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Proving God through Jesus

Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/8/2014 12:22:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character.

What does this even mean and how can you show this?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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8/8/2014 2:09:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:22:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character.

What does this even mean and how can you show this?

It should be, the Truth the Way the Life, Mercy, Judgement, Righteousness, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Love, Faith ,and Hope.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/8/2014 2:52:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 2:09:31 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:22:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character.

What does this even mean and how can you show this?

It should be, the Truth the Way the Life, Mercy, Judgement, Righteousness, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Love, Faith ,and Hope.

That is not a grammatically correct sentence.
Master_De_Bater
Posts: 8
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8/8/2014 3:07:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm no Christian but I can answer your question...The answer is no. I doubt Jesus' existence but even if there was a man named Jesus believed to be the son of god or a god himself--or somehow both, which is what many Christians believe...that still would never be enough to prove all the claims by Christians. If Jesus is real and he claimed the title of god--then he was a liar--unless there is more proof that I just have not seen. If he did perform all those miracles then here's a simple equation:
turning water into wine X00; creating the universe
You get it? Fixing your car does not suddenly make it true when I tell you I am the best mechanic in the world. Such a claim would take tests and proofs and studies. Too bad Jesus "ascended into heaven" before we could do any one of the things I just mentioned. *sigh*
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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8/8/2014 5:17:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 2:52:50 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/8/2014 2:09:31 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:22:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character.

What does this even mean and how can you show this?

It should be, the Truth the Way the Life, Mercy, Judgement, Righteousness, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Love, Faith ,and Hope.

That is not a grammatically correct sentence.

So, what"s your point? Are you a self appointed debate.org grammar and sentence construction police?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/8/2014 9:54:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 5:17:18 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 2:52:50 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/8/2014 2:09:31 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:22:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character.

What does this even mean and how can you show this?

It should be, the Truth the Way the Life, Mercy, Judgement, Righteousness, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Love, Faith ,and Hope.

That is not a grammatically correct sentence.

So, what"s your point?

My point is that it's incomprehensible. If you want to be understood, it's best to abide by the conventions of the English language.

Are you a self appointed debate.org grammar and sentence construction police?
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/8/2014 11:27:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?

The same way all biblical doctrine is taught: Faith and unfounded assertions.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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8/8/2014 11:59:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 2:52:50 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/8/2014 2:09:31 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:22:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character.

What does this even mean and how can you show this?

It should be, the Truth the Way the Life, Mercy, Judgement, Righteousness, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Love, Faith ,and Hope.

That is not a grammatically correct sentence.

It was at the time it was written in the Gospels.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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8/9/2014 12:05:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:22:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character.

What does this even mean and how can you show this?

It means that the God of the Bible is the divine authority and Jesus was the messenger who gave voice to his will so we humans could understand it.

You show it by proving historical facts about the life of Jesus Christ.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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8/9/2014 12:06:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 11:27:07 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?

The same way all biblical doctrine is taught: Faith and unfounded assertions.

So edgy.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/9/2014 6:32:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 12:05:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:22:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character.

What does this even mean and how can you show this?

It means that the God of the Bible is the divine authority and Jesus was the messenger who gave voice to his will so we humans could understand it.

You show it by proving historical facts about the life of Jesus Christ.

Proving one fact about Jesus doesn't prove other facts about Jesus.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/9/2014 5:05:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 12:06:36 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:27:07 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?

The same way all biblical doctrine is taught: Faith and unfounded assertions.

So edgy.

Just being honest.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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8/9/2014 5:12:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 11:27:07 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?

The same way all biblical doctrine is taught: Faith and unfounded assertions.

Really? The same way you went about proving your "dates" for composition of the books of the NT? All you did, when the dust settled, was pick a date after the prophesies were fulfilled, then cite others who did the same thing, and say "so-and-so told me" or "I have a consensus." That amounts to "faith" and "unfounded assertions."

Ever seen anything like this? "Mark didn't write the Book of Mark. Somebody did, and I don't know who - but I know who didn't! Then the anonymous writers of Matthew and Luke just plagiarized from Mark! And they drew upon other sources. What sources? I don't know. I'll call it 'Q'. And on and on. Pure speculation.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/9/2014 6:45:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 5:12:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:27:07 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?

The same way all biblical doctrine is taught: Faith and unfounded assertions.

Really? The same way you went about proving your "dates" for composition of the books of the NT? All you did, when the dust settled, was pick a date after the prophesies were fulfilled, then cite others who did the same thing, and say "so-and-so told me" or "I have a consensus." That amounts to "faith" and "unfounded assertions."

You and I have never discussed "dates" for composition of the NT. You seem to be confusing yourself (again). Further, you and I have never discussed prophecies (no real prophecies, no real fulfillment). This entire paragraph should likely have been directed at someone else (Beastt, perhaps). At any rate, I understand that thinking, for you, is like ice skating uphill, so I can overlook this with just making fun of you. Further infractions will result in a severely harsh look.

Ever seen anything like this? "Mark didn't write the Book of Mark. Somebody did, and I don't know who - but I know who didn't! Then the anonymous writers of Matthew and Luke just plagiarized from Mark! And they drew upon other sources. What sources? I don't know. I'll call it 'Q'. And on and on. Pure speculation.

