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Jesus claimed to be God?

POPOO5560
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8/6/2014 10:33:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just moved here because too many stuff involving there.... anyway please if someone can give a verse from the Bible any version of the Bible where Jesus said: IM GOD or WORSHIP ME...

At 8/6/2014 10:11:33 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, "I am God."

Thanks you very much because he didnt claim to be, and this is funny because all the versions of the bibles, and the bible manuscripts (20.000+, 5000 in greek) all are differing not one are identical, with all the changes people wrote not one says Jesus claim to be God.

That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus" words in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." We need only to look at the Jews" reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: "You, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming"deity. When Jesus declared, "I and the Father are one," He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence.

Here my answer to that in the previus forum to John 10:30 where it says "i and my father are one" context:

start from verse 23 - it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father"s name, these testify of Me.

this is (1) false charge - jews say he didnt explain himself plainly he is the Christ, but Jesus did explain himself.

verse 26 - 30
"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father"s hand. 30"I and the Father are one."

They are one in this no one can snatch them out of their hand, in porpuse in faith they are one. but the jews picked up stones to stone him because they though he is claiming to be God:

verses 30 - 33
The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

this is the second (2) false charge, the jews accusing Jesus claiming to be God. what Jesus says to that?? if he was a God he would say "yes im God" lets see what Jesus says:

verse - 34
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law (Torah/OT): - "I SAID, YOU ARE GODS"? (Psalm 82:6) 35"If he ("he" means GOD. NOT JESUS, JESUS DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GOD AND HIMSILF)!! called them gods, to whom the word of God came (THE JEWS) and the Scripture cannot be broken (MEANING YOU CANT CONTRADICT ME), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, "I am the Son of God?

here Jesus says OTHERS CALL "GODS" and you finding fault with me when i only say " am the Son of God"?? which is nothing! in the bible prophets called "GOD" and others "son of god", so we see clearly Jesus dismiss their charges. i dont know why everybody keep qouting this verses without context. oh yeah to suit their convenience.

John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth " before Abraham was born, I am!" Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John 8:58
58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

how many people existed before Abraham? The Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there. its funny how christains saying that is the same what God tell in the Old testment "im what im" meaning this is his name. that ridiculous the Hebrew there - says i will be what ever i will be. (i know hebrew yeah...) even its not saying "im" its a different word.

The jew want to kill him? through out the Bible the jews looking for trouble everytime the jews trying to find a trouble with Jesus. how many time Jesus condemn them for that? MANY MANY times, anything Jesus says they misunderstood. if you want examples i will give you plenty.

Jesus says:
" they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." Jesus many time speaks in metaphorical way but the jews ALLWAYS taking anything literally.
(and you know this talking about undersranding not physical seeing or hearing but the problem is the jews..)
And we take what Jesus says not the jews who trying to find a fault with him in every small matter.

John reiterates the concept of Jesus" deity: "The Word [Jesus] was God" and "the Word became flesh" (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org...

First this is not Jesus talking its John, secondly John wrote his theological ideas into the text, the 3 Gospels Mattew Luke and Mark wriiten before John and examining the 4 Gospels, the earlier the Gospel in date, the position of Jesus is more human going to the last Gosple which is John wirte many years after the 3 Gospels, trying to potray Jesus in the begining as a God, so you can see the evolution taken place, you dont need to be a doctore of divinity to see these things.
Never fart near dog
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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9/1/2014 3:50:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 10:33:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

anyway please if someone can give a verse from the Bible any version of the Bible where Jesus said: IM GOD or WORSHIP ME...

At 8/6/2014 10:11:33 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, "I am God."

Thanks you very much because he didnt claim to be, and this is funny because all the versions of the bibles, and the bible manuscripts (20.000+, 5000 in greek) all are differing not one are identical, with all the changes people wrote not one says Jesus claim to be God.

That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God.

Thank you good Doctor O. The main claim by POPOO5560 is that if Jesus didn't say, "I am God", then He did not claim to be God. This is of course, nonsense, as there are more ways to convey the idea that He was God than just that sentence alone. Jesus made the claim repeatedly in a much more profound way. Anyone can SAY, "I am God". (BoG says it all the time) Jesus also SHOWED that He was God.

Take for example Jesus" words in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." We need only to look at the Jews" reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: "You, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming"deity. When Jesus declared, "I and the Father are one," He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence.

John reiterates the concept of Jesus" deity: "The Word [Jesus] was God" and "the Word became flesh" (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org...

First this is not Jesus talking its John, secondly John wrote his theological ideas into the text, the 3 Gospels Mattew Luke and Mark wriiten before John and examining the 4 Gospels, the earlier the Gospel in date, the position of Jesus is more human going to the last Gosple which is John wirte many years after the 3 Gospels, trying to potray Jesus in the begining as a God, so you can see the evolution taken place, you dont need to be a doctore of divinity to see these things.

No, you only need bias and an incomplete knowledge of Scripture to "see" these things.

Luk 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Jesus speaking, showing two of His disciples how the entire OT is talking about Him.

Jhn 5:46 - For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Jesus speaking. Saying that Moses wrote of Him. But we know that Moses wrote only of God!

Rev 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Jesus speaking, calling Himself the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, He who is, was, and is to come. Words used elsewhere by God to describe Himself.

Jhn 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Jesus speaking, referring to the OT. The OT speaks of God and calls God the ONLY Savior. Jesus Himself says the OT testifies of Him.

Luk 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 - Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Jesus speaking, showing His 11 disciples how the Torah, all the prophets, and Psalms refer to Him.

POPOO5560 needs his understanding opened that he might understand the scriptures. But that pesky love of the truth problem gets in the way....

Jhn 8:45 - ....because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
Jhn 8:46 - "Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
Jhn 8:47 - "He who is of God hears God"s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."

