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Evolution is NOT Compatible

GeoLaureate8
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3/5/2010 11:47:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've seen many on this site claim that evolution is compatible with Christianity and somehow think that Christians who accept evolution are more intelligent. It's like they get a pass just because they accept evolution as compatible. It's not even the slightest bit compatible nor plausible. It's absurd.

Let me first start off with a verse from Genesis directly contradicting evolution:

"And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them." - Genesis 2:18,19

MAN CAME BEFORE THE ANIMALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, that's just a metaphor for God creating the first self-replicating molecule that evolved into multicellular organisms, who then evolved into more complex species, and through processes of natural selection, humans arose. Wow, what a beautiful and informative metaphor!

Ok, the verse in Genesis was just using a poetic literary motif to describe how God created. What it meant to say was that God kick-started evolution and guided it's processes. You would have to DENY NATURAL SELECTION to believe that. So every Christian MUST deny natural selection whether they accept evolution or not. God replaces natural selection and instead was present at every instance of a mutation and used his 25 billion hands to manipulate the cells and DNA of each and every animal in order to eventually create man.

Why did he go through such pains to create man when he could have done it instantly (like Genesis says he does, but Genesis is wrong, it's just a metaphor) and instead, spend his eternal time doing something better.

Young Earth Creationists are NOT the crazy ones. The Christians who accept evolution are!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
resolutionsmasher
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3/6/2010 7:49:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
actually the animals came a few days before man, but you are right nonetheless. Evolution is false.
In the relationship between Obama and the rest of the U.S..... I think the U.S. is getting the short end of the hockey stick.
resolutionsmasher
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3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity. Funny thing though. We can prove that it commentates most of these historic events, like Alexander the Great, before they happen. Who woulda thunk?
In the relationship between Obama and the rest of the U.S..... I think the U.S. is getting the short end of the hockey stick.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/6/2010 10:26:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
At 3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity.

I very much doubt that, I am sure the likes of Plutarch, Caesar and Livvy were all far more accurate . In any case if it is so valid why is it not followed by Christians?

Funny thing though. We can prove that it commentates most of these historic events, like Alexander the Great, before they happen. Who woulda thunk?

No it doesn't.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/6/2010 10:29:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
At 3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity. Funny thing though. We can prove that it commentates most of these historic events, like Alexander the Great, before they happen. Who woulda thunk?

So does the Qur'an. It predicted the Romans would defeat the Persians and some other things.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/6/2010 10:54:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 10:29:55 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
At 3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity. Funny thing though. We can prove that it commentates most of these historic events, like Alexander the Great, before they happen. Who woulda thunk?

So does the Qur'an. It predicted the Romans would defeat the Persians and some other things.

You do know what year the original version was compiled don't you?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
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3/6/2010 11:07:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 10:29:55 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
At 3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity. Funny thing though. We can prove that it commentates most of these historic events, like Alexander the Great, before they happen. Who woulda thunk?

So does the Qur'an. It predicted the Romans would defeat the Persians and some other things.

The Qu'ran was written after the Roman Empire fell. That's not a prediction.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/6/2010 11:10:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:07:22 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 10:29:55 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
At 3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity. Funny thing though. We can prove that it commentates most of these historic events, like Alexander the Great, before they happen. Who woulda thunk?

So does the Qur'an. It predicted the Romans would defeat the Persians and some other things.

The Qu'ran was written after the Roman Empire fell. That's not a prediction.

Well only the western.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
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3/6/2010 11:10:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 7:49:05 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
actually the animals came a few days before man, but you are right nonetheless. Evolution is false.

According to Genesis they came on the same day.

At any rate explain the similarities, for example, the similarities between a whale fin and a human limb.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
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3/6/2010 11:12:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:10:00 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/6/2010 11:07:22 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 10:29:55 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
At 3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity. Funny thing though. We can prove that it commentates most of these historic events, like Alexander the Great, before they happen. Who woulda thunk?

