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Homosexuality a Sin?

ChristianPunk
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7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?
intellectuallyprimitive
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7/25/2014 2:17:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?

Proceeding are three factors to consider; comfortability, indoctrination, and the possibility of being homosexual (denial), thusly the individual may permeate vitriolic detestation towards homosexuals. The latter is ubiquitous amongst most religious organizations. Moreover, conformability and denial coincide with one another. The other two are applicable as well, albeit most often a christian who finds homosexuality as a contemptuous act (sin) were indoctrinated to do so.

Various forms of research and understanding human sexuality would benefit the many, however relentless and pious indoctrination prevents or dissuades many. Upon further research one can discover that human sexuality is a result of inherent factors such as genetic and hormonal. Environmental influences or parenting relating specifically to the nurture of an individual do not alter the INNATE, deliberate emphasis employed, factors that define an individuals sexuality.

I am a proponent of secularism thereby advancing the notion of the separation of church and state. Which regulates the criteria of marriage? Should two individuals be removed of their option of marriage because a religious sanction constitutes otherwise? The argument of "traditional" marriage is profoundly redundant because of the diversification most countries contain. A society should not adhere to a traditional value if it limits individuals in a fashion that poses no harm.
Kerfluffer
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7/25/2014 7:16:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Bible clearly is against homosexuality. Any other idea is unbiblical, plain and simple. This is what it comes down to:

1) Marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman.
2) Any sexual act outside of marriage is a sin.

A marriage approved by God is a privilege, not a right. You can make the state recognise gay marriage. If you are a bigot, you can even force churches to perform gay marriage ceremonies. However, you will never be able to force God to accept it.

That being said, shunning homosexuals is very unchristian. That old, tired clich" of "hate the sin, love the sinner" does not seem to work, because aiming to hate something only brings more hate that is eventually extended towards the person. Rather, it should be more like... Hate the sin because we love the sinner.
ChristianPunk
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7/25/2014 7:28:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 7:16:11 PM, Kerfluffer wrote:
The Bible clearly is against homosexuality. Any other idea is unbiblical, plain and simple. This is what it comes down to:

1) Marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman.
2) Any sexual act outside of marriage is a sin.

A marriage approved by God is a privilege, not a right. You can make the state recognise gay marriage. If you are a bigot, you can even force churches to perform gay marriage ceremonies. However, you will never be able to force God to accept it.

That being said, shunning homosexuals is very unchristian. That old, tired clich" of "hate the sin, love the sinner" does not seem to work, because aiming to hate something only brings more hate that is eventually extended towards the person. Rather, it should be more like... Hate the sin because we love the sinner.

And gay marriage is another gift and privilege from god. He never once condemns gay sex nor does he define the definition of marriage.

Bigots are the ones who refuse to acknowledge a human being rights because of who they are. Bigots were also racists who used the bible to promote segregation and bigots were also sexists who used the bible to deny female rights. This is just the same old trick and God will be by the righteous in promoting the equality of the hetero and homosexual community.

I agree with that phrase of hate the sin, but love the sinner (even though it was a phrase founded by famous Hindu, Gandhi) but there is a problem with that phrase in homosexuality. Homosexuality is something that homosexuals are born with just like heterosexuals are born with their heterosexual orientation.

Have you ever researched the genetics, biology or anything about what it means to be a homosexual?
Kerfluffer
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7/25/2014 7:56:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Issues raised in your original post:

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.
Then you're missing the point. Paul says homosexuality can be a result of idolatry, referring to acts performed during idol worship. But it clearly still condemns both; The verse in Romans 1 basically says: "Look how wrong idol worship is! It even CAUSES homosexuality!".

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.
As a matter of fact I AM Greek and I can know when people pretty much make up things about Greek words used in the New Testament; such as the case of the word arsenokoitai, which pro-gay Christians like to dodge around by twisting its meaning and the context in which it is presented.

