:02 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:19:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation.

And a nation, that even to this day attacks children playing on a beach, is by you and your god's standards GREAT.

You can keep your god.

12,000 unguided rockets sent into cities with thousands of children. That's cool. 4 kids hit by accident, become enraged.

Yeah, we will keep our God. Thanks.

You need to take your hand off your little cock and go speak to your witchdoctor, simpleton.

12,000 (LOL) unguided missiles that have killed very few people is justification for aiming your guided missile at 4 little kids and you and your god think that it is justified.

You are as pathetic as your god.

Congratulations.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/21/2014 12:05:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/21/2014 10:38:05 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:23:02 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:19:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation.

And a nation, that even to this day attacks children playing on a beach, is by you and your god's standards GREAT.

You can keep your god.

12,000 unguided rockets sent into cities with thousands of children. That's cool. 4 kids hit by accident, become enraged.

Yeah, we will keep our God. Thanks.

You need to take your hand off your little cock and go speak to your witchdoctor, simpleton.

If you aren't a simpleton how come you speak like one?

12,000 (LOL) unguided missiles that have killed very few people......

It is the intent that matters. That is why accidental murders get less time than deliberate ones. Your terrorist friends are TRYING to kill children. The fact that Israel has protected their children in no way absolves your terrorist friends from the evil they do.

....is justification....

Accidents don't need justification. If Israel wanted to kill terrorist children do you think the count would stand where it does? Stupidity will not assist you. All the terrorist idiots have to do is stop raining missiles down on Israeli civilians. If they won't, this is the consequence of their choice.

...for aiming your guided missile at 4 little kids and you and your god think that it is justified.

lol, you speak for God now? It was an accident Einstein. Israel uses missiles to protect its people, terrorists use their people to protect their missiles.

You are as pathetic as your god.

And you are as dishonest as yours.

Congratulations.

Thanks. Any comparison to God for me is highly flattering.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 1:10:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/21/2014 12:05:07 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:38:05 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:23:02 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:19:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation.

And a nation, that even to this day attacks children playing on a beach, is by you and your god's standards GREAT.

You can keep your god.

12,000 unguided rockets sent into cities with thousands of children. That's cool. 4 kids hit by accident, become enraged.

Yeah, we will keep our God. Thanks.

You need to take your hand off your little cock and go speak to your witchdoctor, simpleton.

If you aren't a simpleton how come you speak like one?

12,000 (LOL) unguided missiles that have killed very few people......

It is the intent that matters. That is why accidental murders get less time than deliberate ones. Your terrorist friends are TRYING to kill children. The fact that Israel has protected their children in no way absolves your terrorist friends from the evil they do.

....is justification....

Accidents don't need justification. If Israel wanted to kill terrorist children do you think the count would stand where it does? Stupidity will not assist you. All the terrorist idiots have to do is stop raining missiles down on Israeli civilians. If they won't, this is the consequence of their choice.

...for aiming your guided missile at 4 little kids and you and your god think that it is justified.

lol, you speak for God now? It was an accident Einstein. Israel uses missiles to protect its people, terrorists use their people to protect their missiles.

You are as pathetic as your god.

And you are as dishonest as yours.

Congratulations.

Thanks. Any comparison to God for me is highly flattering.

So is your god still telling the Israelites to rape the prepubescent girls. He's a big fan of that, according to his words.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 9:15:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 1:10:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2014 12:05:07 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:38:05 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:23:02 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:19:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation.

And a nation, that even to this day attacks children playing on a beach, is by you and your god's standards GREAT.

You can keep your god.

12,000 unguided rockets sent into cities with thousands of children. That's cool. 4 kids hit by accident, become enraged.

Yeah, we will keep our God. Thanks.

You need to take your hand off your little cock and go speak to your witchdoctor, simpleton.

If you aren't a simpleton how come you speak like one?

12,000 (LOL) unguided missiles that have killed very few people......

It is the intent that matters. That is why accidental murders get less time than deliberate ones. Your terrorist friends are TRYING to kill children. The fact that Israel has protected their children in no way absolves your terrorist friends from the evil they do.

....is justification....

Accidents don't need justification. If Israel wanted to kill terrorist children do you think the count would stand where it does? Stupidity will not assist you. All the terrorist idiots have to do is stop raining missiles down on Israeli civilians. If they won't, this is the consequence of their choice.

