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Discussing/Debating Christ is Pointless

sovereigngracereigns
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8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)
YaHey
Posts: 43
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8/8/2014 1:06:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

*clears throat* WUSS
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/8/2014 1:35:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

According to your doctrine, there's not much point in "declaring the truth of the Scriptures" at all. If God wants 'em saved, he'll save 'em. He's sovereign. If God wants 'em lost, he'll lose them. Your preaching makes not a whit of difference.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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8/8/2014 1:45:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 1:35:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

According to your doctrine, there's not much point in "declaring the truth of the Scriptures" at all. If God wants 'em saved, he'll save 'em. He's sovereign. If God wants 'em lost, he'll lose them. Your preaching makes not a whit of difference.

Well, that just reveals your ignorance.

The very MEANS God appointed to bring sinners to repentance IS the PREACHING of the Gospel.

So, preaching is not in vain.
Not at all.

But debate and discussion are completely in vain.

And it's because you're LOST that you ignore preaching, and do nothing but debate.

You are LOST.
Come to Christ and be saved.

Christ said:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." (John 6:37)
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/8/2014 2:10:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 1:45:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:35:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

According to your doctrine, there's not much point in "declaring the truth of the Scriptures" at all. If God wants 'em saved, he'll save 'em. He's sovereign. If God wants 'em lost, he'll lose them. Your preaching makes not a whit of difference.

Well, that just reveals your ignorance.

The very MEANS God appointed to bring sinners to repentance IS the PREACHING of the Gospel.

Good. I believe that. We can thus eliminate any direct, literal, actual, miraculous "enlightenment" or "illumination" or "drawing" on the part of God. At least you are starting to believe that the word of God is sufficient.

So, preaching is not in vain.
Not at all.

But debate and discussion are completely in vain.

And it's because you're LOST that you ignore preaching, and do nothing but debate.

This is a debate site, and I'm merely pointing out your errors.

You are LOST.
Come to Christ and be saved.


Christ said:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." (John 6:37)

Sir, the ironic thing is that YOU are most likely the one who is lost. You are a rank sectarian who runs around telling people that God directly, literally, actually, and miraculously "enlightens" people, as if the word of God is not good enough. It's always "the word, plus" with you. Always. You relegate the word of God to the rank of a dead letter. And you double-talk while doing it.

You'll say, "God illuminated me". How? Well, if he did so at all, He did it through the word. You'll say, "God drew me". How? Well, if He did so at all, He drew you through the gospel.

In fact, in conviction and conversion, you ... get this good ... you can't name one single thing that God effects upon the hearts and mind of men that is not produced by the word of God. Thus God operates through the word - and in no other way. No miraculous "drawing". No better-felt-than-explained "feelings". Nada. Try it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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8/8/2014 2:21:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 1:35:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

According to your doctrine, there's not much point in "declaring the truth of the Scriptures" at all. If God wants 'em saved, he'll save 'em. He's sovereign. If God wants 'em lost, he'll lose them. Your preaching makes not a whit of difference.

So what you are saying is the preaching of the Gospel of Christ Jesus hasn"t had any impact in the world in the past oh maybe 1900 and some Yr"s, correct? That"s your "intelligence" stance?

If God has given men the capability to speak the Truth of God, then why wouldn"t God let it be that men carry the message to his fellow man?
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/8/2014 3:02:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 2:21:50 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:35:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

According to your doctrine, there's not much point in "declaring the truth of the Scriptures" at all. If God wants 'em saved, he'll save 'em. He's sovereign. If God wants 'em lost, he'll lose them. Your preaching makes not a whit of difference.

So what you are saying is the preaching of the Gospel of Christ Jesus hasn"t had any impact in the world in the past oh maybe 1900 and some Yr"s, correct? That"s your "intelligence" stance?

If God has given men the capability to speak the Truth of God, then why wouldn"t God let it be that men carry the message to his fellow man?

That's HIS position, at least indirectly ... very indirectly. He'd never admit to it. His position is that the Truth of God, alone, or the Gospel of Jesus Christ, alone, has no effect whatsoever upon men.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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8/8/2014 3:07:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 1:45:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The very MEANS God appointed to bring sinners to repentance IS the PREACHING of the Gospel.

You have to show that there is such thing as sin though, otherwise you sound like one of the guys on the street corned with a tin foil hat.

So, preaching is not in vain.
Not at all.

Preaching without showing facts to back up what you say is a sign of ignorance and stupidity. The only people that will take you seriously are those that have a low mental capacity or those that already agreed with you.

