Total Posts:148|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Give Your BEST Argument For God's Existence!

celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:03:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
God is the logical and thus inevitable evolution of Life developing Intelligence which will ultimately figure out how to turn thought into matter, i.e. the functional power of God. We've had the Idea for this for thousands of years, God turning thought into matter and it was dramatized in the Star Trek proto-type movie made in 1958, Forbidden Planet as the Krell Machine which could do just that: turn thoughts into matter. Look at our human progress in the last 200 years and project that rate of knowledge acquisition and power into the centuries ahead, from wood and coal fires to nuclear energy, from horse and buggies to rockets to landing on the moon and space ships to planets and beyond. In just 200 years. What can we do in 2000 years?
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:08:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Verily I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father." -Jn 14:12
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:22:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
1. everything that begins to exist, has a cause
2. the Universe began to exist
3. therefore the Universe has a cause

A conceptual analysis of the properties this cause must have allows us to discover that it must be timeless, immaterial, enormously powerful, and personal.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:23:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:03:07 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
God is the logical and thus inevitable evolution of Life developing Intelligence which will ultimately figure out how to turn thought into matter, i.e. the functional power of God. We've had the Idea for this for thousands of years, God turning thought into matter and it was dramatized in the Star Trek proto-type movie made in 1958, Forbidden Planet as the Krell Machine which could do just that: turn thoughts into matter. Look at our human progress in the last 200 years and project that rate of knowledge acquisition and power into the centuries ahead, from wood and coal fires to nuclear energy, from horse and buggies to rockets to landing on the moon and space ships to planets and beyond. In just 200 years. What can we do in 2000 years?

a.) God is necessary for evolution to take place
b.) God is necessary for intelligent life forms to evolve from non living material
c.) God is necessary for the formation of matter
d.) God is necessary for a proposed spike in intelligence

Am I missing and argument or failing to define a point?
1.) So far these are all god of the gaps fallacies
2.) and moreover you seem to think evolution is divine, which demands some verification as such would be deserving of a nobel prize
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:27:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

The intelligence, order, and interdependency in the universe along with the beginning of existence necessitates a designer of some kind. It would also explain why good and evil exist: or in other words "objective morality".
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:31:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:23:51 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:03:07 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
God is the logical and thus inevitable evolution of Life developing Intelligence which will ultimately figure out how to turn thought into matter, i.e. the functional power of God. We've had the Idea for this for thousands of years, God turning thought into matter and it was dramatized in the Star Trek proto-type movie made in 1958, Forbidden Planet as the Krell Machine which could do just that: turn thoughts into matter. Look at our human progress in the last 200 years and project that rate of knowledge acquisition and power into the centuries ahead, from wood and coal fires to nuclear energy, from horse and buggies to rockets to landing on the moon and space ships to planets and beyond. In just 200 years. What can we do in 2000 years?


a.) God is necessary for evolution to take place
b.) God is necessary for intelligent life forms to evolve from non living material
c.) God is necessary for the formation of matter
d.) God is necessary for a proposed spike in intelligence

Am I missing and argument or failing to define a point?

Me: Yeah, big time, why the diversions from the logic of history?

1.) So far these are all god of the gaps fallacies

Me: Again, why the diversion from the logic of history?

2.) and moreover you seem to think evolution is divine, which demands some verification as such would be deserving of a nobel prize

Explain why human beings as animal species need to worship a God of Love and Mercy? How did that come about? And why? When you figure it out, you'll know why God evolved the "God Gene" into our brain structure and why Christianity is God's method of pacifying human beings so that they evolve out of animal territorial warfare behavior patterns to stop global warfare as we stopped other gross primitive human activities like cannibalism.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:36:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:22:21 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
1. everything that begins to exist, has a cause
2. the Universe began to exist
3. therefore the Universe has a cause

A conceptual analysis of the properties this cause must have allows us to discover that it must be timeless, immaterial, enormously powerful, and personal.

Even stating the universe needs a cause, does not argue for a creator as shown in the following
A.) Causes which are unknown cannot be shown to exist
B.) We do not know what cause the universe
C.) The Cause of the Universe cannot be shown to exist
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:39:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:22:21 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
1. everything that begins to exist, has a cause
2. the Universe began to exist
3. therefore the Universe has a cause

A conceptual analysis of the properties this cause must have allows us to discover that it must be timeless, immaterial, enormously powerful, and personal.