...for aiming your guided missile at 4 little kids and you and your god think that it is justified.

lol, you speak for God now? It was an accident Einstein. Israel uses missiles to protect its people, terrorists use their people to protect their missiles.

You are as pathetic as your god.

And you are as dishonest as yours.

Congratulations.

Thanks. Any comparison to God for me is highly flattering.

So is your god still telling the Israelites to rape the prepubescent girls. He's a big fan of that, according to his words.

Yes. And he has stopped beating his wife too.

lol. In all your years of trolling, have you ever convinced even one theist? Or even a person on the fence?

Exhibit #9

Notice how, just like DU'h, bully will not address a single point in the posts to which he responds?
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 9:26:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 9:15:53 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/22/2014 1:10:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2014 12:05:07 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:38:05 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:23:02 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:19:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation.

And a nation, that even to this day attacks children playing on a beach, is by you and your god's standards GREAT.

You can keep your god.

12,000 unguided rockets sent into cities with thousands of children. That's cool. 4 kids hit by accident, become enraged.

Yeah, we will keep our God. Thanks.

You need to take your hand off your little cock and go speak to your witchdoctor, simpleton.

If you aren't a simpleton how come you speak like one?

12,000 (LOL) unguided missiles that have killed very few people......

It is the intent that matters. That is why accidental murders get less time than deliberate ones. Your terrorist friends are TRYING to kill children. The fact that Israel has protected their children in no way absolves your terrorist friends from the evil they do.

....is justification....

Accidents don't need justification. If Israel wanted to kill terrorist children do you think the count would stand where it does? Stupidity will not assist you. All the terrorist idiots have to do is stop raining missiles down on Israeli civilians. If they won't, this is the consequence of their choice.

...for aiming your guided missile at 4 little kids and you and your god think that it is justified.

lol, you speak for God now? It was an accident Einstein. Israel uses missiles to protect its people, terrorists use their people to protect their missiles.

You are as pathetic as your god.

And you are as dishonest as yours.

Congratulations.

Thanks. Any comparison to God for me is highly flattering.

So is your god still telling the Israelites to rape the prepubescent girls. He's a big fan of that, according to his words.

Yes. And he has stopped beating his wife too.

lol. In all your years of trolling, have you ever convinced even one theist? Or even a person on the fence?

Exhibit #9

Notice how, just like DU'h, bully will not address a single point in the posts to which he responds?

Oh little boy are you still pulling that d*ck? Use the other one. You know you can't get that stupid just playing with ONE.

I've never even tried to convince a theist. Why would I?
You people will never ever ever know that death is the end and your god was living in your imagination, as was your heaven and the hell that made you so sh1t frightened.

You poor little things won't even get to regret your stupidity. Here is Old Paley in reverse.

I'll just get an amazing surprising, an afterlife, you will get an enormous surprise, that you worshiped the wrong god and you're going to hell anyway.

LMFAO.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 9:41:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?
God may or may not be omnibenevolent, but if he was, it would be impossible to know objective morality, without applying our own sentience. Which to other humans, is subjective.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 10:44:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 9:26:44 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/22/2014 9:15:53 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/22/2014 1:10:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2014 12:05:07 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:38:05 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2014 10:23:02 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:19:10 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation.

And a nation, that even to this day attacks children playing on a beach, is by you and your god's standards GREAT.

You can keep your god.

12,000 unguided rockets sent into cities with thousands of children. That's cool. 4 kids hit by accident, become enraged.

Yeah, we will keep our God. Thanks.

You need to take your hand off your little cock and go speak to your witchdoctor, simpleton.

If you aren't a simpleton how come you speak like one?

12,000 (LOL) unguided missiles that have killed very few people......

It is the intent that matters. That is why accidental murders get less time than deliberate ones. Your terrorist friends are TRYING to kill children. The fact that Israel has protected their children in no way absolves your terrorist friends from the evil they do.

....is justification....

Accidents don't need justification. If Israel wanted to kill terrorist children do you think the count would stand where it does? Stupidity will not assist you. All the terrorist idiots have to do is stop raining missiles down on Israeli civilians. If they won't, this is the consequence of their choice.

