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Jews, why don't you believe in Yeshua?

Truth_seeker
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7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/23/2014 3:50:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

To flip this around a bit; why do YOU believe in Yeshua? In what manner do you suggest he proved himself to be "God in the flesh"?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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7/23/2014 3:52:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

So why you dont believe in Islam, its also claims that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah
Never fart near dog
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/23/2014 4:21:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Salvation is of the Jews. Muhammad was a Gentile, literally out of line, plus his religion, all of its theology stolen from our Jewish scriptures, is a throwback to violent warlord rulership of societies in which human rights are systematically eliminated for Muhammadan believers.

Btw, as Jesus was a Jew, so am I and I fully accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah because I follow the Celestial Torah while my fellow Jews follow the earthly imitation created by ancient priests of Judah. The earthly man-made torah desires another Warlord rulership so wants another Warrior King David as Messiah but the heavenly Celestial Torah commands a Sage King Messiah, a Christ in other words, which is why God sent in Christ and Christianity to correct the Jewish error. Muhammadism is outside God's Plan of salvation and is only a temporary ideological backstep for those wanting a real spiritual relationship with God Most High and the Spirit of Christ.
POPOO5560
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7/23/2014 5:17:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 4:21:26 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Salvation is of the Jews. Muhammad was a Gentile, literally out of line, plus his religion, all of its theology stolen from our Jewish scriptures, is a throwback to violent warlord rulership of societies in which human rights are systematically eliminated for Muhammadan believers.

Btw, as Jesus was a Jew, so am I and I fully accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah because I follow the Celestial Torah while my fellow Jews follow the earthly imitation created by ancient priests of Judah. The earthly man-made torah desires another Warlord rulership so wants another Warrior King David as Messiah but the heavenly Celestial Torah commands a Sage King Messiah, a Christ in other words, which is why God sent in Christ and Christianity to correct the Jewish error. Muhammadism is outside God's Plan of salvation and is only a temporary ideological backstep for those wanting a real spiritual relationship with God Most High and the Spirit of Christ.

So you saying God is a racist? only jews... whats the different between your God and the Nazis? they believed in the same idea, they are better than the others... your little mind cant think beyond the Gentile rubbish. first of all, i know hebrew you dont, originally there is no absolute jews in our time, everybody got mixed with the others, come to israel everybody here looking like europians white as snow balls, and they hating african jews (black jews from ethiopia...) who trying to come here and live, they expelling them, rasicm is plenty, they are hyopcrites anyway.....
Never fart near dog
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/23/2014 7:03:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 3:52:13 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

So why you dont believe in Islam, its also claims that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah

Islam comes from the Hebrew Scriptures, muslims believe that the Bible was divine before it became corrupted
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/23/2014 7:04:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 3:50:53 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

To flip this around a bit; why do YOU believe in Yeshua? In what manner do you suggest he proved himself to be "God in the flesh"?

he fulfilled many prophecies, did many miracles, and rose from the dead...
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/23/2014 7:06:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 5:17:56 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 4:21:26 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Salvation is of the Jews. Muhammad was a Gentile, literally out of line, plus his religion, all of its theology stolen from our Jewish scriptures, is a throwback to violent warlord rulership of societies in which human rights are systematically eliminated for Muhammadan believers.

Btw, as Jesus was a Jew, so am I and I fully accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah because I follow the Celestial Torah while my fellow Jews follow the earthly imitation created by ancient priests of Judah. The earthly man-made torah desires another Warlord rulership so wants another Warrior King David as Messiah but the heavenly Celestial Torah commands a Sage King Messiah, a Christ in other words, which is why God sent in Christ and Christianity to correct the Jewish error. Muhammadism is outside God's Plan of salvation and is only a temporary ideological backstep for those wanting a real spiritual relationship with God Most High and the Spirit of Christ.

So you saying God is a racist? only jews... whats the different between your God and the Nazis? they believed in the same idea, they are better than the others... your little mind cant think beyond the Gentile rubbish. first of all, i know hebrew you dont, originally there is no absolute jews in our time, everybody got mixed with the others, come to israel everybody here looking like europians white as snow balls, and they hating african jews (black jews from ethiopia...) who trying to come here and live, they expelling them, rasicm is plenty, they are hyopcrites anyway.....

