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do you believe in free will? why or why not?

steffon66
Posts: 240
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7/22/2014 6:05:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
i dont believe in free will because peoples actions are determined by what theyve been taught. whether or not they will own slaves torture people for their beliefs beat women for speaking their mind etc. all depends on what they have been taught and their physiology. its super easy for some to be good and its super hard for others to be good. i know because i have been bad while trying to be good and being unable to be good and later on in life my feelings and logic change and now its impossible for me to be evil because i have no reason to be evil because i have no desire to be evil and there is no way im going to choose to do something that could have negative consequences when there is no desire or reason to be bad. what do you believe? why do you believe it?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/22/2014 6:51:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I believe that God alone has free will.

Not only is that the universal declaration of God's Holy Word, but its the only thing that makes any sense.

It's very simple.

First of all, the creature is totally dependent on God.
Its entire existence depends on God's will.
Therefore, the creature really has no freedom at all to speak of, and therefore, does not have free will.

Secondly, the creature is subject to innumerable limitations.
Therefore, it does not have free will.

Thirdly, the will of the creature is bound to its nature. It can't do anything outside of its natural abilities.
Therefore, it has no free will.

Furthermore,
The will of the creature is subject to God's will.
Therefore, the creature does not have free will.

Only a being who is not subject to any limitations could be said to possess a free will.
And God alone is not subject to limitations.
Therefore, I would argue that God alone has free will.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/22/2014 7:00:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 6:51:08 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
I believe that God alone has free will.

Not only is that the universal declaration of God's Holy Word, but its the only thing that makes any sense.

It's very simple.

First of all, the creature is totally dependent on God.
Its entire existence depends on God's will.
Therefore, the creature really has no freedom at all to speak of, and therefore, does not have free will.

The fact that God is the sustainer of the universe does not negate free will in the least. My cat is totally dependent upon me, but he certainly has the free will to pee on the carpet.

Secondly, the creature is subject to innumerable limitations.
Therefore, it does not have free will.

Huh?

Thirdly, the will of the creature is bound to its nature. It can't do anything outside of its natural abilities.
Therefore, it has no free will.

"Nature" does not always mean (or even refer) to "natural abilities".

Furthermore,
The will of the creature is subject to God's will.
Therefore, the creature does not have free will.

So if the creator wills that the created have free will, what happens?

Only a being who is not subject to any limitations could be said to possess a free will.
And God alone is not subject to limitations.
Therefore, I would argue that God alone has free will.

I have a hard time following your "causes and effects". "Limitations" does not equate to "lack of free will". I cannot fly. I'm limited in that respect. But I have free will as to whether I walk, crawl, hop, run, or whatever.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/22/2014 10:19:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 7:00:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/22/2014 6:51:08 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
I believe that God alone has free will.

Not only is that the universal declaration of God's Holy Word, but its the only thing that makes any sense.

It's very simple.

First of all, the creature is totally dependent on God.
Its entire existence depends on God's will.
Therefore, the creature really has no freedom at all to speak of, and therefore, does not have free will.

The fact that God is the sustainer of the universe does not negate free will in the least. My cat is totally dependent upon me, but he certainly has the free will to pee on the carpet.

Secondly, the creature is subject to innumerable limitations.
Therefore, it does not have free will.

Huh?

Thirdly, the will of the creature is bound to its nature. It can't do anything outside of its natural abilities.
Therefore, it has no free will.

"Nature" does not always mean (or even refer) to "natural abilities".

Furthermore,
The will of the creature is subject to God's will.
Therefore, the creature does not have free will.

So if the creator wills that the created have free will, what happens?

Only a being who is not subject to any limitations could be said to possess a free will.
And God alone is not subject to limitations.
Therefore, I would argue that God alone has free will.

I have a hard time following your "causes and effects". "Limitations" does not equate to "lack of free will". I cannot fly. I'm limited in that respect. But I have free will as to whether I walk, crawl, hop, run, or whatever.

If you are able to walk, crawl, hop, or run, it's because God has enabled you to do it.

Your will to do it could easily be frustrated by God. Thus, God's will is free. Yours is not.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/22/2014 10:42:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 6:05:27 PM, steffon66 wrote:
i dont believe in free will because peoples actions are determined by what theyve been taught. whether or not they will own slaves torture people for their beliefs beat women for speaking their mind etc. all depends on what they have been taught and their physiology. its super easy for some to be good and its super hard for others to be good. i know because i have been bad while trying to be good and being unable to be good and later on in life my feelings and logic change and now its impossible for me to be evil because i have no reason to be evil because i have no desire to be evil and there is no way im going to choose to do something that could have negative consequences when there is no desire or reason to be bad. what do you believe? why do you believe it?

Well there is no free will, first you didnt chose your color male or female who will be your parents place.... in physiology its called thrownness.... anyway in islamic thought, everyone is a slave some to their desires some to money fame etc.... and true liberty is to be slave of God that frees you from the shackels of this world.
Never fart near dog
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/23/2014 2:22:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/22/2014 10:19:53 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/22/2014 7:00:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/22/2014 6:51:08 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
I believe that God alone has free will.

Not only is that the universal declaration of God's Holy Word, but its the only thing that makes any sense.

It's very simple.

First of all, the creature is totally dependent on God.
Its entire existence depends on God's will.
Therefore, the creature really has no freedom at all to speak of, and therefore, does not have free will.

The fact that God is the sustainer of the universe does not negate free will in the least. My cat is totally dependent upon me, but he certainly has the free will to pee on the carpet.

Secondly, the creature is subject to innumerable limitations.
Therefore, it does not have free will.

Huh?

Thirdly, the will of the creature is bound to its nature. It can't do anything outside of its natural abilities.
Therefore, it has no free will.

"Nature" does not always mean (or even refer) to "natural abilities".

Furthermore,
The will of the creature is subject to God's will.
Therefore, the creature does not have free will.

So if the creator wills that the created have free will, what happens?

Only a being who is not subject to any limitations could be said to possess a free will.
And God alone is not subject to limitations.
Therefore, I would argue that God alone has free will.

I have a hard time following your "causes and effects". "Limitations" does not equate to "lack of free will". I cannot fly. I'm limited in that respect. But I have free will as to whether I walk, crawl, hop, run, or whatever.

If you are able to walk, crawl, hop, or run, it's because God has enabled you to do it.

Your will to do it could easily be frustrated by God. Thus, God's will is free. Yours is not.

Yes, my will to do this or that is limited to the vast array of choices provided by God. God, however, does not predetermine which choice among those that I might select at a given time.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."