But debate and discussion are completely in vain.

Debate and discussion is used to help solidify facts. The side that has more facts to back it up wins.

And it's because you're LOST that you ignore preaching, and do nothing but debate.

You are stupid, that is why you think preaching matters.

You are LOST.
Come to Christ and be saved.

Come to Cthulhu to be saved. There is just as much evidence for both.

Christ said:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." (John 6:37)

A book that is not historically accurate, so what is the point in quoting from it?
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/8/2014 5:40:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 3:07:00 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:45:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The very MEANS God appointed to bring sinners to repentance IS the PREACHING of the Gospel.

You have to show that there is such thing as sin though, otherwise you sound like one of the guys on the street corned with a tin foil hat.

So, preaching is not in vain.
Not at all.

Preaching without showing facts to back up what you say is a sign of ignorance and stupidity. The only people that will take you seriously are those that have a low mental capacity or those that already agreed with you.

But debate and discussion are completely in vain.

Debate and discussion is used to help solidify facts. The side that has more facts to back it up wins.

And it's because you're LOST that you ignore preaching, and do nothing but debate.

You are stupid, that is why you think preaching matters.

You are LOST.
Come to Christ and be saved.

Come to Cthulhu to be saved. There is just as much evidence for both.

Christ said:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." (John 6:37)

A book that is not historically accurate, so what is the point in quoting from it?

I doubt that he agrees with your little assertion that the Bible is not historically accurate.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,137
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8/8/2014 6:01:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

1 Peter 3:14-14
But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

The Bible tells you to defend your faith. You cannot defend your beliefs until you know where they are being attacked. You've got to listen as well as transmit. That would pretty much be debate, right? Oh, and, you should be gentle and reverant while your at it. So far, you have been an embarrassment to other Christians around here due to your hostile dogma. (At least, I feel embarrassed for them.) Do better, sir.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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8/8/2014 6:03:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:01:19 PM, Skepticalone wrote:

1 Peter 3:14-14
But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

The Bible tells you to defend your faith. You cannot defend your beliefs until you know where they are being attacked. You've got to listen as well as transmit. That would pretty much be debate, right? Oh, and, you should be gentle and reverant while your at it. So far, you have been an embarrassment to other Christians around here due to your hostile dogma. (At least, I feel embarrassed for them.) Do better, sir.

Game. Set. Match.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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8/8/2014 6:18:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

That kind of reasoning could be used to justify any and all religious belief. "The doctrine of Islam/Mormon/Scientology can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism. There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men."

It's a double standard.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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8/8/2014 6:28:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:01:19 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

1 Peter 3:14-14
But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

The Bible tells you to defend your faith. You cannot defend your beliefs until you know where they are being attacked. You've got to listen as well as transmit. That would pretty much be debate, right? Oh, and, you should be gentle and reverant while your at it. So far, you have been an embarrassment to other Christians around here due to your hostile dogma. (At least, I feel embarrassed for them.) Do better, sir.

Well, I'm willing to concede that I'm not always gentle.

But you're WRONG about what it means to give a defense.

It does NOT mean to have formal debates, or to be a relativist, or to compromise on doctrine at all.

It means to be a WITNESS to the TRUTH.

A WITNESS is someone who TESTIFIES to what he KNOWS and/or EXPERIENCED.

That's exactly what I'm doing.
I'm in NO WAY commanded to DEBATE or DISCUSS with anyone.

To do such would IMPLY that the Scriptures are DEBATABLE.
Or that they can be DISCUSSED, like the NEWS.
Which they're NOT.

The Word of God is not the news, or the weather, or philosophy.
It's not to be DEBATED or DISCUSSED, but PROCLAIMED.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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8/8/2014 6:37:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:18:51 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

That kind of reasoning could be used to justify any and all religious belief. "The doctrine of Islam/Mormon/Scientology can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism. There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men."

It's a double standard.

It would be a double standard if all religions were the truth.

But one of them is TRUE, and the rest are all FALSE.

One came from GOD, and the others came from MEN.

So "double standard" just really doesn't apply.

And, no I can't prove it to you.

Nonetheless, it is what it is.

You're just gonna think it's a double standard, when in fact, it's not.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/8/2014 6:38:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:28:09 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:01:19 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

1 Peter 3:14-14
But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

The Bible tells you to defend your faith. You cannot defend your beliefs until you know where they are being attacked. You've got to listen as well as transmit. That would pretty much be debate, right? Oh, and, you should be gentle and reverant while your at it. So far, you have been an embarrassment to other Christians around here due to your hostile dogma. (At least, I feel embarrassed for them.) Do better, sir.

