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God, Atheism, and the way we live

BrownChickenBrownCow
Posts: 6
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8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

(Christians) If you were given solid proof that there is no God would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

(Christians) If you were given solid proof that there is no God would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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8/8/2014 6:55:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?


I would definitely live differently. If God exists, then he is the most vile authority that the world has ever seen. He (if he exists, which isn't true) is a genocidal, narcissistic, megalomaniac who damns those who oppose him to an afterlife of eternal suffering and anguish. I would donate every ounce of my time towards abolishing him. However, this is more because of my views as an anti-theist, not necessarily my views as an atheist.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/8/2014 6:56:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:55:08 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?


I would definitely live differently. If God exists, then he is the most vile authority that the world has ever seen. He (if he exists, which isn't true) is a genocidal, narcissistic, megalomaniac who damns those who oppose him to an afterlife of eternal suffering and anguish. I would donate every ounce of my time towards abolishing him. However, this is more because of my views as an anti-theist, not necessarily my views as an atheist.

Why do you equivocate God to mean the Judeo- Christian God?
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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8/8/2014 6:59:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

(Christians) If you were given solid proof that there is no God would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.

Then please, please keep on believing your delusions if that is all that is protecting us from your insanity. If you need a big stick hanging over your head in order to behave as a decent, civilized human being then I'm all for you worshipping away. Go at it!
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/8/2014 7:00:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:59:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

(Christians) If you were given solid proof that there is no God would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.

Then please, please keep on believing your delusions if that is all that is protecting us from your insanity. If you need a big stick hanging over your head in order to behave as a decent, civilized human being then I'm all for you worshipping away. Go at it!

When did I infer insanity anywhere in that post?
Chimera
Posts: 178
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8/8/2014 7:02:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:56:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:55:08 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?


I would definitely live differently. If God exists, then he is the most vile authority that the world has ever seen. He (if he exists, which isn't true) is a genocidal, narcissistic, megalomaniac who damns those who oppose him to an afterlife of eternal suffering and anguish. I would donate every ounce of my time towards abolishing him. However, this is more because of my views as an anti-theist, not necessarily my views as an atheist.

Why do you equivocate God to mean the Judeo- Christian God?

I don't selectively mean the Abrahamic God. I mean every/all God(s). The Abrahamic God is simply the most popular and the most widely believed. Which is why I associated my post with it.
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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8/8/2014 7:03:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:00:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:59:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.

Then please, please keep on believing your delusions if that is all that is protecting us from your insanity. If you need a big stick hanging over your head in order to behave as a decent, civilized human being then I'm all for you worshipping away. Go at it!

When did I infer insanity anywhere in that post?

Only insane people do whatever pleases them with total disregard to consequences.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:03:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:00:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:59:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.

Then please, please keep on believing your delusions if that is all that is protecting us from your insanity. If you need a big stick hanging over your head in order to behave as a decent, civilized human being then I'm all for you worshipping away. Go at it!

When did I infer insanity anywhere in that post?

Only insane people do whatever pleases them with total disregard to consequences.

If no good or evil exists, we live as a participant in an objectively purposeless world and everything is absolutely neutral. I find it ironic that you, as an ancestor from dirt, criticise another ancestor from dirt's impossibly immoral potential behavior.
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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8/8/2014 7:14:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:03:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:00:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:59:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.

Then please, please keep on believing your delusions if that is all that is protecting us from your insanity. If you need a big stick hanging over your head in order to behave as a decent, civilized human being then I'm all for you worshipping away. Go at it!

When did I infer insanity anywhere in that post?

Only insane people do whatever pleases them with total disregard to consequences.

If no good or evil exists, we live as a participant in an objectively purposeless world and everything is absolutely neutral. I find it ironic that you, as an ancestor from dirt, criticise another ancestor from dirt's impossibly immoral potential behavior.

Oh stop it with your childish notions of good and evil and how atheists should behave according to your juvenile mindset. What you described earlier is a perfect characterization of a sociopath. As I said, we atheists beg you to keep on with your delusional belief system if that is all that is preventing you from turning into a sociopath.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/8/2014 7:16:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:14:09 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:03:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:00:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:59:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.

Then please, please keep on believing your delusions if that is all that is protecting us from your insanity. If you need a big stick hanging over your head in order to behave as a decent, civilized human being then I'm all for you worshipping away. Go at it!

When did I infer insanity anywhere in that post?

Only insane people do whatever pleases them with total disregard to consequences.

If no good or evil exists, we live as a participant in an objectively purposeless world and everything is absolutely neutral. I find it ironic that you, as an ancestor from dirt, criticise another ancestor from dirt's impossibly immoral potential behavior.

Oh stop it with your childish notions of good and evil and how atheists should behave according to your juvenile mindset. What you described earlier is a perfect characterization of a sociopath. As I said, we atheists beg you to keep on with your delusional belief system if that is all that is preventing you from turning into a sociopath.

Do you think good and evil exist? Yes or no.
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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8/8/2014 7:27:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:16:11 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Do you think good and evil exist? Yes or no.

As human constructs, yes. So what?