So does the Qur'an. It predicted the Romans would defeat the Persians and some other things.

The Qu'ran was written after the Roman Empire fell. That's not a prediction.

Well only the western.

Yes but the east became the Byzantium empire, which wasn't Roman anymore, and fell in 1453, quite contrary to beating the Persians, they lost (Well to the Ottomans, but the point stands).
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
mattrodstrom
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3/6/2010 11:12:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:10:50 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:49:05 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
actually the animals came a few days before man, but you are right nonetheless. Evolution is false.

According to Genesis they came on the same day.

At any rate explain the similarities, for example, the similarities between a whale fin and a human limb.

The Designer, like any good engineer, sticks to what works :)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/6/2010 11:16:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:12:08 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 11:10:00 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/6/2010 11:07:22 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 10:29:55 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
At 3/5/2010 11:54:25 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is rather forgetting that the Bible no longer has any real authority with a large swathe of modern Christians, which is an equally valid criticism in itself.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity. Funny thing though. We can prove that it commentates most of these historic events, like Alexander the Great, before they happen. Who woulda thunk?

So does the Qur'an. It predicted the Romans would defeat the Persians and some other things.

The Qu'ran was written after the Roman Empire fell. That's not a prediction.

Well only the western.

Yes but the east became the Byzantium empire, which wasn't Roman anymore,

Which was referred to as the Eastern Roman Empire, or just the Roman Empire, the population of Constantinople called themselves Roman, they launched wars to regain their lost western territory and regarded themselves as heirs to the defunct western throne.

and fell in 1453, quite contrary to beating the Persians, they lost (Well to the Ottomans, but the point stands).

Yes but I think that between 600 and something and 1453 they had defeated the Persians on several occaisions, but yes they ultimately lost to the Turks.

In any case no one has bothered to present or date the passage in question!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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3/6/2010 11:17:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:12:47 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/6/2010 11:10:50 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:49:05 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
actually the animals came a few days before man, but you are right nonetheless. Evolution is false.

According to Genesis they came on the same day.

At any rate explain the similarities, for example, the similarities between a whale fin and a human limb.

The Designer, like any good engineer, sticks to what works :)

Ah, but they were made on the same day! You can't observe how well something works, regardless of how divine you are.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
mattrodstrom
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3/6/2010 11:21:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:17:29 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 11:12:47 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/6/2010 11:10:50 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:49:05 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
actually the animals came a few days before man, but you are right nonetheless. Evolution is false.

According to Genesis they came on the same day.

At any rate explain the similarities, for example, the similarities between a whale fin and a human limb.

The Designer, like any good engineer, sticks to what works :)

Ah, but they were made on the same day! You can't observe how well something works, regardless of how divine you are.

God's (according to any semi-intelligent christian philosophy) outside of time; "day" means squat.

He is in constant access to all times.
And...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/6/2010 12:36:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 7:49:05 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
actually the animals came a few days before man,

Apparently you didn't read my post.

"And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them." - Genesis 2:18,19

but you are right nonetheless. Evolution is false.

I never said that evolution is false. I said it's incompatible with Christianity.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mongeese
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3/6/2010 1:00:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:10:50 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/6/2010 7:49:05 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
actually the animals came a few days before man, but you are right nonetheless. Evolution is false.

According to Genesis they came on the same day.

At any rate explain the similarities, for example, the similarities between a whale fin and a human limb.

I'll just point to modern computer science. Different classes of objects inherit attributes and methods from previous methods. Sometimes, an inherited attribute is no longer necessary, but it's still there.
http://java.sun.com...
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/6/2010 1:45:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:07:22 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
The Qu'ran was written after the Roman Empire fell. That's not a prediction.

No, no. I should have been more specific, the Byzantine empire. xD Here's some info. Keep in mind I'm copying and pasting it from another source as I feel lazy atm.