Well, I'm willing to concede that I'm not always gentle.

.... or accurate.

But you're WRONG about what it means to give a defense.

No, I'm afraid he is right. Jesus, Paul, and others REASONED with their detractors. Would you like the passages?

It does NOT mean to have formal debates, or to be a relativist, or to compromise on doctrine at all.

It means to be a WITNESS to the TRUTH.

No, it doesn't. There is a big difference between merely preaching the truth versus giving a defense of the truth. You need to brush up on that difference.

A WITNESS is someone who TESTIFIES to what he KNOWS and/or EXPERIENCED.

That's exactly what I'm doing.
I'm in NO WAY commanded to DEBATE or DISCUSS with anyone.

You are commanded to "give a defense" and "have answers to questions". For the most part, you've done neither.

To do such would IMPLY that the Scriptures are DEBATABLE.

What the scriptures do or do not teach is debatable.

Or that they can be DISCUSSED, like the NEWS.

Indeed they can be
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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8/8/2014 6:51:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:37:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:18:51 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

That kind of reasoning could be used to justify any and all religious belief. "The doctrine of Islam/Mormon/Scientology can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism. There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men."

It's a double standard.

It would be a double standard if all religions were the truth.

But one of them is TRUE, and the rest are all FALSE.

One came from GOD, and the others came from MEN.

So "double standard" just really doesn't apply.

And, no I can't prove it to you.

Nonetheless, it is what it is.

You're just gonna think it's a double standard, when in fact, it's not.

You don't get to use a kind of reasoning selectively then when it is pointed out that is what your are doing imply that your own religious beliefs are Gods truth thus you are exempted.

Once again that can be used to justify any and all religious belief.

You wouldn't accept it for islam/mormon, how about applying that same standard to yourself ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

"Frankfurt argues that bullsh!t either can be true or can be false; hence, the bullsh!tter is a man or a woman whose principal aim " when uttering or publishing bullsh!t " is to impress the listener and the reader with words that communicate an impression favorable to the speaker, with no concern for the truth of what they're saying. Likewise, the bullshitter is not concerned with consistency between what they're saying at the moment, and anything they've previously said. Consequently, "the bullsh!tter is faking things, but that does not necessarily mean he gets them wrong."[2] He simply doesn't care. In contrast, the liar must know the truth of the matter under discussion in order to better conceal it from the listener or the reader being deceived with a lie, while the bullsh!tter"s sole concern is personal advancement and advantage to his or her agenda. Bullsh!t thus is a greater enemy of the truth than are lies.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,137
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8/8/2014 7:13:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:28:09 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:01:19 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

1 Peter 3:14-14
But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

The Bible tells you to defend your faith. You cannot defend your beliefs until you know where they are being attacked. You've got to listen as well as transmit. That would pretty much be debate, right? Oh, and, you should be gentle and reverant while your at it. So far, you have been an embarrassment to other Christians around here due to your hostile dogma. (At least, I feel embarrassed for them.) Do better, sir.

Well, I'm willing to concede that I'm not always gentle.

But you're WRONG about what it means to give a defense.

It does NOT mean to have formal debates, or to be a relativist, or to compromise on doctrine at all.

It means to be a WITNESS to the TRUTH.

A WITNESS is someone who TESTIFIES to what he KNOWS and/or EXPERIENCED.

You can testify what your have experienced, sure, but what you know about god is the same as every other human: unverifiable.

That's exactly what I'm doing.
I'm in NO WAY commanded to DEBATE or DISCUSS with anyone.

Yes, you are. The verse I gave you does not command you to have a one-sided conversation (preach) with/to anyone who asks for your account. Give and take, sir.

To do such would IMPLY that the Scriptures are DEBATABLE.
Or that they can be DISCUSSED, like the NEWS.
Which they're NOT.

The scriptures ARE debatable. Even if I agree scriptures are 'god breathed' (which I don't), there is no such thing as a 'god breathed' interpretation. This is more than obvious when one looks at how many different interpretations Christians subscribe to. Dogmatism is a sign of a naive or insecure individual, IMO.

The Word of God is not the news, or the weather, or philosophy.
It's not to be DEBATED or DISCUSSED, but PROCLAIMED.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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8/8/2014 7:21:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

I'm not afraid, and I'm not a "BS'er."