I may have read that, somewhere on this forum. However, that post did not come from me. Such is the result of your "research." You pull up quotes from this forum every bit as well as you did "facts" about hitler. Keep trying, though. You'll eventually find something legit about which to gripe. And when you do... Whoooooooooweeee, boy, I'd better look out, huh?

Poor little anna...
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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8/9/2014 7:53:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 6:45:55 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/9/2014 5:12:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:27:07 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?

The same way all biblical doctrine is taught: Faith and unfounded assertions.

Really? The same way you went about proving your "dates" for composition of the books of the NT? All you did, when the dust settled, was pick a date after the prophesies were fulfilled, then cite others who did the same thing, and say "so-and-so told me" or "I have a consensus." That amounts to "faith" and "unfounded assertions."

You and I have never discussed "dates" for composition of the NT.

I could have sworn that you claimed that the books of the Bible were not written by eyewitnesses, but perhaps not.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/9/2014 8:18:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

It's impossible to prove that the body called Jesus was only an illusion and the Word he spoke was invisible information where God's creation exists.

I and all the other saints and prophets spoke the Word of God, also.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/10/2014 11:08:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 7:53:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/9/2014 6:45:55 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/9/2014 5:12:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:27:07 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?

The same way all biblical doctrine is taught: Faith and unfounded assertions.

Really? The same way you went about proving your "dates" for composition of the books of the NT? All you did, when the dust settled, was pick a date after the prophesies were fulfilled, then cite others who did the same thing, and say "so-and-so told me" or "I have a consensus." That amounts to "faith" and "unfounded assertions."

You and I have never discussed "dates" for composition of the NT.

I could have sworn that you claimed that the books of the Bible were not written by eyewitnesses, but perhaps not.

No, buttercup... that was not me. I remember reading that thread, but it was not me. Quite frankly, I'm not really concerned with whether or not Mattew wrote Matthew, or in what language, now about who copied Mark. The fact of the matter is, whoever copied whom, I don't believe a word of the "story." At least not the critical elements (miracles, resurrection, healing, immaculate conception, etc.). If memory serves, you had that discussion with Beastt... and got your little pompoms handed to you.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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8/10/2014 11:29:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/10/2014 11:08:27 AM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/9/2014 7:53:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/9/2014 6:45:55 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/9/2014 5:12:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 11:27:07 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 8/8/2014 5:29:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:59:27 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:20:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

Prove Jesus to be authentic as what?

It would seem, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Word of God (Voice of the Lord) in the flesh, the Light of men, Lord of lords, so on and so forth.

Exactly how would you go about proving that Jesus is the Son of God?

The same way all biblical doctrine is taught: Faith and unfounded assertions.

Really? The same way you went about proving your "dates" for composition of the books of the NT? All you did, when the dust settled, was pick a date after the prophesies were fulfilled, then cite others who did the same thing, and say "so-and-so told me" or "I have a consensus." That amounts to "faith" and "unfounded assertions."

You and I have never discussed "dates" for composition of the NT.

I could have sworn that you claimed that the books of the Bible were not written by eyewitnesses, but perhaps not.

No, buttercup... that was not me. I remember reading that thread, but it was not me. Quite frankly, I'm not really concerned with whether or not Mattew wrote Matthew, or in what language, now about who copied Mark. The fact of the matter is, whoever copied whom, I don't believe a word of the "story." At least not the critical elements (miracles, resurrection, healing, immaculate conception, etc.). If memory serves, you had that discussion with Beastt... and got your little pompoms handed to you.

Yes, he got me good, didn't he? He spewed his rhetoric, didn't answer a single questions, declared "I've grown weary" - and in so doing, "handed my pompoms" to me.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/10/2014 4:29:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/10/2014 11:29:08 AM, annanicole wrote:

Yes, he got me good, didn't he? He spewed his rhetoric, didn't answer a single questions, declared "I've grown weary" - and in so doing, "handed my pompoms" to me.

No, anna... That one WAS me. How can you keep all your biblebabblewoowoo straight, if you can't even keep two recent forum exchanges straight?
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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8/10/2014 6:09:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:11:03 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
As a Christian, i don't use the cosmological, ontological, etc. arguments, but i choose to focus on showing that the Word (Logos) of God (Jesus) is the fullness of God's attributes and character. Any Christians who agree that we should prove Jesus to be authentic in order to prove God is as well?

What do you mean by proving Yeshua to be authentic?
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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8/26/2014 8:30:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 3:07:46 PM, Master_De_Bater wrote:
I'm no Christian but I can answer your question...The answer is no. I doubt Jesus' existence but even if there was a man named Jesus believed to be the son of god or a god himself--or somehow both, which is what many Christians believe...that still would never be enough to prove all the claims by Christians. If Jesus is real and he claimed the title of god--then he was a liar--unless there is more proof that I just have not seen. If he did perform all those miracles then here's a simple equation:
turning water into wine X00; creating the universe
You get it? Fixing your car does not suddenly make it true when I tell you I am the best mechanic in the world. Such a claim would take tests and proofs and studies. Too bad Jesus "ascended into heaven" before we could do any one of the things I just mentioned. *sigh*

So if he did all that you would believe?