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Two Sure Signs You Are Not a Christian

sovereigngracereigns
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7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible. And since that's the book of Christianity, it would suggest that you're not serious about being a Christian.

There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/25/2014 11:39:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible. And since that's the book of Christianity, it would suggest that you're not serious about being a Christian.

There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible.


"There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible."

I have seen you make this statement many times. And I have always ignored it, but I'm really curious....

Do you mean that the Bible doesn't CLAIM to contain the words of Christ?
Or do you mean that the Bible DOES claim that it contains the words of Christ, but you don't believe that claim is true?

I'm assuming it's the second option, but the way that you phrase it, it almost sounds like you're saying the former.

If it's the former, it would be very easy to show you that you're wrong.
And if it's the latter, then nevermind. Carry on.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/25/2014 11:43:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 11:39:22 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible. And since that's the book of Christianity, it would suggest that you're not serious about being a Christian.

There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible.


"There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible."

I have seen you make this statement many times. And I have always ignored it, but I'm really curious....

Do you mean that the Bible doesn't CLAIM to contain the words of Christ?
Or do you mean that the Bible DOES claim that it contains the words of Christ, but you don't believe that claim is true?

I'm assuming it's the second option, but the way that you phrase it, it almost sounds like you're saying the former.

If it's the former, it would be very easy to show you that you're wrong.
And if it's the latter, then nevermind. Carry on.
It's the latter. There are many evidences which show rather clearly that nothing contained in the Bible could possibly be the actual words or teaching of Jesus - to the point that it adds to the reasons that it's justifiable to conclude that Jesus likely never actually existed. (I'm sure you've see that claim as well. But my intent is not to derail your thread.)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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7/25/2014 11:55:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The deity you claim exists is a d*** and I would refuse to worship him even if he did exist.

What the f is the point of life if we're just programmed robots who either accept Jesus or don't. What's the point of our existence. What's the point in war, in suffering, in art, in astronomy, in everything that doesn't have to do with this childish dichotomy of Jesus or no Jesus?

Your life must absolutely suck.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/25/2014 11:58:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 11:43:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:39:22 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible. And since that's the book of Christianity, it would suggest that you're not serious about being a Christian.

There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible.


"There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible."

I have seen you make this statement many times. And I have always ignored it, but I'm really curious....

Do you mean that the Bible doesn't CLAIM to contain the words of Christ?
Or do you mean that the Bible DOES claim that it contains the words of Christ, but you don't believe that claim is true?

I'm assuming it's the second option, but the way that you phrase it, it almost sounds like you're saying the former.

If it's the former, it would be very easy to show you that you're wrong.
And if it's the latter, then nevermind. Carry on.
It's the latter. There are many evidences which show rather clearly that nothing contained in the Bible could possibly be the actual words or teaching of Jesus - to the point that it adds to the reasons that it's justifiable to conclude that Jesus likely never actually existed. (I'm sure you've see that claim as well. But my intent is not to derail your thread.)

Well, I'm not interested enough in your silly attempts to discredit the Bible to read a lengthy treatise on it. But can you give me just ONE piece of "evidence" that nothing in the Bible could "possibly" be the actual words of Christ?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 12:03:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 11:55:39 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The deity you claim exists is a d*** and I would refuse to worship him even if he did exist.

What the f is the point of life if we're just programmed robots who either accept Jesus or don't. What's the point of our existence. What's the point in war, in suffering, in art, in astronomy, in everything that doesn't have to do with this childish dichotomy of Jesus or no Jesus?

Your life must absolutely suck.

Nobody is a robot at all.

We are all moral agents, responsible for our sin.
Our WILLS are EVIL. And we WILLFULLY COMMIT SIN.

And believers are "made willing" by the power of God. (Psalm 110:3)
They're not FORCED against their wills. They're made willing.

I know that sounds like a contradiction to Man's puny, so-called "logic," but being "made willing" is not the same as being forced.

Nor is it the same as being a "robot".
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/26/2014 12:16:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 11:58:36 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:43:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:39:22 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible. And since that's the book of Christianity, it would suggest that you're not serious about being a Christian.

There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible.


"There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible."

I have seen you make this statement many times. And I have always ignored it, but I'm really curious....

Do you mean that the Bible doesn't CLAIM to contain the words of Christ?
Or do you mean that the Bible DOES claim that it contains the words of Christ, but you don't believe that claim is true?

I'm assuming it's the second option, but the way that you phrase it, it almost sounds like you're saying the former.