And I most certainly do care about the truth.

I don't want to debate you.
It's not worth my time.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?
BradK
Posts: 475
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8/8/2014 7:30:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 6:28:09 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 6:01:19 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

1 Peter 3:14-14
But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

The Bible tells you to defend your faith. You cannot defend your beliefs until you know where they are being attacked. You've got to listen as well as transmit. That would pretty much be debate, right? Oh, and, you should be gentle and reverant while your at it. So far, you have been an embarrassment to other Christians around here due to your hostile dogma. (At least, I feel embarrassed for them.) Do better, sir.

Well, I'm willing to concede that I'm not always gentle.

But you're WRONG about what it means to give a defense.

It does NOT mean to have formal debates, or to be a relativist, or to compromise on doctrine at all.

It means to be a WITNESS to the TRUTH.

A WITNESS is someone who TESTIFIES to what he KNOWS and/or EXPERIENCED.

That's exactly what I'm doing.
I'm in NO WAY commanded to DEBATE or DISCUSS with anyone.

To do such would IMPLY that the Scriptures are DEBATABLE.
Or that they can be DISCUSSED, like the NEWS.
Which they're NOT.

The Word of God is not the news, or the weather, or philosophy.
It's not to be DEBATED or DISCUSSED, but PROCLAIMED.

Well if it's just something that's meant to be shouted at people without being questioned...

.... you know what I'm gonna say right?

and the idea that christianity is truth is just your personal opinion. Opinions aren't worth much unless they also happen to be backed up by some sort of evidence. It should be clear from the opinions of muslims that christianity is false, and the opinions of christians that islam is false, that it's all just opinions and there are no truths.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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8/8/2014 7:31:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:21:17 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

I'm not afraid, and I'm not a "BS'er."

And I most certainly do care about the truth.

I don't want to debate you.
It's not worth my time.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

If you don't want to debate, then why are you on Debate.org?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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8/8/2014 7:35:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:31:19 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:21:17 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

I'm not afraid, and I'm not a "BS'er."

And I most certainly do care about the truth.

I don't want to debate you.
It's not worth my time.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

If you don't want to debate, then why are you on Debate.org?

The forums are not specifically for debating.

If they were, then I would leave.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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8/8/2014 7:45:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:35:45 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:31:19 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:21:17 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

I'm not afraid, and I'm not a "BS'er."

And I most certainly do care about the truth.

I don't want to debate you.
It's not worth my time.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

If you don't want to debate, then why are you on Debate.org?

The forums are not specifically for debating.

If they were, then I would leave.

Forums are for informal debate and discussion. If you don't want people to debate/discuss with you over your views, then you should go to a different site.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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8/8/2014 7:53:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:21:17 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

I'm not afraid, and I'm not a "BS'er."

And I most certainly do care about the truth.

I don't want to debate you.
It's not worth my time.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

I don't really care that you don't want to debate me, it's that you don't want to debate anyone at all that is the issue.

Which horn of the dilemma do you accept? The first or the second?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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8/8/2014 8:05:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:53:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:21:17 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

I'm not afraid, and I'm not a "BS'er."

And I most certainly do care about the truth.

I don't want to debate you.
It's not worth my time.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

I don't really care that you don't want to debate me, it's that you don't want to debate anyone at all that is the issue.

Which horn of the dilemma do you accept? The first or the second?

Your making a little bit too much sense here, are you sure your not a hellbound atheist ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Keltron
Posts: 161
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8/8/2014 9:13:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 2:10:02 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:45:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:35:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

According to your doctrine, there's not much point in "declaring the truth of the Scriptures" at all. If God wants 'em saved, he'll save 'em. He's sovereign. If God wants 'em lost, he'll lose them. Your preaching makes not a whit of difference.

Well, that just reveals your ignorance.

The very MEANS God appointed to bring sinners to repentance IS the PREACHING of the Gospel.

Good. I believe that. We can thus eliminate any direct, literal, actual, miraculous "enlightenment" or "illumination" or "drawing" on the part of God. At least you are starting to believe that the word of God is sufficient.

So, preaching is not in vain.
Not at all.

But debate and discussion are completely in vain.

And it's because you're LOST that you ignore preaching, and do nothing but debate.

This is a debate site, and I'm merely pointing out your errors.

You are LOST.
Come to Christ and be saved.



Christ said:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." (John 6:37)

Sir, the ironic thing is that YOU are most likely the one who is lost. You are a rank sectarian who runs around telling people that God directly, literally, actually, and miraculously "enlightens" people, as if the word of God is not good enough. It's always "the word, plus" with you. Always. You relegate the word of God to the rank of a dead letter. And you double-talk while doing it.

You'll say, "God illuminated me". How? Well, if he did so at all, He did it through the word. You'll say, "God drew me". How? Well, if He did so at all, He drew you through the gospel.

In fact, in conviction and conversion, you ... get this good ... you can't name one single thing that God effects upon the hearts and mind of men that is not produced by the word of God. Thus God operates through the word - and in no other way. No miraculous "drawing". No better-felt-than-explained "feelings". Nada. Try it.

I take your point, but the fact is that everyone is reliant on commentary, and therein lies the original bias.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/8/2014 9:18:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 9:13:33 PM, Keltron wrote:
At 8/8/2014 2:10:02 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:45:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 1:35:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/8/2014 12:53:03 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
The doctrine of Christ can only be preached and declared with boldness and utter dogmatism.

There's nothing more useless than discussing the depraved imaginations and ideas of unregenerate men.

Their so-called "logic" is incapable of grasping any real truth, so you can't debate or discuss anything with them.

All you can do is declare to them the truth of the Scriptures, and leave both vengeance and mercy to God.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but to us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

According to your doctrine, there's not much point in "declaring the truth of the Scriptures" at all. If God wants 'em saved, he'll save 'em. He's sovereign. If God wants 'em lost, he'll lose them. Your preaching makes not a whit of difference.

Well, that just reveals your ignorance.

The very MEANS God appointed to bring sinners to repentance IS the PREACHING of the Gospel.

Good. I believe that. We can thus eliminate any direct, literal, actual, miraculous "enlightenment" or "illumination" or "drawing" on the part of God. At least you are starting to believe that the word of God is sufficient.

So, preaching is not in vain.
Not at all.

But debate and discussion are completely in vain.

And it's because you're LOST that you ignore preaching, and do nothing but debate.

This is a debate site, and I'm merely pointing out your errors.

You are LOST.
Come to Christ and be saved.



Christ said:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." (John 6:37)

Sir, the ironic thing is that YOU are most likely the one who is lost. You are a rank sectarian who runs around telling people that God directly, literally, actually, and miraculously "enlightens" people, as if the word of God is not good enough. It's always "the word, plus" with you. Always. You relegate the word of God to the rank of a dead letter. And you double-talk while doing it.

You'll say, "God illuminated me". How? Well, if he did so at all, He did it through the word. You'll say, "God drew me". How? Well, if He did so at all, He drew you through the gospel.

In fact, in conviction and conversion, you ... get this good ... you can't name one single thing that God effects upon the hearts and mind of men that is not produced by the word of God. Thus God operates through the word - and in no other way. No miraculous "drawing". No better-felt-than-explained "feelings". Nada. Try it.

I take your point, but the fact is that everyone is reliant on commentary, and therein lies the original bias.

I'm not sure what you mean by "rely on commentary".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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8/8/2014 9:49:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 7:53:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:21:17 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

I'm not afraid, and I'm not a "BS'er."

And I most certainly do care about the truth.

I don't want to debate you.
It's not worth my time.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

I don't really care that you don't want to debate me, it's that you don't want to debate anyone at all that is the issue.

Which horn of the dilemma do you accept? The first or the second?

Which horn of the false dilemma?

Neither.

Just give it up, Popgoestheweasel.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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8/9/2014 12:17:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/8/2014 8:05:15 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:53:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:21:17 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 8/8/2014 7:06:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Let me pose a dilemma for sovreigngracereigns:

If what you "proclaim" is the truth then it should hold up to all scrutiny, debate, and discussion. If it is the truth you have nothing to fear from debating it.
If it is not true, then you should want to know that, and a good way to find this out is debating and discussing with other people who will inevitably bring up things you haven't thought of.

Either way, you should debate. Which is it, sovereign? Are you afraid or do you simply not care about the truth? Are you a bs'er? (And before anyone gets riled up about my use of the word I am using it in a technical sense - i.e. that of Harry Frankfurt.)

I'm not afraid, and I'm not a "BS'er."

And I most certainly do care about the truth.

I don't want to debate you.
It's not worth my time.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

I don't really care that you don't want to debate me, it's that you don't want to debate anyone at all that is the issue.

Which horn of the dilemma do you accept? The first or the second?

Your making a little bit too much sense here, are you sure your not a hellbound atheist ?

In his eyes, probably. We're in the same boat.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!