Godwin's Law, you lose.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/23/2014 7:33:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 7:04:16 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:50:53 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

To flip this around a bit; why do YOU believe in Yeshua? In what manner do you suggest he proved himself to be "God in the flesh"?

he fulfilled many prophecies, did many miracles, and rose from the dead...

Or...

He didn't fulfill any prophecies, didn't perform any miracles and didn't rise from the dead. It's interesting that while the Bible makes these claims, we only find such claims among scripture. We know of more than 2-dozen historians of that time, living in that region, and not a single one recorded any miracles, or made any reference to anyone rising from the dead. In fact, if Jesus actually existed, he was completely transparent to literally every single historian of his day. Not a single one seems to have met him, heard of him, or met anyone who knew him.

If we look to the prophecies we find that the accounts of them being fulfilled come from scriptural writings from people who didn't know, or meet Jesus.

For example;, in Zechariah 9:9 we find the claim that the new King (or Messiah), would enter the city riding a donkey. If we look to Matthew 21:2, we find Jesus telling his disciples to enter the city and bring him two donkeys, not one. It seems a bit silly that he would try to ride two donkeys into the city, especially when the prophecy suggests him riding only one. But we can unravel this mystery by looking to the Greek Septuagint, which is a translation of the Old Testament. In Hebrew the single donkey in Zechariah 9:9 is described as "a colt, and the foal of a donkey". This was mistranslated into the Septuagint as two donkeys. And the author to "Matthew", obviously used this as his source and thus provided his fictional Jesus character with dialog asking for two donkeys, not one. So Jesus didn't actually fulfill the prophecy, it was simply written that he did.

And we can find this tendency to forge the dialog for Jesus to be quite common in the gospels. For example, in Mark 15:34, we find Jesus crying out, "My God my God, why have you forsaken me?". Yet if we look to Psalms 22:1, we find that the author actually copied the first half of the verse word-for-word, and claimed it was the words of Jesus. And when we look to the other three gospels, they all have different claims of what Jesus said.

If we look to Matthew 27:43, we find the author using a paraphrased version of the verse from Psalms 22:8, and parading it as the words of Jesus.

In reality, none of the gospels were written by eyewitnesses, nor by anyone who ever knew Jesus. They're essentially stories constructed on the basis of the Old Testament scriptures, popular Christian tradition, and other popular hero fiction of the day, including some of the pagan god myths. And none of the gospels were written until decades after the time it is claimed that Jesus died.

As for him rising from the dead, that originally came from the final 12-verses of Mark. And if we look to some of the oldest extant copies of "The Gospel of Mark", those verses are not present. Paleographical examination shows that they were added later, and by a different author (or authors).

Some of the miracles are taken directly from pagan myths, such as Jesus turning water into wine at a wedding which exactly mimics the earlier claim that Dionysus did exactly the same thing, and the claim that Jesus walked on water, which mimics the older myths about Horus walking on water.

So I'm afraid there's no credibility to any of those stories.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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7/23/2014 7:49:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 7:03:29 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:52:13 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

So why you dont believe in Islam, its also claims that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah

Islam comes from the Hebrew Scriptures, muslims believe that the Bible was divine before it became corrupted

Well we muslims believe that the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus (pbut) were true, not the bible we have today.... Gospel of Jesus is what message he had, today you have include 66 books or the 73 books of catholics... and almost all bible scholars acknowledge that the Torah of today is not written by Moses pbuh or the 4 Gospels by Jesus, unknown authors wrote them...
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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7/23/2014 7:56:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 7:06:22 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/23/2014 5:17:56 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 4:21:26 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Salvation is of the Jews. Muhammad was a Gentile, literally out of line, plus his religion, all of its theology stolen from our Jewish scriptures, is a throwback to violent warlord rulership of societies in which human rights are systematically eliminated for Muhammadan believers.

Btw, as Jesus was a Jew, so am I and I fully accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah because I follow the Celestial Torah while my fellow Jews follow the earthly imitation created by ancient priests of Judah. The earthly man-made torah desires another Warlord rulership so wants another Warrior King David as Messiah but the heavenly Celestial Torah commands a Sage King Messiah, a Christ in other words, which is why God sent in Christ and Christianity to correct the Jewish error. Muhammadism is outside God's Plan of salvation and is only a temporary ideological backstep for those wanting a real spiritual relationship with God Most High and the Spirit of Christ.