"2- The Romans have been defeated.
3- In the lowest part of the earth. But after defeat they will soon be victorious.
4- Between three or nine years. God's is the imperative first and last. On that day the believers will rejoice.

*Chapter 30-"The Romans", Verses 2-4 *
_ _ _ _ _

At the time of the descent of the Quran, the Romans were practicing Christianity while the Persians were Zoroastrians. The Muslim population was grieved to hear that it was the Persians who had won the war against the Romans since Christians were monotheists. The victory of the Zoroastrians against the believers baffled the Muslims. The Quran predicted that the Romans (Byzantium) would soon become victorious and that the believers would rejoice.

The expression "beda seneen" in verse 4 refers to the numbers ranging from three to nine. The number of followers of Muhammad continued to increase. Had this statement of the Quran proved to be wrong, the confidence of the followers in Muhammad would have been shaken and the number of apostates would have grown. For a person not firmly convinced that the Quran was the revelation of God, such a prediction would be fatal for the system. If such a prediction were to prove false, it would have lost more of its authority than it would have gained had it turned out to be true. But it was God who revealed the Quran. So there was no risk. Thus the confidence of the followers increased even more.

Yes, self-confidence, daring and categorical prediction! This is either a proof of wisdom or the foolhardiness of the ignorant. The result indicates which was which. Those who doubt that this was not a revelation from God may conclude that it was guesswork, without considering the consequences that would put everything in danger. Something difficult was being heralded. A nation that had lost its cause was promised a triumph in a subsequent conflict.

Had this prediction turned out to be false, the believers might have lost faith and given trump cards to the hands of the opponents of the faithful. None of the accusations by unbelievers of Muhammad attributing to him insanity, necromancy and opportunism- came to be true as they failed to belie his words. The unbelievers were badly in need of such accusations. It was certainly more difficult to attack the Prophet and his followers with daggers drawn.
If the people who attributed partners to God were able to come forth with such evidence, they would prefer to use it rather than wage wars. So all the predictions of the Quran came true and no objections could ever be raised by the unbelievers. Nevertheless, there have always been and will be people who turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the revelations of the Quran. This did not prevent the Quran from eventually becoming the sovereign power of the region under the domination of the Prophet during his lifetime.

Students of Byzantine (Roman) history should know that the Byzantine Empire suffered one of its gravest defeats in the 7th century at the time of the descent of the Quran. Although the Byzantines solved their problems in the coming years, during that time period, one of the main reasons for their serious downturn was the problem that the Persians generated.

Historical sources approve the Quranic information. It was thought that, since the Byzantines had suffered such a defeat, they could no longer recover. Records speak of Heraclius's collecting and melting in a crucible all the gold and silver of the churches to meet the expenses of the army. The Persians had already occupied Mesopotamia, Cilicia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Armenia, all places that had once been under the domination of the Byzantines. In such a time of despair, the Quran predicted that the Byzantines would triumph within three to nine years. Historical records add that because of this statement the Prophet and his followers were held in derision, as there was little hope of the realization of this prediction coming true.

The Quran was to confirm this like all others. Byzantium won a victory over the Persians somewhere near the ruins of Nineveh in 627 AD, about nine years after the revelation of the prophecy. The Persians signed a treaty, according to which they turned over the territories they had occupied."
Volkov
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3/6/2010 1:55:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 7:51:09 AM, resolutionsmasher wrote:
Whether people like it or not, the Bible is the most historically correct piece of literature in antiquity.

What?

Half the Bible's stories are completely falsified and have no proof in the historical record. If you actually followed archaeological finds in the Levant, you'd find out that all those mass murders never happened; no Jew ever wandered 40 years in the desert; and half the other stories in there have no basis in reality.

I'll give you the fact that there is a lot of history in the Bible that seems to make sense, but its far from the "most historically correct piece of literature."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/6/2010 10:51:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 11:21:20 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
God's (according to any semi-intelligent christian philosophy) outside of time; "day" means squat.

