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Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free

sovereigngracereigns
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7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:


1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."


2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."


3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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7/22/2014 3:46:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."



2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."



3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."


Your god is so pathetically insecure that he demands glory.

Maybe he needs some self empowerment training.

Or is he just autistic?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/22/2014 3:59:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."



2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."



3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."


Your god is so pathetically insecure that he demands glory.

Maybe he needs some self empowerment training.

Or is he just autistic?

No, the unregenerate man is so pathetically ignorant and blind, and so in love with himself, he thinks he's his own god.

And he's so incredibly self-destructive, that he'd rather go to Hell than to give God the honor he deserves.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/22/2014 4:04:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:59:21 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."



2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."



3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."


Your god is so pathetically insecure that he demands glory.

Maybe he needs some self empowerment training.

Or is he just autistic?

No, the unregenerate man is so pathetically ignorant and blind, and so in love with himself, he thinks he's his own god.

And he's so incredibly self-destructive, that he'd rather go to Hell than to give God the honor he deserves.
Should any so called believers also believe they have a Free-Will, then why do they Freely keep choosing to remain malignant sinners?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/22/2014 4:13:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 4:04:21 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:59:21 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."



2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."



3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."


Your god is so pathetically insecure that he demands glory.

Maybe he needs some self empowerment training.

Or is he just autistic?

No, the unregenerate man is so pathetically ignorant and blind, and so in love with himself, he thinks he's his own god.

And he's so incredibly self-destructive, that he'd rather go to Hell than to give God the honor he deserves.
Should any so called believers also believe they have a Free-Will, then why do they Freely keep choosing to remain malignant sinners?

As long as they're still in this world, believers will continue to sin. But believers are justified by the blood and righteousness of Christ, not judged by their sin.

However, those who die without Christ, die without anything BUT their sin. And they will be judged and found worthy of eternal wrath in Hell.

So, if I were you I'd start trying to find out more about this Christ, and forgiveness of sins, instead of wasting your time trying to justify your own sin.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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7/22/2014 4:48:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:59:21 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."



2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."



3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."


Your god is so pathetically insecure that he demands glory.

Maybe he needs some self empowerment training.

Or is he just autistic?

No, the unregenerate man is so pathetically ignorant and blind, and so in love with himself, he thinks he's his own god.
I don't believe in gods. So if I think I'm god then I wouldn't believe in myself. Your circularity, though hilarious, is as ridiculous as all of your beliefs and impossible.
And he's so incredibly self-destructive, that he'd rather go to Hell than to give God the honor he deserves.
Something that creates a HELL does not deserve honor. It deserves to be despised and hated.
The fact that you believe in and worship this abomination says a lot about your capacity for grasping an ability to be human.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/22/2014 8:33:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sovereign, old buckie, you forgot Reason No. 4

You paid a lawyer to draw it up for you.

Oh, and btw, please stop peddling that Pauline Christian tripe as Christianity about the hell condemnation of sinners and all that anti-Christ garbage you espouse? Yes, it is garbage and not Christian because if you ever become a Christian you understand why God is a God of Love and Forgiveness. If God can't forgive sin, neither can we, and really, a God that cannot forgive sin is not our God and not any god worthy of worship. Might as well be worshiping Moloch..
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/22/2014 9:01:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:59:21 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
No, the unregenerate man is so pathetically ignorant and blind, and so in love with himself, he thinks he's his own god.

And he's so incredibly self-destructive, that he'd rather go to Hell than to give God the honor he deserves.

It's a fortunate thing that your god doesn't exist then, does it? He is probably one of the most contemptible figures I have ever heard about if true.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/22/2014 4:46:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:59:18 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
None of those verses mean that we can't have free will.

Well, if you can't even exist without God enabling you to exist, and you can't do anything but sin, and you have no ability to determine your eternal fate....
then I'd say your will is pretty limited.

Now, please enlighten us all on how these things don't nullify your supposed "free will."
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/22/2014 5:04:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."