If it's the former, it would be very easy to show you that you're wrong.
And if it's the latter, then nevermind. Carry on.
It's the latter. There are many evidences which show rather clearly that nothing contained in the Bible could possibly be the actual words or teaching of Jesus - to the point that it adds to the reasons that it's justifiable to conclude that Jesus likely never actually existed. (I'm sure you've see that claim as well. But my intent is not to derail your thread.)

Well, I'm not interested enough in your silly attempts to discredit the Bible to read a lengthy treatise on it. But can you give me just ONE piece of "evidence" that nothing in the Bible could "possibly" be the actual words of Christ?

Well, it's a bit difficult to wrap up every claim in the Bible with just one piece of evidence, but as this isn't the topic of your thread, I understand not wanting to wade in neck deep. At the same time, since you're a Christian, one might think it was worth some exploration.

Anyway... let's look to some statements presented in the Bible as the words of Jesus.

Mark 15:34 presents "My God my God, why have you forsaken me?" as the words of Jesus.
This comes word-for-word from Psalms 22:1

Matthew 11:5 tells us that Jesus said, "The blind receive their sight and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them."
In reality, this is simply paraphrased by the author from Isaiah 35:5, Isaiah 26;19 and Isaiah 61:1

Matthew 21:2 tells us that Jesus told his disciples to "Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Loose them and bring them to me."
Not only is this fictional dialog fabricated to match the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9, but it reveals that the author took the idea from the Old Testament and not from Jesus. Because in the Hebrew, the king enters the city riding one donkey, which is further described as "a colt" and the "foal of a donkey". When translated into Greek for the Septuagint, it was mistranslated as two donkeys, rather than one. And the author of "Matthew" (who wasn't Matthew), took his phony Jesus dialog from the Geek Septuagint, which didn't even exist in the time we're told Jesus existed.

There are other examples but I understand that you don't wish to spend hours on this.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.

Then had you been there when the querists on Pentecost asked, "What shall we do?" or when the Phillipian jailer inquired "What must I do to be saved?', you could have said, "Nothing. Not a thing. Just be saved." If I were you, I'd rethink that answer.

AND

If you think Jesus died for everybody,

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the spiritual realm." (I Pet 3: 18)

"(God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." (Heb. 2: 9)

and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

It's up to anyone and everyone to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, repent of their sins, and upon their confession of faith in Christ be immersed unto the remission of sins. Remember, according to you, if someone asks you what to do to be saved, your answer is, "Nothing. You can't do a thing. Just wait on God. Perchance He will save you. Maybe."

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

Nobody thinks that in the first place.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/26/2014 12:24:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.
Saved from what & because of what (allegedly?) & according to what?

Thank you!
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 12:29:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:24:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.
Saved from what & because of what (allegedly?) & according to what?

Thank you!


For the Jews who paid attention to Him ---> saved from the impending destruction of their city and state. That's the meaning of "saved" in the context of some oft-misapplied passages. That's the whole basis of the first 34 or so verses of Matt 24, which MCB erroneously claims refer to the end of time.

For both, saved from eternal separation from God.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 12:32:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible.

Yeah, we have - and from a lot better sources than a hyperskeptic such as Ehrmann. And you follow right in his little footsteps. By the way, you still have plenty of questions to answer regarding your poorly thought-out statement that likely the apostle John did not exist. If you did respond, I never received a notification.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/26/2014 12:35:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:29:01 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:24:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.
Saved from what & because of what (allegedly?) & according to what?

Thank you!


For the Jews who paid attention to Him ---> saved from the impending destruction of their city and state. That's the meaning of "saved" in the context of some oft-misapplied passages. That's the whole basis of the first 34 or so verses of Matt 24, which MCB erroneously claims refer to the end of time.

For both, saved from eternal separation from God.
So you are NOT including ' supposed original sin ' in that Story book reference?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 12:38:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:16:10 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:58:36 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:43:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:39:22 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible. And since that's the book of Christianity, it would suggest that you're not serious about being a Christian.

There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible.


"There are no "words of Jesus" or "teachings of Jesus" anywhere in the Bible."

I have seen you make this statement many times. And I have always ignored it, but I'm really curious....

Do you mean that the Bible doesn't CLAIM to contain the words of Christ?
Or do you mean that the Bible DOES claim that it contains the words of Christ, but you don't believe that claim is true?

I'm assuming it's the second option, but the way that you phrase it, it almost sounds like you're saying the former.

If it's the former, it would be very easy to show you that you're wrong.
And if it's the latter, then nevermind. Carry on.
It's the latter. There are many evidences which show rather clearly that nothing contained in the Bible could possibly be the actual words or teaching of Jesus - to the point that it adds to the reasons that it's justifiable to conclude that Jesus likely never actually existed. (I'm sure you've see that claim as well. But my intent is not to derail your thread.)

Well, I'm not interested enough in your silly attempts to discredit the Bible to read a lengthy treatise on it. But can you give me just ONE piece of "evidence" that nothing in the Bible could "possibly" be the actual words of Christ?

Well, it's a bit difficult to wrap up every claim in the Bible with just one piece of evidence, but as this isn't the topic of your thread, I understand not wanting to wade in neck deep. At the same time, since you're a Christian, one might think it was worth some exploration.

Anyway... let's look to some statements presented in the Bible as the words of Jesus.

Mark 15:34 presents "My God my God, why have you forsaken me?" as the words of Jesus.
This comes word-for-word from Psalms 22:1

Matthew 11:5 tells us that Jesus said, "The blind receive their sight and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them."
In reality, this is simply paraphrased by the author from Isaiah 35:5, Isaiah 26;19 and Isaiah 61:1

Matthew 21:2 tells us that Jesus told his disciples to "Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Loose them and bring them to me."
Not only is this fictional dialog fabricated to match the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9, but it reveals that the author took the idea from the Old Testament and not from Jesus. Because in the Hebrew, the king enters the city riding one donkey, which is further described as "a colt" and the "foal of a donkey". When translated into Greek for the Septuagint, it was mistranslated as two donkeys, rather than one. And the author of "Matthew" (who wasn't Matthew), took his phony Jesus dialog from the Geek Septuagint, which didn't even exist in the time we're told Jesus existed.

There are other examples but I understand that you don't wish to spend hours on this.

Yeah, I've seen you make this argument before, but its just so ridiculous, I never bothered to address it.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that Jesus' alleged sayings are often word- for-word quotes from the Old Testament, and that SOMEHOW that's "evidence" that they were not his actual words.

You do realize, of course, that the claim of the Bible is that the prophets were inspired by the Holy Spirit, right?
And the claim of the Bible is that the words of Christ were spoken prophetically, long before his incarnation and appearance in this world.

So, I don't understand your point.
It's like you're saying: "Aha! You foolish Christians don't even realize that Jesus quoted the Old Testament!"

Of course Christians know he quoted the Old Testament. That's the basis of our belief that both testaments are the Word of God.

It's not like the Bible is trying to CONCEAL the fact that Jesus' sayings directly quote the Old Testament.
So really, I just don't see your point.
sovereigngracereigns
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7/26/2014 12:41:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.

Then had you been there when the querists on Pentecost asked, "What shall we do?" or when the Phillipian jailer inquired "What must I do to be saved?', you could have said, "Nothing. Not a thing. Just be saved." If I were you, I'd rethink that answer.

AND

If you think Jesus died for everybody,

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the spiritual realm." (I Pet 3: 18)

"(God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." (Heb. 2: 9)

and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

It's up to anyone and everyone to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, repent of their sins, and upon their confession of faith in Christ be immersed unto the remission of sins. Remember, according to you, if someone asks you what to do to be saved, your answer is, "Nothing. You can't do a thing. Just wait on God. Perchance He will save you. Maybe."

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

Nobody thinks that in the first place.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.

Annanicole,

You are willfully ignorant and determined to remain blind. And there's nothing I can do to help you.

If God does not open your eyes, you'll spend eternity in Hell.

May the Lord open your eyes, for Christ's sake.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 12:41:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:35:24 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:29:01 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:24:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.
Saved from what & because of what (allegedly?) & according to what?

Thank you!


For the Jews who paid attention to Him ---> saved from the impending destruction of their city and state. That's the meaning of "saved" in the context of some oft-misapplied passages. That's the whole basis of the first 34 or so verses of Matt 24, which MCB erroneously claims refer to the end of time.

For both, saved from eternal separation from God.
So you are NOT including ' supposed original sin ' in that Story book reference?

There is no such thing as "original sin" unless you mean that, according the narrative, Adam committed the "original sin". The usage that many people make of the term is incorrect. Jesus never claimed to have come to remove "original sin."

Interestingly enough, the closest reference to such a thing would be John 1: 29 as John the Baptist said, "On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!" The word there is "sin" - not "sins".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/26/2014 12:45:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:41:23 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.

Then had you been there when the querists on Pentecost asked, "What shall we do?" or when the Phillipian jailer inquired "What must I do to be saved?', you could have said, "Nothing. Not a thing. Just be saved." If I were you, I'd rethink that answer.

AND

If you think Jesus died for everybody,

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the spiritual realm." (I Pet 3: 18)

"(God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." (Heb. 2: 9)

and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

It's up to anyone and everyone to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, repent of their sins, and upon their confession of faith in Christ be immersed unto the remission of sins. Remember, according to you, if someone asks you what to do to be saved, your answer is, "Nothing. You can't do a thing. Just wait on God. Perchance He will save you. Maybe."

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

Nobody thinks that in the first place.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.

Annanicole,

You are willfully ignorant and determined to remain blind. And there's nothing I can do to help you.

: If God does not open your eyes, you'll spend eternity in Hell.

May the Lord open your eyes, for Christ's sake.

You worship a monster.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 12:47:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:41:23 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.

Then had you been there when the querists on Pentecost asked, "What shall we do?" or when the Phillipian jailer inquired "What must I do to be saved?', you could have said, "Nothing. Not a thing. Just be saved." If I were you, I'd rethink that answer.

AND

If you think Jesus died for everybody,

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the spiritual realm." (I Pet 3: 18)

"(God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." (Heb. 2: 9)

and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

It's up to anyone and everyone to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, repent of their sins, and upon their confession of faith in Christ be immersed unto the remission of sins. Remember, according to you, if someone asks you what to do to be saved, your answer is, "Nothing. You can't do a thing. Just wait on God. Perchance He will save you. Maybe."

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

Nobody thinks that in the first place.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.

Annanicole,

You are willfully ignorant and determined to remain blind. And there's nothing I can do to help you.

If God does not open your eyes, you'll spend eternity in Hell.

May the Lord open your eyes, for Christ's sake.

Dude, if anybody around here needs his eyes opened - including atheists - it's YOU. You have forced yourself into a dark, dismal corner because of your loyalty to the conjectures and theories and doctrines of men.

It's pretty pitiful when your most truthful answer to "What must I do - what MUST I DO (not what did Christ do) to be saved?" is .... "Nothing. Not a thing. You can't do anything. Just sit there on a stump and perchance God will open your eyes." Inspired men didn't give that answer. Yet you are stuck with it. S-T-U-C-K.

Why don't you try right here? Tell the world, "What must I do to be saved?" Don't ramble around telling us about what God might do. We are not concerned at the moment with what the Holy Spirit might do. We want to know what "I" must do. I guarantee that you'll hop-scotch back and forth between, "There's nothing you can do, but here's what you have to do."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Beastt
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7/26/2014 12:48:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible.

Yeah, we have - and from a lot better sources than a hyperskeptic such as Ehrmann.
If you're going to pretend to know so much about him, at least learn how to spell his name. E-h-r-m-a-n, just one "n". And stop pretending like he's my only source. I've read dozens of different authors and the most striking thing is how much the agree upon when it comes to the frauds, forgeries, false claims and evidence against the Bible.

And you follow right in his little footsteps.
Because he makes tons more sense than anything you've EVER produced. Not to mention the fact that he's obviously far better educated on the matter than either you or I will ever hope to be. The difference is, I acknowledge that fact.

By the way, you still have plenty of questions to answer regarding your poorly thought-out statement that likely the apostle John did not exist. If you did respond, I never received a notification.
Anna, you're just a pain to debate. I can handle someone who is very knowledgeable and provides a good argument. And you do - sometimes - do that. But you never let any issue drop. You NEVER admit when you're beaten. If I pointed out that a Bible had a tear in a cover you'd swear it didn't. And after ten eye-witness testimonies, the authoritative judgement of a book binder, and microscopic examination, you'd still be swearing that I was wrong, shifting goal-posts, trying to route your argument through unrelated topics and losing your pee over the issue. Learn that you're not always right. Better yet - learn to do something you've never even allowed yourself to consider doing; learn to consider that Christianity might be false. You won't even allow yourself to consider the possibility. And for that reason, you'll never know the truth. Anyone who is unwilling to accept the conclusions of the evidence, will never accept anything but what they have already decided.

I was a theist for 33-years, Anna. I know it's difficult to consider taking your entire world-view and dumping it straight into the garbage. It all comes down to one thing; is it more important to hold onto your current beliefs, or is it more important to know the truth? So far, you show absolutely no interest in the truth.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 12:50:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:45:32 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:41:23 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.

Then had you been there when the querists on Pentecost asked, "What shall we do?" or when the Phillipian jailer inquired "What must I do to be saved?', you could have said, "Nothing. Not a thing. Just be saved." If I were you, I'd rethink that answer.

AND

If you think Jesus died for everybody,

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the spiritual realm." (I Pet 3: 18)

"(God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." (Heb. 2: 9)

and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

It's up to anyone and everyone to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, repent of their sins, and upon their confession of faith in Christ be immersed unto the remission of sins. Remember, according to you, if someone asks you what to do to be saved, your answer is, "Nothing. You can't do a thing. Just wait on God. Perchance He will save you. Maybe."

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

Nobody thinks that in the first place.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.

Annanicole,

You are willfully ignorant and determined to remain blind. And there's nothing I can do to help you.

: If God does not open your eyes, you'll spend eternity in Hell.

May the Lord open your eyes, for Christ's sake.

You worship a monster.

No, you worship a monster.
You worship yourself.

God is JUST, and you'll acknowledge it one day.

But if God does not open your eyes, you'll spend eternity in Hell.

May the Lord open your eyes, for Christ's sake.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 12:54:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:48:16 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible.

Yeah, we have - and from a lot better sources than a hyperskeptic such as Ehrmann.
If you're going to pretend to know so much about him, at least learn how to spell his name. E-h-r-m-a-n, just one "n". And stop pretending like he's my only source. I've read dozens of different authors and the most striking thing is how much the agree upon when it comes to the frauds, forgeries, false claims and evidence against the Bible.

And you follow right in his little footsteps.
Because he makes tons more sense than anything you've EVER produced. Not to mention the fact that he's obviously far better educated on the matter than either you or I will ever hope to be. The difference is, I acknowledge that fact.

By the way, you still have plenty of questions to answer regarding your poorly thought-out statement that likely the apostle John did not exist. If you did respond, I never received a notification.
Anna, you're just a pain to debate. I can handle someone who is very knowledgeable and provides a good argument. And you do - sometimes - do that. But you never let any issue drop. You NEVER admit when you're beaten. If I pointed out that a Bible had a tear in a cover you'd swear it didn't. And after ten eye-witness testimonies, the authoritative judgement of a book binder, and microscopic examination, you'd still be swearing that I was wrong, shifting goal-posts, trying to route your argument through unrelated topics and losing your pee over the issue. Learn that you're not always right. Better yet - learn to do something you've never even allowed yourself to consider doing; learn to consider that Christianity might be false. You won't even allow yourself to consider the possibility. And for that reason, you'll never know the truth. Anyone who is unwilling to accept the conclusions of the evidence, will never accept anything but what they have already decided.

I was a theist for 33-years, Anna. I know it's difficult to consider taking your entire world-view and dumping it straight into the garbage. It all comes down to one thing; is it more important to hold onto your current beliefs, or is it more important to know the truth? So far, you show absolutely no interest in the truth.

When I'm beat?

(1) I asked if John the Apostle was an historical person
(2) You replied either, "No" or "most likely not"
(3) I countered with a few questions regarding the Book of John, Polycarp, Iranaeus, Tertullian, etc
(4) You never answered.

Yet in response to a simple reminder of those questions, you announce, "You NEVER admit when you're beaten." I'll give you credit for this much: you sure win a lot of debates with very little effort. You answered, "No, John the Apostle was not a real person" and apparently think you did great. You did the same thing on six or eight questions off the top of my head on the authenticity/genuineness of Mark 16. Never answered. I finally gave up on that.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 12:54:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:47:41 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:41:23 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.

Then had you been there when the querists on Pentecost asked, "What shall we do?" or when the Phillipian jailer inquired "What must I do to be saved?', you could have said, "Nothing. Not a thing. Just be saved." If I were you, I'd rethink that answer.

AND

If you think Jesus died for everybody,

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the spiritual realm." (I Pet 3: 18)

"(God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." (Heb. 2: 9)

and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

It's up to anyone and everyone to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, repent of their sins, and upon their confession of faith in Christ be immersed unto the remission of sins. Remember, according to you, if someone asks you what to do to be saved, your answer is, "Nothing. You can't do a thing. Just wait on God. Perchance He will save you. Maybe."

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

Nobody thinks that in the first place.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.

Annanicole,

You are willfully ignorant and determined to remain blind. And there's nothing I can do to help you.

If God does not open your eyes, you'll spend eternity in Hell.

May the Lord open your eyes, for Christ's sake.

Dude, if anybody around here needs his eyes opened - including atheists - it's YOU. You have forced yourself into a dark, dismal corner because of your loyalty to the conjectures and theories and doctrines of men.

It's pretty pitiful when your most truthful answer to "What must I do - what MUST I DO (not what did Christ do) to be saved?" is .... "Nothing. Not a thing. You can't do anything. Just sit there on a stump and perchance God will open your eyes." Inspired men didn't give that answer. Yet you are stuck with it. S-T-U-C-K.

Why don't you try right here? Tell the world, "What must I do to be saved?" Don't ramble around telling us about what God might do. We are not concerned at the moment with what the Holy Spirit might do. We want to know what "I" must do. I guarantee that you'll hop-scotch back and forth between, "There's nothing you can do, but here's what you have to do."

You've gone so far off the track of what I actually said, it's not worth the effort of trying to bring it back.

As usual, you are deliberately misquoting and misunderstanding what I said.
So, go ahead and remain in ignorance.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/26/2014 12:55:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:41:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:35:24 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:29:01 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:24:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.
Saved from what & because of what (allegedly?) & according to what?

Thank you!


For the Jews who paid attention to Him ---> saved from the impending destruction of their city and state. That's the meaning of "saved" in the context of some oft-misapplied passages. That's the whole basis of the first 34 or so verses of Matt 24, which MCB erroneously claims refer to the end of time.

For both, saved from eternal separation from God.
So you are NOT including ' supposed original sin ' in that Story book reference?

There is no such thing as "original sin" unless you mean that, according the narrative, Adam committed the "original sin". The usage that many people make of the term is incorrect. Jesus never claimed to have come to remove "original sin."

Interestingly enough, the closest reference to such a thing would be John 1: 29 as John the Baptist said, "On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!" The word there is "sin" - not "sins".
So you disagree with mainstream xtianity & Rom. 5:12 that Adam sinned and because of that ALL mankind was condemned?

&

At 7/26/2014 12:41:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
(John 1:29) The word there is "sin" - not "sins".

cf.

I John 2:2: ESV Story book
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Sins (Plural) not ' sin ' (singular)
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 12:58:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:48:16 AM, Beastt wrote:

Anna, you're just a pain to debate. I can handle someone who is very knowledgeable and provides a good argument. And you do - sometimes - do that. But you never let any issue drop. You NEVER admit when you're beaten. If I pointed out that a Bible had a tear in a cover you'd swear it didn't. And after ten eye-witness testimonies, the authoritative judgement of a book binder, and microscopic examination, you'd still be swearing that I was wrong, shifting goal-posts, trying to route your argument through unrelated topics and losing your pee over the issue. Learn that you're not always right.

Amen to that.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
sovereigngracereigns
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7/26/2014 1:00:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:55:00 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:41:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:35:24 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:29:01 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:24:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.
Saved from what & because of what (allegedly?) & according to what?

Thank you!


For the Jews who paid attention to Him ---> saved from the impending destruction of their city and state. That's the meaning of "saved" in the context of some oft-misapplied passages. That's the whole basis of the first 34 or so verses of Matt 24, which MCB erroneously claims refer to the end of time.

For both, saved from eternal separation from God.
So you are NOT including ' supposed original sin ' in that Story book reference?

There is no such thing as "original sin" unless you mean that, according the narrative, Adam committed the "original sin". The usage that many people make of the term is incorrect. Jesus never claimed to have come to remove "original sin."

Interestingly enough, the closest reference to such a thing would be John 1: 29 as John the Baptist said, "On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!" The word there is "sin" - not "sins".
So you disagree with mainstream xtianity & Rom. 5:12 that Adam sinned and because of that ALL mankind was condemned?

&

At 7/26/2014 12:41:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
(John 1:29) The word there is "sin" - not "sins".

cf.

I John 2:2: ESV Story book
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Sins (Plural) not ' sin ' (singular)

Yeah, she likes to cherry-pick the Scriptures.

And I don't know what's more repugnant, her attitude, or her so-called "theology".
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 1:03:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:48:16 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible.

Yeah, we have - and from a lot better sources than a hyperskeptic such as Ehrmann.
If you're going to pretend to know so much about him, at least learn how to spell his name. E-h-r-m-a-n, just one "n". And stop pretending like he's my only source. I've read dozens of different authors and the most striking thing is how much the agree upon when it comes to the frauds, forgeries, false claims and evidence against the Bible.

And you follow right in his little footsteps.
Because he makes tons more sense than anything you've EVER produced. Not to mention the fact that he's obviously far better educated on the matter than either you or I will ever hope to be. The difference is, I acknowledge that fact.

Anybody who pops off that he demands ten or twelve first-generation copies written within one week of the original with less than 0.01% variation hasn't got his freakin' head screwed on tight. That's what I mean by "hyperskeptic". Yet that's precisely what Dr. Ehrman said it would "take" to convince him. The ole boy doesn't want to be convinced, and has set up insurmountable barriers in his own mind.

Certainly he's better educated, which begs the question, "How come even I can spot the DELIBERATE misrepresentations, the purposeful misleading, in his statements - and off the top of my head, at that? He attributes hideous motives to innocent errors. He assigns late dates arbitrarily to suit his beliefs.