I don't think that's what they mean when they say that. They say that he is outside the fabric of space-time, not that he actually abides by a different clock. It takes 24 hours for the earth to make one rotation, from our perspective and God's. He may be eternal, and that may seem like 1 second to him, but it's still 24 hours.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
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3/6/2010 10:58:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/6/2010 10:51:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/6/2010 11:21:20 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
God's (according to any semi-intelligent christian philosophy) outside of time; "day" means squat.

I don't think that's what they mean when they say that. They say that he is outside the fabric of space-time, not that he actually abides by a different clock. It takes 24 hours for the earth to make one rotation, from our perspective and God's. He may be eternal, and that may seem like 1 second to him, but it's still 24 hours.

I was responding to panda's suggestion that a "day" wasn't long enough for god to know if his design was a 'good' one.

God wouldn't be limited to observing/judging it in that day, he has equal access to all times.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
banker
Posts: 1,370
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3/7/2010 1:45:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Its funny how we have now athiests quoting the bible..!
Why you athiests now got to the bible.?
You mised dotc.? Or you can't wait to have a quoting from mizra,on the quoran.?
Come on now get real.!! Whom are you trying to fool its not april now.!!
I am tired to give you all the reasons you athiests give us why your against using the bible in a argument..! But.!! However I do like you to remember one thing from the bible your never using ..! "Don't lie" ..!!
Now some things in the bible are not made to be used as its writen for example ..! You athiests who are cruel enough to love animels so much.! That it cuasing you to be indifferent to humen suffering and death ..!! That's why your against animal testing.!! Even if it will help find a cure for men kind..!! However the bible is teaching us compation ..! And that's what it suggest to secrifice animals to god ..! God is the intaligent source and trough using animal testing we evolution energy and using the animal to help god cure the sick...!!!

Now since athists are taking time away from their major science fictions like global warming and other intelactual disasters ,they started to study the bible.!! And their not doing a batter job then when they massured the ice caps and search for atlantis...!!
You idiots try to become the chossen race.? Why are you now twisting your whole agenda to tell us what we believe.? Is it a superiarity complex you strugle with.? Did you finish your research.? Are you already sure from which monkey your coming from.?
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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3/7/2010 3:16:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/7/2010 1:45:50 AM, banker wrote:
Its funny how we have now athiests quoting the bible..!
Why you athiests now got to the bible.?
You mised dotc.? Or you can't wait to have a quoting from mizra,on the quoran.?
Come on now get real.!! Whom are you trying to fool its not april now.!!
I am tired to give you all the reasons you athiests give us why your against using the bible in a argument..! But.!! However I do like you to remember one thing from the bible your never using ..! "Don't lie" ..!!
Now some things in the bible are not made to be used as its writen for example ..! You athiests who are cruel enough to love animels so much.! That it cuasing you to be indifferent to humen suffering and death ..!! That's why your against animal testing.!! Even if it will help find a cure for men kind..!! However the bible is teaching us compation ..! And that's what it suggest to secrifice animals to god ..! God is the intaligent source and trough using animal testing we evolution energy and using the animal to help god cure the sick...!!!

Now since athists are taking time away from their major science fictions like global warming and other intelactual disasters ,they started to study the bible.!! And their not doing a batter job then when they massured the ice caps and search for atlantis...!!
You idiots try to become the chossen race.? Why are you now twisting your whole agenda to tell us what we believe.? Is it a superiarity complex you strugle with.? Did you finish your research.? Are you already sure from which monkey your coming from.?