I've already said that if you want to believe they are mandated by god(s), and this keeps you from becoming a sociopath, then I'm extremely happy for you to continue living in your delusion. What more do you want?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/8/2014 7:29:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:27:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:16:11 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Do you think good and evil exist? Yes or no.

As human constructs, yes. So what?

I've already said that if you want to believe they are mandated by god(s), and this keeps you from becoming a sociopath, then I'm extremely happy for you to continue living in your delusion. What more do you want?

"As human constructs." So essentially you're saying that it's illusory that you believe certain behaviors are immoral. Correct?
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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8/8/2014 7:37:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:29:07 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:27:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:16:11 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Do you think good and evil exist? Yes or no.

As human constructs, yes. So what?

I've already said that if you want to believe they are mandated by god(s), and this keeps you from becoming a sociopath, then I'm extremely happy for you to continue living in your delusion. What more do you want?

"As human constructs." So essentially you're saying that it's illusory that you believe certain behaviors are immoral. Correct?

Can it be possible that you think all human constructs such as mathematics, philosophy, art, music and, yes, ethical behaviour are "illusory"? Is that really what you believe? Grow up.
NathanDuclos
Posts: 51
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8/8/2014 7:55:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Good and Evil are relative to who is doing what and for why. Its why secular morality is always better then religious pronouncements.

Rather then reading the good book, why not read a good amount of books. its well known why people behave a particular way.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/8/2014 7:56:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:37:14 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:29:07 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:27:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:16:11 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Do you think good and evil exist? Yes or no.

As human constructs, yes. So what?

I've already said that if you want to believe they are mandated by god(s), and this keeps you from becoming a sociopath, then I'm extremely happy for you to continue living in your delusion. What more do you want?

"As human constructs." So essentially you're saying that it's illusory that you believe certain behaviors are immoral. Correct?

Can it be possible that you think all human constructs such as mathematics, philosophy, art, music and, yes, ethical behaviour are "illusory"? Is that really what you believe? Grow up.

So good and evil exists as real as perceiving music?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/8/2014 7:58:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:55:31 PM, NathanDuclos wrote:
Good and Evil are relative to who is doing what and for why. Its why secular morality is always better then religious pronouncements.

Rather then reading the good book, why not read a good amount of books. its well known why people behave a particular way.

Do their morals indicate behavior objective to anything?
Keltron
Posts: 161
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8/8/2014 11:36:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

I would probably go Pagan. Something Scandinavian oriented. I'd have to get one of those helmets with horns like Haggar the Horrible.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/8/2014 11:54:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

Agnostic chiming in, here.

Which gawd? If it were any of the gawds claimed by humans, to date, I would likely not change a bit. I wouldn't want to live in a world where any of them exist.

(Christians) If you were given solid proof that there is no God would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

There can be no such thing. Anything that has never existed cannot possibly leave any 'evidence' of not having existed, let alone 'proof.' Only something that exists can leave any evidence of having existed, ever.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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8/9/2014 3:06:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:56:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

So good and evil exists as real as perceiving music?

Perceiving? What?

Ethical or moral behaviour (understanding the difference between what is socially acceptable and what isn't) is just as real as the ability to create and appreciate music. I don't like the terms 'good' and 'evil' because of their absolutist religious overtones. If you keep using them I will ignore you.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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8/9/2014 4:11:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

(Christians) If you were given solid proof that there is no God would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.

Exactly this is the problem with atheism and some athiests take this view, to admit they are logically reasoning and smarter than the other athiests who criticizing them... and for them there is one life why waste it? Do whatever you want they say...
Never fart near dog
Rasputin45
Posts: 35
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8/9/2014 8:08:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

(Christians) If you were given solid proof that there is no God would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

Well it really depends on what kind of God. If the god sends people to hell for basic human nature, I would think he is a malevolent person and I would not worship him (though seeing how my eternal soul would be based on how I live in life I would just cheat I.e Christianity, repent on deathbed, Islam, do the five pillary things without a spiritual meaning.)

If it was a God who has any sense and did not hijack my Soul then I would keep on living as I do, while acknowledging that he does exist.
Grigori Rasputin (James FRJ Hall)
Untertan des "bersicht. Hageln Sie ihm!

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Rasputin45
Posts: 35
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8/9/2014 8:12:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:03:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:00:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:59:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:47:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Yeah I probably would. No God means no good or evil exists, no plan exists, and we're all essentially purposeless space dirt. It would change my outlook on love and on life. I'd probably be a more impulsive person and just do whatever pleasured me without regard to good or evil.

Then please, please keep on believing your delusions if that is all that is protecting us from your insanity. If you need a big stick hanging over your head in order to behave as a decent, civilized human being then I'm all for you worshipping away. Go at it!

When did I infer insanity anywhere in that post?

Only insane people do whatever pleases them with total disregard to consequences.

If no good or evil exists, we live as a participant in an objectively purposeless world and everything is absolutely neutral. I find it ironic that you, as an ancestor from dirt, criticise another ancestor from dirt's impossibly immoral potential behavior.

"2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." We are not the only ones.
Grigori Rasputin (James FRJ Hall)
Untertan des "bersicht. Hageln Sie ihm!

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/9/2014 11:37:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 3:06:41 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:56:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

So good and evil exists as real as perceiving music?

Perceiving? What?

Ethical or moral behaviour (understanding the difference between what is socially acceptable and what isn't) is just as real as the ability to create and appreciate music. I don't like the terms 'good' and 'evil' because of their absolutist religious overtones. If you keep using them I will ignore you.

Aside from immoral acts that are just socially unacceptable, does there exist any immoral absolutes?
AndDontCallMeShirley
Posts: 7
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8/9/2014 11:54:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@OP:

First, it depends on what the nature of this God is.

If it's the Judeo-Christian God, what sort of changes would I even make? If an all-knowing Creator exists, then I am exactly as God had intended and I cannot exercise free will. If I "choose" to live a life of sacrilege, then God is blaspheming against himself. And that ain't my problem.

And as if prayer and worship would do anything. The notion that human prayer has an influence on God and carries power is a direct attack on the idea that God is omniscient and all-powerful. Prayer and worship seem like futile activities.
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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8/9/2014 6:47:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 11:37:38 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/9/2014 3:06:41 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:56:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

So good and evil exists as real as perceiving music?

Perceiving? What?

Ethical or moral behaviour (understanding the difference between what is socially acceptable and what isn't) is just as real as the ability to create and appreciate music. I don't like the terms 'good' and 'evil' because of their absolutist religious overtones. If you keep using them I will ignore you.

Aside from immoral acts that are just socially unacceptable, does there exist any immoral absolutes?

Of course not. Look at human history. You name it, humans have done it and justified it.

Genocide. Yep.
Torture. Yep.
Rape. Yep.
Burning people alive. Yep.
Cannibalism. Yep.
Killing babies. Yep.
Necrophilia. Yep.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/9/2014 7:30:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 6:47:53 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/9/2014 11:37:38 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/9/2014 3:06:41 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:56:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

So good and evil exists as real as perceiving music?

Perceiving? What?

Ethical or moral behaviour (understanding the difference between what is socially acceptable and what isn't) is just as real as the ability to create and appreciate music. I don't like the terms 'good' and 'evil' because of their absolutist religious overtones. If you keep using them I will ignore you.

Aside from immoral acts that are just socially unacceptable, does there exist any immoral absolutes?

Of course not. Look at human history. You name it, humans have done it and justified it.

Genocide. Yep.
Torture. Yep.
Rape. Yep.
Burning people alive. Yep.
Cannibalism. Yep.
Killing babies. Yep.
Necrophilia. Yep.

So why should your opinion on morality have any more merit than that of a sociopaths?
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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8/9/2014 7:45:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 7:30:07 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
<snip>

Aside from immoral acts that are just socially unacceptable, does there exist any immoral absolutes?

Of course not. Look at human history. You name it, humans have done it and justified it.

Genocide. Yep.
Torture. Yep.
Rape. Yep.
Burning people alive. Yep.
Cannibalism. Yep.
Killing babies. Yep.
Necrophilia. Yep.

So why should your opinion on morality have any more merit than that of a sociopaths?

My opinion on morality? What are you talking about?

I follow societal norms and obey the laws of the land. A sociopath doesn't.

You have said that without belief in a supernatural overseer, you would reject the evolved civilized behaviour of the society you have been raised in and "do what you like" (your words paraphrased). That would classify you as criminally insane by your society's standards. The point I have been making all along. So, please, we beseech you, keep on believing if it helps to curb your anti-social impulses.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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8/9/2014 8:09:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 7:45:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/9/2014 7:30:07 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
<snip>

Aside from immoral acts that are just socially unacceptable, does there exist any immoral absolutes?

Of course not. Look at human history. You name it, humans have done it and justified it.

Genocide. Yep.
Torture. Yep.
Rape. Yep.
Burning people alive. Yep.
Cannibalism. Yep.
Killing babies. Yep.
Necrophilia. Yep.

So why should your opinion on morality have any more merit than that of a sociopaths?

My opinion on morality? What are you talking about?

I follow societal norms and obey the laws of the land. A sociopath doesn't.

You have said that without belief in a supernatural overseer, you would reject the evolved civilized behaviour of the society you have been raised in and "do what you like" (your words paraphrased). That would classify you as criminally insane by your society's standards. The point I have been making all along. So, please, we beseech you, keep on believing if it helps to curb your anti-social impulses.

Well if morality is based on societal consensus it's based on nothing more than baseless opinion. Under your own philosophy, rape, cannibalism, murder, torture, etc. is not immoral as long as the person lives in a society where that is acceptable. So why is a sociopaths morals inferior to your opinion on morality? An opinion is something that isn't objective. You've implied morality isn't objective, correct?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/9/2014 8:21:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 11:50:17 AM, BrownChickenBrownCow wrote:
(Atheists) If you were given solid proof that God exists would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

(Christians) If you were given solid proof that there is no God would you live your life differently? Why? Why Not?

Most Christians only live their life differently for an hour while they're going to church. Otherwise, they're flesh keeps them disobedient to God's commandments the rest of the week like any other atheist and religious person on this earth.