2Th 2:5 - Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:9 - The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 - and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Jesus accepted worship, and Claimed authority to forgave sin. The Bible itself calls Jesus God, using the actual word God in the old AND new testaments. Jesus is called God to His face by people speaking to Him.

Anyone telling you that The Bible does not call Jesus God is either unfamiliar with the Bible or has an unstated agenda. A person is free to refuse to believe what the Bible says, but cannot change what the Bible clearly says. Jesus was always, is always, and will always be, God. And in my opinion, the OT says it just as emphatically as the NT.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/1/2014 4:53:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus was determined to be God by a vote of 316 to 2, by the Council of Nicaea. Up to that time, various Christian sects held various beliefs about who/what Jesus was. Some thought he was just a human selected by God to spread a message. Some believed he was a subordinate god to God, others indeed believed him to be God. Part of what different sects believed depended upon the specific manuscripts they read and believed to be the word of God. Of the canonized gospels, only "John" claims that Jesus is God. After the Council of Nicaea, it became a requirement of Christianity to believe that Jesus is God.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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9/1/2014 4:57:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 10:33:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Just moved here because too many stuff involving there.... anyway please if someone can give a verse from the Bible any version of the Bible where Jesus said: IM GOD or WORSHIP ME...

At 8/6/2014 10:11:33 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, "I am God."

Thanks you very much because he didnt claim to be, and this is funny because all the versions of the bibles, and the bible manuscripts (20.000+, 5000 in greek) all are differing not one are identical, with all the changes people wrote not one says Jesus claim to be God.

That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus" words in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." We need only to look at the Jews" reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: "You, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming"deity. When Jesus declared, "I and the Father are one," He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence.

Here my answer to that in the previus forum to John 10:30 where it says "i and my father are one" context:

start from verse 23 - it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father"s name, these testify of Me.

this is (1) false charge - jews say he didnt explain himself plainly he is the Christ, but Jesus did explain himself.

verse 26 - 30
"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father"s hand. 30"I and the Father are one."

They are one in this no one can snatch them out of their hand, in porpuse in faith they are one. but the jews picked up stones to stone him because they though he is claiming to be God:

verses 30 - 33
The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

this is the second (2) false charge, the jews accusing Jesus claiming to be God. what Jesus says to that?? if he was a God he would say "yes im God" lets see what Jesus says:

verse - 34
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law (Torah/OT): - "I SAID, YOU ARE GODS"? (Psalm 82:6) 35"If he ("he" means GOD. NOT JESUS, JESUS DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GOD AND HIMSILF)!! called them gods, to whom the word of God came (THE JEWS) and the Scripture cannot be broken (MEANING YOU CANT CONTRADICT ME), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, "I am the Son of God?

here Jesus says OTHERS CALL "GODS" and you finding fault with me when i only say " am the Son of God"?? which is nothing! in the bible prophets called "GOD" and others "son of god", so we see clearly Jesus dismiss their charges. i dont know why everybody keep qouting this verses without context. oh yeah to suit their convenience.

John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth " before Abraham was born, I am!" Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John 8:58
58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

how many people existed before Abraham? The Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there.

Hone in on the statement,

"Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there."

Now that is patently absurd because it reduces the statement of Jesus to meaningless. He was just there "in the knowledge of God", so you say, which has the unfortunate effect of putting you on par with Jesus, even according to your own reasoning.

In other words, Jesus uttered a statement which meant pretty much nothing! And what was the response to His statement which meant nothing? Next verse: "They took up stones therefore to cast at him." That's an odd response, eh?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,481
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9/1/2014 4:57:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 3:50:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:

No, you only need bias and an incomplete knowledge of Scripture to "see" these things.

Luk 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Jesus speaking, showing two of His disciples how the entire OT is talking about Him.

This verse talking about prophecies of Christ not God, so what? the jews never believed in Christ coming as a God to earth.

Jhn 5:46 - For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Jesus speaking. Saying that Moses wrote of Him. But we know that Moses wrote only of God!

Nonsense, again its about prophecies of Jesus as Christ not God. you reading something and understanding something else.

Rev 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Jesus speaking, calling Himself the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, He who is, was, and is to come. Words used elsewhere by God to describe Himself.

First of all Rev is not part of the life of Jesus on earth the 4 Gospels are (which are written by anonymous persons but fot the sake of argument lets ignore it), Jesus himself didnt say this words somebody else ascribing it to him who saw it in a dream. look simple english give me saying of Jesus himself.

Jhn 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Jesus speaking, referring to the OT. The OT speaks of God and calls God the ONLY Savior. Jesus Himself says the OT testifies of Him.

you amazing me for you interpretations, what this verse has to do with Jesus being God . only savior? every prophet was the savior who guide people to the right path of their times, who was the savior in the time of Moses? it was jesus or Moses? lol.


Luk 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 - Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Jesus speaking, showing His 11 disciples how the Torah, all the prophets, and Psalms refer to Him.

Prophecies.... we muslims also believe in Jesus so what????? prophecies about christ not God. do you know whats the different between christ and God? i think not.


POPOO5560 needs his understanding opened that he might understand the scriptures. But that pesky love of the truth problem gets in the way....

Dude you are prejudice of Jesus being God but there is no such thing and you cant prove it.


Jhn 8:45 - ....because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
Jhn 8:46 - "Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
Jhn 8:47 - "He who is of God hears God"s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."

Lol He who is of God hears God"s words;
"of" means something else of God himself.


2Th 2:5 - Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:9 - The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 - and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

You are not answering the questions you are preaching.


Jesus accepted worship,

Prophet Deniel accepted worship too, so make Deniel as God himself.

and Claimed authority to forgave sin.

Mat 28:18 - Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

God gave him the authority for forgive its is not on his own power doing so he says -
John 5:30 - By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

this verse is the knockout punch. by himslef he cat do nothing, and he seek not to please himslef but him who sent him that is God. boom.

The Bible itself calls Jesus God, using the actual word God in the old

Please where OT says Jesus is God its easy to talk.