The passage is written to Christians - not the general public. Certainly "in Him" we live. But how did we get "into Him"? Tell us, please. And tell us in a manner that does not have us "in Him" before we are baptized into Him.

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal 3: 27)

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6: 3)

If you know of any other passages which tell us how we get "into Christ", please list them so that we may examine them.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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7/22/2014 5:29:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 4:46:24 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:59:18 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
None of those verses mean that we can't have free will.

Well, if you can't even exist without God enabling you to exist, and you can't do anything but sin, and you have no ability to determine your eternal fate....
then I'd say your will is pretty limited.

Now, please enlighten us all on how these things don't nullify your supposed "free will."

I agree we're dependent on God, just like a sailboat is dependent on the wind to move. The sailboat can't move unless the wind pushes it. Without the wind, the boat is completely and utterly useless; however, once the wind pushes it, it is able to turn left or right, or continue going straight. In the same way, we have the ability to choose what path to take. God allows us this choice, even though we are dependent upon him for our very existence.

We can choose to follow a path of service and goodness toward others, or a path of sinfulness and hate. Those who choose a path of sinfulness will necessarily be "slaves to sin," as the second verse points out. Indeed, even those who choose a good path are, in one sense or another, slaves to "sin" (as we all sin at one time or another). Man alone cannot escape greed, anger, ego, and so on. Instead, he must rely on the breath of the Holy Spirit. He can only escape this cycle with the assistance of God, but he must choose to accept God's assistance, or else God's love can in no wise reach him. In other words, he still has free will.

The third quote is only concerned with God's righteousness and not with our ability to determine our fate.

Furthermore, I have free will to determine what I'd like to have for breakfast today. This topic is not concerned with morality or whether something is sinful or not. I might choose to eat cereal or I might choose to eat a bagel. Even with your interpretation of the three verses, I still have the free will to choose what I want to eat.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/22/2014 5:44:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 5:04:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."

The passage is written to Christians - not the general public. Certainly "in Him" we live. But how did we get "into Him"? Tell us, please. And tell us in a manner that does not have us "in Him" before we are baptized into Him.

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal 3: 27)

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6: 3)

If you know of any other passages which tell us how we get "into Christ", please list them so that we may examine them.

Actually, it's abundantly clear if you read it in context, that he's not addressing Christians, but the general public.

In fact, he's addressing a typical crowd at the Areopagus in Athens, which was basically their "City Hall."

Read it again in context.

Let's start with Acts 17:19-21:

19 "And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? 20 For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean." 21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing."


You see, these are clearly not Christians, but men who are unfamiliar with the Gospel.

Now, look at Verses 22-23 :
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.


Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:"


Again, he's a adressing the general public in Athens-- he addressed them simply as "Men of Athens..."
And these are clearly pagan idolators and men who are ignorant of the true God.

And so Paul begins preaching to them, in Verses 24-32.
He says:
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men"s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, "For we are also His offspring."
29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man"s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."


So, there you have it. Paul addressed a general crowd and said:

"......He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being,

That's clearly speaking of the creation of men in general, not the new birth which is experienced by believers.

And then, in the next verses, we find that some believed, and others did not believe. Again, demonstrating that this was not spoken specifically to a Christian audience.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead,some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter." 33 So Paul departed from among them.
34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/22/2014 5:57:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."



2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."



3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."


Okay, I will say this to you, and every theist out there (and atheist when I see it) when it gets annoying enough. THIS IS A DEBATE SITE, GO PREACH ELSEWHERE!
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/22/2014 6:32:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 5:44:12 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 5:04:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."

The passage is written to Christians - not the general public. Certainly "in Him" we live. But how did we get "into Him"? Tell us, please. And tell us in a manner that does not have us "in Him" before we are baptized into Him.

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal 3: 27)

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6: 3)

If you know of any other passages which tell us how we get "into Christ", please list them so that we may examine them.

Actually, it's abundantly clear if you read it in context, that he's not addressing Christians, but the general public.

In fact, he's addressing a typical crowd at the Areopagus in Athens, which was basically their "City Hall."