Issues raised in your response to my previous post:
And gay marriage is another gift and privilege from god.
You pretty much made this up.
He never once condemns gay sex nor does he define the definition of marriage.
Yes, He does.

Have you ever researched the genetics, biology or anything about what it means to be a homosexual?
No, because I don't need to. It doesn't matter if people are genetically gay. All people are born with an inclination to sin. Our nature is in direct conflict to God, gay or not. Sin is not what we do, it's what we are.

Although using this here taking it out of context, you can see how it fits:
Matthew 24b (ESV): "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."
ChristianPunk
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7/25/2014 8:19:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 7:56:06 PM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Issues raised in your original post:

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.
Then you're missing the point. Paul says homosexuality can be a result of idolatry, referring to acts performed during idol worship. But it clearly still condemns both; The verse in Romans 1 basically says: "Look how wrong idol worship is! It even CAUSES homosexuality!".

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.
As a matter of fact I AM Greek and I can know when people pretty much make up things about Greek words used in the New Testament; such as the case of the word arsenokoitai, which pro-gay Christians like to dodge around by twisting its meaning and the context in which it is presented.

Issues raised in your response to my previous post:
And gay marriage is another gift and privilege from god.
You pretty much made this up.
He never once condemns gay sex nor does he define the definition of marriage.
Yes, He does.

Have you ever researched the genetics, biology or anything about what it means to be a homosexual?
No, because I don't need to. It doesn't matter if people are genetically gay. All people are born with an inclination to sin. Our nature is in direct conflict to God, gay or not. Sin is not what we do, it's what we are.

Although using this here taking it out of context, you can see how it fits:
Matthew 24b (ESV): "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Romans does not say idol worshipping causes homosexuality. Orgies were used to worship paegan gods at this time. The orgies involved hetero then homo switching sexual orgies. But if your thinking about the men and women wanting unnatural and shameful lusts, here are said lusts. Cutting or whipping the flesh from ones back, circumcising the men, possible beastiality, etc. They even mixed in certain herbs with liquids to perform enemas that made them high. They believed this would grant them the ability to see into the future.

Then tell me what does Arsenokoitai and Malakoi mean? Not the modern definition but the definition of the past because Malakoi was a slang word. It's not like White or Caucasian, it basically is in the same league as honkey and cracka.

The reason why I say god approves and doesn't condemn them, is why I am waiting for you to tell me and offer me scripture where it says "Thou Shall Not Be A Homosexual" (which no word for this existed back then.)

Then tell me what a homosexual is? Because by the definition of sexual orientation, if sex was somehow gone from the world and only romance and commitment to love was involved in marriage and dating, then there would still be heterosexual and homosexual people.
Kerfluffer
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7/26/2014 11:25:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Romans does not say idol worshipping causes homosexuality. Orgies were used to worship paegan gods at this time. The orgies involved hetero then homo switching sexual orgies.
Okay, doesn't cause homosexuality; what I meant is that it causes people to participate in homosexual acts.
But if your thinking about the men and women wanting unnatural and shameful lusts, here are said lusts. Cutting or whipping the flesh from ones back, circumcising the men, possible beastiality, etc.
Romans 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Paul is very clearly mentioning having sex with men AS OPPOSED to having sex with women. How can you not see it? There is no mention of cutting or whipping flesh, or anything of the sorts, but rather a contrast between heterosexual and homosexual relations. Whatever they did with that passion is a whole different story, and it's not even mentioned here.
If I was to translate this I would have translated it as "they were turned on by appetites for one another". This is literally what it says.
Then tell me what does Arsenokoitai and Malakoi mean? Not the modern definition but the definition of the past because Malakoi was a slang word.
First, lets go over "Malakoi". It literally means "soft", male plural form. That is exactly what it meant back then, too. As a slang word, saying it meant anything with absolute certainty is speculation. But, given the context, what do YOU think it meant?
I would say that it means "timid", but the verse couldn't be talking about that. I would say it probably means effeminate men.