Debate me on this argument.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:44:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:27:46 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

The intelligence, order, and interdependency in the universe along with the beginning of existence necessitates a designer of some kind. It would also explain why good and evil exist: or in other words "objective morality".

1.) That which is complex needs a creator
2.) intelligence is complex
3.) intelligence needs a creator

4,) that which does not need a creator is simple, and unintelligent
5.) god doesn't need a creator
6.) god is simple and unintelligent

7.) that which is contradictory cannot exist logically
8.) god is contradictory
9.) god cannot exist logically
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:50:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:22:21 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
1. everything that begins to exist, has a cause
2. the Universe began to exist
3. therefore the Universe has a cause

A conceptual analysis of the properties this cause must have allows us to discover that it must be timeless, immaterial, enormously powerful, and personal.

In fact I already have a debate open for this topic:
http://www.debate.org...

Help yourself.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 5:55:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:31:41 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:23:51 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:03:07 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
God is the logical and thus inevitable evolution of Life developing Intelligence which will ultimately figure out how to turn thought into matter, i.e. the functional power of God. We've had the Idea for this for thousands of years, God turning thought into matter and it was dramatized in the Star Trek proto-type movie made in 1958, Forbidden Planet as the Krell Machine which could do just that: turn thoughts into matter. Look at our human progress in the last 200 years and project that rate of knowledge acquisition and power into the centuries ahead, from wood and coal fires to nuclear energy, from horse and buggies to rockets to landing on the moon and space ships to planets and beyond. In just 200 years. What can we do in 2000 years?


a.) God is necessary for evolution to take place
b.) God is necessary for intelligent life forms to evolve from non living material
c.) God is necessary for the formation of matter
d.) God is necessary for a proposed spike in intelligence

Am I missing and argument or failing to define a point?

Me: Yeah, big time, why the diversions from the logic of history?

I just don't see the argument, what is the premise and conclusion? why is god necessary? why not luck or anything more reasonable that a magical creator of time and space to explain....history

1.) So far these are all god of the gaps fallacies

Me: Again, why the diversion from the logic of history?

again maybe I am still missing it but it just seems like a very weak argument. If I am dead wrong you will be able to put it in premise/conclusion terms

2.) and moreover you seem to think evolution is divine, which demands some verification as such would be deserving of a nobel prize

Explain why human beings as animal species need to worship a God of Love and Mercy? How did that come about? And why? When you figure it out, you'll know why God evolved the "God Gene" into our brain structure and why Christianity is God's method of pacifying human beings so that they evolve out of animal territorial warfare behavior patterns to stop global warfare as we stopped other gross primitive human activities like cannibalism.

Are you kidding me, when god was thought up, people spit on wounds for a cure.
People swore lightning was thor until we learned better, now we just attribute the day thursday to such fantasy, just we did for the sun god, by the way I hope your having a great sun day.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:00:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 5:44:04 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:27:46 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

The intelligence, order, and interdependency in the universe along with the beginning of existence necessitates a designer of some kind. It would also explain why good and evil exist: or in other words "objective morality".

1.) That which is complex needs a creator
2.) intelligence is complex
3.) intelligence needs a creator

4,) that which does not need a creator is simple, and unintelligent
5.) god doesn't need a creator
6.) god is simple and unintelligent

7.) that which is contradictory cannot exist logically
8.) god is contradictory
9.) god cannot exist logically

Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent. Therefore something existed eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Given the order, intelligence, and Interdependency in the universe, that cause must be God.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:11:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:00:00 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:44:04 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:27:46 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

The intelligence, order, and interdependency in the universe along with the beginning of existence necessitates a designer of some kind. It would also explain why good and evil exist: or in other words "objective morality".

1.) That which is complex needs a creator
2.) intelligence is complex
3.) intelligence needs a creator

4,) that which does not need a creator is simple, and unintelligent
5.) god doesn't need a creator
6.) god is simple and unintelligent

7.) that which is contradictory cannot exist logically
8.) god is contradictory
9.) god cannot exist logically

Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent. Therefore something existed eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Given the order, intelligence, and Interdependency in the universe, that cause must be God.

Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came

A.) that which comes from Absolute nothing was caused by something else
B.) god did not come from Absolute Nothing
C.) God was caused by something else

Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent
A.) everything that begins to exist without something pre existent
B.) existence is without something pre existent
C.) existence never began to exist

We see in the above why this logic is not applicable to existence itself
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:12:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:11:14 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:00:00 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:44:04 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:27:46 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

The intelligence, order, and interdependency in the universe along with the beginning of existence necessitates a designer of some kind. It would also explain why good and evil exist: or in other words "objective morality".

1.) That which is complex needs a creator
2.) intelligence is complex
3.) intelligence needs a creator

4,) that which does not need a creator is simple, and unintelligent
5.) god doesn't need a creator
6.) god is simple and unintelligent

7.) that which is contradictory cannot exist logically
8.) god is contradictory
9.) god cannot exist logically

Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent. Therefore something existed eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Given the order, intelligence, and Interdependency in the universe, that cause must be God.


Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came

A.) that which comes from Absolute nothing was caused by something else
B.) god did not come from Absolute Nothing
C.) God was caused by something else

Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent
A.) everything that begins to exist without something pre existent
B.) existence is without something pre existent
C.) existence never began to exist

We see in the above why this logic is not applicable to existence itself

edit
Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent
A.) everything that begins to exist requires something pre existent
B.) existence is without something pre existent
C.) existence never began to exist

We see in the above why this logic is not applicable to existence itself
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:16:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:11:14 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:00:00 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:44:04 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 5:27:46 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

The intelligence, order, and interdependency in the universe along with the beginning of existence necessitates a designer of some kind. It would also explain why good and evil exist: or in other words "objective morality".

1.) That which is complex needs a creator
2.) intelligence is complex
3.) intelligence needs a creator

4,) that which does not need a creator is simple, and unintelligent
5.) god doesn't need a creator
6.) god is simple and unintelligent

7.) that which is contradictory cannot exist logically
8.) god is contradictory
9.) god cannot exist logically

Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent. Therefore something existed eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Given the order, intelligence, and Interdependency in the universe, that cause must be God.


Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came

A.) that which comes from Absolute nothing was caused by something else
B.) god did not come from Absolute Nothing
C.) God was caused by something else

Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent
A.) everything that begins to exist without something pre existent
B.) existence is without something pre existent
C.) existence never began to exist

We see in the above why this logic is not applicable to existence itself

No.. If nothing was caused by anything to begin to exist then exists eternally.

Eternally existed requires no pre-existence hence "eternal existence"
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:19:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

Response:

Hypothesis: A repeating pattern can only originate from choice.

Test subject: You.

Experiment: Draw a simple checkerboard pattern without choosing to do so (Non-choice).

Conclusion: You failed.

Thus you have firsthand evidence that a repeating pattern cannot originate from non-choice, but choice. As such the repeating patterns in the universe and life itself originated from choice, proving God's existence.

Common atheist/agnostic rebuttal:

Atheists/Agnostics say:We do have evidence of non-choice creating repeating patterns. Crystals, snowflakes, etc..

Response: If stating that non-choice can produce a repeating pattern because you have examples such as crystals, snowflakes, etc., then stating that non-choice CANNOT produce a repeating pattern is also true because we have an example of it not working (your own failure to draw a simple checkerboard without choice). As such, the argument for non-choice fails since it contradicts. Leaving the option of choice as the answer.

Thus the evidence is clear that a repeating pattern can only originate from choice, proving that the repeating patterns in the universe and life itself originate from choice. Proving the existence of God.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:25:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent. Therefore something existed eternally to be the thing from which everything else came. Given the order, intelligence, and Interdependency in the universe, that cause must be God.


Everything either came from absolute nothing or something existing eternally to be the thing from which everything else came

A.) that which comes from Absolute nothing was caused by something else
B.) god did not come from Absolute Nothing
C.) God was caused by something else

Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent
A.) everything that begins to exist without something pre existent
B.) existence is without something pre existent
C.) existence never began to exist

We see in the above why this logic is not applicable to existence itself

No.. If nothing was caused by anything to begin to exist then exists eternally.

Eternally existed requires no pre-existence hence "eternal existence"

A) Eternal existence either came from nothing or something
B) Nothing comes from nothing
C.) Eternal existence came from something
D.) Eternal existence never needed creating
See this is still a problem which cannot be plugged with a deity...
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:30:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:19:49 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

Response:

Hypothesis: A repeating pattern can only originate from choice.