...for aiming your guided missile at 4 little kids and you and your god think that it is justified.

lol, you speak for God now? It was an accident Einstein. Israel uses missiles to protect its people, terrorists use their people to protect their missiles.

You are as pathetic as your god.

And you are as dishonest as yours.

Congratulations.

Thanks. Any comparison to God for me is highly flattering.

So is your god still telling the Israelites to rape the prepubescent girls. He's a big fan of that, according to his words.

Yes. And he has stopped beating his wife too.

lol. In all your years of trolling, have you ever convinced even one theist? Or even a person on the fence?

Exhibit #9

Notice how, just like DU'h, bully will not address a single point in the posts to which he responds?

Oh little boy are you still pulling that d*ck? Use the other one. You know you can't get that stupid just playing with ONE.

I've never even tried to convince a theist. Why would I?

You're a troll so you wouldn't even try.

You people will never ever ever know that death is the end and your god was living in your imagination, as was your heaven and the hell that made you so sh1t frightened.

I agree. We Christians will never, ever, ever know death.

You poor little things won't even get to regret your stupidity. Here is Old Paley in reverse.

That is so true. Jesus took all the regret for my stupidity. I'll never suffer the regret Which is why I dig the dude..

I'll just get an amazing surprising, an afterlife, you will get an enormous surprise, that you worshiped the wrong god and you're going to hell anyway.

LMFAO.

Exhibit #9a
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 10:52:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
12,000 (LOL) unguided missiles that have killed very few people is justification for aiming your guided missile at 4 little kids and you and your god think that it is justified.

You are as pathetic as your god.

Congratulations.

Let's all do what thang god wants.

Rape little girls.

Kill little boys.

Ahh thang's god loves. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 11:50:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 12:16:59 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

Well, you see, God is moral because he created the very morals we have. Now, can I prove that he isn't a hypocrite?

"Now the Lord had said to Abram: Get out of your country, from your family and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." {Gen. 12:1-3}

A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation. That nation is Israel. And guess what, Abraham's name still is great.

Another example why God is moral is this(Part of Genesis 19):

23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah"from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities"and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot"s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the Lord. 28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived.

Now, Sodom and Gomorrah was a corrupt city, for they practiced homosexuality and other evils most likely. Since God created morals, the only way to know if he cares about those 'rules' is taking action.


I also believe God is moral because of his Son, who all his teachings represent a perfect human.

What about the Amalekite genocide and the other genocides like that one, and the commands to leave virgin girls alive so that they can be raped?
The Amalekites were bent on the complete annihilation of the Israelites. They were also given warning that lasted about 400 years.

What scripture contained a command to rape?
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 12:03:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

1. Overall, do you consider life to be good?

2. How do you know the execution of Bin Laden was moral? Could we assume that a global majority was justified in their actions, and represented a greater morality than Laden supporters? Or, is the global law enforcement in question concerning their actions when dealing with war crimes?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 12:28:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 11:39:22 AM, DefenseoftheWay wrote:
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

Well, you see, God is moral because he created the very morals we have. Now, can I prove that he isn't a hypocrite?
So if I create a set of morals, they're automatically absolute morality, just because I created them?

Firstly, your God didn't create the morals by which societies live. Every country in the world has outlawed slavery. The Bible manuscripts were written over a period of more than 1,500 years and never got around to suggesting that slavery was immoral.

You can't make a case that God is moral because he created a moral code. So did Hitler. And you can't make a case that because God adhered to our standards of morality SOMETIMES, that he's therefore always moral. It's more important to note the times he promotes infanticide, rape, war, and even genocide, and to note that those are not moral actions.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 12:31:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 10:52:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
12,000 (LOL) unguided missiles that have killed very few people is justification for aiming your guided missile at 4 little kids and you and your god think that it is justified.

You are as pathetic as your god.

Congratulations.

Let's all do what thang god wants.

Rape little girls.

Kill little boys.

Ahh thang's god loves. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

There goes the goat bleat.

Exhibit #9b
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2014 2:31:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

"It is certain and indisputable that the creator of man is not like man because a powerless creature cannot create another being."

This should be obvious. If God created us, he cannot be like man. He must be superior, just like a painter is to his painting. The creation (painting) cannot be perfect while the creator (painter) is imperfect. It would make no logical sense.

"However perfect the picture may be, in comparison with the painter it is in the utmost degree of imperfection."

Again, this is true. The painter, in comparison to the painting, is practically perfect, as the painting does not even have a consciousness to comprehend even the most basic of things. Is that to say that the painter is perfect in reality? No, but he is perfect in relation to the picture.

"The contingent world is the source of imperfections: God is the origin of perfections. The imperfections of the contingent world are in themselves a proof of the perfections of God."

"For example, when you look at man, you see that he is weak. This very weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of the Eternal Almighty One, because, if there were no power, weakness could not be imagined. Then the weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of God; for if there were no power, there could be no weakness; so from this weakness it becomes evident that there is power in the world."

The same applies to poverty and ignorance. Necessarily, wealth and knowledge exist.

This is why God is omni-benevolent and not omni-malevolent.
Amoranemix
Posts: 521
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/19/2014 12:04:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
- DefenseoftheWay 2
Well, you see, God is moral because he created the very morals we have. Now, can I prove that he isn't a hypocrite?
- Amoranemix 7
You only answered the first question. The other question was whether God is omnibenevolent.
Can you prove God created the morals we have ?
I suspect you can't prove he is not hypocritical.
- DefenseoftheWay 7
[no response]
I thought so.

- DefenseoftheWay 2
A promise to Abraham stating that he would be in a sense, the father of a great nation. That nation is Israel. And guess what, Abraham's name still is great.
- Amoranemix 7
Is that a fact of just your personal opinion ?
- DefenseoftheWay 8
Its a fact given that I provided a passage of scripture and that Abraham is part of the Torah of the Jews which still live on this earth.
The quote you provided is the following :
"Now the Lord had said to Abram: Get out of your country, from your family and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." {Gen. 12:1-3}
How is that supposed to prove Abraham's name is still great ?

- DefenseoftheWay 2
Now, Sodom and Gomorrah was a corrupt city, for they practiced homosexuality and other evils most likely.[1] Since God created morals, the only way to know if he cares about those 'rules' is taking action.[2]
- Amoranemix 7
[1] Is that a fact of just your personal opinion ?
[2] You have committed an anecdotal fallacy. A story, even if true, were God supposedly behaved morally, does not prove he is moral, let alone omnibenevolent.
- DefenseoftheWay 8
[no response]
[1] My personal opinion is that Sodom and Gomorrah were not corrupt cities and were unlikely to practice more evil than other cities in the region, rendering your point moot.

- DefenseoftheWay 4
You bring up a good argument, but understand that whether someone is punished on Earth or in Hell, they will receive their just rewards.
Amoranemix 7
What evidence can you present to support that claim ?
- DefenseoftheWay 8

How could anyone remain unconvinced when confronted with such an overwhelming amount of evidence ?

- DefenseoftheWay 4
About the Amalekites. Obviously they have done something to anger God or have disrespected his chosen people:
- Amoranemix 7
Is there is double standard being used here ? Is it OK if the Israelites mistreat others, but not OK if others mistreat Israelites ?
If it the latter is not OK, why did God not prevent the Amalekites to oppose the Israelites ?
- DefenseoftheWay 8
The Israelites did do a lot of wrong things, which is why God eventually handed them over to the Romans and other empires. They do not go without punishment.
You forgot to answer my second question.
Which is preferable : to prevent evil, or to allow evil and punish the evil-doers ?

DefenseoftheWay 8
And finally, the rest comes down to faith and review of Historical Science and scripture.
Please present the review of Historical Science and scripture that shows God is omnibenevolent rather than omnimalevolent.

- Amoranemix 7
Yes, our own.
We are intelligent social animals.
- PureX 9
We humans assess morality mostly by the criteria of that which contributes to our own well-being.[1] Yet we define "God" as the creator and caretaker of all that exists.[2] So I don't see how we can logically justify our passing moral any judgment on God.[3]
[1] I disagree. Morality is about the importance one assigns to the well-being of others in relation to one's own well-being.
[2] I disagree. Definitions vary. God being a caretaker is controversial.
[3] Just apply the same logic as you would to anyone else. What does such moral evaluation conclude about God ?

ChosenWolf 19
God may or may not be omnibenevolent, but if he was, it would be impossible to know objective morality, without applying our own sentience. Which to other humans, is subjective.
If morality is subjective without God, then it is also subjective with God.

PeacefulChaos
"It is certain and indisputable that the creator of man is not like man because a powerless creature cannot create another being."
This should be obvious.[4] If God created us, he cannot be like man.[5] He must be superior, just like a painter is to his painting.[6] The creation (painting) cannot be perfect while the creator (painter) is imperfect.[7] It would make no logical sense.[8]
[4] It looks false to me.
[5] Can you prove that ? I agree though that God could be different than man.
[6] What evidence can you present to support that claim ?
[7] I think it can. It is just a matter of choosing the right criteria for perfection.
[8] Why is that ?

PeacefulChaos
"However perfect the picture may be, in comparison with the painter it is in the utmost degree of imperfection."
Again, this is true. The painter, in comparison to the painting, is practically perfect, as the painting does not even have a consciousness to comprehend even the most basic of things. Is that to say that the painter is perfect in reality? No, but he is perfect in relation to the picture.
Your mistake is that you are comparing two things that are incomparable (a painting and a painter) without
establishing criteria for comparison first. In addition you would have to be biased to choose criteria that make the painter perfect compared to the painting.

PeacefulChaos
"The contingent world is the source of imperfections: God is the origin of perfections. The imperfections of the contingent world are in themselves a proof of the perfections of God."[9]
"For example, when you look at man, you see that he is weak. This very weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of the Eternal Almighty One, because, if there were no power, weakness could not be imagined.[10] Then the weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of God[11]; for if there were no power, there could be no weakness; so from this weakness it becomes evident that there is power in the world."[12]
The same applies to poverty and ignorance. Necessarily, wealth and knowledge exist.
This is why God is omni-benevolent and not omni-malevolent.[13]
[9] Is that a fact or just your personal opinion ?
[10] That is a non-sequitur.
[11] How does that follow ?
[12] Power does not imply a god, let alone an omnibenevolent god.
[13] A parody of what seems to be your reasoning leads to an omnimalevolent god : Since man is strong, there must be weakness. Therefore God is omnimalevolent.
The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth.
Arasa
Posts: 380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/20/2014 12:07:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 10:18:05 AM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/20/2014 10:11:56 AM, Fanath wrote:
Pretty simple question. How could one justify an omnibnevolent god over an all evil one?

Omnibenelolent god vs. omnimalevolent god.

If you are interested in the topic, read up on the broad points of the Euthyphro Dilemma. It asks the question "Is something good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is good?" This essentially asks "Which came first, God or Morals?"
Well, we can't say before, because then something would transcend God. We can't really say after either, because that would imply that morals are subjective to whatever God is feeling at the moment.
Where we end up is the third option: If God and Morals were/are at the same time, then God IS goodness. So, if God IS goodness, and God is the moral authority, then the only way for God to exist and an omnimalevolent God to exist is for God's omnimalevolence to be merely subjective opinion. That is, those who believe differently would say that God is evil. Because there cannot be two monotheistic Gods, either the all-good exists, or the all-bad exists. The only way around it is to say that it is a matter of perspective.

But wait- doesn't that point to subjective morality? Well, in a weird way, it actually doesn't. Our ability to disagree does not mean that there is no right answer. If I say that 2+2=4, and you say that 2+2=5, that does not mean that 2+2 does not equal anything. If we say that God exists, then morals come from Him. If morals come from Him, then those morals must be absolute (at least for us, but that is another conversation).

Now, put it all together and here's where we arrive: If God exists, and there is only one God, then he must be omnibenevolent, as he is the source of morality, thereby making all that comes out of him to be good. (but if it sounds like I am pointing at subjective morals again, just back up to that paragraph above). The only way for an omnimalevolent monotheistic god to exist would be for morals to transcend the god. But then, where would morals have come from? So, for an omnimalevolent god to exist, there must be more than one god. If there is an omnimalevolent god, then there must be, by default, an omnibenevolent god that is superior to the omnimalevolent god, as one is objectively evil, and the other is objectively good.

My head is off kilter at that response as well. It is certainly a fun thing to think about
August Rasa, a 4:53 mind