But take a look at arsenokoitai. It literally means men lying with men. This is what it means, and this is what it meant back then. It might be a word that Paul made up, but the meaning of it is clear as day, based on they etymology of it, which is also supported by the context. This is what pro-gay Christians say: "Paul said that mensleepingwithmen are sinful, but since that word doesn't show up anywhere else, the meaning is ambiguous and mensleepingwithmen might not actually be talking about men sleeping with men". That makes zero sense.

The reason why I say god approves and doesn't condemn them, is why I am waiting for you to tell me and offer me scripture where it says "Thou Shall Not Be A Homosexual" (which no word for this existed back then.)
If no word for it existed and it is in the Bible, then either the Bible should describe it indirectly or make up a new word for it, correct? Then what do you think "males having passion for one another" and "men lying with men" (arsenokoitai) are used for?

People have twisted scriptures in the past. But, just because people have been wrong about Scriptures before, it doesn't mean they're wrong again. In fact, it would seem that today it's the pro gay activists who distort the scriptures to make them mean whatever they want them to mean.
ChristianPunk
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7/26/2014 11:52:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 11:25:45 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Romans does not say idol worshipping causes homosexuality. Orgies were used to worship paegan gods at this time. The orgies involved hetero then homo switching sexual orgies.
Okay, doesn't cause homosexuality; what I meant is that it causes people to participate in homosexual acts.
But if your thinking about the men and women wanting unnatural and shameful lusts, here are said lusts. Cutting or whipping the flesh from ones back, circumcising the men, possible beastiality, etc.
Romans 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Paul is very clearly mentioning having sex with men AS OPPOSED to having sex with women. How can you not see it? There is no mention of cutting or whipping flesh, or anything of the sorts, but rather a contrast between heterosexual and homosexual relations. Whatever they did with that passion is a whole different story, and it's not even mentioned here.
If I was to translate this I would have translated it as "they were turned on by appetites for one another". This is literally what it says.
Then tell me what does Arsenokoitai and Malakoi mean? Not the modern definition but the definition of the past because Malakoi was a slang word.
First, lets go over "Malakoi". It literally means "soft", male plural form. That is exactly what it meant back then, too. As a slang word, saying it meant anything with absolute certainty is speculation. But, given the context, what do YOU think it meant?
I would say that it means "timid", but the verse couldn't be talking about that. I would say it probably means effeminate men.

But take a look at arsenokoitai. It literally means men lying with men. This is what it means, and this is what it meant back then. It might be a word that Paul made up, but the meaning of it is clear as day, based on they etymology of it, which is also supported by the context. This is what pro-gay Christians say: "Paul said that mensleepingwithmen are sinful, but since that word doesn't show up anywhere else, the meaning is ambiguous and mensleepingwithmen might not actually be talking about men sleeping with men". That makes zero sense.

The reason why I say god approves and doesn't condemn them, is why I am waiting for you to tell me and offer me scripture where it says "Thou Shall Not Be A Homosexual" (which no word for this existed back then.)
If no word for it existed and it is in the Bible, then either the Bible should describe it indirectly or make up a new word for it, correct? Then what do you think "males having passion for one another" and "men lying with men" (arsenokoitai) are used for?

People have twisted scriptures in the past. But, just because people have been wrong about Scriptures before, it doesn't mean they're wrong again. In fact, it would seem that today it's the pro gay activists who distort the scriptures to make them mean whatever they want them to mean.

You obviously are ignoring Shameful acts and Dishonorable passions. The acts I mentioned earlier where the said shameful and dishonorable acts. It doesn't say it in the scripture, but would it kill you to read a history book or read some lectures by historians or scholars?

The verse uses Malokoi as soft. And what makes you think it was describing effeminate men? Malokoi was not saying Malokoi (whatever greek or Hebrew word for male). It meant both genders of Malokoi. So men and women who were Malokoi. However, if you read the bible, Malokoi is used throughout to describe some people with Malokoi clothes. These people were those obsessed with their appearance, somewhat treating themselves as idols.

Arsenokoites was a word that is partially used in Leviticus. Arseno meaning man and Koites meaning bed, but Leviticus was talking about the shrine temple sex of reproduction. If somebody had sex with a woman and ejaculated outside of her, God considered this the same sin as same sex sex and masturbation in that city, time and culture. The penalty for all three at that time was death on the spot by God. Philo, a jewish philosopher who lived during the time of Jesus explained that Leviticus is talking about male worshippers having anal sex with men and women who were priests of the fertitlity goddess.

Arsenokoites translates to "Abusers of themselves with mankind." Mankind also meant humankind since man dominated most things such as though God has no physical form, he is considered a He. Abusers of themselves with mankind is not mentioning gays. It's referring those who choose to abuse themselves by cutting, beating oneself, or any form of self abuse among society.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe David and Johnathan are in hell, burning in a lake of fire?
annanicole
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7/26/2014 12:35:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 11:25:45 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Romans does not say idol worshipping causes homosexuality. Orgies were used to worship paegan gods at this time. The orgies involved hetero then homo switching sexual orgies.
Okay, doesn't cause homosexuality; what I meant is that it causes people to participate in homosexual acts.
But if your thinking about the men and women wanting unnatural and shameful lusts, here are said lusts. Cutting or whipping the flesh from ones back, circumcising the men, possible beastiality, etc.
Romans 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Paul is very clearly mentioning having sex with men AS OPPOSED to having sex with women. How can you not see it? There is no mention of cutting or whipping flesh, or anything of the sorts, but rather a contrast between heterosexual and homosexual relations. Whatever they did with that passion is a whole different story, and it's not even mentioned here.
If I was to translate this I would have translated it as "they were turned on by appetites for one another". This is literally what it says.
Then tell me what does Arsenokoitai and Malakoi mean? Not the modern definition but the definition of the past because Malakoi was a slang word.
First, lets go over "Malakoi". It literally means "soft", male plural form. That is exactly what it meant back then, too. As a slang word, saying it meant anything with absolute certainty is speculation. But, given the context, what do YOU think it meant?
I would say that it means "timid", but the verse couldn't be talking about that. I would say it probably means effeminate men.

But take a look at arsenokoitai. It literally means men lying with men. This is what it means, and this is what it meant back then. It might be a word that Paul made up, but the meaning of it is clear as day, based on they etymology of it, which is also supported by the context. This is what pro-gay Christians say: "Paul said that mensleepingwithmen are sinful, but since that word doesn't show up anywhere else, the meaning is ambiguous and mensleepingwithmen might not actually be talking about men sleeping with men". That makes zero sense.

The reason why I say god approves and doesn't condemn them, is why I am waiting for you to tell me and offer me scripture where it says "Thou Shall Not Be A Homosexual" (which no word for this existed back then.)
If no word for it existed and it is in the Bible, then either the Bible should describe it indirectly or make up a new word for it, correct? Then what do you think "males having passion for one another" and "men lying with men" (arsenokoitai) are used for?

People have twisted scriptures in the past. But, just because people have been wrong about Scriptures before, it doesn't mean they're wrong again. In fact, it would seem that today it's the pro gay activists who distort the scriptures to make them mean whatever they want them to mean.

The problem, as you will find out, is that the dude has decided that he wants homosexuals to be able to marry and receive ALL the benefits (whether public, private, governmental, or whatever) that have traditionally been available to traditionally-married couples. If the government or insurance companies or private institutions didn't calculate such a scheme into their plans, that's too bad: force them to pay off. And if they don't, then THEY are selfish!

If you could produce plain NT verses that say, "Homosexual activity is a sin" (which you can, by inference), he'll find a way to deny it. It's a classic example of "the wish is the father of the thought." The reason is that he wants legalized homosexual marriage. He's decided that it's ok. And it really doesn't matter much at that point what the Bible or anyone else says.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Kerfluffer
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7/26/2014 12:56:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You obviously are ignoring Shameful acts and Dishonorable passions. The acts I mentioned earlier where the said shameful and dishonorable acts. It doesn't say it in the scripture, but would it kill you to read a history book or read some lectures by historians or scholars?
Shameful acts and dishonorable passions also include homosexuality. And you pretty much ignore the rest of the passage when it mentions same-sex attraction as opposed to attractions of the opposite gender, making it very obvious that it's talking about homosexuality. That's a dead giveaway.

The verse uses Malokoi as soft. And what makes you think it was describing effeminate men?
Because that's how language works. When you attribute a descriptive adjective to someone, it usually transcends to mean something about his character when this adjective is not directly describing his appearance. Calling someone "soft" makes him timid, or mild-mannered (in a negative light); in this context, probably an effeminate man. Likewise, calling someone "hard" in Greek makes that person "harsh" or "merciless". You wouldn't call someone "soft" because he wears "soft" clothes. That's kind of a stretch. But even if it did mean that, homosexuality is still condemned elsewhere.
Malokoi was not saying Malokoi (whatever greek or Hebrew word for male). It meant both genders of Malokoi.
Not necessarily, it's ambiguous. It's plural male, and it can mean both genders.

Arsenokoites was a word that is partially used in Leviticus. [...] Philo, a jewish philosopher who lived during the time of Jesus explained that Leviticus is talking about male worshippers having anal sex with men and women who were priests of the fertitlity goddess.
And how is this changing anything? Consider this sentence:
"The men having sex with men in the house ate cake".
This is like saying that every time I say "men having sex with men" I'm only referring homosexual men in THAT HOUSE ONLY. If I call anyone gay, it must mean that this person had entered said house at sometime in his life, because the only time that phrase was used it was in reference to dwellers of that specific house.

Arsenokoites translates to "Abusers of themselves with mankind."
No, it does not. The "arseno" part does NOT mean man or mankind, but "male". The "male" part is very, very clear. Males who sleep with males. Why do you still insist? Oh, I see, because pro-gay "scholars" say the meaning is not certain.
It's referring those who choose to abuse themselves by cutting, beating oneself, or any form of self abuse among society.
You are making this up. Or, rather, you are only repeating what other people have made up. Whether or not it's referring to people who were as kinky as you say they were has no effect whatsoever. The shame was not only in their kinkiness, but also in the fact they were committing homosexual acts. End of story.

It's like saying that "a thief committed an atrocity by entering into a house and killed the owner before stealing his goods". Killing the owner was clearly wrong, but so was stealing. You were told that "the thief was atrocious for killing a person" and you go "AHA! Clearly, that means stealing would have been okay if not for the killing!" That's quite a mental jump to make.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe David and Johnathan are in hell, burning in a lake of fire?
I'm not even going to touch whether or not David and Jonathan are gay, and honestly, you should stop trying to force the sexualization of model male friendships in the Bible. But condemning something as a sin does not equate in damning its practice to Hell. Even if God decides to let every single gay person in Heaven, it's not because being gay is okay, it's only because God forgave their sin.
Installgentoo
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7/26/2014 1:01:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"If a man layeth with another man as a man does with a woman then his blood is upon him, he must surely die. Ye must take him to the center of your camp, and stone him with all your tribe members until he is dead, I AM THE LORD." --Exodus 10:1

Doesn't seem like God is too happy about people being gay.
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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7/26/2014 2:09:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?

So homosexuality is a sin to conservatives but killing in the name of God isn't. Lol
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annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/26/2014 2:30:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 2:09:27 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?

So homosexuality is a sin to conservatives but killing in the name of God isn't. Lol

Both are sins. There is no such thing as "killing in the name of God."

I can't help it if homosexuality is a sin any more than I can help it if lying and stealing are sins.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
LogicalLunatic
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7/26/2014 2:48:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There was nothing gay about David and Solomon. I originally intended on just ignoring this thread but I simply had to respond when somebody said THAT.
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ChristianPunk
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7/26/2014 6:35:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 2:48:16 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
There was nothing gay about David and Solomon. I originally intended on just ignoring this thread but I simply had to respond when somebody said THAT.

I said David and Johnathan. I never mentioned Solomon.
debateuser
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7/26/2014 7:58:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 2:30:20 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 2:09:27 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?

So homosexuality is a sin to conservatives but killing in the name of God isn't. Lol

Both are sins. There is no such thing as "killing in the name of God."

I can't help it if homosexuality is a sin any more than I can help it if lying and stealing are sins.

Oh really what do you think the crusades was. Or the modern jihad
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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7/26/2014 9:09:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 7:56:06 PM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Issues raised in your original post:

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.
Then you're missing the point. Paul says homosexuality can be a result of idolatry, referring to acts performed during idol worship. But it clearly still condemns both; The verse in Romans 1 basically says: "Look how wrong idol worship is! It even CAUSES homosexuality!".

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.
As a matter of fact I AM Greek and I can know when people pretty much make up things about Greek words used in the New Testament; such as the case of the word arsenokoitai, which pro-gay Christians like to dodge around by twisting its meaning and the context in which it is presented.

Issues raised in your response to my previous post:
And gay marriage is another gift and privilege from god.
You pretty much made this up.
He never once condemns gay sex nor does he define the definition of marriage.
Yes, He does.

Have you ever researched the genetics, biology or anything about what it means to be a homosexual?
No, because I don't need to. It doesn't matter if people are genetically gay. All people are born with an inclination to sin. Our nature is in direct conflict to God, gay or not. Sin is not what we do, it's what we are.

Have you considered if homosexuality is genetically determined (which it appears to be) then by expecting gays to be deny their nature it is similar to expecting someone to change their eye color. Did god give gays extra hurdles when compared to heterosexuals?

Although using this here taking it out of context, you can see how it fits:
Matthew 24b (ESV): "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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7/26/2014 9:49:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 6:35:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/26/2014 2:48:16 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
There was nothing gay about David and Solomon. I originally intended on just ignoring this thread but I simply had to respond when somebody said THAT.

I said David and Johnathan. I never mentioned Solomon.

Oops...that's what I meant. Sorry.
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annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/26/2014 10:44:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 7:58:57 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/26/2014 2:30:20 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 2:09:27 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?

So homosexuality is a sin to conservatives but killing in the name of God isn't. Lol

Both are sins. There is no such thing as "killing in the name of God."

I can't help it if homosexuality is a sin any more than I can help it if lying and stealing are sins.

Oh really what do you think the crusades was. Or the modern jihad

There were no "crusades" in the New Testament.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
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7/26/2014 11:28:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 11:25:45 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions.

This is clearly saying that god made them perform these "unnatural acts".

How can you not see that?

And if they are unnatural and god made everything from whence did they come?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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7/26/2014 11:51:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 1:01:47 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
"If a man layeth with another man as a man does with a woman then his blood is upon him, he must surely die. Ye must take him to the center of your camp, and stone him with all your tribe members until he is dead, I AM THE LORD." --Exodus 10:1

Doesn't seem like God is too happy about people being gay.

Exodus 10 American Standard Version (ASV)

10 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I may show these my signs in the midst of them,
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
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7/27/2014 12:05:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 9:49:12 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/26/2014 6:35:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/26/2014 2:48:16 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
There was nothing gay about David and Solomon. I originally intended on just ignoring this thread but I simply had to respond when somebody said THAT.

I said David and Johnathan. I never mentioned Solomon.

Oops...that's what I meant. Sorry.

David was married to multiple women, including Johnathan's sister. But the bible never says David loved her, but it says she loves him. David said Johnathan's love surpassed the love of all women.

There was a time David and Johnathan were alone. It says

1 Samuel 20

41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded. 42 And Jonathan said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the Lord, saying, The Lord be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city.

What does it mean when David Exceeded? And why did they kiss and weep until he exceeded?
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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7/27/2014 12:38:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 11:51:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/26/2014 1:01:47 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
"If a man layeth with another man as a man does with a woman then his blood is upon him, he must surely die. Ye must take him to the center of your camp, and stone him with all your tribe members until he is dead, I AM THE LORD." --Exodus 10:1

Doesn't seem like God is too happy about people being gay.

Exodus 10 American Standard Version (ASV)

10 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I may show these my signs in the midst of them,

Right, wrong book, it's the book after that, I think. Why do you care, anyway?
BradK
Posts: 475
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7/27/2014 12:43:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?

by calling a certain sexuality "wrong", you are offending my religious beliefs
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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7/27/2014 12:44:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 12:38:46 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 7/26/2014 11:51:27 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/26/2014 1:01:47 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
"If a man layeth with another man as a man does with a woman then his blood is upon him, he must surely die. Ye must take him to the center of your camp, and stone him with all your tribe members until he is dead, I AM THE LORD." --Exodus 10:1

Doesn't seem like God is too happy about people being gay.

Exodus 10 American Standard Version (ASV)

10 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I may show these my signs in the midst of them,

Right, wrong book, it's the book after that, I think. Why do you care, anyway?

haha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/27/2014 12:56:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?

Dude, if you're alluding to a gay relationship between Jonathan and David, you've got way too much gay sex on the brain.

Those two were NOT gay lovers. They were best of friends.
Seriously, you're just grasping for straws.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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7/27/2014 2:12:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
And don't forget this.

Leviticus 20 American Standard Version (ASV)

9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
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7/27/2014 5:01:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 11:28:26 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/26/2014 11:25:45 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions.

This is clearly saying that god made them perform these "unnatural acts".

How can you not see that?
It's "gave them up for unnatural acts", not "gave them unnatural acts".

And if they are unnatural and god made everything from whence did they come?
Sin is not the creation of something new, but the perversion of something that God had made good.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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7/27/2014 5:32:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 5:01:12 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 11:28:26 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/26/2014 11:25:45 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions.

This is clearly saying that god made them perform these "unnatural acts".

How can you not see that?
It's "gave them up for unnatural acts", not "gave them unnatural acts".

And if they are unnatural and god made everything from whence did they come?
Sin is not the creation of something new, but the perversion of something that God had made good.

It's amazing what indoctrination can make someone believe.

What dishonorable passions existed for god to give them up to?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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7/27/2014 7:24:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 10:44:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 7:58:57 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/26/2014 2:30:20 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 2:09:27 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/25/2014 1:44:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
According to some Christians, they believe being gay is a sin and that marriage between the same sex is unnatural. But I have one curious question. How do they know?

I have seen studies by scholars who talk that we must understand the history, culture and language of those times to know what was going on in the bible. So I usually get these questions.

1. Besides other things being abominations in the OT, do you read the first verse of each chapter? It says who those laws are aimed for.

2. Do you even know what abomination meant back then?

3. What do you think Romans talks about? I see its discussing Idoltry and not homosexuality.

4. Do you research the Greek and Hebrew words as well as the culture.

And

5. Do you know what sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

It's just this kind of stuff scares me when I also find people who degrade gays to not have human rights like marriage, parenting and benefits. So I gotta ask the Christians out there, what makes you believe it's a sin when that kind of thought and preaching kills gays and degrades them to be nothing good? Would you say the same about Johnathan and David?

So homosexuality is a sin to conservatives but killing in the name of God isn't. Lol

Both are sins. There is no such thing as "killing in the name of God."

I can't help it if homosexuality is a sin any more than I can help it if lying and stealing are sins.

Oh really what do you think the crusades was. Or the modern jihad

There were no "crusades" in the New Testament.

There are blasphemy issues in Christianity in which it is considered right to kill believers of other religions. Isn't that killing in the name of God.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

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