We are all dumber for having read this nonsense, thank you baunkaR (just trying to type in his language) Spell check is free.
I cannot speak for atheists, but educated people read the Bible. We read it because it is an important piece. As an educated person, I do not sit around with the Bible and decide whether scientific theories work with the text. I find the whole process silly. I do not know the first thing God did or did not do in reference to gravity, cell theory, theory of evolution, etc. I do know that scripture is much different than the wingnuts think it is and frankly, many of the fallacies of "Biblical literalism", a semi-modern movement, have been presented in texts since the Bible was called authoritative by political men putting it together. Modern science is not comparable with ignorance, simple but since when did the Bible replace God? Reread those commandments; they are important.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
Kinesis
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3/7/2010 3:59:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/5/2010 11:47:32 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I've seen many on this site claim that evolution is compatible with Christianity and somehow think that Christians who accept evolution are more intelligent. It's like they get a pass just because they accept evolution as compatible. It's not even the slightest bit compatible nor plausible. It's absurd.

Let me first start off with a verse from Genesis directly contradicting evolution:

"And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them." - Genesis 2:18,19

MAN CAME BEFORE THE ANIMALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, that's just a metaphor for God creating the first self-replicating molecule that evolved into multicellular organisms, who then evolved into more complex species, and through processes of natural selection, humans arose. Wow, what a beautiful and informative metaphor!

Ok, the verse in Genesis was just using a poetic literary motif to describe how God created. What it meant to say was that God kick-started evolution and guided it's processes. You would have to DENY NATURAL SELECTION to believe that. So every Christian MUST deny natural selection whether they accept evolution or not. God replaces natural selection and instead was present at every instance of a mutation and used his 25 billion hands to manipulate the cells and DNA of each and every animal in order to eventually create man.

Why did he go through such pains to create man when he could have done it instantly (like Genesis says he does, but Genesis is wrong, it's just a metaphor) and instead, spend his eternal time doing something better.

Young Earth Creationists are NOT the crazy ones. The Christians who accept evolution are!

Who cares? We should persuade them that it is, thus pushing them further into a weak liberal faith and ripening them for unbelief. :)
popculturepooka
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3/7/2010 11:00:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/5/2010 11:47:32 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I've seen many on this site claim that evolution is compatible with Christianity and somehow think that Christians who accept evolution are more intelligent. It's like they get a pass just because they accept evolution as compatible. It's not even the slightest bit compatible nor plausible. It's absurd.

Lol, okay, Geo.

"And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them." - Genesis 2:18,19

MAN CAME BEFORE THE ANIMALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, wait, I guess you forgot to read the preceding passages. Like, you know, a lot of them. Are you serious here?

"20 And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26"

Note: this is BEFORE MAN.

Oh wait, that's just a metaphor for God creating the first self-replicating molecule that evolved into multicellular organisms, who then evolved into more complex species, and through processes of natural selection, humans arose. Wow, what a beautiful and informative metaphor!

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If God can do anything logically possible I don't see how that is implausible.

Ok, the verse in Genesis was just using a poetic literary motif to describe how God created. What it meant to say was that God kick-started evolution and guided it's processes. You would have to DENY NATURAL SELECTION to believe that. So every Christian MUST deny natural selection whether they accept evolution or not. God replaces natural selection and instead was present at every instance of a mutation and used his 25 billion hands to manipulate the cells and DNA of each and every animal in order to eventually create man.

No, not really. There are Christians who deny that God is/was present at every single junction or action - that would include natural selection. And argue against the view of "omniderigence" as Vox Day has called it. Which is "...the infinite use of unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-controlling; all-dictating." (Day, TIA, pg 276)

Why did he go through such pains to create man when he could have done it instantly (like Genesis says he does, but Genesis is wrong, it's just a metaphor) and instead, spend his eternal time doing something better.

I don't know. If he has "eternal time" (which goes against many peoples' conception of God - they view him as atemporal) why should it matter that he created humans one way or another?

Young Earth Creationists are NOT the crazy ones. The Christians who accept evolution are!