So you saying God is a racist? only jews... whats the different between your God and the Nazis? they believed in the same idea, they are better than the others... your little mind cant think beyond the Gentile rubbish. first of all, i know hebrew you dont, originally there is no absolute jews in our time, everybody got mixed with the others, come to israel everybody here looking like europians white as snow balls, and they hating african jews (black jews from ethiopia...) who trying to come here and live, they expelling them, rasicm is plenty, they are hyopcrites anyway.....

Godwin's Law, you lose.

ohhh crap :D
Never fart near dog
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/23/2014 9:04:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 7:49:51 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 7:03:29 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:52:13 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

So why you dont believe in Islam, its also claims that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah

Islam comes from the Hebrew Scriptures, muslims believe that the Bible was divine before it became corrupted

Well we muslims believe that the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus (pbut) were true, not the bible we have today.... Gospel of Jesus is what message he had, today you have include 66 books or the 73 books of catholics... and almost all bible scholars acknowledge that the Torah of today is not written by Moses pbuh or the 4 Gospels by Jesus, unknown authors wrote them...

The "Torah of Moses" was, like Muhammad's actions, a ripoff of another people's religious ideas, in Judah's case, the religious ideas of ancient Egyptians because the Torah is derived from Egyptian religious theology and is in fact astrologically based because the ancient pagans connected their religious beings and ideas with astrological symbolism. Astrology forms the basis of most of the world's religions but Abrahamic ones teach their believers that it doesn't exist and if it did, it's forbidden. That was to protect the priests of Judah from Jews finding out the real origin of the Torah after ancient Egypt and its priesthoods were long gone and nobody there to expose the Jewish ripoff. The ripoff was allowed to stand and became part of Pauline Christianity which became the state religion of the Roman Empire which guaranteed Christianity was spread throughout the Roman Empire and into Europe where it took hold big time and then the world. Muhammad tried to steal the already stolen Jewish torah to claim it for his religious ripoff and again, because of power politics driving these religious dispersions, we have millions of utterly deceived Abrahamic believers loose in the world believing in a stack of Jewish myths of origin that never occurred.

This is why Muhammadism cannot be a real religion anymore than Judaism as they both refuse to acknowledge their dependency on pagan original religious theologies and both try to claim God for their group alone. Same thing for Pauline Christians, each one wants to own God and be able to dictate religious law to everyone else.

God is a Spirit and no human being can own the Spirit of God. Not a 7th century man that's for sure. As for Jesus Christ of the Gospels, he is a Spiritual Being, and that is why he can't be dislodged from human religious psyche that needs the Spirit of Christ to open up human empathy for others. Neither Mosaic Law or Sharia Law recognize empathy for others outside the Special Group. And God is not with them because God is with Humanity.

This is why Celestial Torah Christianity is going to replace Abrahamic religions--because Celestial Torah Christianity holds the Humanitarian Archetype spiritual instructions while Moses, Paul, and Muhammad were each killers of men and disqualified from Humanitarian Archetype consideration. Not so, Jesus Christ..
E_Pluribus_Unum
Posts: 53
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7/23/2014 9:15:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 7:33:33 PM, Beastt wrote:
Some of the miracles are taken directly from pagan myths, such as Jesus turning water into wine at a wedding which exactly mimics the earlier claim that Dionysus did exactly the same thing

I have never heard of the myth that Dionysus did such any such thing.

and the claim that Jesus walked on water, which mimics the older myths about Horus walking on water.

I have never heard of the myth of Horus walking on water either. The fact that Horus is supposed to be a war god and protector of the Pharaoh is further problematic.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/23/2014 9:56:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You need to get out more. The way Horus of the Horizon "walks" on water is the same way the sun at sunrise or sunset "walks" on water, i.e. their images, little suns, are reflected as "steps" over bodies of water.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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7/23/2014 9:58:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 9:04:55 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 7/23/2014 7:49:51 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 7:03:29 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:52:13 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

So why you dont believe in Islam, its also claims that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah

Islam comes from the Hebrew Scriptures, muslims believe that the Bible was divine before it became corrupted

Well we muslims believe that the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus (pbut) were true, not the bible we have today.... Gospel of Jesus is what message he had, today you have include 66 books or the 73 books of catholics... and almost all bible scholars acknowledge that the Torah of today is not written by Moses pbuh or the 4 Gospels by Jesus, unknown authors wrote them...

The "Torah of Moses" was, like Muhammad's actions, a ripoff of another people's religious ideas, in Judah's case, the religious ideas of ancient Egyptians because the Torah is derived from Egyptian religious theology and is in fact astrologically based because the ancient pagans connected their religious beings and ideas with astrological symbolism. Astrology forms the basis of most of the world's religions but Abrahamic ones teach their believers that it doesn't exist and if it did, it's forbidden. That was to protect the priests of Judah from Jews finding out the real origin of the Torah after ancient Egypt and its priesthoods were long gone and nobody there to expose the Jewish ripoff. The ripoff was allowed to stand and became part of Pauline Christianity which became the state religion of the Roman Empire which guaranteed Christianity was spread throughout the Roman Empire and into Europe where it took hold big time and then the world. Muhammad tried to steal the already stolen Jewish torah to claim it for his religious ripoff and again, because of power politics driving these religious dispersions, we have millions of utterly deceived Abrahamic believers loose in the world believing in a stack of Jewish myths of origin that never occurred.

This is why Muhammadism cannot be a real religion anymore than Judaism as they both refuse to acknowledge their dependency on pagan original religious theologies and both try to claim God for their group alone. Same thing for Pauline Christians, each one wants to own God and be able to dictate religious law to everyone else.

God is a Spirit and no human being can own the Spirit of God. Not a 7th century man that's for sure. As for Jesus Christ of the Gospels, he is a Spiritual Being, and that is why he can't be dislodged from human religious psyche that needs the Spirit of Christ to open up human empathy for others. Neither Mosaic Law or Sharia Law recognize empathy for others outside the Special Group. And God is not with them because God is with Humanity.

This is why Celestial Torah Christianity is going to replace Abrahamic religions--because Celestial Torah Christianity holds the Humanitarian Archetype spiritual instructions while Moses, Paul, and Muhammad were each killers of men and disqualified from Humanitarian Archetype consideration. Not so, Jesus Christ..

Before you writing nonsense learn hebrew ya khamor (ask jews whats this word means...)
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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7/23/2014 10:02:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 9:58:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 9:04:55 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 7/23/2014 7:49:51 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 7:03:29 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:52:13 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

So why you dont believe in Islam, its also claims that Jesus pbuh is the Messiah

Islam comes from the Hebrew Scriptures, muslims believe that the Bible was divine before it became corrupted

Well we muslims believe that the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus (pbut) were true, not the bible we have today.... Gospel of Jesus is what message he had, today you have include 66 books or the 73 books of catholics... and almost all bible scholars acknowledge that the Torah of today is not written by Moses pbuh or the 4 Gospels by Jesus, unknown authors wrote them...

The "Torah of Moses" was, like Muhammad's actions, a ripoff of another people's religious ideas, in Judah's case, the religious ideas of ancient Egyptians because the Torah is derived from Egyptian religious theology and is in fact astrologically based because the ancient pagans connected their religious beings and ideas with astrological symbolism. Astrology forms the basis of most of the world's religions but Abrahamic ones teach their believers that it doesn't exist and if it did, it's forbidden. That was to protect the priests of Judah from Jews finding out the real origin of the Torah after ancient Egypt and its priesthoods were long gone and nobody there to expose the Jewish ripoff. The ripoff was allowed to stand and became part of Pauline Christianity which became the state religion of the Roman Empire which guaranteed Christianity was spread throughout the Roman Empire and into Europe where it took hold big time and then the world. Muhammad tried to steal the already stolen Jewish torah to claim it for his religious ripoff and again, because of power politics driving these religious dispersions, we have millions of utterly deceived Abrahamic believers loose in the world believing in a stack of Jewish myths of origin that never occurred.

This is why Muhammadism cannot be a real religion anymore than Judaism as they both refuse to acknowledge their dependency on pagan original religious theologies and both try to claim God for their group alone. Same thing for Pauline Christians, each one wants to own God and be able to dictate religious law to everyone else.

God is a Spirit and no human being can own the Spirit of God. Not a 7th century man that's for sure. As for Jesus Christ of the Gospels, he is a Spiritual Being, and that is why he can't be dislodged from human religious psyche that needs the Spirit of Christ to open up human empathy for others. Neither Mosaic Law or Sharia Law recognize empathy for others outside the Special Group. And God is not with them because God is with Humanity.

This is why Celestial Torah Christianity is going to replace Abrahamic religions--because Celestial Torah Christianity holds the Humanitarian Archetype spiritual instructions while Moses, Paul, and Muhammad were each killers of men and disqualified from Humanitarian Archetype consideration. Not so, Jesus Christ..

Before you writing nonsense learn hebrew ya khamor (ask jews whats this word means...)

and Islam is not called "muhamedism", "ism" is for religions including yours, judism budhaism communism athiesm..... ours is not from that group ism, moron.
Never fart near dog
Illegalcombatant
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7/23/2014 10:05:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

From what I have heard. In judaism there are beliefs about a "messiah". In order to be considered the messiah one must fulfill certain things.

If you don't fulfill those things then you are not the messiah. Some Jews don't believe that Jesus fulfilled the necessary things one must to be the messiah.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/23/2014 10:20:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Before you writing nonsense learn hebrew ya khamor (ask jews whats this word means...)"

Hebrew is the world's most manipulated languages. You can't get to historical origins of words in Hebrew because the priests have beaten you to it and rearranged all the meanings to fit into the tenets of Judaism beginning with the word "Torah".

And in grand irony, my Muslim friend with the bad religion, it is Arabic that reveals the Judaism's reliance on Egyptian religion to create their earthly torah counterfeit religion.

What is Moses in Hebrew, potpol? It's Moshe which means "drawn out of water". Can you tell us how that definition is arrived at using Hebrew language? I'll wait for your response and please don't even think of evading this challenge to your supposed knowledge that thinks it can criticize mine.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/23/2014 11:16:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus?
Tell me the OP is trolling. Christians believe in Yahwah as well. As do Christians believe in Allah. And Bah'lai'bab. You do know words can have the same meaning as another language, right?
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/23/2014 11:23:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 9:15:07 PM, E_Pluribus_Unum wrote:
At 7/23/2014 7:33:33 PM, Beastt wrote:
Some of the miracles are taken directly from pagan myths, such as Jesus turning water into wine at a wedding which exactly mimics the earlier claim that Dionysus did exactly the same thing

I have never heard of the myth that Dionysus did such any such thing.
And because you haven't heard of it, that makes it untrue? How much time have you spent researching the pagan myths?
http://www.truthbeknown.com...

and the claim that Jesus walked on water, which mimics the older myths about Horus walking on water.

I have never heard of the myth of Horus walking on water either. The fact that Horus is supposed to be a war god and protector of the Pharaoh is further problematic.
How is that problematic? Apparently, you're only familiar with the proto-orthodox Jesus myths and are unfamiliar with the Warrior Jesus of the Essenes, the pedophile Jesus of the Carpocratians, the gnostic Jesus or the ascetic Jesus. The Council of Nicaea did their best to put all of the Jesus myths except the one they formed and selected to rest, referring to them as "heresy" and suggesting they should be destroyed rather than read. But some of them did survive.

And just like the Jesus myths, there were often multiple myths for pagan gods as well, including interchangeability in some cases.
http://www.religioustolerance.org...

The objection "I've never heard of that", is no more than a plea to ignorance, not an argument from knowledge.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/24/2014 11:58:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 3:23:42 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
Why don't you believe in Jesus? I want to hear your personal perspectives on this. I am a Christian who has a large respect, fascination, and passion for Israel and the Jewish people despite conflicting beliefs. I listened to several rabbis commenting on the issue of Jesus being the Jewish Messiah. I examined some of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism and i could see why you would reject him. I also compare them to my own faith. Why don't you believe in Jesus if he proves himself to be God in the flesh?

Because they believe God would never do that nor change.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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7/24/2014 1:58:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 7:33:33 PM, Beastt wrote:
Some of the miracles are taken directly from pagan myths, such as Jesus turning water into wine at a wedding which exactly mimics the earlier claim that Dionysus did exactly the same thing

Are you surprised that the Greek God of wine would have turned water into wine?

and the claim that Jesus walked on water, which mimics the older myths about Horus walking on water.

Horus lead people through the underworld, making that claim a little hard to believe.
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/26/2014 8:51:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 10:52:41 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Because in Judaism, we don't believe the Messiah has come yet.

Why?
E_Pluribus_Unum
Posts: 53
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7/27/2014 12:53:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 11:23:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
And because you haven't heard of it, that makes it untrue? How much time have you spent researching the pagan myths?
http://www.truthbeknown.com...

How much time do you spend on discredited blogs with "astrotheology calendar" advertisements that can't pass a peer-review if the author's life depended on it? Using that site as a source is embarrassing, and doesn't help your side at all.