AND new testaments. Jesus is called God to His face by people speaking to Him.

Give verses people saying to him you are God, actually when the Jew accused him of claiming to be a God (john 10:30-5), Jesus rebuked them showing he is not God.


Anyone telling you that The Bible does not call Jesus God is either unfamiliar with the Bible or has an unstated agenda. A person is free to refuse to believe what the Bible says, but cannot change what the Bible clearly says. Jesus was always, is always, and will always be, God. And in my opinion, the OT says it just as emphatically as the NT.

Yeah sure and you cant give us 1 verse of Jesus saying that. good job.
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POPOO5560
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9/1/2014 5:07:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 4:57:39 AM, annanicole wrote:
Hone in on the statement,

"Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there."

Now that is patently absurd because it reduces the statement of Jesus to meaningless. He was just there "in the knowledge of God", so you say, which has the unfortunate effect of putting you on par with Jesus, even according to your own reasoning.

In other words, Jesus uttered a statement which meant pretty much nothing! And what was the response to His statement which meant nothing? Next verse: "They took up stones therefore to cast at him." That's an odd response, eh?

The jews persecuted Jesus in multiple occasions becuase they always tried to find a trouble with Jesus. so what i cant understand, and Jesus himself condemned them many many times am i right? please read again john 10:23 to verse 35. why when they blamed Jesus claiming to be a God, Jesus rebuked them ha?? you tell me if he was a God whats the problem he would say "YES IM GOD OR YOU ARE RIGHT WHAT CAN I SAY" but the matter is he didnt say that, so what you say about the occasion in john 10:30???
Never fart near dog
annanicole
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9/1/2014 5:15:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 5:07:45 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 4:57:39 AM, annanicole wrote:
Hone in on the statement,

"Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there."

Now that is patently absurd because it reduces the statement of Jesus to meaningless. He was just there "in the knowledge of God", so you say, which has the unfortunate effect of putting you on par with Jesus, even according to your own reasoning.

In other words, Jesus uttered a statement which meant pretty much nothing! And what was the response to His statement which meant nothing? Next verse: "They took up stones therefore to cast at him." That's an odd response, eh?

The jews persecuted Jesus in multiple occasions becuase they always tried to find a trouble with Jesus. so what i cant understand, and Jesus himself condemned them many many times am i right? please read again john 10:23 to verse 35. why when they blamed Jesus claiming to be a God, Jesus rebuked them ha?? you tell me if he was a God whats the problem he would say "YES IM GOD OR YOU ARE RIGHT WHAT CAN I SAY" but the matter is he didnt say that, so what you say about the occasion in john 10:30???

You can quibble til the cow jumps over the moon, but by your own admission your interpretation of John 8: 58 reduces the Lord's statement to complete meaninglessness, a truism. "Before Abraham was, I existed in the mind of God just as you did" would not warrant stoning. However, saying "I literally existed prior to Father Abraham would warrant such an action."

You can spend a lifetime, if you want, asking people, "Why didn't Jesus say this?" or "Why didn't Jesus do that?" I could ask a hundred similar questions to no effect. I'm simply saying that the twist you've added to John 8: 58 destroys the meaning of the statement. It reduces it to a statement of what every Jew already knew. And it's not what He said. So you need to come up with something else.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,481
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9/1/2014 5:59:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 5:15:23 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/1/2014 5:07:45 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 4:57:39 AM, annanicole wrote:
Hone in on the statement,

"Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there."

Now that is patently absurd because it reduces the statement of Jesus to meaningless. He was just there "in the knowledge of God", so you say, which has the unfortunate effect of putting you on par with Jesus, even according to your own reasoning.

In other words, Jesus uttered a statement which meant pretty much nothing! And what was the response to His statement which meant nothing? Next verse: "They took up stones therefore to cast at him." That's an odd response, eh?

The jews persecuted Jesus in multiple occasions becuase they always tried to find a trouble with Jesus. so what i cant understand, and Jesus himself condemned them many many times am i right? please read again john 10:23 to verse 35. why when they blamed Jesus claiming to be a God, Jesus rebuked them ha?? you tell me if he was a God whats the problem he would say "YES IM GOD OR YOU ARE RIGHT WHAT CAN I SAY" but the matter is he didnt say that, so what you say about the occasion in john 10:30???

You can quibble til the cow jumps over the moon, but by your own admission your interpretation of John 8: 58 reduces the Lord's statement to complete meaninglessness, a truism. "Before Abraham was, I existed in the mind of God just as you did" would not warrant stoning. However, saying "I literally existed prior to Father Abraham would warrant such an action."

You can spend a lifetime, if you want, asking people, "Why didn't Jesus say this?" or "Why didn't Jesus do that?" I could ask a hundred similar questions to no effect. I'm simply saying that the twist you've added to John 8: 58 destroys the meaning of the statement. It reduces it to a statement of what every Jew already knew. And it's not what He said. So you need to come up with something else.

Im not saying its meaningless, its open to multiple interpretations so you saying Jesus claim to be "God" because the jews thought that way, i coming back by the same accusation in john 10:30 when he said "i and my father are one" the jews took it blasphemy because they thought he is claiming to be God, but Jesus rebuked them!! why you forget what Jesus said and take the jews instead? and God made Jeremiah a prophet before he got into the world no?? how is that? he is God also no?

the problem with you christain Jesus says "the father", you say "Jesus". Jesus says God is the father, you say Jesus is God....
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annanicole
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9/1/2014 6:03:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 5:59:56 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 5:15:23 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/1/2014 5:07:45 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 4:57:39 AM, annanicole wrote:
Hone in on the statement,

"Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there."

Now that is patently absurd because it reduces the statement of Jesus to meaningless. He was just there "in the knowledge of God", so you say, which has the unfortunate effect of putting you on par with Jesus, even according to your own reasoning.