Test subject: You.

Experiment: Draw a simple checkerboard pattern without choosing to do so (Non-choice).

Conclusion: You failed.

Thus you have firsthand evidence that a repeating pattern cannot originate from non-choice, but choice. As such the repeating patterns in the universe and life itself originated from choice, proving God's existence.

Common atheist/agnostic rebuttal:

Atheists/Agnostics say:We do have evidence of non-choice creating repeating patterns. Crystals, snowflakes, etc..

Response: If stating that non-choice can produce a repeating pattern because you have examples such as crystals, snowflakes, etc., then stating that non-choice CANNOT produce a repeating pattern is also true because we have an example of it not working (your own failure to draw a simple checkerboard without choice). As such, the argument for non-choice fails since it contradicts. Leaving the option of choice as the answer.

Thus the evidence is clear that a repeating pattern can only originate from choice, proving that the repeating patterns in the universe and life itself originate from choice. Proving the existence of God.

If the pattern of the snowflake is natural so is the pattern of my brain so I cannot make a choice
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:35:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Nothing begins to exist without something pre-existent
A.) everything that begins to exist without something pre existent
B.) existence is without something pre existent
C.) existence never began to exist

We see in the above why this logic is not applicable to existence itself

No.. If nothing was caused by anything to begin to exist then exists eternally.

Eternally existed requires no pre-existence hence "eternal existence"

Do you see that all you are saying is that....
A) everything either came from nothing or doesn't need a creator?
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:41:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:30:05 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:19:49 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

Response:

Hypothesis: A repeating pattern can only originate from choice.

Test subject: You.

Experiment: Draw a simple checkerboard pattern without choosing to do so (Non-choice).

Conclusion: You failed.

Thus you have firsthand evidence that a repeating pattern cannot originate from non-choice, but choice. As such the repeating patterns in the universe and life itself originated from choice, proving God's existence.

Common atheist/agnostic rebuttal:

Atheists/Agnostics say:We do have evidence of non-choice creating repeating patterns. Crystals, snowflakes, etc..

Response: If stating that non-choice can produce a repeating pattern because you have examples such as crystals, snowflakes, etc., then stating that non-choice CANNOT produce a repeating pattern is also true because we have an example of it not working (your own failure to draw a simple checkerboard without choice). As such, the argument for non-choice fails since it contradicts. Leaving the option of choice as the answer.

Thus the evidence is clear that a repeating pattern can only originate from choice, proving that the repeating patterns in the universe and life itself originate from choice. Proving the existence of God.

If the pattern of the snowflake is natural so is the pattern of my brain so I cannot make a choice

Response: Then if you can't make a choice, then asking for evidence is illogical, since you can't choose to accept it or not.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:46:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:41:07 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:30:05 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:19:49 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 4:44:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
I'm Waiting.....

Response:

Hypothesis: A repeating pattern can only originate from choice.

Test subject: You.

Experiment: Draw a simple checkerboard pattern without choosing to do so (Non-choice).

Conclusion: You failed.

Thus you have firsthand evidence that a repeating pattern cannot originate from non-choice, but choice. As such the repeating patterns in the universe and life itself originated from choice, proving God's existence.

Common atheist/agnostic rebuttal:

Atheists/Agnostics say:We do have evidence of non-choice creating repeating patterns. Crystals, snowflakes, etc..

Response: If stating that non-choice can produce a repeating pattern because you have examples such as crystals, snowflakes, etc., then stating that non-choice CANNOT produce a repeating pattern is also true because we have an example of it not working (your own failure to draw a simple checkerboard without choice). As such, the argument for non-choice fails since it contradicts. Leaving the option of choice as the answer.

Thus the evidence is clear that a repeating pattern can only originate from choice, proving that the repeating patterns in the universe and life itself originate from choice. Proving the existence of God.

If the pattern of the snowflake is natural so is the pattern of my brain so I cannot make a choice

Response: Then if you can't make a choice, then asking for evidence is illogical, since you can't choose to accept it or not.

Why would I accept evidence if I had choice. The evidence would be my arbiter, considering choice would require one answers why they chose evidence worthy, and why they chose worthiness important, and why they chose importance over unimportance, which would always result in an artibtrary pattern which was either chosen by the pattern or by another pattern which is either random or by another pattern ad infinitum..
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:49:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:

Why would I accept evidence if I had choice. The evidence would be my arbiter, considering choice would require one answers why they chose evidence worthy, and why they chose worthiness important, and why they chose importance over unimportance, which would always result in an artibtrary pattern which was either chosen by the pattern or by another pattern which is either random or by another pattern ad infinitum..

