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What is an Atheist to do!

Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/1/2010 4:22:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I do not believe in God, I did not choose to not believe in God, my lack of belief in God arises from factors that I have been subjected to and are generally beyond my control. I am the product of genes, socialization, my experiences, the chemical balance of my brain etc etc... to cut a long story short the resulting person does not believe in God.

I am not an atheist because I am full of pride, the existence of God does not reduce my self esteem.
I am not an atheist because I hate God, that makes no sense.

As I am an atheist for reasons external to me what am I to do?

One day someone will answer this, until then I guess I'll keep asking it in different ways!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
mattrodstrom
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3/1/2010 4:36:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
just open yourself to the truth of the scriptures... :)

have an open mind.

lower your standards of truth.

but only for our religion.

those other ones are crazy :)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/1/2010 7:58:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 4:36:45 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
just open yourself to the truth of the scriptures... :)
Says every religion.
have an open mind.
I do.
lower your standards of truth.
And how am i to distinguish one religion from another if i do?
but only for our religion.
Ah, theres the qualifier.
those other ones are crazy :)
Nice to hear.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/1/2010 9:54:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 4:22:42 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I do not believe in God, I did not choose to not believe in God, my lack of belief in God arises from factors that I have been subjected to and are generally beyond my control. I am the product of genes, socialization, my experiences, the chemical balance of my brain etc etc... to cut a long story short the resulting person does not believe in God.

I am not an atheist because I am full of pride, the existence of God does not reduce my self esteem.
I am not an atheist because I hate God, that makes no sense.

As I am an atheist for reasons external to me what am I to do?

One day someone will answer this, until then I guess I'll keep asking it in different ways!

Are you saying that you have been completely determined in your disbelief in God by external factors? How do you know, then, that your belief is rational if you could've thought no other way?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
mattrodstrom
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3/1/2010 10:07:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 9:54:21 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

Are you saying that you have been completely determined in your disbelief in God by external factors?

How do you know, then, that your belief is rational if you could've thought no other way?
(that is if thinking that way is your nature I suppose)

lol, Sounds like my ultimate empiricism (in regard to reason) had an effect on you :)

But...
If you care to act you ought to act upon how things seem, so long as they seem that way.

I don't think he said his not believing in god is final, it's just the case right now b/c it does not seem as though there is a god.

That is; there's nothing that suggests God's existence.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/1/2010 10:09:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 9:54:21 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/1/2010 4:22:42 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I do not believe in God, I did not choose to not believe in God, my lack of belief in God arises from factors that I have been subjected to and are generally beyond my control. I am the product of genes, socialization, my experiences, the chemical balance of my brain etc etc... to cut a long story short the resulting person does not believe in God.

I am not an atheist because I am full of pride, the existence of God does not reduce my self esteem.
I am not an atheist because I hate God, that makes no sense.

As I am an atheist for reasons external to me what am I to do?

One day someone will answer this, until then I guess I'll keep asking it in different ways!

Are you saying that you have been completely determined in your disbelief in God by external factors? How do you know, then, that your belief is rational if you could've thought no other way?

That is an interesting tangent, but as it's so unlikely I will get a proper answer as it is, I won't pursue it!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
popculturepooka
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3/1/2010 10:25:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 10:07:23 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
(that is if thinking that way is your nature I suppose)

lol, Sounds like my ultimate empiricism (in regard to reason) had an effect on you :)

But...
If you care to act you ought to act upon how things seem, so long as they seem that way.

I don't think he said his not believing in god is final, it's just the case right now b/c it does not seem as though there is a god.

That is; there's nothing that suggests God's existence.

Not really - I'm not a determinist nor an empiricist like you - I'm operating on his assumptions. Let me put it this way: if you are completely determined to think how you think you essentially have no reason to believe you have any rational beliefs.

That's because rationality is a ground and consequent relationship not a cause and effect relationship. A ground and consequent relationship if you see that A = B and B = C you see that these are ground for believing the consequent, A = C. Logical relationships have nothing to do with cause and effect. A cause and effect relationship would be if you put a sugar cube in water and at certain temperature it will dissolve.

As for what you should do, Cerebral? Give up determinism. Or at the very least give up your hard determinism. :)
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
mattrodstrom
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3/1/2010 10:32:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 10:25:55 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

Not really - I'm not a determinist nor an empiricist like you - I'm operating on his assumptions. Let me put it this way

if you are completely determined to think how you think you essentially have no reason to believe you have any rational beliefs.

Let's say he Naturally thinks that way, as "determined" makes it sound willful, and that's not what he was talkin about.

Rational beliefs need not be unnatural. In fact I'd say Reason appears to be a natural quality of how people think, and Rational beliefs are so because they're reasonable.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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3/1/2010 10:34:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The truth of your premise is wholly dependent upon you begging the question. It is true that in a fatalistic system where all our choices unilaterally rely upon a prior state of affairs and the chemical processes in our brains that you have no real say in the matter. So any Christian operating from a similar framework (reformed) would simply agree with you. Who cares? What does it prove? In fact, there are no good reasons for believing that our cognitive faculties even produce true beliefs in a material atheistic paradigm - given that we are both determined and evolved. But, if you hadn't already begged the question, then most other Christian's could respond by saying that your disbelief is a product of your choices that you are ultimately responsible for.

Let me give you an example of what you have done. Since God exists, why are there so many people that still refuse to believe in him?

Do you see what question begging does? It makes the question worthless and of no intellectual merit.
mattrodstrom
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3/1/2010 10:39:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 10:34:33 AM, InquireTruth wrote:
your disbelief is a product of your choices that you are ultimately responsible for.

so you choose what you believe?

You aren't convinced of it's truth? you choose what's true?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
InquireTruth
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3/1/2010 10:45:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
My conviction is a product of my choices. Choices for which I am ultimately responsible for. You are of course changing the subject, as both words are meaningless in a deterministic system.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/1/2010 11:08:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 10:45:52 AM, InquireTruth wrote:
My conviction is a product of my choices. Choices for which I am ultimately responsible for. You are of course changing the subject, as both words are meaningless in a deterministic system.

You believe that 2+2 = 4, (presumably anyway), you did not choose to believe that, you believe that because the logical system of mathematics appears to give that answer.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/1/2010 12:41:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
what is your veiw on causality. Do you find anything is truly a result of your unique choices, or that all your choices are truly the enivetable result of something else, and therefore not truely responsible for any choice, because because the cause of the choices came from a system you are only a cog in?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
KafkianRoach
Posts: 20
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3/1/2010 2:19:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think even Theism has deterministic tendencies, from Calvinism had that people were "elect" and "Damned", of which were fixed positions. There's even the classical theological problem with God's Omniscient abilities and free-will.

And looking at the Garden of Eden to the fall of man, .. I'm not entirely convinced Adam and Eve had free-will, until they ate the apple which gave them a sense of morality to be wise against temptation.

But to answer t orignal question, I'd say the Atheist, is going to do, whatever he or she does, perhaps as a hobby, an occupation, or .. well, given the term fits a wide range of people and there is no typical atheist , it's quite amusing to subscribe them to any activity. (I know I took the literal intrepretation, but wanted to stress, that at least without religion, we can do what "we want/were determined to" do on sunday mornings. *wink* )
DATCMOTO
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3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 4:22:42 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I do not believe in God, I did not choose to not believe in God, my lack of belief in God arises from factors that I have been subjected to and are generally beyond my control. I am the product of genes, socialization, my experiences, the chemical balance of my brain etc etc... to cut a long story short the resulting person does not believe in God.

I am not an atheist because I am full of pride, the existence of God does not reduce my self esteem.
I am not an atheist because I hate God, that makes no sense.

As I am an atheist for reasons external to me what am I to do?

One day someone will answer this, until then I guess I'll keep asking it in different ways!

Cry out to the risen Christ!
The Cross.. the Cross.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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3/2/2010 9:04:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/1/2010 11:08:24 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/1/2010 10:45:52 AM, InquireTruth wrote:
My conviction is a product of my choices. Choices for which I am ultimately responsible for. You are of course changing the subject, as both words are meaningless in a deterministic system.

You believe that 2+2 = 4, (presumably anyway), you did not choose to believe that, you believe that because the logical system of mathematics appears to give that answer.

There are few things that are not ultimately byproducts of my choices (like the language I speak). I am rationally bound to the rules of mathematics because I chose not to be willfully ignorant of them. Moreover, there are a great number of beliefs that are not at all influenced by evidence. Furthermore, only by a presuppositional antisupernaturalism could I deny the internal witness of the Holy Spirit. I have seen too many atheists and Christians alike, in the face of counterarguments far too powerful to deny, willfully deny reason itself. This, at least to me, is evidence that the greatest hindrance to belief and disbelief alike are pride and stubbornness. Since you chose to beg the question in your initial post I can only assume that you practice a form of epistemic imperialism that presupposes supernaturalism out of existence before even engaging its arguments.
mattrodstrom
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3/2/2010 9:51:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
as both words are meaningless in a deterministic system.

Not convinced. Convinced would be necessarily so.

b/c of your nature.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/1/2010 4:22:42 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I do not believe in God, I did not choose to not believe in God, my lack of belief in God arises from factors that I have been subjected to and are generally beyond my control. I am the product of genes, socialization, my experiences, the chemical balance of my brain etc etc... to cut a long story short the resulting person does not believe in God.

I am not an atheist because I am full of pride, the existence of God does not reduce my self esteem.
I am not an atheist because I hate God, that makes no sense.

As I am an atheist for reasons external to me what am I to do?

One day someone will answer this, until then I guess I'll keep asking it in different ways!

Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/2/2010 10:56:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/1/2010 4:22:42 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I do not believe in God, I did not choose to not believe in God, my lack of belief in God arises from factors that I have been subjected to and are generally beyond my control. I am the product of genes, socialization, my experiences, the chemical balance of my brain etc etc... to cut a long story short the resulting person does not believe in God.

I am not an atheist because I am full of pride, the existence of God does not reduce my self esteem.
I am not an atheist because I hate God, that makes no sense.

As I am an atheist for reasons external to me what am I to do?

One day someone will answer this, until then I guess I'll keep asking it in different ways!

Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

well dont do it like your taling to an imaginary freind, but in the same way you would talk to a real being indepentant of your thoughts. Even if you dont belive there is a God, I think that is enough, he will take care of the rest. No telling how long it would take but he will.

So in a sense yes, thats all there is to it. Just dont do it as a joke.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/2/2010 3:47:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:56:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/1/2010 4:22:42 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I do not believe in God, I did not choose to not believe in God, my lack of belief in God arises from factors that I have been subjected to and are generally beyond my control. I am the product of genes, socialization, my experiences, the chemical balance of my brain etc etc... to cut a long story short the resulting person does not believe in God.

I am not an atheist because I am full of pride, the existence of God does not reduce my self esteem.
I am not an atheist because I hate God, that makes no sense.

As I am an atheist for reasons external to me what am I to do?

One day someone will answer this, until then I guess I'll keep asking it in different ways!

Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

well dont do it like your taling to an imaginary freind, but in the same way you would talk to a real being indepentant of your thoughts. Even if you dont belive there is a God, I think that is enough, he will take care of the rest. No telling how long it would take but he will.

So in a sense yes, thats all there is to it. Just dont do it as a joke.

And when nothing happens... what do I do then?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/2/2010 4:11:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 3:47:11 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:56:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

well dont do it like your taling to an imaginary freind, but in the same way you would talk to a real being indepentant of your thoughts. Even if you dont belive there is a God, I think that is enough, he will take care of the rest. No telling how long it would take but he will.

So in a sense yes, thats all there is to it. Just dont do it as a joke.

And when nothing happens... what do I do then?

after what period of time do you determine nothing happens? cause I got to tell you there is no set time for expecting something to happen. the Lord could make you wait a few years before something happens. he might not make you wait at all. whenever he deemes most apropriate.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/3/2010 4:12:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 4:11:24 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:47:11 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:56:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

well dont do it like your taling to an imaginary freind, but in the same way you would talk to a real being indepentant of your thoughts. Even if you dont belive there is a God, I think that is enough, he will take care of the rest. No telling how long it would take but he will.

So in a sense yes, thats all there is to it. Just dont do it as a joke.

And when nothing happens... what do I do then?

after what period of time do you determine nothing happens? cause I got to tell you there is no set time for expecting something to happen. the Lord could make you wait a few years before something happens. he might not make you wait at all. whenever he deemes most apropriate.

Or he could just directly communicate with an atheist smoking a joint in a field.

It's not a very believable or fair system!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/3/2010 4:32:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/1/2010 4:22:42 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I do not believe in God, I did not choose to not believe in God, my lack of belief in God arises from factors that I have been subjected to and are generally beyond my control. I am the product of genes, socialization, my experiences, the chemical balance of my brain etc etc... to cut a long story short the resulting person does not believe in God.

I am not an atheist because I am full of pride, the existence of God does not reduce my self esteem.
I am not an atheist because I hate God, that makes no sense.

As I am an atheist for reasons external to me what am I to do?

One day someone will answer this, until then I guess I'll keep asking it in different ways!

Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

If you are genuine, yes.
The Cross.. the Cross.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/3/2010 4:53:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 4:32:17 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

Is that all there is to it?

If you are genuine, yes.

I heartily disagree.

I was quite a genuine christian you might say. I believed in Jesus, God and the like, and even though I went to a catholic church I didn't care for the catholicism compared to caring about Jesus :)

One might say I cried out/prayed to 'God' quite regularly, and tried to live my life according to how I should (that is according to how Jesus would want you to). After all, he did suffer so much so that I could have the chance to be saved I felt as though it would be ridiculous of me to not live as I should.

Then, with first coming to realize Catholicism wasn't really necessarily the best approach, and then thinking about the existence of other religions, and what differentiated mine from them, I began to wonder how one could profess to be so assured of their religion, what was it that made what I said I believe to be true??

So I prayed and thought a lot on the matter... had priests tell me that questioning your faith strengthened it and whatnot... and eventually came to the realization that I wasn't getting anywhere and couldn't say why I ought to believe that Jesus christ was the son of god, and real soon after that came to the realization that I really didn't have any reason to believe in God.

I was sincere in my search for God. I didn't get any reason to believe. And I still don't.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/3/2010 8:05:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 4:53:37 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I was quite a genuine christian you might say. I believed in Jesus, God and the like, and even though I went to a catholic church I didn't care for the catholicism compared to caring about Jesus :)

One might say I cried out/prayed to 'God' quite regularly, and tried to live my life according to how I should (that is according to how Jesus would want you to). After all, he did suffer so much so that I could have the chance to be saved I felt as though it would be ridiculous of me to not live as I should.

Then, with first coming to realize Catholicism wasn't really necessarily the best approach, and then thinking about the existence of other religions, and what differentiated mine from them, I began to wonder how one could profess to be so assured of their religion, what was it that made what I said I believe to be true??

Befor you started thinking about other religions, In the time you say you belived, How would you describe the feeling that made you belive in Jesus?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/3/2010 8:12:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 4:12:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:11:24 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:47:11 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:56:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

well dont do it like your taling to an imaginary freind, but in the same way you would talk to a real being indepentant of your thoughts. Even if you dont belive there is a God, I think that is enough, he will take care of the rest. No telling how long it would take but he will.

So in a sense yes, thats all there is to it. Just dont do it as a joke.

And when nothing happens... what do I do then?

after what period of time do you determine nothing happens? cause I got to tell you there is no set time for expecting something to happen. the Lord could make you wait a few years before something happens. he might not make you wait at all. whenever he deemes most apropriate.

Or he could just directly communicate with an atheist smoking a joint in a field.

It's not a very believable or fair system!

They are a near infinite number of things he could do. but there no way to predict what or more importantly when specificly. so just chill and wait is all that you can do.

As far as the system not being fair, as tkbok has pointed out to me recently, as long as two things are different, they can be called unfair. Rather a worthless observation finding out if something is 'fair'
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/3/2010 11:14:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 8:12:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/3/2010 4:12:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:11:24 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:47:11 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:56:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

well dont do it like your taling to an imaginary freind, but in the same way you would talk to a real being indepentant of your thoughts. Even if you dont belive there is a God, I think that is enough, he will take care of the rest. No telling how long it would take but he will.

So in a sense yes, thats all there is to it. Just dont do it as a joke.

And when nothing happens... what do I do then?

after what period of time do you determine nothing happens? cause I got to tell you there is no set time for expecting something to happen. the Lord could make you wait a few years before something happens. he might not make you wait at all. whenever he deemes most apropriate.

Or he could just directly communicate with an atheist smoking a joint in a field.

It's not a very believable or fair system!

They are a near infinite number of things he could do. but there no way to predict what or more importantly when specificly. so just chill and wait is all that you can do.

As far as the system not being fair, as tkbok has pointed out to me recently, as long as two things are different, they can be called unfair. Rather a worthless observation finding out if something is 'fair'

You are preaching of a capricious creator that will save others and consign to hell purely on a whim. The observation that this is unfair is entirely worthy, because from this we can derive only a few conclusions.
a) Your God is insanely evil, this is inconsistent with his qualities as supreme being therefore he does not exist.
b) Your God is insanely evil, this is inconsistent with his qualities as supreme being therefore he is unworthy of worship.
c) You have totally mistaken the nature of God.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/3/2010 11:59:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 11:14:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/3/2010 8:12:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/3/2010 4:12:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:11:24 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:47:11 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:56:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

well dont do it like your taling to an imaginary freind, but in the same way you would talk to a real being indepentant of your thoughts. Even if you dont belive there is a God, I think that is enough, he will take care of the rest. No telling how long it would take but he will.

So in a sense yes, thats all there is to it. Just dont do it as a joke.

And when nothing happens... what do I do then?

after what period of time do you determine nothing happens? cause I got to tell you there is no set time for expecting something to happen. the Lord could make you wait a few years before something happens. he might not make you wait at all. whenever he deemes most apropriate.

Or he could just directly communicate with an atheist smoking a joint in a field.

It's not a very believable or fair system!

They are a near infinite number of things he could do. but there no way to predict what or more importantly when specificly. so just chill and wait is all that you can do.

As far as the system not being fair, as tkbok has pointed out to me recently, as long as two things are different, they can be called unfair. Rather a worthless observation finding out if something is 'fair'

You are preaching of a capricious creator....
The fact that we are not equiped enough to predict exactly how a being like God would respond to our demands, request, ect. does not make him impulsive.
....that will save others and consign to hell purely on a whim.
dont know where your getting this from what I said.
The observation that this is unfair is entirely worthy, because from this we can derive only a few conclusions.
a) Your God is insanely evil, this is inconsistent with his qualities as supreme being therefore he does not exist.
I do agree with you that a creating god cannot be evil so if he was then he's not real.
b) Your God is insanely evil, this is inconsistent with his qualities as supreme being therefore he is unworthy of worship.
Do you only love people who are worthy of it? this is the reason so many marrages fall apart today. those that are not worthy of love should be loved by us the most. And as we show them how we love they cannot help but learn to love like us by example. So even provided the premise that God is evil your reasoning is flawed.
c) You have totally mistaken the nature of God.
I have mistaken the nature of the divine in respects to it's fairness because what I came up with is not the same as the one you have pictured in you head? Please walk me through this.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/4/2010 2:48:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 11:59:46 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/3/2010 11:14:19 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/3/2010 8:12:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/3/2010 4:12:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:11:24 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:47:11 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:56:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:20:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:02:05 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Cry out to the risen Christ!

Is that all there is to it?

well dont do it like your taling to an imaginary freind, but in the same way you would talk to a real being indepentant of your thoughts. Even if you dont belive there is a God, I think that is enough, he will take care of the rest. No telling how long it would take but he will.

So in a sense yes, thats all there is to it. Just dont do it as a joke.

And when nothing happens... what do I do then?

after what period of time do you determine nothing happens? cause I got to tell you there is no set time for expecting something to happen. the Lord could make you wait a few years before something happens. he might not make you wait at all. whenever he deemes most apropriate.

Or he could just directly communicate with an atheist smoking a joint in a field.

It's not a very believable or fair system!

They are a near infinite number of things he could do. but there no way to predict what or more importantly when specificly. so just chill and wait is all that you can do.

As far as the system not being fair, as tkbok has pointed out to me recently, as long as two things are different, they can be called unfair. Rather a worthless observation finding out if something is 'fair'

You are preaching of a capricious creator....
The fact that we are not equiped enough to predict exactly how a being like God would respond to our demands, request, ect. does not make him impulsive.
....that will save others and consign to hell purely on a whim.
dont know where your getting this from what I said.
The observation that this is unfair is entirely worthy, because from this we can derive only a few conclusions.
a) Your God is insanely evil, this is inconsistent with his qualities as supreme being therefore he does not exist.
I do agree with you that a creating god cannot be evil so if he was then he's not real.

Therefore your God does not exist.

b) Your God is insanely evil, this is inconsistent with his qualities as supreme being therefore he is unworthy of worship.
Do you only love people who are worthy of it? this is the reason so many marrages fall apart today. those that are not worthy of love should be loved by us the most. And as we show them how we love they cannot help but learn to love like us by example. So even provided the premise that God is evil your reasoning is flawed.

That is a bizarre non-sequiter!

c) You have totally mistaken the nature of God.
I have mistaken the nature of the divine in respects to it's fairness because what I came up with is not the same as the one you have pictured in you head? Please walk me through this.

No, by preaching a God that is both evil and capricious you can not also preach a God that is also good, rational, consistent and worthy of worship.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/4/2010 6:14:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 8:05:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 3/3/2010 4:53:37 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I was quite a genuine christian you might say. I believed in Jesus, God and the like, and even though I went to a catholic church I didn't care for the catholicism compared to caring about Jesus :)

One might say I cried out/prayed to 'God' quite regularly, and tried to live my life according to how I should (that is according to how Jesus would want you to). After all, he did suffer so much so that I could have the chance to be saved I felt as though it would be ridiculous of me to not live as I should.

Then, with first coming to realize Catholicism wasn't really necessarily the best approach, and then thinking about the existence of other religions, and what differentiated mine from them, I began to wonder how one could profess to be so assured of their religion, what was it that made what I said I believe to be true??

Befor you started thinking about other religions, In the time you say you belived, How would you describe the feeling that made you belive in Jesus?

Often in church I guess you could say elated. Though generally very sad when I thought about Jesus..

The Feelings didn't make me believe in Jesus, I believed because I thought that's what happened.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."