In other words, Jesus uttered a statement which meant pretty much nothing! And what was the response to His statement which meant nothing? Next verse: "They took up stones therefore to cast at him." That's an odd response, eh?

The jews persecuted Jesus in multiple occasions becuase they always tried to find a trouble with Jesus. so what i cant understand, and Jesus himself condemned them many many times am i right? please read again john 10:23 to verse 35. why when they blamed Jesus claiming to be a God, Jesus rebuked them ha?? you tell me if he was a God whats the problem he would say "YES IM GOD OR YOU ARE RIGHT WHAT CAN I SAY" but the matter is he didnt say that, so what you say about the occasion in john 10:30???

You can quibble til the cow jumps over the moon, but by your own admission your interpretation of John 8: 58 reduces the Lord's statement to complete meaninglessness, a truism. "Before Abraham was, I existed in the mind of God just as you did" would not warrant stoning. However, saying "I literally existed prior to Father Abraham would warrant such an action."

You can spend a lifetime, if you want, asking people, "Why didn't Jesus say this?" or "Why didn't Jesus do that?" I could ask a hundred similar questions to no effect. I'm simply saying that the twist you've added to John 8: 58 destroys the meaning of the statement. It reduces it to a statement of what every Jew already knew. And it's not what He said. So you need to come up with something else.

Im not saying its meaningless, its open to multiple interpretations so you saying Jesus claim to be "God" because the jews thought that way, i coming back by the same accusation in john 10:30 when he said "i and my father are one" the jews took it blasphemy because they thought he is claiming to be God, but Jesus rebuked them!! why you forget what Jesus said and take the jews instead? and God made Jeremiah a prophet before he got into the world no?? how is that? he is God also no?

the problem with you christain Jesus says "the father", you say "Jesus". Jesus says God is the father, you say Jesus is God....

Ummm .......... ok
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
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9/1/2014 8:26:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 10:33:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Just moved here because too many stuff involving there.... anyway please if someone can give a verse from the Bible any version of the Bible where Jesus said: IM GOD or WORSHIP ME...

At 8/6/2014 10:11:33 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, "I am God."

Thanks you very much because he didnt claim to be, and this is funny because all the versions of the bibles, and the bible manuscripts (20.000+, 5000 in greek) all are differing not one are identical, with all the changes people wrote not one says Jesus claim to be God.

That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus" words in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." We need only to look at the Jews" reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: "You, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming"deity. When Jesus declared, "I and the Father are one," He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence.

Here my answer to that in the previus forum to John 10:30 where it says "i and my father are one" context:

start from verse 23 - it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father"s name, these testify of Me.

this is (1) false charge - jews say he didnt explain himself plainly he is the Christ, but Jesus did explain himself.

verse 26 - 30
"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father"s hand. 30"I and the Father are one."

They are one in this no one can snatch them out of their hand, in porpuse in faith they are one. but the jews picked up stones to stone him because they though he is claiming to be God:

verses 30 - 33
The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

this is the second (2) false charge, the jews accusing Jesus claiming to be God. what Jesus says to that?? if he was a God he would say "yes im God" lets see what Jesus says:

verse - 34
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law (Torah/OT): - "I SAID, YOU ARE GODS"? (Psalm 82:6) 35"If he ("he" means GOD. NOT JESUS, JESUS DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GOD AND HIMSILF)!! called them gods, to whom the word of God came (THE JEWS) and the Scripture cannot be broken (MEANING YOU CANT CONTRADICT ME), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, "I am the Son of God?

here Jesus says OTHERS CALL "GODS" and you finding fault with me when i only say " am the Son of God"?? which is nothing! in the bible prophets called "GOD" and others "son of god", so we see clearly Jesus dismiss their charges. i dont know why everybody keep qouting this verses without context. oh yeah to suit their convenience.

John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth " before Abraham was born, I am!" Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John 8:58
58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

how many people existed before Abraham? The Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there. its funny how christains saying that is the same what God tell in the Old testment "im what im" meaning this is his name. that ridiculous the Hebrew there - says i will be what ever i will be. (i know hebrew yeah...) even its not saying "im" its a different word.

The jew want to kill him? through out the Bible the jews looking for trouble everytime the jews trying to find a trouble with Jesus. how many time Jesus condemn them for that? MANY MANY times, anything Jesus says they misunderstood. if you want examples i will give you plenty.

Jesus says:
" they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." Jesus many time speaks in metaphorical way but the jews ALLWAYS taking anything literally.
(and you know this talking about undersranding not physical seeing or hearing but the problem is the jews..)
And we take what Jesus says not the jews who trying to find a fault with him in every small matter.


John reiterates the concept of Jesus" deity: "The Word [Jesus] was God" and "the Word became flesh" (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org...

First this is not Jesus talking its John, secondly John wrote his theological ideas into the text, the 3 Gospels Mattew Luke and Mark wriiten before John and examining the 4 Gospels, the earlier the Gospel in date, the position of Jesus is more human going to the last Gosple which is John wirte many years after the 3 Gospels, trying to potray Jesus in the begining as a God, so you can see the evolution taken place, you dont need to be a doctore of divinity to see these things.

All the prophecies written by God's prophets have no information in them to suggest that a man called Jesus would come and claim to be God on earth and die for our sins. All us saints are guided by our invisible Creator to read some of the prophecies while He interprets them for us and has us write stories in our own language to learn the deeper meanings of these prophecies.

Not one Christian has ever been used by God to read the prophecies for Him to be taught the deeper meanings of them. This is why they don't understand anything that the prophets wrote about. This is also the reason these false prophets and antichrists had to add their religious ideas to the words they stole from the saints to make up their new testament and produce the Bible that has totally deceived every man whoever read it. Only God can interpret the prophecies but He uses His saints for that purpose, not Christians or any other religious person.
ethang5
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9/1/2014 11:25:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 4:57:57 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 3:50:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:

No, you only need bias and an incomplete knowledge of Scripture to "see" these things.

Luk 24:27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Jesus speaking, showing two of His disciples how the entire OT is talking about Him.

This verse talking about prophecies of Christ not God, so what? the jews never believed in Christ coming as a God to earth.

Show me a prophesy about Christ from Leviticus. Can you do that?

Jhn 5:46 - For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Jesus speaking. Saying that Moses wrote of Him. But we know that Moses wrote only of God!

Nonsense, again its about prophecies of Jesus as Christ not God. you reading something and understanding something else.

Give me a verse of Moses talking about Christ. Can you do that?

Rev 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Jesus speaking, calling Himself the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, He who is, was, and is to come. Words used elsewhere by God to describe Himself.

First of all Rev is not part of the life of Jesus on earth the 4 Gospels are (which are written by anonymous persons but fot the sake of argument lets ignore it),

There was no stipulation in the OP that it had to be the life of Jesus ON EARTH. Jesus existed before He came to Earth as a human and existed after He left the Earth. Why in the world would any Christian agree to such a silly limitation?

Jesus himself didnt say this words somebody else ascribing it to him who saw it in a dream. look simple english give me saying of Jesus himself.

Those words are the words of Jesus Himself. The fact that you don't believe that is irrelevant to me. Your agreement is not necessary.

Jhn 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Jesus speaking, referring to the OT. The OT speaks of God and calls God the ONLY Savior. Jesus Himself says the OT testifies of Him.

you amazing me for you interpretations, what this verse has to do with Jesus being God .

The scriptures Jesus cite speak of God. Yet Jesus says they are speaking of Him. Can you resolve that?

...only savior? every prophet was the savior who guide people to the right path of their times, who was the savior in the time of Moses? it was jesus or Moses? lol.

Isa 43:11 - I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

Hos 13:4 - "Yet I am the LORD your God Ever since the land of Egypt, And you shall know no God but Me; For there is no savior besides Me.

1Ti 2:3 - For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

Tit 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

1Jo 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

Jude 1:25 - To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.

I believe the Bible. And the Bible says there is, and has always been, only one Savior. God. The Prophets agree. The Bible agrees. Jesus agrees. The Father agrees. If you contradict that, you are wrong.

Luk 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 - Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Jesus speaking, showing His 11 disciples how the Torah, all the prophets, and Psalms refer to Him.

Prophecies.... we muslims also believe in Jesus so what?????

If you believed in Jesus you would do the work of Jesus. You do the work of your father.

....prophecies about christ not God. do you know whats the different between christ and God? i think not.

So show us the prophesies about Christ in Numbers or Genesis. Can you do that?

POPOO5560 needs his understanding opened that he might understand the scriptures. But that pesky love of the truth problem gets in the way....

Dude you are prejudice of Jesus being God but there is no such thing and you cant prove it.

I can only present verses saying Jesus is God. You can only say you don't believe Jesus is God. The Bible contradicts you. Ergo, you are wrong.

Jhn 8:45 - ....because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
Jhn 8:46 - "Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
Jhn 8:47 - "He who is of God hears God"s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."

Lol He who is of God hears God"s words;
"of" means something else of God himself.

Exactly. Which is why you do not hear Jesus, you aren't of God.

2Th 2:5 - Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:9 - The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 - and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

You are not answering the questions you are preaching.

I am not preaching a question. I am posting verses which contradict you. That means, you are wrong.

Jesus accepted worship,

Prophet Deniel accepted worship too, so make Deniel as God himself.

Daniel never accepted worship.

.and Claimed authority to forgave sin.

Mat 28:18 - Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

God gave him the authority for forgive its is not on his own power doing so he says -

lol Hypocrite! When you like the comment, then Matthew is a credible witness huh? Why would God give all authority in Heaven to a created being? Only God has the authority to forgive sin. The Father could only gave it to Jesus if Jesus was God.

John 5:30 - By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

this verse is the knockout punch. by himslef he cat do nothing, and he seek not to please himslef but him who sent him that is God. boom.

Phl 2:5 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
Phl 2:6 - who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Phl 2:7 - but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Phl 2:8 - And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9 - Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Phl 2:10 - that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

Read it several times. You'll get it.
ethang5
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9/1/2014 11:33:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 4:57:57 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 3:50:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:

The Bible itself calls Jesus God, using the actual word God in the old AND new testaments.

Please where OT says Jesus is God its easy to talk.

Isa 9:6

Jesus is called God to His face by people speaking to Him.

Give verses people saying to him you are God,

Jhn 20:28

...actually when the Jew accused him of claiming to be a God (john 10:30-5), Jesus rebuked them showing he is not God.

Lie.

Anyone telling you that The Bible does not call Jesus God is either unfamiliar with the Bible or has an unstated agenda. A person is free to refuse to believe what the Bible says, but cannot change what the Bible clearly says. Jesus was always, is always, and will always be, God. And in my opinion, the OT says it just as emphatically as the NT.

Yeah sure and you cant give us 1 verse of Jesus saying that. good job.

I have given you several. Address them. We care not for your opinion.
POPOO5560
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9/1/2014 12:34:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 11:25:25 AM, ethang5 wrote:

Show me a prophesy about Christ from Leviticus. Can you do that?

Why i should do it? you claimed Jesus is potrayed as God in the OT. im saying the prophecies is about being christ, james white wrote a entire book on that alone, you claim he is God in the OT, so give a verse from the OT Jesus being God. (by the way jews are rejecting your interpretations of the propheceis but anyway,,,)

Give me a verse of Moses talking about Christ. Can you do that?

i dont need to. you give me verse of Jesus as God.

There was no stipulation in the OP that it had to be the life of Jesus ON EARTH. Jesus existed before He came to Earth as a human and existed after He left the Earth. Why in the world would any Christian agree to such a silly limitation?

How he existed? in what form in knowledge of God or physically with God and the holy ghost beside them?


Jesus himself didnt say this words somebody else ascribing it to him who saw it in a dream. look simple english give me saying of Jesus himself.

Those words are the words of Jesus Himself. The fact that you don't believe that is irrelevant to me. Your agreement is not necessary.

revaletion is written and it was a dream, its not Jesus talking there somebody saw it in a dream, in the 4 Gospels he doesnt claim that did he?


Jhn 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The scriptures Jesus cite speak of God. Yet Jesus says they are speaking of Him. Can you resolve that?

Every prophet is speak of God am i right?

Isa 43:11 - I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

Hos 13:4 - "Yet I am the LORD your God Ever since the land of Egypt, And you shall know no God but Me; For there is no savior besides Me.

1Ti 2:3 - For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

Tit 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

You qouted Timothy, Timothy written by Paul who never meet Jesus in his life time. its Paul talking there where is Jesus saying he is God for the million time.

1Jo 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

Jude 1:25 - To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.

Ok who was the Savior in the time of Moses? it was Jesus ? God works only thorugh his prophets as mediators, the verses you giving is not of the life of Jesus, other people said it, where is Jesus saying that again for the 10000 time.


I believe the Bible. And the Bible says there is, and has always been, only one Savior. God. The Prophets agree. The Bible agrees. Jesus agrees. The Father agrees. If you contradict that, you are wrong.


If you believed in Jesus you would do the work of Jesus. You do the work of your father.

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." john 17:3

so the father is the only true God and Jesus is sent by him.

So show us the prophesies about Christ in Numbers or Genesis. Can you do that?
...

I can only present verses saying Jesus is God. You can only say you don't believe Jesus is God. The Bible contradicts you. Ergo, you are wrong.

Jhn 8:45 - ....because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
Jhn 8:46 - "Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
Jhn 8:47 - "He who is of God hears God"s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."

Lol He who is of God hears God"s words;
"of" means something else of God himself.

Exactly. Which is why you do not hear Jesus, you aren't of God.

lol so you saying "im of God" = "im God"? :D

2Th 2:5 - Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:9 - The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 - and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

You are not answering the questions you are preaching.

I am not preaching a question. I am posting verses which contradict you. That means, you are wrong.

yeah..

Prophet Deniel accepted worship too, so make Deniel as God himself.

Daniel never accepted worship.

2:46
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.


.and Claimed authority to forgave sin.

Mat 28:18 - Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

God gave him the authority for forgive its is not on his own power doing so he says -

lol Hypocrite! When you like the comment, then Matthew is a credible witness huh? Why would God give all authority in Heaven to a created being? Only God has the authority to forgive sin. The Father could only gave it to Jesus if Jesus was God.

im hypocrite? im saying God gave him the power to forgive its not his own power hard to understand yeah?
John 5:30 - By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

God can do anything, Jesus himself can do nothing. booooooom.

this verse is the knockout punch. by himslef he cat do nothing, and he seek not to please himslef but him who sent him that is God. boom.

Phl 2:5 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
Phl 2:6 - who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Phl 2:7 - but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Phl 2:8 - And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9 - Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Phl 2:10 - that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

Read it several times. You'll get it.

philippians written by paul paul paul paul paul .
im asking you jesus jesus jesus jesus .
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
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9/1/2014 12:41:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 11:33:00 AM, ethang5 wrote:

Isa 9:6

Its not about Jesus in the context and also in the verse you post.

Jesus is called God to His face by people speaking to Him.

Give verses people saying to him you are God,

Jhn 20:28

again read the context.

...actually when the Jew accused him of claiming to be a God (john 10:30-5), Jesus rebuked them showing he is not God.

Lie.

you didnt read my reply to it yeah?


Anyone telling you that The Bible does not call Jesus God is either unfamiliar with the Bible or has an unstated agenda. A person is free to refuse to believe what the Bible says, but cannot change what the Bible clearly says. Jesus was always, is always, and will always be, God. And in my opinion, the OT says it just as emphatically as the NT.

Yeah sure and you cant give us 1 verse of Jesus saying that. good job.

I have given you several. Address them. We care not for your opinion.

out of coxtext lol.
Never fart near dog
celestialtorahteacher
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9/1/2014 3:44:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Poppoop, give it up, give up your Muhammadan religious war against Christianity as you are only exposing your own brainwashing as a Muhammadan clone who is brainwashed 5 times daily to do the bidding of an ancient dead man. That dead man claimed Jesus was only a prophet, not God, so you being a robot of the dead man perform his orders to attack Christianity by "proving" Jesus couldn't be God. Do you have any comprehension of what I talking about? That you and all your fellow Muhammadans are essentially Muhammad's brain spewing out Muhammad's ideas about Christianity. Why on earth would you not wake up to this reality? Because you are completely BRAINWASHED and don't see it. You don't see that to us, non-Muslims you have no Popoop identity because where is it? You ask Muhammad's questioning of Christianity. It's Muhammad brain we are in dialogue with whenever we debate Muhammadans. There's no difference in ideology between you and say Fatihah as you both are like tape recorders set on "play Muhammad". It makes all your posts just like reading about old battle reports of wars and reasons given by both sides for waging war against each other but in the end, both sides are just acting out ancient dysfunctional social organizing that only thought in terms of continuous warfare.

You cannot get a rational answer about the question of whether or not Jesus said or implied he was God by asking Pauline Christians to answer that. They can't do it because the Gospels are ambivalent about the question. As a Celestial Torah Christian I know the answer to the question and here it is:

On earth Jesus Christ was the Son of God acting out the Son of Man spiritual instructions as Messiah. Once Jesus Christ ascended to heaven he became one with Father, the Father face of the Godhead, he became One with God in heaven. When Jesus reappeared back on earth he began addressing his disciples as His "children".