Response: You would accept evidence if you had choice if you are a supporter of truth. So whether you choose to accept it or not does not change that the evidence was presented.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 6:56:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:49:34 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:

Why would I accept evidence if I had choice. The evidence would be my arbiter, considering choice would require one answers why they chose evidence worthy, and why they chose worthiness important, and why they chose importance over unimportance, which would always result in an artibtrary pattern which was either chosen by the pattern or by another pattern which is either random or by another pattern ad infinitum..

Response: You would accept evidence if you had choice if you are a supporter of truth. So whether you choose to accept it or not does not change that the evidence was presented.

Whether I chose to accept it or not is based either on another pattern of choices which were either chosen by the pattern itself or by another pattern which is either random ad infinitum..
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 7:03:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:56:19 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:49:34 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:

Why would I accept evidence if I had choice. The evidence would be my arbiter, considering choice would require one answers why they chose evidence worthy, and why they chose worthiness important, and why they chose importance over unimportance, which would always result in an artibtrary pattern which was either chosen by the pattern or by another pattern which is either random or by another pattern ad infinitum..

Response: You would accept evidence if you had choice if you are a supporter of truth. So whether you choose to accept it or not does not change that the evidence was presented.

Whether I chose to accept it or not is based either on another pattern of choices which were either chosen by the pattern itself or by another pattern which is either random ad infinitum..

Response: All of which originates from choice, thus making my point and proving God's existence.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 7:07:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 7:03:25 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:56:19 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:49:34 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:46:50 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:

Why would I accept evidence if I had choice. The evidence would be my arbiter, considering choice would require one answers why they chose evidence worthy, and why they chose worthiness important, and why they chose importance over unimportance, which would always result in an artibtrary pattern which was either chosen by the pattern or by another pattern which is either random or by another pattern ad infinitum..

Response: You would accept evidence if you had choice if you are a supporter of truth. So whether you choose to accept it or not does not change that the evidence was presented.

Whether I chose to accept it or not is based either on another pattern of choices which were either chosen by the pattern itself or by another pattern which is either random ad infinitum..

Response: All of which originates from choice, thus making my point and proving God's existence.

Well I call it nature, as a pattern in this sense cannot be created. Unless your ready to defend pantheism.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 7:15:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 7:07:38 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:


Well I call it nature, as a pattern in this sense cannot be created. Unless your ready to defend pantheism.

Response: Then if nature is uncreated, then you need no evidence for god. For your God is nature.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 7:21:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 7:15:44 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 7:07:38 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:


Well I call it nature, as a pattern in this sense cannot be created. Unless your ready to defend pantheism.

Response: Then if nature is uncreated, then you need no evidence for god. For your God is nature.

Nature is my mystery, and I am nature. God may be a solution to a problem which doesn't exist, like the creation of existence itself, ergo a redundancy in questioning the nature of nature etc.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 7:24:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 7:21:35 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 7:15:44 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 7:07:38 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:


Well I call it nature, as a pattern in this sense cannot be created. Unless your ready to defend pantheism.

Response: Then if nature is uncreated, then you need no evidence for god. For your God is nature.

Nature is my mystery, and I am nature. God may be a solution to a problem which doesn't exist, like the creation of existence itself, ergo a redundancy in questioning the nature of nature etc.

Response: That does not change the fact that nature is uncreated according to you. Therefore, you have a God.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2014 7:27:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 7:24:45 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 7:21:35 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 7/20/2014 7:15:44 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/20/2014 7:07:38 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:


Well I call it nature, as a pattern in this sense cannot be created. Unless your ready to defend pantheism.

Response: Then if nature is uncreated, then you need no evidence for god. For your God is nature.

Nature is my mystery, and I am nature. God may be a solution to a problem which doesn't exist, like the creation of existence itself, ergo a redundancy in questioning the nature of nature etc.

Response: That does not change the fact that nature is uncreated according to you. Therefore, you have a God.

I mean you do have an interesting point regarding the depth of mystery, but do you not agree with such line of reasoning yourself.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW