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Prove to me that your God made the universe.

YamaVonKarma
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8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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8/1/2014 2:05:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
How do ants tell each other how the world was created? How do less intelligent species answer questions more intelligent species cannot answer? Who are these more intelligent species? Us, in our future evolved for higher consciousness compared to ourselves now at this stage of evolution of intelligent consciousness. We do have models for consideration that future selves have evolved to godlike beings capable of godlike powers such as turning thought into matter.

We thought Creation and it was. Here we are as living proof of it. It' how a God can be "unbegotten", starting off as Thought turning into Matter and then Creation is born..
celestialtorahteacher
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8/1/2014 2:17:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Our future selves have become the Elohim, the Holy Family, and created themselves through the evolution of Creation from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation. It is the living Machine that creates God as our distant future selves. How do you know this is true? By studying the Pattern of prophets inspired by angels who are sent back down the time line to help guide Humanity into becoming humane beings. As that's what is basic for God and our life in the World to Come. Creation, this world is where our souls learn the lessons necessary for that World to Come. We don't know what lessons they all are, only that most involve learning about love and forgiveness. The Humanitarian Archetype is crucial for our development which is why God, the Elohim, sent in the Christ, the Messiah as Model for Humane Being development in us. Christianity is God's Plan for pacification of homo sapiens to end our animal behavior patterns that can't be carried into further civilized life.

The Christ is built within us and is triggered into activity by recognition of the Christ in the outside world. Hence the proselytization of Christianity around the globe. I bear witness to this teaching from our future selves via the angels and prophets of God.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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8/1/2014 2:24:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Quan 21:30
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?

Well it talks about probably about the big bang...

Quran 51:47
And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.

The universe expanding.....

Or
52:35-6
Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]?
Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather, they are not certain.

From that we can deduce 4 options
1. Universe came from nothing
2. It created itself
3. Something else created it
4. God created it

There are lectures about this verse going to the kamal cosmological argument.... anyway another one....

2:28
How can you disbelieve in Allah when you were lifeless and He brought you to life; then He will cause you to die, then He will bring you [back] to life, and then to Him you will be returned.
Never fart near dog
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/1/2014 4:33:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

I would caution you, YamaVonKarma, as this is equally dangerous ground for Theists as Atheists. For example, it would be equally rash for me to demand that you prove evolution. The problem on both sides is that both are taken from viewed evidence. I've written quite a bit about it on many of these forums, to say that both Theism and Atheism are working off of evidence that they believe to be true. However, neither group can physically prove to science's own liking that they are 100% factual. Yes, even Evolution does not meet science's own requirement, which is "Reproducible." We have been unable to recreate the macro evolution that secular science has taken upon itself to believe, just like we have been unable to recreate a seven-day creation (in defense of Christianity in particular) of the universe. The problem on both sides is that you cannot simply say that where we are is example enough, because both sides can claim that. You have to reproduce it in a laboratory setting. Both sides have this difficulty, because macro evolution takes millions of years, and creation of a universe in the way that Theism describes is impossible for man to accomplish.

In summary, neither side is able to prove to science's own standards that either belief is correct. To place the burden of proof on only one side is dangerous at the very least. Both sides must work to prove the accuracy of their theories, but in both sides, such a thing is impossible.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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8/1/2014 6:19:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Google it. Nobody is gonna endlessly type in response to two lines.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/1/2014 10:24:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 2:17:03 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Our future selves have become the Elohim, the Holy Family, and created themselves through the evolution of Creation from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation. It is the living Machine that creates God as our distant future selves. How do you know this is true? By studying the Pattern of prophets inspired by angels who are sent back down the time line to help guide Humanity into becoming humane beings. As that's what is basic for God and our life in the World to Come. Creation, this world is where our souls learn the lessons necessary for that World to Come. We don't know what lessons they all are, only that most involve learning about love and forgiveness. The Humanitarian Archetype is crucial for our development which is why God, the Elohim, sent in the Christ, the Messiah as Model for Humane Being development in us. Christianity is God's Plan for pacification of homo sapiens to end our animal behavior patterns that can't be carried into further civilized life.

The Christ is built within us and is triggered into activity by recognition of the Christ in the outside world. Hence the proselytization of Christianity around the globe. I bear witness to this teaching from our future selves via the angels and prophets of God.

