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Can an Athiest walk the path of Christ?

Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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8/9/2014 4:20:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have not read the Bible, I do not care for the various religions that have proclaimed they are the word of God. But I do wonder, if Jesus preached Harmony, Peace, Truth, Justice, & Love, could an Atheist embrace this path? Forget the bigotry and Dogma, read DIRECT quotes from Jesus Christ. Would an Atheist be opposed to such ideas?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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8/9/2014 4:40:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 4:20:14 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I have not read the Bible, I do not care for the various religions that have proclaimed they are the word of God. But I do wonder, if Jesus preached Harmony, Peace, Truth, Justice, & Love, could an Atheist embrace this path? Forget the bigotry and Dogma, read DIRECT quotes from Jesus Christ. Would an Atheist be opposed to such ideas?

If that was what he preached, then any Tom, Dick, and Harry could walk the path.

But that is NOT AT ALL what he preached.

He preached dogmatically that he was ALMIGHTY GOD.

And he preached redemption from sin through his blood.

And he preached a whole host of things that an atheist would not believe.

So, NO, an atheist could not "walk the path of Christ". That's absurd.

But nowadays, words really have no meaning anyway, so "whatevs."

"Amiright?"
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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8/9/2014 5:08:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Could any Tom, Dick and Harry forget themselves (and die) in the name of peace? I'll need citation for that.

Did Jesus directly say he was God? I'll need citation for that.

I believe an Atheist would want to live a full life; A life devoid of lies and pleasure that leads to perpetual pain on Earth. As an Atheist I believe in humanity, no God will save us, humans must fight for the future.

In that effort, I wonder would an Atheist reject the direct harmonious preaching's of Jesus Christ? I don't ask that you accept a God, but merely the idea of "turn the other cheek" and "treat a stranger as if you would treat me."

In honesty I bring this question as a rebuke of myself. I share a personal story: At a gas station I was filling up, a man asked me "Hey I"m going to [Location] could you spare me loose change?" Immediately I said "No, sorry I don't have any change." I had a $5 bill in my wallet, I reasoned with myself that a $5 bill wasn't change; therefore I had nothing to give. As I was filling up he desperately looked for others to meet his demand. I wondered to myself, "Had I treated this man as Christ, would I fell as guilty as I do?"
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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8/9/2014 8:50:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Bennett, I'm a Christian prophesy bearer in the old time Elijah Jewish tradition meaning I'm not here for any ecumenical group hug but to challenge and defeat all other religious and secular ideologies that do not bring human beings to recognize the Spirit of Christ within them. That Spirit demands Truth too so forget all that Pauline "put on the "Christian" uniform, swear allegiance to the Bible" church club crap that the other poster espouses, because it's bunk and never did make any sense. Here's what makes sense. To you and God. Whenever you ACT in a loving, forgiving, nurturing, helping, comforting manner, to another human being in real need, then it matters not a whit what you call yourself or hold as your belief system because you've Acted the Christian walk and action speaks louder than words. Jesus knew that. These phony Christians who demand Bible allegiance do not. God sees into the heart while man sees only the surface appearances.

Do the Christian walk and all else follows. You will recognize the Spirit of Goodness as "Christ" within you, your conscience in other words given a Name and a History of unfolding the Humanitarian Archetype, the Christ/Messiah, the one with the Living Waters symbolizing Life and Life more abundantly.

Pope Francis is the first Pope in Catholic Church history to actually do the Christian walk. I don't care at all for most of Catholic doctrines but as a Christian, albeit modern Gnostic, Celestial Torah Christian, I recognize someone doing the Christian walk. If an atheist does good works I don't care what he believes in, he'll recognize my efforts to do good works too and not care about why I do it as a Christian. Trade off equals respect for the Spirit of Christ in action to me.
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/9/2014 9:07:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 4:20:14 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I have not read the Bible, I do not care for the various religions that have proclaimed they are the word of God. But I do wonder, if Jesus preached Harmony, Peace, Truth, Justice, & Love, could an Atheist embrace this path? Forget the bigotry and Dogma, read DIRECT quotes from Jesus Christ. Would an Atheist be opposed to such ideas?

Hello, Bennett. Very good question to be asking, I am impressed. Here I'm going to have to re-state the question in a way that Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris bring up occassionally, and that's the question: "Is a Muslim going to Hell simply because he never heard the gospel?"

Here, Christianity cannot be entirely sure. Why? Because we can never fully understand the measure to which God is willing to forgive us. This is where the church goes wrong by saying "Homosexuals are going to Hell." Because we see from our own scriptures that every single one of us, Christian or not, DESERVE to go to Hell. There is no sinless man alive. So to what measure will God forgive?

We see that Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me" (John 14:6). So belief in Jesus as God, and by extension, belief in God seems to be necessary. However, what about those beings that recognize a higher power but don't know that it's God? They just "Know" that there is a set of objective morals (Morals that are true, regardless of time or culture). These people, I would believe, are going to heaven. However, in our case over here, we have a problem. There are now people who have heard of God's existence, but insist that He does not exist or that, if He does exist, that He is evil. These people I would wager ARE going to Hell. They can walk with all the moral groundings as a perfect being, but to hear the word of God and reject it, it looks to me, will not inherit the Kingdom of God. I do not like this, so I get on here to try and answer questions and argue those beliefs in defense of Christianity. So, any other questions you have, please don't hesitate to ask. Just bear in mind that it may take me a while to get back to you, as my schedule is chaotic

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/9/2014 10:30:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 4:20:14 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I have not read the Bible, I do not care for the various religions that have proclaimed they are the word of God. But I do wonder, if Jesus preached Harmony, Peace, Truth, Justice, & Love, could an Atheist embrace this path? Forget the bigotry and Dogma, read DIRECT quotes from Jesus Christ. Would an Atheist be opposed to such ideas?

Jesus's teachings can be summed up as love thy neighbor. You can certainly do that as an atheist. He also preached to turn the other cheek, that can be accomplished as well.

The Jews have things that non Jews can do to reach heaven. You'll have to google that.

I'd certainly be opposed to following the teachings of Jesus. They are suicidal.

Turn the other cheek could have just as easily been translated into "be a door mat".

Jesus also teaches to love everybody which actually takes away any meaning from love. If you're treating a random crackhead on the street with as much love as you do your child it's going to force you to go broke and e in the same position.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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8/9/2014 11:16:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 9:07:58 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/9/2014 4:20:14 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I have not read the Bible, I do not care for the various religions that have proclaimed they are the word of God. But I do wonder, if Jesus preached Harmony, Peace, Truth, Justice, & Love, could an Atheist embrace this path? Forget the bigotry and Dogma, read DIRECT quotes from Jesus Christ. Would an Atheist be opposed to such ideas?

Hello, Bennett. Very good question to be asking, I am impressed. Here I'm going to have to re-state the question in a way that Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris bring up occassionally, and that's the question: "Is a Muslim going to Hell simply because he never heard the gospel?"

Here, Christianity cannot be entirely sure. Why? Because we can never fully understand the measure to which God is willing to forgive us. This is where the church goes wrong by saying "Homosexuals are going to Hell." Because we see from our own scriptures that every single one of us, Christian or not, DESERVE to go to Hell. There is no sinless man alive. So to what measure will God forgive?

We see that Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me" (John 14:6). So belief in Jesus as God, and by extension, belief in God seems to be necessary. However, what about those beings that recognize a higher power but don't know that it's God? They just "Know" that there is a set of objective morals (Morals that are true, regardless of time or culture). These people, I would believe, are going to heaven. However, in our case over here, we have a problem. There are now people who have heard of God's existence, but insist that He does not exist or that, if He does exist, that He is evil. These people I would wager ARE going to Hell. They can walk with all the moral groundings as a perfect being, but to hear the word of God and reject it, it looks to me, will not inherit the Kingdom of God. I do not like this, so I get on here to try and answer questions and argue those beliefs in defense of Christianity. So, any other questions you have, please don't hesitate to ask. Just bear in mind that it may take me a while to get back to you, as my schedule is chaotic


August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

beliefs in defense of Christianity. So, any other questions you have, please don't hesitate to ask. Just bear in mind that it may take me a while to get back to you, as my schedule is chaotic


August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

You said:
"So belief in Jesus as God, and by extension, belief in God seems to be necessary. However, what about those beings that recognize a higher power but don't know that it's God? They just "Know" that there is a set of objective morals (Morals that are true, regardless of time or culture). These people, I would believe, are going to heaven."

That's not true. God requires absolute, perfect submission and obedience from everyone, and everyone has failed to produce this.
And so God's wrath is against all men, who by nature, hate God, and who try (in vain) to rob God of the glory he deserves.

The fact that people in every culture have morals proves that they have a God-given conscience that can distinguish right from wrong. And therefore, they are responsible moral agents (Romans 2:14-15).
And their conscience condemns them when they do wrong, and they sense the impending judgment of God intuitively, so anyone who says they don't believe in God is a liar.
Furthermore, they see God's attributes in the creation intuitively, namely his eternal power and Godhead.But they refuse to give him glory, and instead, worship other things.Men worship nature, and themselves, and gods of their own imagination, rather than the true God, and for that, they are justly condemned.
Even the so-called "atheist" worships himself, or his will, or his possessions, or something. All the fallen sons of Adam are idolaters by nature.

All of this is declared in Romans, Chapter 1.

Romans 1:18-25
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man"and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


That's how man got in the state he's in. First, through the fall of Adam, then in the lives of each individual. We're all born sinners, and are in desperate need of a Savior.

Now, the Gospel of salvation through the finished work of Jesus Christ, is being preached throughout the world by the mercy of God.
NO, not EACH and EVERY person in the world has had the privilege of hearing it.

But again, it's a PRIVELEGE. God doesn't OWE it to ANYONE. Yet, in his mercy, God has sent messengers, with the Gospel, to multitudes.
And yet, Man, in his natural state, despises God, and the mercy of God. He'd rather trust in his own works, then rest in God's works.
He'd rather "take up arms" against God, then bow to God's will!In fact, even with the threat of Hell, the natural man still refuses to bow. And for THAT, he's also condemned, on top of everything else.

You said:
"Because we see from our own scriptures that every single one of us, Christian or not, DESERVE to go to Hell. There is no sinless man alive. So to what measure will God forgive?"

Yes, we all deserve Hell, but God in his grace, has redeemed a people.
He redeemed a particular people, from out of all nations, through the sacrificial death of his Son.
His perfect righteousness was charged to their account, and their sins were charged to his. And he paid the penalty for their sins -- He suffered the wrath of God, and he died, and was buried. Then after three days in the grave, he ROSE AGAIN, without sin, triumphant over death.
And ALL for whom he died, were justified (declared righteous) in him, and in time, they're made aware of this fact.
Each one of God's people is born a sinner like the rest, but in time, they hear the Gospel and believe. God's Spirit assures them through the Gospel that their sins are put away, and that they are accepted by God through the Savior.

THAT is the only way for God to be JUST, and yet JUSTIFY a sinner: through faith in Jesus Christ, wrought in a sinner by the Spirit of God.

Romans 3:21-26:
21 "But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/9/2014 11:40:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 11:16:04 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

I am sorry to say that the box wasn't big enough for me to fit your response as well as mine, so hopefully no one has responded since yours.

You make a good argument based on the wicked nature of man, but you refuse to acknowledge the depth of God's forgiveness. Now, will an entire generation of Muslims go to Hell because they never heard the gospel? It's entirely possible. But we cannot know for sure, as we do not understand the depth of God's forgiveness.

Your first recitation was actually one that speaks out against those who worship false gods and who have actively DENIED God. For someone to have never heard of God is not necessarily to deny Him.

What is more, the bible says that, to the hard of heart, they will deny God even when they reach judgment and God stands before them. This is another instance where denial of God is placed at the highest of pedestals. And what of unborn children? How can they go to heaven if they have not heard the word? It is my belief that they go to heaven as well, if it had been in their hearts to accept God's word had they lived (which points more towards God's omniscience). So let us apply that here as well: If they were to be presented with the gospel and accept it, then they would go to heaven. However, since they were not given that opportunity in life, then God's omniscience is utilized here. God knows whether or not that person WOULD HAVE accepted the gospel had they heard it, and so allows them in. However, to those who did or would have rejected the gospel, then regardless of their moral standards, they are punished by the truly unfortunate sentence (Which even God does not want for anyone) of eternity in Hell.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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8/9/2014 1:42:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Thank you celestialtorahteacher, your words have shown me an Atheist can walk the path of Christ. One does not need believe in a God, but simply be giving towards their fellow man as Christ was.

@Arasa, the majority of your post is just as celestialtorahteacher said, you plead Bible loyalty over loyalty to our fellow man. The only merit your post has is the direct quote from Jesus, "I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me" (John 14:6)" You interpret this literally, that one must worship Jesus to ascend to Heaven. Jesus did not say he was God, he says his way is the path, and if one acts as him they will be on the path. I believe one doesn't need to believe in the divinity of Christ to walk this path. Muslims do not need to hear the Gospel to walk the path.

@Wylted, you are the one wish to reach. We are both Atheists, but I ask that you accept the possibility of Christ's wisdom. Christ was indeed a door mat, he let the Roman's crucify him without contention. But in this act he spawned a movement that preached his message of Harmony, Peace, Truth, Justice, & Love. Yes this message has been corrupted, but I sense you are not against the idea's of Christ. It's hard to trust people these days, I know. But do you think a Christ-like person could survive today? Or is man simply so irredeemable that any showing of weakness, love or compassion towards one's enemies would be suicide?

@sovereigngracereigns, you are a reiteration of Bible loyalty. You did not directly quote Jesus. Submission was not a message of Christ, he was not a conqueror. He simply shined a light on a better path in a dark world. You say that we are all born sinners and that we all deserve to go to Hell, this is illogical even by Christian standards. No babe is guilty. They come to this world seeking knowledge and love. If anything can be said it is children who walk the path only to be diverted by false prophets. Hell may not be a literal place, but Hell is real. Hell is a place of our own making. Hell is war, poverty and strife. I felt a measure of Hell by denying that man gas money.
Cryo
Posts: 202
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8/9/2014 4:23:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 4:20:14 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I have not read the Bible, I do not care for the various religions that have proclaimed they are the word of God. But I do wonder, if Jesus preached Harmony, Peace, Truth, Justice, & Love, could an Atheist embrace this path? Forget the bigotry and Dogma, read DIRECT quotes from Jesus Christ. Would an Atheist be opposed to such ideas?

Absolutely, in a way. If you take away the religion and just focus on the nice things Jesus said, then it's no different from following any other philosophy or advice column. You can pick and choose what you like and leave out the things you don't. At that point you don't even need to prove that he was a historical figure either, because whether he existed or not doesn't change the message, from an atheist perspective at least.

It'd be no different from taking life lessons from mythology or a fairy tale.