Read it again in context.

Let's start with Acts 17:19-21:

19 "And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? 20 For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean." 21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing."


You see, these are clearly not Christians, but men who are unfamiliar with the Gospel.

Now, look at Verses 22-23 :
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.


Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:"


Again, he's a adressing the general public in Athens-- he addressed them simply as "Men of Athens..."
And these are clearly pagan idolators and men who are ignorant of the true God.

And so Paul begins preaching to them, in Verses 24-32.
He says:
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men"s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, "For we are also His offspring."
29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man"s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."


So, there you have it. Paul addressed a general crowd and said:

"......He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being,

That's clearly speaking of the creation of men in general, not the new birth which is experienced by believers.

And then, in the next verses, we find that some believed, and others did not believe. Again, demonstrating that this was not spoken specifically to a Christian audience.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead,some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter." 33 So Paul departed from among them.
34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.


"For in Him we live and move and have our being, "

So by substituting the word "atheists" for "we":

"For in Him, atheists live and move and have their being"

demonstrating that this was not spoken specifically to a Christian audience

The "we" refers to "we Christians", does it not?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
E_Pluribus_Unum
Posts: 53
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7/22/2014 7:00:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:

Your god is so pathetically insecure that he demands glory.

Maybe he needs some self empowerment training.

Or is he just autistic?

Autism is a very real, documented neurodevelopmental disorder that is also very broad in its effects. Some people with autism can't understand social etiquette, some are brilliant (autistic savants), some can live on their own. As far as I know, autistic people don't usually demand glory. Who gave you the idea that analogizing autistic people with God by saying they both demand glory was a good idea?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/22/2014 10:16:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 6:32:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/22/2014 5:44:12 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 5:04:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."

The passage is written to Christians - not the general public. Certainly "in Him" we live. But how did we get "into Him"? Tell us, please. And tell us in a manner that does not have us "in Him" before we are baptized into Him.

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal 3: 27)

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6: 3)

If you know of any other passages which tell us how we get "into Christ", please list them so that we may examine them.

Actually, it's abundantly clear if you read it in context, that he's not addressing Christians, but the general public.

In fact, he's addressing a typical crowd at the Areopagus in Athens, which was basically their "City Hall."



Read it again in context.

Let's start with Acts 17:19-21:

19 "And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? 20 For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean." 21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing."


You see, these are clearly not Christians, but men who are unfamiliar with the Gospel.

Now, look at Verses 22-23 :
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.


Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:"


Again, he's a adressing the general public in Athens-- he addressed them simply as "Men of Athens..."
And these are clearly pagan idolators and men who are ignorant of the true God.

And so Paul begins preaching to them, in Verses 24-32.
He says:
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men"s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, "For we are also His offspring."
29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man"s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."


So, there you have it. Paul addressed a general crowd and said:

"......He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being,

That's clearly speaking of the creation of men in general, not the new birth which is experienced by believers.

And then, in the next verses, we find that some believed, and others did not believe. Again, demonstrating that this was not spoken specifically to a Christian audience.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead,some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter." 33 So Paul departed from among them.
34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.


"For in Him we live and move and have our being, "

So by substituting the word "atheists" for "we":

"For in Him, atheists live and move and have their being"

demonstrating that this was not spoken specifically to a Christian audience

The "we" refers to "we Christians", does it not?

No, that passage is not referring to Christians.

I see no reason why it would in this context. And it's very clear that it doesn't.

I've also just checked a number of commentaries (from Calvinists and Arminians alike!) and NOBODY, I mean NOBODY, ever interpreted it to refer to Christians.

That's because it's utterly ridiculous to think it's referring to Christians, given the context.
You're just wrong.

I don't know why you would even dispute the fact that all creatures depend on God for all things, anyway.
Aren't you a "Christian"?
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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7/22/2014 11:35:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 7:00:58 PM, E_Pluribus_Unum wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:

Your god is so pathetically insecure that he demands glory.