No.
Just no.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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8/1/2014 10:36:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

My gods created the universe.

But my gods are etherial, immensely powerful and not personified.

How arrogant would it be to attempt to personify powers so immense they could fuel existence?

This is the main issue I have with most worldly religious practices. They are all so certain of what they know.

My beliefs are that any higher power is so beyond our scope of cognitive understanding, it is arrogant and childish to assign personification to the entity(s).

How then, would someone prove the existence of forces so vastly beyond our scope of comprehension? Even if such proof could be shown, it would be beyond our comprehension.

This is why we must focus our efforts on sustainability, scientific advancement, and fostering cooperation.

All theologies are ultimately arrogant, as they assign human personification to higher entities which would have no use for our corporeality.
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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8/1/2014 10:36:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 2:05:15 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
How do ants tell each other how the world was created? How do less intelligent species answer questions more intelligent species cannot answer? Who are these more intelligent species? Us, in our future evolved for higher consciousness compared to ourselves now at this stage of evolution of intelligent consciousness. We do have models for consideration that future selves have evolved to godlike beings capable of godlike powers such as turning thought into matter.

We thought Creation and it was. Here we are as living proof of it. It' how a God can be "unbegotten", starting off as Thought turning into Matter and then Creation is born..

Excellent response!
The_Immortal_Emris
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8/1/2014 10:40:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 10:24:08 AM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/1/2014 2:17:03 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Our future selves have become the Elohim, the Holy Family, and created themselves through the evolution of Creation from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation. It is the living Machine that creates God as our distant future selves. How do you know this is true? By studying the Pattern of prophets inspired by angels who are sent back down the time line to help guide Humanity into becoming humane beings. As that's what is basic for God and our life in the World to Come. Creation, this world is where our souls learn the lessons necessary for that World to Come. We don't know what lessons they all are, only that most involve learning about love and forgiveness. The Humanitarian Archetype is crucial for our development which is why God, the Elohim, sent in the Christ, the Messiah as Model for Humane Being development in us. Christianity is God's Plan for pacification of homo sapiens to end our animal behavior patterns that can't be carried into further civilized life.

The Christ is built within us and is triggered into activity by recognition of the Christ in the outside world. Hence the proselytization of Christianity around the globe. I bear witness to this teaching from our future selves via the angels and prophets of God.

No.
Just no.

This is their opinion, if you would like to refute an aspect of it, you should do so, but just saying "no" does nothing to further the discourse. Again you demonstrate an unwillingness to be tolerant.
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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8/1/2014 10:45:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

http://www.hawking.org.uk...

Tremendous lecture on the subject. It is riveting. I suggest you give it a read.

Here's a quote you might enjoy:

"However in 1915, Einstein introduced his revolutionary General Theory of Relativity. In this, space and time were no longer Absolute, no longer a fixed background to events. Instead, they were dynamical quantities that were shaped by the matter and energy in the universe. They were defined only within the universe, so it made no sense to talk of a time before the universe began. It would be like asking for a point south of the South Pole. It is not defined. If the universe was essentially unchanging in time, as was generally assumed before the 1920s, there would be no reason that time should not be defined arbitrarily far back. Any so-called beginning of the universe would be artificial, in the sense that one could extend the history back to earlier times. Thus it might be that the universe was created last year, but with all the memories and physical evidence, to look like it was much older."
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/1/2014 11:14:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 4:33:42 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

I would caution you, YamaVonKarma, as this is equally dangerous ground for Theists as Atheists. For example, it would be equally rash for me to demand that you prove evolution. The problem on both sides is that both are taken from viewed evidence. I've written quite a bit about it on many of these forums, to say that both Theism and Atheism are working off of evidence that they believe to be true. However, neither group can physically prove to science's own liking that they are 100% factual. Yes, even Evolution does not meet science's own requirement, which is "Reproducible." We have been unable to recreate the macro evolution that secular science has taken upon itself to believe, just like we have been unable to recreate a seven-day creation (in defense of Christianity in particular) of the universe. The problem on both sides is that you cannot simply say that where we are is example enough, because both sides can claim that. You have to reproduce it in a laboratory setting. Both sides have this difficulty, because macro evolution takes millions of years, and creation of a universe in the way that Theism describes is impossible for man to accomplish.