There is circulating a fragment of Mark that dates to possibly the mid-1st century. It is POSSIBLE due to a 25-yr-on-either-side window. I GUARANTEE you that Dr. Ehrman will dispute it. Guarantee it. He has to find a hole in it. The selected teams of papyrologists won't suit him.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 1:05:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:55:00 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:41:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:35:24 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:29:01 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:24:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.
Saved from what & because of what (allegedly?) & according to what?

Thank you!


For the Jews who paid attention to Him ---> saved from the impending destruction of their city and state. That's the meaning of "saved" in the context of some oft-misapplied passages. That's the whole basis of the first 34 or so verses of Matt 24, which MCB erroneously claims refer to the end of time.

For both, saved from eternal separation from God.
So you are NOT including ' supposed original sin ' in that Story book reference?

There is no such thing as "original sin" unless you mean that, according the narrative, Adam committed the "original sin". The usage that many people make of the term is incorrect. Jesus never claimed to have come to remove "original sin."

Interestingly enough, the closest reference to such a thing would be John 1: 29 as John the Baptist said, "On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!" The word there is "sin" - not "sins".
So you disagree with mainstream xtianity & Rom. 5:12 that Adam sinned and because of that ALL mankind was condemned?

Yep. I do not believe "all" means newborn infants.

&

At 7/26/2014 12:41:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
(John 1:29) The word there is "sin" - not "sins".

cf.

I John 2:2: ESV Story book
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Sins (Plural) not ' sin ' (singular)

Yes, it's both ways. I was pointing out that John specifically said, "Sin" - the barrier that then existed between God and man - and a barrier that effected an impossibility for men to receive the actual, literal forgiveness of any sin.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/26/2014 1:07:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:54:17 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:47:41 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:41:23 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:19:58 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.

Then had you been there when the querists on Pentecost asked, "What shall we do?" or when the Phillipian jailer inquired "What must I do to be saved?', you could have said, "Nothing. Not a thing. Just be saved." If I were you, I'd rethink that answer.

AND

If you think Jesus died for everybody,

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the spiritual realm." (I Pet 3: 18)

"(God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." (Heb. 2: 9)

and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

It's up to anyone and everyone to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, repent of their sins, and upon their confession of faith in Christ be immersed unto the remission of sins. Remember, according to you, if someone asks you what to do to be saved, your answer is, "Nothing. You can't do a thing. Just wait on God. Perchance He will save you. Maybe."

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

Nobody thinks that in the first place.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

The Messiah came that His people, both Jews and Gentiles, would have the opportunity to be saved.

Annanicole,

You are willfully ignorant and determined to remain blind. And there's nothing I can do to help you.

If God does not open your eyes, you'll spend eternity in Hell.

May the Lord open your eyes, for Christ's sake.

Dude, if anybody around here needs his eyes opened - including atheists - it's YOU. You have forced yourself into a dark, dismal corner because of your loyalty to the conjectures and theories and doctrines of men.

It's pretty pitiful when your most truthful answer to "What must I do - what MUST I DO (not what did Christ do) to be saved?" is .... "Nothing. Not a thing. You can't do anything. Just sit there on a stump and perchance God will open your eyes." Inspired men didn't give that answer. Yet you are stuck with it. S-T-U-C-K.

Why don't you try right here? Tell the world, "What must I do to be saved?" Don't ramble around telling us about what God might do. We are not concerned at the moment with what the Holy Spirit might do. We want to know what "I" must do. I guarantee that you'll hop-scotch back and forth between, "There's nothing you can do, but here's what you have to do."

You've gone so far off the track of what I actually said, it's not worth the effort of trying to bring it back.

As usual, you are deliberately misquoting and misunderstanding what I said.
So, go ahead and remain in ignorance.

Oh, I didn't misquote you. You said that there is nothing a man can do in order to be counted as righteous, i. e. saved.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 1:10:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 1:03:40 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:48:16 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:32:23 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:33:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:54:50 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
If you think you are righteous because of anything you've done or might do,
then you are NOT a Christian.
AND
If you think Jesus died for everybody, and it's up to you to "accept" him, then you are NOT a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they are righteous because of anything in themselves has never repented of sin.

And anyone who thinks Christ TRIED to save his people, and yet FAILED to save some of them, has never believed on Christ.

And anyone who thinks the Bible contains any of the teachings of Jesus, an accurate character portrayal of Jesus, or a portrayal of events concerning Jesus, has never taken the time to learn about the origins and history of the Bible.

Yeah, we have - and from a lot better sources than a hyperskeptic such as Ehrmann.
If you're going to pretend to know so much about him, at least learn how to spell his name. E-h-r-m-a-n, just one "n". And stop pretending like he's my only source. I've read dozens of different authors and the most striking thing is how much the agree upon when it comes to the frauds, forgeries, false claims and evidence against the Bible.

And you follow right in his little footsteps.
Because he makes tons more sense than anything you've EVER produced. Not to mention the fact that he's obviously far better educated on the matter than either you or I will ever hope to be. The difference is, I acknowledge that fact.

Anybody who pops off that he demands ten or twelve first-generation copies written within one week of the original with less than 0.01% variation hasn't got his freakin' head screwed on tight. That's what I mean by "hyperskeptic". Yet that's precisely what Dr. Ehrman said it would "take" to convince him. The ole boy doesn't want to be convinced, and has set up insurmountable barriers in his own mind.

Certainly he's better educated, which begs the question, "How come even I can spot the DELIBERATE misrepresentations, the purposeful misleading, in his statements - and off the top of my head, at that? He attributes hideous motives to innocent errors. He assigns late dates arbitrarily to suit his beliefs.

There is circulating a fragment of Mark that dates to possibly the mid-1st century. It is POSSIBLE due to a 25-yr-on-either-side window. I GUARANTEE you that Dr. Ehrman will dispute it. Guarantee it. He has to find a hole in it. The selected teams of papyrologists won't suit him.

Annanicole,

If you spent more time on Jesus Christ instead of hyperskeptics and papyrus, you might actually know a thing or two about the Scriptures.

These atheists are completely owning you every time they respond to your posts.
Just learn to admit you're wrong, and shut your trap.

Christ is the only subject worthy of the time and attention of Christians.
Get your head out of your proverbial behind and focus on Christ.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/26/2014 1:10:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:38:34 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:16:10 AM, Beastt wrote:

Yeah, I've seen you make this argument before, but its just so ridiculous, I never bothered to address it.
Perhaps one of these times you'll actually read it.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that Jesus' alleged sayings are often word- for-word quotes from the Old Testament, and that SOMEHOW that's "evidence" that they were not his actual words.
Well, when you consider that the Bible wasn't even constructed until around 300-years after Jesus was supposed to have existed, it looks a bit odd that so much of what Jesus (and other characters - some of them unnamed), were claimed to have said, instead came from Old Testament verses. For instance; what about the unnamed heckler in Matthew 27:43? His supposed dialog comes right out of Psalms 22:8? He's heckling Jesus. Is he also divine and quoting the Old Testament because he's also God and speaking the "word of God"?

You do realize, of course, that the claim of the Bible is that the prophets were inspired by the Holy Spirit, right?
Claims don't mean much when the evidence doesn't support them.

And the claim of the Bible is that the words of Christ were spoken prophetically, long before his incarnation and appearance in this world.
And yet, weren't written down for decades after his supposed death, and just happen to match the documents selected for inclusion in the Bible 300-years later?

So, I don't understand your point.
It's like you're saying: "Aha! You foolish Christians don't even realize that Jesus quoted the Old Testament!"
Perhaps you should take a look. Did you just gloss right over the FACT that the author of Matthew didn't quote the Old Testament, but thought he did? And he instead took a mistranslation and presented it as the words of Jesus? Would you like to explain that away as Jesus speaking prophetically from a Greek mistranslation?

Of course Christians know he quoted the Old Testament. That's the basis of our belief that both testaments are the Word of God.
No it isn't. The basis for that belief is that a council of men from the 4th century, who never knew Jesus, never knew any of the characters from the New Testament, and had no way to know what was or wasn't true; included the Old Testament with the books they selected for the New Testament, and then they CLAIMED it to be the "word of God".

But you seem to be ignoring that Jesus' dialog came from the Greek Septuagint, instead of the Hebrew Old Testament in Matthew 21:2. And it doesn't match the prophecy in the Hebrew text of Zechariah 9:9, as was intended.

It's not like the Bible is trying to CONCEAL the fact that Jesus' sayings directly quote the Old Testament.
So really, I just don't see your point.
The point is that people who never knew Jesus, who were writing decades after he was supposed to have died, were quoting the Old Testament and claiming it to be the words of Jesus, EVEN WHEN... they quoted mistranslations of the Old Testament instead!

It's pretty obvious that they sat down, took the prophecies of the Old Testament, wrote out stories about a man they never knew fulfilling those prophecies, and presented the verses themselves as the words of Jesus, EVEN when the verses were mistranslated and obviously didn't come from Jesus! Did he ride a donkey into the city twice; once on only one donkey for Mark Luke and John to record, and then rode two donkeys in for Matthew to record?

Your gullibility on these issues exceeds any form of rational judgement.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire