Total Posts:344|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Atheists/Agnostics Lie:They Too Have Religion

Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 9:50:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Theists believe in an uncreated being that originated all of creation, including the universe and life itself. Many atheists and agnostics, if not all, believe that matter/energy is uncreated, where the universe and life itself originated from.

Theists rely on the authority of prophets for their religious beliefs. Atheists/Agnostics rely on the authority of scientists for their beliefs. Theists rely on scripture as their book of authority. Atheist/agnostics rely on what is considered peer-reviewed articles, journals, and web links with science information.

As can be seen, the basis of their beliefs are no different than theists. Thus atheists/agnostics do have a religion. We can sum it up as:

Atheists/Agnostics God: Matter/Energy aka Lord Matter/Energy

The Messengers of their God: Scientists-Lawrence Krauss, Richard Dawkins, Stephen Law, Charles Darwin, etc..

Their scripture: Anything considered as peer-reviewed or written by scientists. AKA The Holy Science Fiction.

So according to your religion, you have the burden of proof to provide evidence for evolution, and whether you God, Lord Matter/Energy, actually exist.

So where is your proof.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 10:06:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Go to twitter of their prophet richard dawkins they are following him there...
Never fart near dog
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 10:28:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yes. They have many prophets. Dawkins, Krauss, Darwin, and others. All of which they follow blindly, worshipping their God Matter/Energy. We just need proof that such a God exist.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 10:31:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is one of the most common of the theist claims which demonstrates a pure inability even to think for themselves. When everything is examined it comes down to:

1. Ideas about the origin of the universe
2. Listening to someone else about those ideas.

And somehow, the most thoughtless of the thoughtless, equate this to religion. Well, there are a number of problems with this which are readily apparent to those who don't have heads filled with sand or sacrament. Firstly, atheists aren't the only ones who listen to scientists. If theists didn't listen to scientists, none of them would own computers, televisions, cell phones, wrist watches, GPS units, printed books, light bulbs, water heaters, toilets, telephones, cars, refrigerators, cameras, printers, access to medical, dental, vision, etc.

So while we don't listen at all to your silly "prophets", you most certainly do subscribe to nearly every claim and product of science. But when science won't bend over for you and have some of the silliest of the silly stories ever told inserted into their methodology of honesty, accuracy and principles, suddenly you see science as the enemy. And the heck of it is, you often voice your displeasure of science being brutally honest by leaping to your computers, your routers, your, modems, your Internet connections and all of the things science has brought you, to loudly proclaim how wrong and horrible science is. Well... tough.

Belief in a model to explain the universe isn't a religion, Doornail.
Listening to people who can actually demonstrate their knowledge of reality, isn't a religion, Douche Nozzle.

If you're going to cling to your dusty, musty, out-dated, falsified, idiotic, ancient fairytales, then do so with some integrity. Move yourself into a cave or under a log, get rid of anything with wires, circuits, transmitters, receivers, chemicals, machined parts, displays, and complex mechanisms, and replace your modern lighting with a wad of fibers dipped in animal fat. Dig a hole in the corner for a bathroom. And until you do, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

But before you move yourself back to living in primitive squalor to match your primitive feeble intellect, grab a dictionary, look up the word "religion", and learn what it says.

- Atheism is a religion, like abstinence is a sex position.
- Atheism is a religion, the way not collecting stamps is a hobby.
- Atheism is a religion, like teetotaling is a form of alcoholism.

Religion, n.
- "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Not even close. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods... period.
http://dictionary.reference.com...
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 10:34:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 10:28:04 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Yes. They have many prophets. Dawkins, Krauss, Darwin, and others. All of which they follow blindly, worshipping their God Matter/Energy. We just need proof that such a God exist.

When have any of these highly intelligent, well educated individuals who engage in methodologies of discovery based on reality itself, ever proclaimed to obtain knowledge from any supernatural force, or any "creator" of the universe?

The only thing you've demonstrated is your devout ignorance. You don't even understand the difference between a "prophet" (fraud), and a scientist.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 10:47:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 10:06:15 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Go to twitter of their prophet richard dawkins they are following him there...