In summary, neither side is able to prove to science's own standards that either belief is correct. To place the burden of proof on only one side is dangerous at the very least. Both sides must work to prove the accuracy of their theories, but in both sides, such a thing is impossible.


August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Trust me. I am aware of this.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
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YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/1/2014 11:15:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 6:19:36 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Google it. Nobody is gonna endlessly type in response to two lines.
Fine. I certainly won't be injured by a lack of response from you.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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8/1/2014 11:16:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Prove He didn't.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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8/1/2014 11:19:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:15:13 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/1/2014 6:19:36 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Google it. Nobody is gonna endlessly type in response to two lines.
Fine. I certainly won't be injured by a lack of response from you.

You won't be affected by a response from anyone. You can find dozens and dozens of websites with multiplied thousands of hours of reading time. That won't injure you either.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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8/1/2014 11:22:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:16:27 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Prove He didn't.

Perfect logic.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/1/2014 11:24:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I made this forum based on a challenge between myself and f(whatever). I asked him to prove to me that allah made the universe. I'll start putting work into this when my 'opponent' actually cares to show up. Side note: We're making progress, aside from a few people who shalt not be named. I would especially like to applaud POPOO5560, and Arasa.
POP for following a guideline similar to what I asked, and Arasa for pointing out a weakness to evolution.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
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Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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8/1/2014 11:25:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:22:20 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 8/1/2014 11:16:27 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Prove He didn't.

Perfect logic.

Thank you. ^_^
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/1/2014 11:26:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:19:26 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/1/2014 11:15:13 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/1/2014 6:19:36 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Google it. Nobody is gonna endlessly type in response to two lines.
Fine. I certainly won't be injured by a lack of response from you.

You won't be affected by a response from anyone. You can find dozens and dozens of websites with multiplied thousands of hours of reading time. That won't injure you either.
Begone! If you won't prove your God, you have no place here.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/1/2014 11:26:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 10:40:35 AM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 8/1/2014 10:24:08 AM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/1/2014 2:17:03 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Our future selves have become the Elohim, the Holy Family, and created themselves through the evolution of Creation from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation. It is the living Machine that creates God as our distant future selves. How do you know this is true? By studying the Pattern of prophets inspired by angels who are sent back down the time line to help guide Humanity into becoming humane beings. As that's what is basic for God and our life in the World to Come. Creation, this world is where our souls learn the lessons necessary for that World to Come. We don't know what lessons they all are, only that most involve learning about love and forgiveness. The Humanitarian Archetype is crucial for our development which is why God, the Elohim, sent in the Christ, the Messiah as Model for Humane Being development in us. Christianity is God's Plan for pacification of homo sapiens to end our animal behavior patterns that can't be carried into further civilized life.

The Christ is built within us and is triggered into activity by recognition of the Christ in the outside world. Hence the proselytization of Christianity around the globe. I bear witness to this teaching from our future selves via the angels and prophets of God.

No.
Just no.

This is their opinion, if you would like to refute an aspect of it, you should do so, but just saying "no" does nothing to further the discourse. Again you demonstrate an unwillingness to be tolerant.

I have refuted it. This was a facetious mocking. Further, it's not an "opinion," it's a spectacular claim of relation to divinity. Tolerance does not include submitting to your view of communication methodology. I'm here for entertainment purposes. You seem to take this WAY too seriously.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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8/1/2014 11:26:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Do you believe in gravity? I think you must, being all logical and everything. Guess what? There is no proof that gravity exists. Still believe in it?
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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8/1/2014 11:34:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:26:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/1/2014 11:19:26 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/1/2014 11:15:13 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/1/2014 6:19:36 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Google it. Nobody is gonna endlessly type in response to two lines.
Fine. I certainly won't be injured by a lack of response from you.

You won't be affected by a response from anyone. You can find dozens and dozens of websites with multiplied thousands of hours of reading time. That won't injure you either.
Begone! If you won't prove your God, you have no place here.

Sure thing. Nobody's ever asked such a probing and well-thought-out question in here before. I guess they haven't thought of it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/1/2014 11:45:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:26:57 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Do you believe in gravity? I think you must, being all logical and everything. Guess what? There is no proof that gravity exists. Still believe in it?

... Apples falling from trees is proof of gravity.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
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Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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8/1/2014 11:47:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:45:15 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/1/2014 11:26:57 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Do you believe in gravity? I think you must, being all logical and everything. Guess what? There is no proof that gravity exists. Still believe in it?

... Apples falling from trees is proof of gravity.

No. It isn't. I could say that the apple is part of the Earth. It falls to the ground because it's returning to it's rightful place. Earth calls to Earth. This is proof that gravity doesn't exist.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,731
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8/1/2014 12:16:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Creation by Non-choice causes disorder

A pattern that repeats itself as well as organization can only originate from one making a decision. This is also easily proven. To demonstrate so, we need a test subject. Let's use ourselves. If one wants to draw a human face in a picture, one would first have to decide on which stroke of the brush to use, decide where each feature of the face goes, it's size, dimensions, ,etc. Without doing so, it would not be possible to draw the face. A decision is made first and the drawing is based on the decision and ideas. Now if one makes a design and does not use their intelligence or choose to do it, then that means that a person is acting by chance. So what is the result of drawing a painting using no decision, judgment, or comprehension, or choice? Complete disorder. If I throw a bucket of paint on the wall, making no choice as to where the paint aligns on the paper, what are the chances that it will draw a face? Exactly. None. Not only will there be no face, but it will be complete disorder from even looking like a face. In other words, without using intelligence disorder was created. Thus we see that unintelligence and creation by chance creates disorder, or no repeating patterns, thus proving that the repeating pattern of the stars, planets, and all that exist in the universe did not happen by chance or unintelligence, but by choice. Thus proving finally that God is the originator of all creation in the universe. Thus proving finally that God is the originator of all creation in the universe.

The God of the Universe and creation is Allah and the Qur"an is the true word of Allah

"Will they not then meditate upon the Qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah they would surely have found therein much discrepancy."

"Verily, We, it is We who have sent down the Qur"an and surely we will guard it from corruption".

Here we have a test that demonstrates that there is no error in the Qur'an, showing the truthful nature of the Qur'an. If a person disagrees, then the individual can take up the challenge to find a discrepancy in the Qur"an and when the person discovers that there is no discrepancy, then the only logical conclusion that can be derived is that whomever the author of the Qur"an is, the individual is a truth teller and righteous because all of the content in the Qur"an is without error, indecency, and immorality, and it is a guidance to righteousness. The question still remains as to who is the author? The Qur"an answers this question with the following test. The Qur"an states:

"And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah if you are truthful."

Here we have a test which proves that it is not humanly possible to produce a chapter like the Qur'an and proves so by challenging all of those who doubt so to prove so by trying to produce a chapter like the Qur'an. For when trying to produce a chapter like the Qur'an, the skeptic will learn first-hand that such a thing is humanly impossible to do.

But before the a skeptic develops the common response of simply producing something in Arabic or claiming that the challenge is not valid because not being able to produce a play like Shakespeare does not mean that the play is from God so the same analogy applies to the Qur'an, let me further elaborate. The Qur'an, like any scripture, is inspiration. And like any scripture, its intent is to inspire people to follow its teaching. Thus the challenge is to produce something that is as inspirational as the Qur'an, for it is the inspiration of the Qur'an that is miraculous. And what is that miracle? The miracle is within the following:

"It is humanly impossible for a person/s to inspire enough followers to help him/her/ them conquer and rule a nation by using human-made speech/literature that goes against the likes and beliefs of those people."

This is the miracle of Muhammad. For the challenge proves that it is humanly impossible to use speech or literature that goes against the majority and is invented by a person/s, to inspire enough followers amongst them to conquer and rule a nation. The skeptic still disagrees? Then take the challenge and prove differently. Try using a speech or literature that does not agree with the likes of a majority of people that is an invention by a person/s. Then use that very same speech to inspire them to conquer a nation for you to rule and see what happens. The challenge can even be simplified by asking a skeptic to just conquer and rule the street that he or she lives on and see what happens. Yet the person will fail and fail miserably. No person will come close to achieving the challenge. Any individual, when taking the challenge, will have a first-hand eyewitness account from experience and observation that such an act is humanly impossible and that is when the person will learn the miracle of Muhammad. Why? The reason is because Muhammad used the Qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer and rule a nation in the same fashion. So since it is humanly impossible to use human-made speech or literature that goes against the likes of the masses to inspire them to follow a person/s to help conquer and rule a nation, yet Muhammad used the Qur'an to do just that, then what does that mean? That means that the Qur'an that Muhammad used is not the invention of any human but must come from a higher power and authority greater than humans, and that is Allah. Do the skeptics still disagree? Then take the challenge and prove differently. When the challengers fail, because they will, this will help to demonstrate that the Qur"an is of divine origin as proven by the scientific method itself because it provides a hands-on eyewitness account that producing something like the Qur"an is humanly impossible. If you read this, and you yourself disagree, then take the challenge and prove differently.
intellectuallyprimitive
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8/1/2014 12:26:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 4:33:42 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

I would caution you, YamaVonKarma, as this is equally dangerous ground for Theists as Atheists. For example, it would be equally rash for me to demand that you prove evolution. The problem on both sides is that both are taken from viewed evidence. I've written quite a bit about it on many of these forums, to say that both Theism and Atheism are working off of evidence that they believe to be true. However, neither group can physically prove to science's own liking that they are 100% factual. Yes, even Evolution does not meet science's own requirement, which is "Reproducible." We have been unable to recreate the macro evolution that secular science has taken upon itself to believe, just like we have been unable to recreate a seven-day creation (in defense of Christianity in particular) of the universe. The problem on both sides is that you cannot simply say that where we are is example enough, because both sides can claim that. You have to reproduce it in a laboratory setting. Both sides have this difficulty, because macro evolution takes millions of years, and creation of a universe in the way that Theism describes is impossible for man to accomplish.

In summary, neither side is able to prove to science's own standards that either belief is correct. To place the burden of proof on only one side is dangerous at the very least. Both sides must work to prove the accuracy of their theories, but in both sides, such a thing is impossible.


August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Assuming that the user is true at 15, I am impressed that he is questioning extraordinary claims rather than succumbing to them. That itself is an imperative concept that enables us to further our understanding of the world. I agree with the gist of what you are stating, however evidence should be supplied to support the claims made by those who assert that the universe was created by a god.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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8/1/2014 12:28:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:26:57 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 8/1/2014 1:42:07 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I want proof as to how a God created the universe. The bible, quran, and torah are not to be used as stand alone sources. Use them only if proven. I'm waiting.

Do you believe in gravity? I think you must, being all logical and everything. Guess what? There is no proof that gravity exists. Still believe in it?

Gravity is not perceptible via the human eye, ALBEIT gravity is demonstrable.
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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8/1/2014 12:44:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/1/2014 11:26:16 AM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/1/2014 10:40:35 AM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 8/1/2014 10:24:08 AM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/1/2014 2:17:03 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Our future selves have become the Elohim, the Holy Family, and created themselves through the evolution of Creation from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation. It is the living Machine that creates God as our distant future selves. How do you know this is true? By studying the Pattern of prophets inspired by angels who are sent back down the time line to help guide Humanity into becoming humane beings. As that's what is basic for God and our life in the World to Come. Creation, this world is where our souls learn the lessons necessary for that World to Come. We don't know what lessons they all are, only that most involve learning about love and forgiveness. The Humanitarian Archetype is crucial for our development which is why God, the Elohim, sent in the Christ, the Messiah as Model for Humane Being development in us. Christianity is God's Plan for pacification of homo sapiens to end our animal behavior patterns that can't be carried into further civilized life.

The Christ is built within us and is triggered into activity by recognition of the Christ in the outside world. Hence the proselytization of Christianity around the globe. I bear witness to this teaching from our future selves via the angels and prophets of God.

No.
Just no.

This is their opinion, if you would like to refute an aspect of it, you should do so, but just saying "no" does nothing to further the discourse. Again you demonstrate an unwillingness to be tolerant.

I have refuted it.

no, you have rejected it. You have to provide sources to refute something. You're just voicing an opinion too.

This was a facetious mocking.:

So much for that moral superiority. You shame your own cause.

Further, it's not an "opinion," it's a spectacular claim of relation to divinity.:

Which is his opinion and belief. Just because it's lofty doesn't mean it's not opinion.

Tolerance does not include submitting to your view of communication methodology.:

It does include you being tolerant,though, which you aren't.

I'm here for entertainment purposes. You seem to take this WAY too seriously.:

Says the person who likes to swear at theologians and gets enraged over being called a sinner.

Get over yourself. Get over your rage, and be a better example of anti-theism, or stfu and stop hurting our cause.

That's just my opinion, though.