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Ontological Argument For The Existence Of God

Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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7/24/2014 1:17:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
1. It is possible that a maximally great being exists.

2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.

3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

5. If a maximally great being exists in the actual world, then a maximally great being exists.

6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

What do you think of this?
Keltron
Posts: 161
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7/24/2014 1:29:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 1:17:41 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
1. It is possible that a maximally great being exists.

2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.

3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

5. If a maximally great being exists in the actual world, then a maximally great being exists.

6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

What do you think of this?

Well, I'm not sure how you make the leap from 2 to 3, but let me just say this: if there is a maximal being, it is only maximal because it is superlative to all other beings. If all other beings are idiots, then the maximal being only needs to be slightly less idiotic.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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7/24/2014 1:39:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 1:17:41 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
1. It is possible that a maximally great being exists.

2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.

3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

5. If a maximally great being exists in the actual world, then a maximally great being exists.

6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

What do you think of this?

What determines what is or isn't "maximal" ? You say a maximal being must be all knowing, I say a maximal being doesn't allow child rape by priests.

1) A maximal being would not allow a child to be raped by priests
2) A child has being raped by a priest
C) Therefore a maximal being does not exist
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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7/24/2014 1:56:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
1) A maximal being would only create/allow the best of all possible worlds
2) We don't live in the best possible of all worlds
C) Therefore a maximal being does not exist
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Amoranemix
Posts: 521
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7/24/2014 2:50:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
In the recent thread
http://www.debate.org...
I guy nicknamed installgentoo asked people about almost the exact same argument. It was explained to him why the argument was unsound and I concluded the thread with
"It doesn't look like anyone has the heart to argue that installgentoo's argument does anything more than deceive people into believing in God."

In the previous thread, the lack of good definitions was also a problem that installgentoo was unable to solve.
The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/24/2014 5:41:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 1:29:18 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 7/24/2014 1:17:41 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
1. It is possible that a maximally great being exists.

2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.

3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

5. If a maximally great being exists in the actual world, then a maximally great being exists.

6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

What do you think of this?

Well, I'm not sure how you make the leap from 2 to 3, but let me just say this: if there is a maximal being, it is only maximal because it is superlative to all other beings. If all other beings are idiots, then the maximal being only needs to be slightly less idiotic.

It's a modal argument, and literally the only premise you can dispute is P1, as that is the only premise that contains information. The rest if you accept the S5 systems is about as sound as 2+2=4.

But it is true you need to be very careful about the semantics used. Possible 'worlds' and 'possibility' and 'necessity' mean very different things in modal logic then in colloquial use, similar to how 'fact' and 'theory' in science are very different.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/24/2014 5:43:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 2:50:27 AM, Amoranemix wrote:
In the recent thread
http://www.debate.org...
I guy nicknamed installgentoo asked people about almost the exact same argument. It was explained to him why the argument was unsound and I concluded the thread with
"It doesn't look like anyone has the heart to argue that installgentoo's argument does anything more than deceive people into believing in God."

In the previous thread, the lack of good definitions was also a problem that installgentoo was unable to solve.

Instal is a well known troll. He just posts stuff and uses a superiority complex, or posts derogatory stuff and then leaves the thread and let's it blow up.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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7/24/2014 5:55:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 1:17:41 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
1. It is possible that a maximally great being exists.

2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.

3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.

4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

5. If a maximally great being exists in the actual world, then a maximally great being exists.

6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

What do you think of this?

Don't see god anywhere here. The "maximally great being" could be the universe itself. The use of the word "being" is little more than shoehorning personification. Strictly speaking all this is proving is that there exists at least some truth which is true in all possible worlds.

That's it.