Total Posts:27|Showing Posts:1-27
Jump to topic:

Do atheists really deserve to burn in Hell?

mcalvert
Posts: 5
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 3:03:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Many Christians tend to hold rather barbaric ideologies because they are barbarians at heart, and tend to thrive on hatred. This is just their modern day version of The Crusades. Christians tend to resist change, acceptance of civilized behaviors, and the emergence of new knowledge. It's hard to be civilized when you worship and idolize a heinous barbarian of a God.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 3:32:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Heaven to theists is some place they go after killing innocents in the name of God. So according to conservatives when a theist blows himself up(suicide bombing) , goes to heaven where cavemen are waiting for him with open mouths. Lol
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
mcalvert
Posts: 5
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 1:04:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 3:03:46 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Many Christians tend to hold rather barbaric ideologies because they are barbarians at heart, and tend to thrive on hatred. This is just their modern day version of The Crusades. Christians tend to resist change, acceptance of civilized behaviors, and the emergence of new knowledge. It's hard to be civilized when you worship and idolize a heinous barbarian of a God.

It's funny you brought up the crusades because I just asked a Christian to explain them. My question was if the Crusaders went to Heaven or Hell. They had been completely manipulated by the Pope and thought what they were doing was what God had wanted them to do, so if they went to Hell, how were they supposed to know better? It seems completely barbaric if they went to Hell for doing what they thought was right. And if they went to Heaven, religion is screwed up anyways. That means the Ten Commandments don't need to be followed, which means Christianity is completely baseless. What set of rules are they if you don't have to follow them? And, if they went to heaven, so should Atheists. Unfortunately, the person I asked never answered me :(
SemperVI
Posts: 294
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 1:37:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Unfortunately mcalvert - this is why I no longer go to church or really consider myself a Christian anymore. Personally I think the whole hell thing is nothing more than an empty threat designed to keep "souls" in the pews. I personally find it insulting when any christian makes a judgement call that someone or a group of someones is going to hell. People who do this have another agenda of creating the "Us" vs "Them" attitude.

As far as your question is concerned. Of course not - atheists do not deserve to burn in hell, nor are they going to burn in hell. Having said that - your an atheist so I won't bother you with why you won't go to hell.
mcalvert
Posts: 5
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 2:06:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 1:37:49 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Unfortunately mcalvert - this is why I no longer go to church or really consider myself a Christian anymore. Personally I think the whole hell thing is nothing more than an empty threat designed to keep "souls" in the pews. I personally find it insulting when any christian makes a judgement call that someone or a group of someones is going to hell. People who do this have another agenda of creating the "Us" vs "Them" attitude.

As far as your question is concerned. Of course not - atheists do not deserve to burn in hell, nor are they going to burn in hell. Having said that - your an atheist so I won't bother you with why you won't go to hell.

Well of course I don't believe I'm going to Hell. Even if I was, I don't believe in Hell, so I don't care. I'm asking because I wonder how people can possibly think this way. There are some people who say atheists deserve to go to Hell, but when I ask why, they never respond. Ever. This isn't about self-validation; I just want an answer from a Christian.

In church, the worst part was not the priest screaming at atheists; it was the guy sitting next to me that always called out "Yeah!" or "Amen" right after the priest said something personally offensive to me. Just, why? If I don't get an answer, I will have to conclude Christians (that believe this) are heartless idiots, which I rather not do.
Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 2:52:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Bible seems to suggest that only people who believe in Jesus can go to heaven. However, it also suggests that an honest mistake (e.g. not really hearing about God or hearing a completely distorted version of Him) isn't automatically damnable. We don't know how much God will extend His grace beyond the point which is certain to us.

You must understand that God's judgement is NOT dictated by any Christian or any other person for that matter. If it were up to me, I'd honestly let in far too many non-Christians - even bulproof, as long as he posthumously admits he's wrong and apologizes for his forum behaviour. What's really guaranteed is that faith DOES bring salvation, and that God's judgement WILL be fair, and anyone who is saved, is saved only through Jesus Christ. If you feel like you shouldn't go to Hell, then, by all means, take it up to the Big Guy.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 3:08:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Sorry that happened to you. People shouldn't treat another with hate or insult one another like that.

But to answer your question, atheists don't deserve to burn in hell and they never will, because there is no hell. Hell is simply an abstract idea that was meant to metaphorically demonstrate separation from God and spiritual underdevelopment. It's obviously not a physical place, yet many people have taken hell quite literally and assume it's some place hidden somewhere in the universe that has plenty of fire that will somehow burn your non-physical body.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:06:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.

So is hell eternal torment or is it eternal separation?
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:06:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 3:03:46 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Many Christians tend to hold rather barbaric ideologies because they are barbarians at heart, and tend to thrive on hatred. This is just their modern day version of The Crusades. Christians tend to resist change, acceptance of civilized behaviors, and the emergence of new knowledge. It's hard to be civilized when you worship and idolize a heinous barbarian of a God.

Can you not see that you're doing the same thing as those Christians at that Church?

Also if you're judging all Christians by the example of the Crusades I guess I can judge all atheists by the standards of Stalinism.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:07:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:06:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.

So is hell eternal torment or is it eternal separation?

Both. Part of the torment IS the separation.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:09:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:07:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:06:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.

So is hell eternal torment or is it eternal separation?

Both. Part of the torment IS the separation.

Hell is clearly depicted as a fiery place in the Bible. Have you ever burned your hand on the stove logicalunatic?
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:11:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:09:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:07:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:06:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.

So is hell eternal torment or is it eternal separation?

Both. Part of the torment IS the separation.

Hell is clearly depicted as a fiery place in the Bible. Have you ever burned your hand on the stove logicalunatic?

I burnt a little bit of skin from my arm on a hot pan one time. But yes, eternal torment is what we all deserve.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:13:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:11:14 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:09:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:07:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:06:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.

So is hell eternal torment or is it eternal separation?

Both. Part of the torment IS the separation.

Hell is clearly depicted as a fiery place in the Bible. Have you ever burned your hand on the stove logicalunatic?

I burnt a little bit of skin from my arm on a hot pan one time. But yes, eternal torment is what we all deserve.

Picture yourself as a non-believer for a moment. You live your life intending no harm to anybody. You wake up and you're in an eternal torture chamber. You're forced to have your skin, eyes, teeth, and every part of your body pressed against a hot pan forever and ever and ever. Do you deserve this?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:20:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Does a child ever deserve to be tortured by his father for disobedience? Is this father the epitome of love?
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:20:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:13:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:11:14 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:09:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:07:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:06:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.

So is hell eternal torment or is it eternal separation?

Both. Part of the torment IS the separation.

Hell is clearly depicted as a fiery place in the Bible. Have you ever burned your hand on the stove logicalunatic?

I burnt a little bit of skin from my arm on a hot pan one time. But yes, eternal torment is what we all deserve.

Picture yourself as a non-believer for a moment. You live your life intending no harm to anybody. You wake up and you're in an eternal torture chamber. You're forced to have your skin, eyes, teeth, and every part of your body pressed against a hot pan forever and ever and ever. Do you deserve this?

Yes, as do Christians. Picture it this way:
Who is the most innocent person that you know? Is it let's say you know the sweetest 3 year old kid. Let's just say that you intentionally murdered that kid just because you wanted to. Why would this be more despicable than murdering a mobster? Because the child is more innocent.
God is the most innocent being in the Universe. In fact, He is infinitely good. Disobeying God's rules is hurting an infinitely good being, which is an infinitely bad crime, deserving infinite (eternal) punishment.
But the good news is that you don't have to receive the punishment that you deserve. Jesus paid the penalty through His death and resurrection. You too can receive the gift of salvation, as countless sinners throughout history (known as "Christians") have chosen to do.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:24:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:20:04 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Does a child ever deserve to be tortured by his father for disobedience? Is this father the epitome of love?

No, because the child's father is not infinitely innocent or good, making the crime against his father not so bad.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:30:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:20:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:13:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:11:14 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:09:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:07:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:06:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.

So is hell eternal torment or is it eternal separation?

Both. Part of the torment IS the separation.

Hell is clearly depicted as a fiery place in the Bible. Have you ever burned your hand on the stove logicalunatic?

I burnt a little bit of skin from my arm on a hot pan one time. But yes, eternal torment is what we all deserve.

Picture yourself as a non-believer for a moment. You live your life intending no harm to anybody. You wake up and you're in an eternal torture chamber. You're forced to have your skin, eyes, teeth, and every part of your body pressed against a hot pan forever and ever and ever. Do you deserve this?

Yes, as do Christians. Picture it this way:
Who is the most innocent person that you know? Is it let's say you know the sweetest 3 year old kid. Let's just say that you intentionally murdered that kid just because you wanted to. Why would this be more despicable than murdering a mobster? Because the child is more innocent.
God is the most innocent being in the Universe. In fact, He is infinitely good. Disobeying God's rules is hurting an infinitely good being, which is an infinitely bad crime, deserving infinite (eternal) punishment.
But the good news is that you don't have to receive the punishment that you deserve. Jesus paid the penalty through His death and resurrection. You too can receive the gift of salvation, as countless sinners throughout history (known as "Christians") have chosen to do.

"This argument has a few major problems associated with it. First of all, the idea that the severity of a crime is dependant on the "different worth and dignity" of the offended persons is a completely medieval notion that the Bible expressly teaches against. The Law of Moses was given largely in part to guide God's people away from this erroneous doctrine. Through Moses, God clearly taught that, no matter who a person was, they could not kill another human being without consequence. When a crime is committed, regardless of how unloving the victim might be, the punishment had to be the same"an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. All throughout the Bible, God is shown to be no respecter of persons. He also counsels us against showing any favoritism (James 2, for example).

Secondly, the above argument fully avoids the real issue. Yes, God is an infinite God. I certainly don't argue against that point. He is infinitely loving, infinitely holy, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal. He's all of those things, but what does it mean? Does God's being infinitely holy really mean that even one small sin (the kind that Christians commit many times a day) is so offensive to Him that the only thing that can make it right is to suffer agonizing cruelty for trillions upon trillions upon trillions of years? Let's just think for a moment about the logic behind this. After the first billion years or so, would an infinitely loving God really think "No, that's not quite enough"? What practical meaning could the description "infinitely loving" even have if God can allow the never-ending anguish of billions of people and still deserve the title? Do we just call Him all of those nice things because we have to? Or is it because God really is loving, holy, etc.?"
jeremyandchristine.com/articles/eternal.php
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 4:36:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:24:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:20:04 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Does a child ever deserve to be tortured by his father for disobedience? Is this father the epitome of love?

No, because the child's father is not infinitely innocent or good, making the crime against his father not so bad.

If his father had never sinned, and the boy told his first lie, under your logic the father is justified in torturing the child until he dies.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 5:26:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 1:04:09 PM, mcalvert wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:03:46 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Many Christians tend to hold rather barbaric ideologies because they are barbarians at heart, and tend to thrive on hatred. This is just their modern day version of The Crusades. Christians tend to resist change, acceptance of civilized behaviors, and the emergence of new knowledge. It's hard to be civilized when you worship and idolize a heinous barbarian of a God.

It's funny you brought up the crusades because I just asked a Christian to explain them. My question was if the Crusaders went to Heaven or Hell. They had been completely manipulated by the Pope and thought what they were doing was what God had wanted them to do, so if they went to Hell, how were they supposed to know better? It seems completely barbaric if they went to Hell for doing what they thought was right. And if they went to Heaven, religion is screwed up anyways. That means the Ten Commandments don't need to be followed, which means Christianity is completely baseless. What set of rules are they if you don't have to follow them? And, if they went to heaven, so should Atheists. Unfortunately, the person I asked never answered me :(

They likely had to seek new programming to regurgitate. Debate is a bitch when you have to borrow all of your arguments because... "thinking for yourself is the work of the Devil".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
mcalvert
Posts: 5
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 7:37:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 4:20:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:13:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:11:14 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:09:38 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:07:42 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:06:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:04:09 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/24/2014 4:01:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/24/2014 3:58:50 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

EVERYONE deserves Hell. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Ignostics, Mormons, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Shinto people, Taoists, Satanists, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, etc. All human beings deserve Hell.
Christian Salvation is NOT due to Christians being more holy. Christians are often just as bad, or even worse, than none-Christians. Christians are merely those who accept the gift of salvation that is available to all humans.

Do you deserve to be strapped to a chair and have your teeth ripped out with pliers for not believing in God?

Well, it would seem that not believing in God would be sinful, as are other behaviors. So in a sense, yes. But Christians also deserve eternal separation from God.

So is hell eternal torment or is it eternal separation?

Both. Part of the torment IS the separation.

Hell is clearly depicted as a fiery place in the Bible. Have you ever burned your hand on the stove logicalunatic?

I burnt a little bit of skin from my arm on a hot pan one time. But yes, eternal torment is what we all deserve.

Picture yourself as a non-believer for a moment. You live your life intending no harm to anybody. You wake up and you're in an eternal torture chamber. You're forced to have your skin, eyes, teeth, and every part of your body pressed against a hot pan forever and ever and ever. Do you deserve this?

Yes, as do Christians. Picture it this way:
Who is the most innocent person that you know? Is it let's say you know the sweetest 3 year old kid. Let's just say that you intentionally murdered that kid just because you wanted to. Why would this be more despicable than murdering a mobster? Because the child is more innocent.
God is the most innocent being in the Universe. In fact, He is infinitely good. Disobeying God's rules is hurting an infinitely good being, which is an infinitely bad crime, deserving infinite (eternal) punishment.
But the good news is that you don't have to receive the punishment that you deserve. Jesus paid the penalty through His death and resurrection. You too can receive the gift of salvation, as countless sinners throughout history (known as "Christians") have chosen to do.

LogicalLunatic- Let me ask you a simple question. During the Crusades, a Pope convinced his people that they should kill other people, otherwise they go to Hell. Nobody wants to end up in Hell (If they believe in it), so the people murdered others. They have committed a major sin. And they do not apologize for it because they think God wants them to do it. Do they deserve Heaven or Hell?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 10:29:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/23/2014 10:18:57 PM, mcalvert wrote:
I am atheist, and recently I politely decided to attend church with my cousins because they are Christian. It was probably my worst decision ever, because the lesson that day was about atheists. I was bombarded with hate, and drowned in insults. They called atheists "scoffers" and said they will end up in Hell just for being atheist. I don't understand how people can believe that, and at the same time, think that God is loving and forgiving. Can you please explain this to me without imbedding insults?

Christians have no idea what the prophecies mean or who our invisible Creator is so don't worry about what they say. Their bodies are all going to die, too. just like everyone else's body does.