Maybe he needs some self empowerment training.

Or is he just autistic?

Autism is a very real, documented neurodevelopmental disorder that is also very broad in its effects. Some people with autism can't understand social etiquette, some are brilliant (autistic savants), some can live on their own. As far as I know, autistic people don't usually demand glory. Who gave you the idea that analogizing autistic people with God by saying they both demand glory was a good idea?

An exhibition of failed comprehension.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/23/2014 2:20:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 10:16:15 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 6:32:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/22/2014 5:44:12 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 5:04:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."

The passage is written to Christians - not the general public. Certainly "in Him" we live. But how did we get "into Him"? Tell us, please. And tell us in a manner that does not have us "in Him" before we are baptized into Him.

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal 3: 27)

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6: 3)

If you know of any other passages which tell us how we get "into Christ", please list them so that we may examine them.

Actually, it's abundantly clear if you read it in context, that he's not addressing Christians, but the general public.

In fact, he's addressing a typical crowd at the Areopagus in Athens, which was basically their "City Hall."



Read it again in context.

Let's start with Acts 17:19-21:

19 "And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? 20 For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean." 21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing."


You see, these are clearly not Christians, but men who are unfamiliar with the Gospel.

Now, look at Verses 22-23 :
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.


Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:"


Again, he's a adressing the general public in Athens-- he addressed them simply as "Men of Athens..."
And these are clearly pagan idolators and men who are ignorant of the true God.

And so Paul begins preaching to them, in Verses 24-32.
He says:
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men"s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, "For we are also His offspring."
29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man"s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."


So, there you have it. Paul addressed a general crowd and said:

"......He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being,

That's clearly speaking of the creation of men in general, not the new birth which is experienced by believers.

And then, in the next verses, we find that some believed, and others did not believe. Again, demonstrating that this was not spoken specifically to a Christian audience.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead,some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter." 33 So Paul departed from among them.
34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.


"For in Him we live and move and have our being, "

So by substituting the word "atheists" for "we":

"For in Him, atheists live and move and have their being"

demonstrating that this was not spoken specifically to a Christian audience

The "we" refers to "we Christians", does it not?

No, that passage is not referring to Christians.

I see no reason why it would in this context. And it's very clear that it doesn't.

I've also just checked a number of commentaries (from Calvinists and Arminians alike!) and NOBODY, I mean NOBODY, ever interpreted it to refer to Christians.

That's because it's utterly ridiculous to think it's referring to Christians, given the context.
You're just wrong.

I don't know why you would even dispute the fact that all creatures depend on God for all things, anyway.
Aren't you a "Christian"?

I denied that all people are in Christ. You affirmed that atheists are in Christ, knowing full well that the Bible teaches that we are baptized into Christ.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/23/2014 2:47:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 4:13:25 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 4:04:21 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:59:21 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:46:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."



2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."



3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."


Your god is so pathetically insecure that he demands glory.

Maybe he needs some self empowerment training.

Or is he just autistic?

No, the unregenerate man is so pathetically ignorant and blind, and so in love with himself, he thinks he's his own god.

And he's so incredibly self-destructive, that he'd rather go to Hell than to give God the honor he deserves.
Should any so called believers also believe they have a Free-Will, then why do they Freely keep choosing to remain malignant sinners?

As long as they're still in this world, believers will continue to sin. But believers are justified by the blood and righteousness of Christ, not judged by their sin.

However, those who die without Christ, die without anything BUT their sin. And they will be judged and found worthy of eternal wrath in Hell.

So, if I were you I'd start trying to find out more about this Christ, and forgiveness of sins, instead of wasting your time trying to justify your own sin.
I don't sin!

What are you going to do now?
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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7/28/2014 8:24:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 3:00:18 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
Three Reasons Your Will Is Not Free:



1. You are not self-existent, but dependent on God.
Acts 17:28
'"For in him we live and move and have our being."



2. Your will is in bondage to sin.

John 8:34
"Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."



3. God alone must have all the glory.

Romans 9:14-16
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."
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