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Pre-Jesus Jews in Heaven?

bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
Posts: 36,303
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7/20/2014 2:03:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?

Interesting thought experiment. Denying Jesus's being the messiah would be akin to challenging God, which got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. But, it would be improbable that anyone who was in heaven would deny Jesus, given that they would be in heaven.
Tsar of DDO
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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7/20/2014 2:05:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:03:35 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?

Interesting thought experiment. Denying Jesus's being the messiah would be akin to challenging God, which got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. But, it would be improbable that anyone who was in heaven would deny Jesus, given that they would be in heaven.

But then why are these Jews "shown" absolute proof that Jesus is God, but all of us unlucky post-Jesus Jews get screwed over?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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7/20/2014 2:08:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Presumably the fair thing to do would be to reincarnate anyone who died prior to Jesus's birth and re-test them.

Although is Jesus's birth the correct cutoff point where not believing in Jesus gets you sent to Hell? Is there some notice requirement, like you can't really be held responsible for not believing in Jesus until the Bible was consolidated?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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7/20/2014 2:12:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Presumably someone who was born prior to when Judaism become an organized religion (around 1800 BC) should also be reincarnated and given a second shot at believing in God.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
Posts: 36,303
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7/20/2014 2:14:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:05:53 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:03:35 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?

Interesting thought experiment. Denying Jesus's being the messiah would be akin to challenging God, which got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. But, it would be improbable that anyone who was in heaven would deny Jesus, given that they would be in heaven.

But then why are these Jews "shown" absolute proof that Jesus is God, but all of us unlucky post-Jesus Jews get screwed over?

Because they would already be in heaven, whereas those on earth are not.
Tsar of DDO
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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7/20/2014 2:19:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:14:32 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:05:53 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:03:35 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?

Interesting thought experiment. Denying Jesus's being the messiah would be akin to challenging God, which got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. But, it would be improbable that anyone who was in heaven would deny Jesus, given that they would be in heaven.

But then why are these Jews "shown" absolute proof that Jesus is God, but all of us unlucky post-Jesus Jews get screwed over?

Because they would already be in heaven, whereas those on earth are not.

So did God honor beliefs from pre-Judaism religions before Judaism was established? If you followed the tenets of whatever your religion was at the time, you got into heaven?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/20/2014 2:28:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?

well from Islamic prospective who followed Moses and Jesus have salvation... and its irrational the prophets before jesus didnt think that Jesus is God or something like that... even Jesus himself rejected that lol.. anway...
Never fart near dog
YYW
Posts: 36,303
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7/20/2014 2:37:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:19:45 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:14:32 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:05:53 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:03:35 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?

Interesting thought experiment. Denying Jesus's being the messiah would be akin to challenging God, which got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. But, it would be improbable that anyone who was in heaven would deny Jesus, given that they would be in heaven.

But then why are these Jews "shown" absolute proof that Jesus is God, but all of us unlucky post-Jesus Jews get screwed over?

Because they would already be in heaven, whereas those on earth are not.

So did God honor beliefs from pre-Judaism religions before Judaism was established?

Now that is a question I just can't answer. From a theological perspective, there are contrasting approaches. One approach is to say that in that God chose not to reveal himself to those who preceded Judaism, he condemned them by implication. Another perspective (the unitarian one) is to argue that God's not revealing himself to certain people does not condemn them to damnation, but imposes on them a different standard for salvation which is contingent upon their particular circumstance.

If you followed the tenets of whatever your religion was at the time, you got into heaven?

If the unitarian perspective holds, yes. Otherwise, no.
Tsar of DDO
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/20/2014 5:47:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There's no need for anyone to worry their heads about Bible contradictions as the whole works is phony baloney if you're trying to make religious sense out of it. But being the hoarific cultural idol holding millions of believers together it's got a clout that still makes it the most dangerous book in the world outside of Muhammad's Quran. We can see the dead bodies these so-called "holy books" create in believers on your TV screens today or yesterday, very likely tomorrow too, as our Zionist and Muslim killer apes act out their religious terrorism, thinking this is of God?

Bluesteel, forget Judaism's propaganda, no to 1800 BC origin as Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman still cannot find ANY traces of Hebrews as a distinct separate ethnic group in ancient Canaan before 700 BC. All those Bible stories of earlier unbelievable events and characters are just that, Jewish myths of origin that never occurred. E.g. Moses and the Exodus Story being a reversal of real history of Israelite humiliation after being kicked out of Egypt as part of the failed Hyksos invaders, archeological proof of Israelites in Avaris, the Hyksos capital in Egypt.

Christianity is the real root religion of Judaism and not the other way around. You find this out when you learn where priests of Judah stole their major "Judaism" tenets such as the Torah for example. No rabbi today can tell you the true historical origin of Judaism's main doctrine, the Torah, where the word came from. Jews and Christians following Jews and thus the world are taught Torah is Hebrew. Uh-uh. It's Egyptian. I teach Celestial Torah Christianity, the world's oldest religious consciousness.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/20/2014 5:50:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?
In my personal beliefs, anyone can get kicked out of heaven, but the idea isn't conventional praising of god that determines your fate.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/20/2014 8:41:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person -- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?

We're all God's people ( Israel ) and we're all saved from our wicked flesh as it perishes so our spirit will be free in Christ, which is our created existence in the mind of our invisible Creator.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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7/21/2014 6:14:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:00:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Presumably, a Jewish person who died before Jesus's birth would go to Heaven as long as said person believed in God. Now presume this person

Belief in God was not the only requirement. Belief in a coming Messiah and obedience to the commands of God were further requirements.

-- in Heaven -- refuses to accept that Jesus is God. Does this Jew get kicked out of Heaven?

That would be impossible.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."