"Then Jesus said to them, "Children, have you any food?"...Jn 21:5
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/1/2014 4:27:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This was the excuse the Jewish religious leaders, the Scribes and Pharisees, used to condemn Jesus. He had said "before Abraham was, I AM" claiming ot be God of the Old Testament, and He said "I and my Father are one" making Himself equal to God.

He claimed to be the Son of God. In Jeswish law and culture, this is understood as equality as the son is considered to be equal to the father. The Jews said "being a man, you make yourself God". Jesus claimed to be God many times because He is God.

You might say " the Son is not equal to the Father", or you might say "does God need a wife?" or "Does God have a mother?" or stupid questions like that. Mary was only a sinner girl specially chosen to provide a body for the Son of God. God conceived in Mary by His Holy Spirit, not by sex like the stupid Muslims say, always trying to make things dirty, so Jesus was born without human blood from Adam. Jesus was sinless always because He is God. He came to give Himself as the full payment for your sins, so He can be satisfied to pardon all who believe on Him and justified to condemn to Hell all who refuse His gift which is eternal life through faith in His blood.

If a man has a son, the son is a man. God's Son is God.

Islam is dumb. You have to be dumb to beleve you can be good enough to pay for your own sins so you don't have to burn in Hell. The only way you can pay for your sins is to burn in Hell forever, and Muhammed will lead you there thinking God has not given Jesus all authority in Heaven and in earth after He earned it by dying for the sins of the world.

Muhammed was not a prophet, he was a liar tryng to make himself equal with Jesus by saying Jesus is not God. Muhammed knew that the Arabs hate the Jews so he made a book to pretend that their hatred agaisnt Israel is justified. That's all Islam is. Islam is murder and if you believe the religion will take you to heaven, you are going to find Muhammed is burning in Hell when you wake up in the fire.

I like the muslim story of how you were supposedly given the opportunity before you were born to choose to be a human being so you could go to earth and be tested to see if you are good enough for God and then your memory was wiped clean and you forgot all this stuff before you were born. If you don't believe it, you get your head cut off for Allah. ALHALAHAALLLLAAAAHHHAPALALALALALLALALALAL
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/1/2014 4:42:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This guy is a Muslim who apparently was brainwashed all of his life to hate Israel and hate Christians and work toward domination of the world by Islam. Islam is nothing but hate and murder. When the sunnis and shiites and the other crazies get tired of killing each other, they will all team up agaisnt Israel with Russia and China, the whole world will come against Israel and God will wipe out their armies. Stupid Muslims think they have to bring a world wide blood bath before their Messiah returns. The Muslim Messiah is going to be the Ant-Christ of the Book of Revelation. Untill then, Muslims will always work toward bring more and more war because they think they need to make their prophecies of their Jew and Christian killing Messiah to come true.

This guy may be a peaceful Muslim, but he is pushing the teachings of Islam which build excuses for hating Israel and murdering Jews and Christians, and pushing for more and more war with any people or nation that tries to stop them. It all goes back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God's promises passed from Abraham to Isaac and then to Jacob who later became Israel. The Arabs hate the Jews because they are jealous.........so jealous that they hide behind women and children and send them out with suicide vests under threat of their families being tortured and killed, then they say Allah is great, look what a brave martyr did to murder the Jews!

An invitation to Islam is an invitation to Hell.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/1/2014 4:49:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus always was and always will be one with God the Father. These Three are One, they are inseparable. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit., Allah and Muhammed are not in there. ALLALLALLAHAHLLAHHHALLLL AGHHHA:LLALALALLA ALALALALALLALALALAHHHAHA:AALLALAHAHHA . Islam always has and always will be nothing but murder and always pushing for war.......God will put an end to Islam.
lannan13
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9/1/2014 5:21:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus, in theory, claimed to be God. If we apply the idea of the Holy Trinity we can see that Jesus is actually God, so it would seem ideal that Jesus makes this claim.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

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POPOO5560
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9/1/2014 6:36:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 5:21:08 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Jesus, in theory, claimed to be God. If we apply the idea of the Holy Trinity we can see that Jesus is actually God, so it would seem ideal that Jesus makes this claim.

Where did he claim that? please show us.
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POPOO5560
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9/1/2014 6:41:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
celestialtorahteacher and LifeMeansGodIsGood like little kids same things: islam murder killing lie mohhamed 7th century jesus is god bible jesus bless jesus god jesus jesus jesus...

a perfect example of brainwashed people. go eat rice its good its my favorite food.
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LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/1/2014 7:04:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'll take a nice pork steak cut from pigs raised on eating the paper Quran is written on.

Also, when used this way, the Quran becomes good fertilizer for my garden.
POPOO5560
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9/1/2014 10:06:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 7:01:56 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
if a man has a son, the son is human. God's Son is God. what's so hard to understand about that?

so you are saying there are 2 Gods. a family... God have a son... moron use your brain if you have one.
https://www.youtube.com...
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POPOO5560
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9/1/2014 10:07:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 7:04:46 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I'll take a nice pork steak cut from pigs raised on eating the paper Quran is written on.

Also, when used this way, the Quran becomes good fertilizer for my garden.

Yeah so this how you deal with other people right? "love your enemy" in my....
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lannan13
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9/1/2014 10:23:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 6:36:38 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 5:21:08 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Jesus, in theory, claimed to be God. If we apply the idea of the Holy Trinity we can see that Jesus is actually God, so it would seem ideal that Jesus makes this claim.

Where did he claim that? please show us.

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?"
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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9/1/2014 11:04:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 10:33:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Just moved here because too many stuff involving there.... anyway please if someone can give a verse from the Bible any version of the Bible where Jesus said: IM GOD or WORSHIP ME...

At 8/6/2014 10:11:33 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, "I am God."

Thanks you very much because he didnt claim to be, and this is funny because all the versions of the bibles, and the bible manuscripts (20.000+, 5000 in greek) all are differing not one are identical, with all the changes people wrote not one says Jesus claim to be God.

That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus" words in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." We need only to look at the Jews" reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: "You, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming"deity. When Jesus declared, "I and the Father are one," He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence.

Here my answer to that in the previus forum to John 10:30 where it says "i and my father are one" context:

start from verse 23 - it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father"s name, these testify of Me.

this is (1) false charge - jews say he didnt explain himself plainly he is the Christ, but Jesus did explain himself.

verse 26 - 30
"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father"s hand. 30"I and the Father are one."

They are one in this no one can snatch them out of their hand, in porpuse in faith they are one. but the jews picked up stones to stone him because they though he is claiming to be God:

verses 30 - 33
The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

this is the second (2) false charge, the jews accusing Jesus claiming to be God. what Jesus says to that?? if he was a God he would say "yes im God" lets see what Jesus says:

verse - 34
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law (Torah/OT): - "I SAID, YOU ARE GODS"? (Psalm 82:6) 35"If he ("he" means GOD. NOT JESUS, JESUS DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GOD AND HIMSILF)!! called them gods, to whom the word of God came (THE JEWS) and the Scripture cannot be broken (MEANING YOU CANT CONTRADICT ME), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, "I am the Son of God?

here Jesus says OTHERS CALL "GODS" and you finding fault with me when i only say " am the Son of God"?? which is nothing! in the bible prophets called "GOD" and others "son of god", so we see clearly Jesus dismiss their charges. i dont know why everybody keep qouting this verses without context. oh yeah to suit their convenience.

John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth " before Abraham was born, I am!" Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John 8:58
58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

how many people existed before Abraham? The Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" Yet no one says that his prehuman existence qualifies him for deity, so how jesus was? in the knowledge of God he was there, every tom dick and herry was there. its funny how christains saying that is the same what God tell in the Old testment "im what im" meaning this is his name. that ridiculous the Hebrew there - says i will be what ever i will be. (i know hebrew yeah...) even its not saying "im" its a different word.

The jew want to kill him? through out the Bible the jews looking for trouble everytime the jews trying to find a trouble with Jesus. how many time Jesus condemn them for that? MANY MANY times, anything Jesus says they misunderstood. if you want examples i will give you plenty.

Jesus says:
" they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." Jesus many time speaks in metaphorical way but the jews ALLWAYS taking anything literally.
(and you know this talking about undersranding not physical seeing or hearing but the problem is the jews..)
And we take what Jesus says not the jews who trying to find a fault with him in every small matter.


John reiterates the concept of Jesus" deity: "The Word [Jesus] was God" and "the Word became flesh" (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org...

First this is not Jesus talking its John, secondly John wrote his theological ideas into the text, the 3 Gospels Mattew Luke and Mark wriiten before John and examining the 4 Gospels, the earlier the Gospel in date, the position of Jesus is more human going to the last Gosple which is John wirte many years after the 3 Gospels, trying to potray Jesus in the begining as a God, so you can see the evolution taken place, you dont need to be a doctore of divinity to see these things.

The Bible is confused about many things. By the way Jesus did not even exist. Let alone God or not.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,481
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9/2/2014 8:06:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 10:23:24 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 6:36:38 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 5:21:08 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Jesus, in theory, claimed to be God. If we apply the idea of the Holy Trinity we can see that Jesus is actually God, so it would seem ideal that Jesus makes this claim.

Where did he claim that? please show us.

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?"

yeah thats good example... first at any verse we need to look at it in its context.. Jesus says - "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" now is Jesus the father? and every christain would say no, if i ask you where is lannan13? and you answering me - if you have seen me you have seen lannan13, but Jesus didnt mean that, so if must be interpreted in other way... now coming to the context:

14:1
"Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
2
In my Father"s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
4
And you know the way to where I am going."
5
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?" (thomas misunderstood, Jesus talking about spiritual journey, thomas thinking of geographical location)
6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7
If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
8
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
9
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip?
(the disciples are jews, according to the OT you cant see God and live, here philip asking a silly request.) Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.(meaning if you הבין me you will understand the father) How can you say, "Show us the Father"?
(meaning how can philip asks a silly question when the jews believing that you cant see God and live.(Thou canst not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live"" Exodus 33:18-23)
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LifeMeansGodIsGood
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9/2/2014 8:08:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 10:07:56 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 7:04:46 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I'll take a nice pork steak cut from pigs raised on eating the paper Quran is written on.

Also, when used this way, the Quran becomes good fertilizer for my garden.

Yeah so this how you deal with other people right? "love your enemy" in my....

I'm telling you the truth, that is loving. If I tell you less than the truth, it would be apatheic. Being Mr. Nice Guy is not loving. Islam is evil. You need to get saved from Hell. I'm sorry, I know if you get saved it will cost you a lot of Muslim friends and family members will turn their backs on you and you may be in danger of getting your head cut off. Getting your head cut off is better than burning in Hell. If the Muslims try to make me bow to Allah and say Muhammed is His prophet, I will say Jesus Christ is God and they can cut my head off and I'm going to heaven.
POPOO5560
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9/2/2014 11:45:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 8:08:34 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 9/1/2014 10:07:56 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 7:04:46 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
I'll take a nice pork steak cut from pigs raised on eating the paper Quran is written on.

Also, when used this way, the Quran becomes good fertilizer for my garden.

Yeah so this how you deal with other people right? "love your enemy" in my....

I'm telling you the truth, that is loving. If I tell you less than the truth, it would be apatheic. Being Mr. Nice Guy is not loving. Islam is evil. You need to get saved from Hell. I'm sorry, I know if you get saved it will cost you a lot of Muslim friends and family members will turn their backs on you and you may be in danger of getting your head cut off. Getting your head cut off is better than burning in Hell. If the Muslims try to make me bow to Allah and say Muhammed is His prophet, I will say Jesus Christ is God and they can cut my head off and I'm going to heaven.

http://notalwaysright.com...
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