Maybe. But you haven't shown it to be so.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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popculturepooka
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3/7/2010 11:02:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/7/2010 3:59:26 AM, Kinesis wrote:
Who cares? We should persuade them that it is, thus pushing them further into a weak liberal faith and ripening them for unbelief. :)

My "weak liberal faith" is going to take a lot more argumentation than that to be divested. :D
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Floid
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3/7/2010 11:08:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Designer, like any good engineer, sticks to what works :)

And engineers do that because of limited time, resources, and intellect. None of these three things are limitations for the "Designer", so that argument doesn't work.
GeoLaureate8
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3/7/2010 11:30:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/7/2010 11:00:36 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Oh, wait, I guess you forgot to read the preceding passages. Like, you know, a lot of them. Are you serious here?

"20 And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26"

Note: this is BEFORE MAN.

So the passages contradict? What a surprise, lol. Anyways, fair enough. The animals may have came first (which verse is correct?), but the verse that you posted clearly states "God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves." This clearly and directly contradicts the theory of evolution because it is saying that God created animals rather than kick-starting the process of evolution.

Also,

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If God can do anything logically possible I don't see how that is implausible.

Sure, maybe he did, but that's NOT what Genesis says.

No, not really. There are Christians who deny that God is/was present at every single junction or action - that would include natural selection. And argue against the view of "omniderigence" as Vox Day has called it. Which is "...the infinite use of unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-controlling; all-dictating." (Day, TIA, pg 276)

That may be true, but so far I've only seen Christians say that evolution is a guided process because they still want to give God the credit for creating. If you deny that he guided it, you would have to deny that he personally created man.

Maybe. But you haven't shown it to be so.

I believe I have gotten close, however I will provide an irrefutable argument that dismantles the Christian evolutionists completely.

Christianity says: In the beginning, God created man.

Evolution says: In the beginning was the first self-replicating molecule. In it's final stages, man arose last.
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mattrodstrom
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3/7/2010 6:04:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Geo, If god's all knowing... then he need act only once to set it all in motion..

In that one action of birthing the Universe god knowingly caused all of it's manifestations.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
popculturepooka
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3/7/2010 6:28:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/7/2010 11:30:43 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

So the passages contradict? What a surprise, lol. Anyways, fair enough. The animals may have came first (which verse is correct?), but the verse that you posted clearly states "God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves." This clearly and directly contradicts the theory of evolution because it is saying that God created animals rather than kick-starting the process of evolution.

No, they don't. Is it news to you that there are different creation accounts in Genesis emphasizing different things? They were written for different purposes. Genesis 1 is about the order of creation and Genesis 2 is focusing on certain aspects of it (like man).

Besides the "formed" (yatsar) in Genesis 2:18-19 can easily be translated as <strong had formed as the Old Testament scholars Keil and Delitzsch explain: "our modern style for expressing the same thought [which the Holy Spirit via Moses intended to communicate—EL] would be simply this: ‘God brought to Adam the beasts which He had formed'. " So, there is no contradiction.

And, again, did you miss the preceding passages and how they talk about the earth/seas bringing forth life? How is that any contradiction with saying God created life ultimately?

Additionally, you're begging the question, because evolution is as compatible with atheism as it is with theism. If you assume that evolutionary theory has, inbuilt in it, the thesis that no supernatural entities were involved than of course it would be incompatible with Christianity. But it does not.

That may be true, but so far I've only seen Christians say that evolution is a guided process because they still want to give God the credit for creating. If you deny that he guided it, you would have to deny that he personally created man.

Really? Can you show me examples of where a Christian has claimed that at every mutation in the process leading up to the creation of man God made sure the beneficial ones prevailed? It's still possible to believe that God guided evolution without believing that God had to micro-manage every single instance of natural selection.

I believe I have gotten close, however I will provide an irrefutable argument that dismantles the Christian evolutionists completely.

Christianity says: In the beginning, God created man.

Evolution says: In the beginning was the first self-replicating molecule. In it's final stages, man arose last.

Of course, the Bible doesn't specify how long the beginning was or by what process God created man. All Genesis 1 says is that God created man in his own image.

Man is one of the last stages in the Biblical creation account, too, so...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!