Prophet, n.

- "a member of some religions (such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) who delivers messages that are believed to have come from God"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Keep waving that religiously-motivated ignorance like a proud flag.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 11:09:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 10:34:14 PM, Beastt wrote:

When have any of these highly intelligent, well educated individuals who engage in methodologies of discovery based on reality itself, ever proclaimed to obtain knowledge from any supernatural force, or any "creator" of the universe?

The only thing you've demonstrated is your devout ignorance. You don't even understand the difference between a "prophet" (fraud), and a scientist.

Response: Idiocy is not high intelligence. Yet of course, since these Dawkins, Darwin, and Krauss are the Messengers of your God, you would suggest so. The problem is, when we read your scripture, we see nothing but falsehood. Thus proving your religion of Atheism as false, since your God cannot be proven.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 11:12:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 10:47:05 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:06:15 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Go to twitter of their prophet richard dawkins they are following him there...

Prophet, n.

- "a member of some religions (such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) who delivers messages that are believed to have come from God"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Keep waving that religiously-motivated ignorance like a proud flag.

richard dawkins is the god of atheism. booga booga booga!!! https://www.youtube.com...
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 11:33:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 11:09:23 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:34:14 PM, Beastt wrote:

When have any of these highly intelligent, well educated individuals who engage in methodologies of discovery based on reality itself, ever proclaimed to obtain knowledge from any supernatural force, or any "creator" of the universe?

The only thing you've demonstrated is your devout ignorance. You don't even understand the difference between a "prophet" (fraud), and a scientist.

Response: Idiocy is not high intelligence. Yet of course, since these Dawkins, Darwin, and Krauss are the Messengers of your God, you would suggest so. The problem is, when we read your scripture, we see nothing but falsehood. Thus proving your religion of Atheism as false, since your God cannot be proven.

To admit you cant throw everything they are saying.. at the end they are scientists (some of them..) but the problem everything they saying poeple licking it. for example they experts on morality when is comes in atheism its all subjective... or regarding philosophy as rubbish, thats make dawkins rubbish too. poeple following him too much in everything he says, i dont know what stuff hiding inside daw's butt that makes them following him blindly....
Never fart near dog
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 11:36:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 10:31:42 PM, Beastt wrote:

Religion, n.
- "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Not even close. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods... period.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Response: and according to your own definition, you do have a religion. You claim that Matter/Energy originated the universe and life itself, thus believing in a Superhuman agent. Hence, your God is Matter/Energy. From this concept is where your moral code and your ritual observances stem from. Thus you have a religion. The only difference is that you have yet to prove your God exist. Thus atheism is false.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 11:39:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 11:12:27 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:47:05 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:06:15 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Go to twitter of their prophet richard dawkins they are following him there...

Prophet, n.

- "a member of some religions (such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) who delivers messages that are believed to have come from God"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Keep waving that religiously-motivated ignorance like a proud flag.

richard dawkins is the god of atheism. booga booga booga!!! https://www.youtube.com...

If/when you have something of substance to contribute, do so.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 11:42:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 11:39:17 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/24/2014 11:12:27 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:47:05 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:06:15 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Go to twitter of their prophet richard dawkins they are following him there...

Prophet, n.

- "a member of some religions (such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) who delivers messages that are believed to have come from God"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Keep waving that religiously-motivated ignorance like a proud flag.

richard dawkins is the god of atheism. booga booga booga!!! https://www.youtube.com...

If/when you have something of substance to contribute, do so.

Sir yes sir!
Never fart near dog
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 11:44:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 11:33:24 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

To admit you cant throw everything they are saying.. at the end they are scientists (some of them..) but the problem everything they saying poeple licking it. for example they experts on morality when is comes in atheism its all subjective... or regarding philosophy as rubbish, thats make dawkins rubbish too. poeple following him too much in everything he says, i dont know what stuff hiding inside daw's butt that makes them following him blindly....

Response: Anytime you provide evidence and say that such evidence is proof that God does not exist, when logic clearly shows otherwise, then we can logically throw away such reasoning and denounce idiots like Krauss, Darwin, Dawkins, and the rest of the Messengers of their God Matter/Energy.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/24/2014 11:57:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 11:36:59 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:31:42 PM, Beastt wrote:

Religion, n.
- "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Not even close. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods... period.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Response: and according to your own definition, you do have a religion. You claim that Matter/Energy originated the universe and life itself, thus believing in a Superhuman agent.
Matter/energy is NOT "superhuman", not "human", not intelligent, and not sentient.

Hence, your God is Matter/Energy.
No, matter/energy is JUST matter/energy. We don't worship it, pray to it, talk to it, or think it cares about us.

From this concept is where your moral code and your ritual observances stem from.
My moral code has nothing to do with matter/energy, how the universe we know formed, nor does it include any form of ritual observances. Why do you think making up easily defeated lies is going to give you credibility?

Thus you have a religion.
No I don't. Don't just read the definition and then regurgitate the words and phrases in claims that they fit atheism. Figure out what those words and phrases mean. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods. It has no set belief regarding the origin of the universe. If someone believes that no gods exist, but believes that the universe was produced by a extra-cosmic talking star burping out galaxies, they're still an atheist. If they believe the universe is a complete illusion and non-existent, they're still an atheist. If they believe the universe is unchanging, unexpanding, stagnant and stable, they're still an atheist. Atheism has NOTHING to do with anything regarding the origin of the universe.

ATHEISM is... disbelief in any gods. And that's ALL it is.

There is no atheist moral code, no atheist rituals, no atheist prophets, no worship, no references to the concept of superhuman anything, and no implied purpose to the universe, people, crack pipes or individuals with heads so filled with sand that they can't manage even 3rd grade level cognition.

The only difference is that you have yet to prove your God exist. Thus atheism is false.
We have no god. And that's EVERYTHING that atheism is.

Atheism does not address the origin of the universe.
Atheism does not address moral codes.
Atheism does not address the origin of life.
Atheism does not address the origin of species.
Atheism does not address ritual practices.
Atheism IS.. disbelief in gods, and it doesn't address anything but that.

Do you own a watch? Does that mean that owning a watch is part of Islam? Do you believe your computer is connected to a network? Does that mean every Muslim believes his computer is connected to a network? You're connecting things which simply aren't connected.

Loosen your turban, Hadji. You're cutting off the oxygen to your brain.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 12:04:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 11:57:37 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/24/2014 11:36:59 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:31:42 PM, Beastt wrote:

Religion, n.
- "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Not even close. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods... period.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Response: and according to your own definition, you do have a religion. You claim that Matter/Energy originated the universe and life itself, thus believing in a Superhuman agent.
Matter/energy is NOT "superhuman", not "human", not intelligent, and not sentient.

Hence, your God is Matter/Energy.
No, matter/energy is JUST matter/energy. We don't worship it, pray to it, talk to it, or think it cares about us.

From this concept is where your moral code and your ritual observances stem from.
My moral code has nothing to do with matter/energy, how the universe we know formed, nor does it include any form of ritual observances. Why do you think making up easily defeated lies is going to give you credibility?

Thus you have a religion.
No I don't. Don't just read the definition and then regurgitate the words and phrases in claims that they fit atheism. Figure out what those words and phrases mean. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods. It has no set belief regarding the origin of the universe. If someone believes that no gods exist, but believes that the universe was produced by a extra-cosmic talking star burping out galaxies, they're still an atheist. If they believe the universe is a complete illusion and non-existent, they're still an atheist. If they believe the universe is unchanging, unexpanding, stagnant and stable, they're still an atheist. Atheism has NOTHING to do with anything regarding the origin of the universe.

ATHEISM is... disbelief in any gods. And that's ALL it is.

There is no atheist moral code, no atheist rituals, no atheist prophets, no worship, no references to the concept of superhuman anything, and no implied purpose to the universe, people, crack pipes or individuals with heads so filled with sand that they can't manage even 3rd grade level cognition.

The only difference is that you have yet to prove your God exist. Thus atheism is false.
We have no god. And that's EVERYTHING that atheism is.

Atheism does not address the origin of the universe.
Atheism does not address moral codes.
Atheism does not address the origin of life.
Atheism does not address the origin of species.
Atheism does not address ritual practices.
Atheism IS.. disbelief in gods, and it doesn't address anything but that.

Do you own a watch? Does that mean that owning a watch is part of Islam? Do you believe your computer is connected to a network? Does that mean every Muslim believes his computer is connected to a network? You're connecting things which simply aren't connected.

Loosen your turban, Hadji. You're cutting off the oxygen to your brain.

Response: Your God Matter/Energy is uncreated and created the universe. Something no human can do. Thus it is Superhuman, and you have a God. Of course, you are ashamed of such a pathetic God.

And part of your ritual in your religion is to believe, according to your prophets Krauss and Dawkins, is that morality originates from this God. Yet you have no proof, thus proving your ideology of atheism is false, and your God Matter/Energy is false.
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 12:11:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 12:04:10 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/24/2014 11:57:37 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/24/2014 11:36:59 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:31:42 PM, Beastt wrote:

Religion, n.
- "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Not even close. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods... period.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Response: and according to your own definition, you do have a religion. You claim that Matter/Energy originated the universe and life itself, thus believing in a Superhuman agent.
Matter/energy is NOT "superhuman", not "human", not intelligent, and not sentient.

Hence, your God is Matter/Energy.
No, matter/energy is JUST matter/energy. We don't worship it, pray to it, talk to it, or think it cares about us.

From this concept is where your moral code and your ritual observances stem from.
My moral code has nothing to do with matter/energy, how the universe we know formed, nor does it include any form of ritual observances. Why do you think making up easily defeated lies is going to give you credibility?

Thus you have a religion.
No I don't. Don't just read the definition and then regurgitate the words and phrases in claims that they fit atheism. Figure out what those words and phrases mean. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods. It has no set belief regarding the origin of the universe. If someone believes that no gods exist, but believes that the universe was produced by a extra-cosmic talking star burping out galaxies, they're still an atheist. If they believe the universe is a complete illusion and non-existent, they're still an atheist. If they believe the universe is unchanging, unexpanding, stagnant and stable, they're still an atheist. Atheism has NOTHING to do with anything regarding the origin of the universe.

ATHEISM is... disbelief in any gods. And that's ALL it is.

There is no atheist moral code, no atheist rituals, no atheist prophets, no worship, no references to the concept of superhuman anything, and no implied purpose to the universe, people, crack pipes or individuals with heads so filled with sand that they can't manage even 3rd grade level cognition.

The only difference is that you have yet to prove your God exist. Thus atheism is false.
We have no god. And that's EVERYTHING that atheism is.

Atheism does not address the origin of the universe.
Atheism does not address moral codes.
Atheism does not address the origin of life.
Atheism does not address the origin of species.
Atheism does not address ritual practices.
Atheism IS.. disbelief in gods, and it doesn't address anything but that.

Do you own a watch? Does that mean that owning a watch is part of Islam? Do you believe your computer is connected to a network? Does that mean every Muslim believes his computer is connected to a network? You're connecting things which simply aren't connected.

Loosen your turban, Hadji. You're cutting off the oxygen to your brain.

Response: Your God Matter/Energy is uncreated and created the universe. Something no human can do. Thus it is Superhuman, and you have a God. Of course, you are ashamed of such a pathetic God.

And part of your ritual in your religion is to believe, according to your prophets Krauss and Dawkins, is that morality originates from this God. Yet you have no proof, thus proving your ideology of atheism is false, and your God Matter/Energy is false.

How exactly is Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins prophets?
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 12:34:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Atheism does not claim anything created the universe. By definition, atheism only says that gods to no exist. So the point is irrelevant.

Science and the word of prophets are not equatable. Science is a process based on experiment and scrutiny. Science is observation of the words around us. The words of prophets are simply words. Their authority cannot be proven in anyway.

And atheists don't worship energy or matter anymore than they worship the sky or the sun or any other natural phenomena which you could possibly think of.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 12:40:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 12:11:38 AM, SamStevens wrote:
At 7/25/2014 12:04:10 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/24/2014 11:57:37 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/24/2014 11:36:59 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/24/2014 10:31:42 PM, Beastt wrote:

Religion, n.
- "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Not even close. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods... period.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Response: and according to your own definition, you do have a religion. You claim that Matter/Energy originated the universe and life itself, thus believing in a Superhuman agent.
Matter/energy is NOT "superhuman", not "human", not intelligent, and not sentient.

Hence, your God is Matter/Energy.
No, matter/energy is JUST matter/energy. We don't worship it, pray to it, talk to it, or think it cares about us.

From this concept is where your moral code and your ritual observances stem from.
My moral code has nothing to do with matter/energy, how the universe we know formed, nor does it include any form of ritual observances. Why do you think making up easily defeated lies is going to give you credibility?

Thus you have a religion.
No I don't. Don't just read the definition and then regurgitate the words and phrases in claims that they fit atheism. Figure out what those words and phrases mean. Atheism is the disbelief in any gods. It has no set belief regarding the origin of the universe. If someone believes that no gods exist, but believes that the universe was produced by a extra-cosmic talking star burping out galaxies, they're still an atheist. If they believe the universe is a complete illusion and non-existent, they're still an atheist. If they believe the universe is unchanging, unexpanding, stagnant and stable, they're still an atheist. Atheism has NOTHING to do with anything regarding the origin of the universe.

ATHEISM is... disbelief in any gods. And that's ALL it is.

There is no atheist moral code, no atheist rituals, no atheist prophets, no worship, no references to the concept of superhuman anything, and no implied purpose to the universe, people, crack pipes or individuals with heads so filled with sand that they can't manage even 3rd grade level cognition.

The only difference is that you have yet to prove your God exist. Thus atheism is false.
We have no god. And that's EVERYTHING that atheism is.

Atheism does not address the origin of the universe.
Atheism does not address moral codes.
Atheism does not address the origin of life.
Atheism does not address the origin of species.
Atheism does not address ritual practices.
Atheism IS.. disbelief in gods, and it doesn't address anything but that.

Do you own a watch? Does that mean that owning a watch is part of Islam? Do you believe your computer is connected to a network? Does that mean every Muslim believes his computer is connected to a network? You're connecting things which simply aren't connected.

Loosen your turban, Hadji. You're cutting off the oxygen to your brain.

Response: Your God Matter/Energy is uncreated and created the universe. Something no human can do. Thus it is Superhuman, and you have a God. Of course, you are ashamed of such a pathetic God.

And part of your ritual in your religion is to believe, according to your prophets Krauss and Dawkins, is that morality originates from this God. Yet you have no proof, thus proving your ideology of atheism is false, and your God Matter/Energy is false.

How exactly is Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins prophets?

Response: Because they claim that their God, Matter/Energy, has left behind evidence that it exist, and that they can see it because they are scientists.
Oromagi
Posts: 857
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 1:01:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/24/2014 9:50:01 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Theists believe in an uncreated being that originated all of creation, including the universe and life itself. Many atheists and agnostics, if not all, believe that matter/energy is uncreated, where the universe and life itself originated from.

Theists rely on the authority of prophets for their religious beliefs. Atheists/Agnostics rely on the authority of scientists for their beliefs. Theists rely on scripture as their book of authority. Atheist/agnostics rely on what is considered peer-reviewed articles, journals, and web links with science information.

As can be seen, the basis of their beliefs are no different than theists. Thus atheists/agnostics do have a religion. We can sum it up as:

Well I'm sure there are some people for whom trust in Dawkins or Darwin is as much an act of faith as the trust some hold in Zoroaster or or Zues. I'm not sure making matter+energy one's god makes much sense to the extent that humans are able to manipulate matter and energy. One can toast a pop-tart and call it God, but what does that get you? Not much. Does such a declaration provide any insight into mankind and his place in the universe? No. I genuinely doubt most of you folks you have declared as worshipers of matter and energy find that statement useful or interesting.

I guess my question is that if all theists must believe in a being created universe and (by your declaration) all athiests must believe in a non-being created universe, what name applies to that segment of the population who tries hard not to pretend they know something with certainty when they are uncertain, who waits for a high degree of confidence before saying something is so.

Faith is by definition belief in the absence of proof. Attempts to prove doctrine can only corrupt the faithful for those doctrines must remain beyond proof.

If, by your definition, Agnostics and Atheists are just another kind of faith, that's fine. Just give us your name for that group that avoids any act of faith. The faithless? The unfaithful? Just give us the name so that some set of honest moderates without agenda can fall under that banner and preclude any requisite whatsoever.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 1:10:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Fatihah wrote;
Response: Your God Matter/Energy is uncreated and created the universe. Something no human can do. Thus it is Superhuman, and you have a God. Of course, you are ashamed of such a pathetic God.

And part of your ritual in your religion is to believe, according to your prophets Krauss and Dawkins, is that morality originates from this God. Yet you have no proof, thus proving your ideology of atheism is false, and your God Matter/Energy is false.

---

- THE FATIHAH GUIDE TO APOLOGETIC DEBATE -

1. Make blind assertion.

2. When assertion is thoroughly, comprehensively and irreversibly refuted, repeat step 1.

- The End -
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 1:51:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 12:34:07 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Atheism does not claim anything created the universe. By definition, atheism only says that gods to no exist. So the point is irrelevant.

Science and the word of prophets are not equatable. Science is a process based on experiment and scrutiny. Science is observation of the words around us. The words of prophets are simply words. Their authority cannot be proven in anyway.

And atheists don't worship energy or matter anymore than they worship the sky or the sun or any other natural phenomena which you could possibly think of.

Response: Atheists nor scientists themselves perform all the science that they believe. They rely on authority of other scientists. Making them no different then relying on prophets.

And atheists don't worship Matter/Energy only because scientists themselves don't teach so. Yet since many believe that Matter/energy is uncreated and originated all creation, that makes it a God. The only difference is they choose not to worship it.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 1:55:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:01:49 AM, Oromagi wrote:

Well I'm sure there are some people for whom trust in Dawkins or Darwin is as much an act of faith as the trust some hold in Zoroaster or or Zues. I'm not sure making matter+energy one's god makes much sense to the extent that humans are able to manipulate matter and energy. One can toast a pop-tart and call it God, but what does that get you? Not much. Does such a declaration provide any insight into mankind and his place in the universe? No. I genuinely doubt most of you folks you have declared as worshipers of matter and energy find that statement useful or interesting.

I guess my question is that if all theists must believe in a being created universe and (by your declaration) all athiests must believe in a non-being created universe, what name applies to that segment of the population who tries hard not to pretend they know something with certainty when they are uncertain, who waits for a high degree of confidence before saying something is so.

Faith is by definition belief in the absence of proof. Attempts to prove doctrine can only corrupt the faithful for those doctrines must remain beyond proof.

If, by your definition, Agnostics and Atheists are just another kind of faith, that's fine. Just give us your name for that group that avoids any act of faith. The faithless? The unfaithful? Just give us the name so that some set of honest moderates without agenda can fall under that banner and preclude any requisite whatsoever.

Response: Such a name is up to you. Whether one agrees or follow it is something else.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 1:58:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:10:33 AM, Beastt wrote:

- THE FATIHAH GUIDE TO APOLOGETIC DEBATE -

1. Make blind assertion.

2. When assertion is thoroughly, comprehensively and irreversibly refuted, repeat step 1.

- The End -

Response: Beastt Most logical rebuttal to an argument he can't refute:

1. Make a strawman argument.

2. Mock the strawman he created.

3. Troll the forum crying, wondering why he's been exposed and refuted.

THE END
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 2:09:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:58:59 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/25/2014 1:10:33 AM, Beastt wrote:

- THE FATIHAH GUIDE TO APOLOGETIC DEBATE -

1. Make blind assertion.

2. When assertion is thoroughly, comprehensively and irreversibly refuted, repeat step 1.

- The End -

Response: Beastt Most logical rebuttal to an argument he can't refute:

1. Make a strawman argument.

2. Mock the strawman he created.

3. Troll the forum crying, wondering why he's been exposed and refuted.

THE END
What strawman? (Learn to support your assertions.)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 2:10:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 2:09:29 AM, Beastt wrote:

What strawman? (Learn to support your assertions.)

Response: The strawmans you make. Learn to keep up with your own flawed arguments.
Oromagi
Posts: 857
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 2:20:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:55:11 AM, Fatihah wrote:

Response: Such a name is up to you. Whether one agrees or follow it is something else.

The point is that if the name were up to the non-faithful, they'd usually go with atheist or agnostic. If you're going to redefine all atheists and agnostics as faithful to a different god, then its up to you find a different label for the non-believers because such people do exist and won't waste much time distinguishing themselves in religious chatrooms.

Better yet, why not simply focus on the perfection of your faith, untouched as it must be by any atheistic claim?
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 2:21:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:51:57 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/25/2014 12:34:07 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Atheism does not claim anything created the universe. By definition, atheism only says that gods to no exist. So the point is irrelevant.

Science and the word of prophets are not equatable. Science is a process based on experiment and scrutiny. Science is observation of the words around us. The words of prophets are simply words. Their authority cannot be proven in anyway.

And atheists don't worship energy or matter anymore than they worship the sky or the sun or any other natural phenomena which you could possibly think of.

Response: Atheists nor scientists themselves perform all the science that they believe. They rely on authority of other scientists. Making them no different then relying on prophets.

Scientific findings are based on experiments conducted. In essence, they are observations about the universe based on repeatable experiments.

Also, you fail to account for people who believe in both these scientific findings of which you speak and God. Really the scientific findings themselves do not really disprove God as a cause of the scientific findings of which you speak.

And atheists don't worship Matter/Energy only because scientists themselves don't teach so. Yet since many believe that Matter/energy is uncreated and originated all creation, that makes it a God. The only difference is they choose not to worship it.

Matter/Energy have no sentience, no will. Calling them God is insanity.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 2:38:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 2:20:42 AM, Oromagi wrote:

The point is that if the name were up to the non-faithful, they'd usually go with atheist or agnostic. If you're going to redefine all atheists and agnostics as faithful to a different god, then its up to you find a different label for the non-believers because such people do exist and won't waste much time distinguishing themselves in religious chatrooms.

Better yet, why not simply focus on the perfection of your faith, untouched as it must be by any atheistic claim?

Response: It is not a case of redefining. For it is atheists and agnostics themselves that are actually redefining things. One can be an atheist and agnostic and accept no belief for how the universe and life came to be. Those who do not are the ones who incorporate faith into their belief. I am simply pointing it out.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/25/2014 2:42:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 2:21:32 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 7/25/2014 1:51:57 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/25/2014 12:34:07 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
Atheism does not claim anything created the universe. By definition, atheism only says that gods to no exist. So the point is irrelevant.

Science and the word of prophets are not equatable. Science is a process based on experiment and scrutiny. Science is observation of the words around us. The words of prophets are simply words. Their authority cannot be proven in anyway.

And atheists don't worship energy or matter anymore than they worship the sky or the sun or any other natural phenomena which you could possibly think of.

Response: Atheists nor scientists themselves perform all the science that they believe. They rely on authority of other scientists. Making them no different then relying on prophets.

Scientific findings are based on experiments conducted. In essence, they are observations about the universe based on repeatable experiments.

Also, you fail to account for people who believe in both these scientific findings of which you speak and God. Really the scientific findings themselves do not really disprove God as a cause of the scientific findings of which you speak.

And atheists don't worship Matter/Energy only because scientists themselves don't teach so. Yet since many believe that Matter/energy is uncreated and originated all creation, that makes it a God. The only difference is they choose not to worship it.

Matter/Energy have no sentience, no will. Calling them God is insanity.

Response: Scientific finding are indeed based on experimentation. Yet not all beliefs by scientists, atheists, and agnostics are related to science.

And Matter/Energy has no sentience. Highlighting the very reason why considering it the basis for creation as absurdity.