Just look at the first paragraph:

"The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Iacchus . . ."

So far so good.

". . . has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother . . ."

Not sure about that, but I am willing to concede it.

". . . on December 25th . . ."

Sorry, Dionysus was a Greek myth and predates the Roman calender month of "December".

"performing miracles such as changing water into wine"

Dionysus invented wine, not transmute it from water.

"appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures"

The typo is so bad I cannot even glean what is meant.

". . . bearing epithets such as 'Only Begotten Son' and 'Savior' . . ."

Dionysus was the son of Zeus, who had lots of sons. Zeus' sons include Perseus, Heracles, Ares, etc. "Savior" doesn't apply to him because Dionysus didn't save anyone the way Jesus supposedly saves people.

". . . dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven. . . ."

Deities in Greek myths don't die; they're immortal. There also is no heaven in Greek mythology. There is Elysium in the Underworld for the virtuous, and Mount Olympus, home of the gods, but not heaven in the Christian sense.

How is that problematic? Apparently, you're only familiar with the proto-orthodox Jesus myths and are unfamiliar with the Warrior Jesus of the Essenes, the pedophile Jesus of the Carpocratians, the gnostic Jesus or the ascetic Jesus.

I am aware that the Essenes were a Judaic sect, the Carpocratians were an early gnostic Christian sect that denied Jesus' divinity and claimed he was basically an enlightened mystic, etc.

And just like the Jesus myths, there were often multiple myths for pagan gods as well, including interchangeability in some cases.
http://www.religioustolerance.org...

The objection "I've never heard of that", is no more than a plea to ignorance, not an argument from knowledge.

"Taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain by his arch-rival Sut."

That's likely the supposed sight of one of numerous Set-Horus battles for supremacy.

"Twelve disciples"

Your own source says that this is disputed.

"Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind"

Horus once had a boat race (but didn't walk on water), casting demons is a ridiculously common practice in ancient Egyptian magic and myths, and he didn't restore sight to the blind. He was a war god, not a healer, and he did lose an eye in a fight once.

"Anu, an Egyptian city where the rites of the death, burial and resurrection of Horus were enacted annually."

Other than some bogus translations, Anu was a Mesopotamian sky-god.

"[transfigured o]n a mountain"

That's actually a fairly common occurrence for a god to change form in Egyptian mythology. They had human forms, animal forms, human-animal forms, etc.

"[died b]y crucifixion or by the sting of a scorpion [accompanied by] Two thieves [buried] In a tomb [, his fate was he ]Descended into Hell; resurrected after three days"

Your own source admits this is disputed. Besides, Horus didn't die, as I pointed out earlier he was protector of Pharaoh.

I could go on. The point is: don't give me any of your sources again if this is all you have.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/27/2014 1:14:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 8:51:18 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:52:41 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Because in Judaism, we don't believe the Messiah has come yet.

Why?

Dude,
Most professing "Christians" don't even know that Jesus is the Messiah, or what that means, or who he is, or what he's done.

Go into an average "church" and you won't hear ANYTHING about the BLOOD, or about the TYPES and SHADOWS of CHRIST that are in the Old Testament.

Furthermore, Judaism is nothing but an apostate, wicked rejection of God's holy Son.

So, if you have respect and passion for Judaism, you have respect and passion for Satan.

Christ told those unbelieving Jews, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do." (John 8:44)

They rejected God's Son, demonstrating their hatred of God.
And Jews, to this day, still reject God's Son.

And so, you need to make up your mind, are you a Christian or not?
Judaism is an apostate religion.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/27/2014 1:21:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 1:14:48 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 8:51:18 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:52:41 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Because in Judaism, we don't believe the Messiah has come yet.

Why?

Dude,
Most professing "Christians" don't even know that Jesus is the Messiah, or what that means, or who he is, or what he's done.

Go into an average "church" and you won't hear ANYTHING about the BLOOD, or about the TYPES and SHADOWS of CHRIST that are in the Old Testament.

Furthermore, Judaism is nothing but an apostate, wicked rejection of God's holy Son.

So, if you have respect and passion for Judaism, you have respect and passion for Satan.

Christ told those unbelieving Jews, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do." (John 8:44)

They rejected God's Son, demonstrating their hatred of God.

More inaccuracies. Jesus did not say that to unbelieving Jews. He said it to Jews who believed on Him, but would not follow through.

At John 8: 30, it is said, "As he spake these things, many believed on him." There is positively no change in the audience addressed between v 30 and v 44. You can't see it because your doctrine makes no room for an unsaved believer.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/27/2014 1:24:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 1:21:20 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:14:48 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 8:51:18 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:52:41 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Because in Judaism, we don't believe the Messiah has come yet.

Why?

Dude,
Most professing "Christians" don't even know that Jesus is the Messiah, or what that means, or who he is, or what he's done.

Go into an average "church" and you won't hear ANYTHING about the BLOOD, or about the TYPES and SHADOWS of CHRIST that are in the Old Testament.

Furthermore, Judaism is nothing but an apostate, wicked rejection of God's holy Son.

So, if you have respect and passion for Judaism, you have respect and passion for Satan.

Christ told those unbelieving Jews, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do." (John 8:44)

They rejected God's Son, demonstrating their hatred of God.

More inaccuracies. Jesus did not say that to unbelieving Jews. He said it to Jews who believed on Him, but would not follow through.

At John 8: 30, it is said, "As he spake these things, many believed on him." There is positively no change in the audience addressed between v 30 and v 44. You can't see it because your doctrine makes no room for an unsaved believer.

Ok, now I know you're just a troll, and not for real.
I'm not even going to bother to show you you're wrong.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/27/2014 1:28:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 1:24:47 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:21:20 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:14:48 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 8:51:18 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:52:41 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Because in Judaism, we don't believe the Messiah has come yet.

Why?

Dude,
Most professing "Christians" don't even know that Jesus is the Messiah, or what that means, or who he is, or what he's done.

Go into an average "church" and you won't hear ANYTHING about the BLOOD, or about the TYPES and SHADOWS of CHRIST that are in the Old Testament.

Furthermore, Judaism is nothing but an apostate, wicked rejection of God's holy Son.

So, if you have respect and passion for Judaism, you have respect and passion for Satan.

Christ told those unbelieving Jews, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do." (John 8:44)

They rejected God's Son, demonstrating their hatred of God.

More inaccuracies. Jesus did not say that to unbelieving Jews. He said it to Jews who believed on Him, but would not follow through.

At John 8: 30, it is said, "As he spake these things, many believed on him." There is positively no change in the audience addressed between v 30 and v 44. You can't see it because your doctrine makes no room for an unsaved believer.

Ok, now I know you're just a troll, and not for real.
I'm not even going to bother to show you you're wrong.

That's because you can't. To prove it, give the verse # at which the audience changes. That's all I'd ask. Know what? We'll never see that verse. To fit your doctrine, you'll just have to assume it. Calvinism does that kind of stuff to you.

V 30: "As he spake these things, many believed on him."
v 44: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do."

Point out the passage in the middle that proves a change in the audience.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/27/2014 1:37:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 1:28:32 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:24:47 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:21:20 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/27/2014 1:14:48 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 8:51:18 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:52:41 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Because in Judaism, we don't believe the Messiah has come yet.

Why?

Dude,
Most professing "Christians" don't even know that Jesus is the Messiah, or what that means, or who he is, or what he's done.

Go into an average "church" and you won't hear ANYTHING about the BLOOD, or about the TYPES and SHADOWS of CHRIST that are in the Old Testament.

Furthermore, Judaism is nothing but an apostate, wicked rejection of God's holy Son.

So, if you have respect and passion for Judaism, you have respect and passion for Satan.

Christ told those unbelieving Jews, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do." (John 8:44)

They rejected God's Son, demonstrating their hatred of God.

More inaccuracies. Jesus did not say that to unbelieving Jews. He said it to Jews who believed on Him, but would not follow through.

At John 8: 30, it is said, "As he spake these things, many believed on him." There is positively no change in the audience addressed between v 30 and v 44. You can't see it because your doctrine makes no room for an unsaved believer.

Ok, now I know you're just a troll, and not for real.
I'm not even going to bother to show you you're wrong.

That's because you can't. To prove it, give the verse # at which the audience changes. That's all I'd ask. Know what? We'll never see that verse. To fit your doctrine, you'll just have to assume it. Calvinism does that kind of stuff to you.

V 30: "As he spake these things, many believed on him."
v 44: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do."

Point out the passage in the middle that proves a change in the audience.

He's still addressing the same people, yes.

But if you think trying to stone him to death reflects their belief in him, then you're even more insane than I realized.