Total Posts:8|Showing Posts:1-8
Jump to topic:

Atheist Superiority

RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,382
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2014 11:36:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
1. Atheists on average have a higher IQ.

The problem here is that it's difficult to gather stats of atheists because they have no formal corporate gathering like a church. Before I became a believer, I considered myself an atheist (although agnostic would have been more appropriate.). If I had taken part in a poll, I would have checked the atheist box. However, how would they have found me? Christians on the other hand are easy to find because they do tend to attend, and are members of churches.

The atheists that are easy to find are generally activist, and thus of a higher profile. And atheist activists are often college educated, and colleges tend to be a platform at times for their activism. Churches on the other hand possess a wide variety of status including of course education.

2. Atheists on average know the Bible better than Christians.

Same principle. Atheist activist organizations also tend to have a significant number of former Christians including ministers. In churches however, members attend for multiple reasons. Some of it for more casual reasons like family tradition, looking for a mate, etc. And interest in the Bible itself may be very limited in these cases. There are also new converts who although are interested in the Bible, it's something new to them, so comparing them with atheists who've read and studied the Bible certainly wouldn't be fair to add in the equation.

3. Atheists on average divorce less than Christians.

This can be a tricky one. For one, sometimes ministers use this as sort of a rebuke against Christians as a whole. And, apparently these stats include professing born again Christians. However, what stats also show is that those who actively practice/apply religion (disciplined lifestyle) tend to divorce less than anyone else. And Christianity for one requires a disciplined lifestyle.

4. Atheists on average are less likely to go to prison.

This is a very interesting one. The idea here is that because there are less atheists in prison, they are less likely to commit a crime. And of course in the U.S. we can expect most of the incarcerated to identify themselves as a Christian, or with one of the Christian denominations.

Here's the problem (as far as Christianity goes); there is also a significant number of converts in American prisons to Christianity. So who are all of these prison converts? Are they all atheists? Doubtful (although I'm sure some are). Logically we can assume that many of them are the one's who check the Christian box, or identify with a denomination. The interesting thing about Christianity, particularly in the U.S., is that a number of converts to Christianity are.......Christians. That is, those who traditionally identify with the religion, almost like an ethnicity, and then experiencing a spiritual life changing transformation as a result of finding out that Jesus Christ is actually real, not just an icon hanging in the living room wall.

5. Atheist nations on average are more peaceful than Christian/religious nations.

Another interesting one. A major problem here is that there really is no such thing as an atheist nation. So what is generally meant here is a nation that is of course secular, and on average has a lower church attendance record. Possibly the majority of it's citizens not a part of a church. However these nations historically were never major players in world wars. New Zealand is at the top of the list of supposed atheist nations. But although NZ is not historically a warring nation, we can't claim that human rights in relation to the Maoris was never, or is not an issue.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,382
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2014 11:56:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 11:36:47 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
1. Atheists on average have a higher IQ.

The problem here is that it's difficult to gather stats of atheists because they have no formal corporate gathering like a church. Before I became a believer, I considered myself an atheist (although agnostic would have been more appropriate.). If I had taken part in a poll, I would have checked the atheist box. However, how would they have found me? Christians on the other hand are easy to find because they do tend to attend, and are members of churches.

The atheists that are easy to find are generally activist, and thus of a higher profile. And atheist activists are often college educated, and colleges tend to be a platform at times for their activism. Churches on the other hand possess a wide variety of status including of course education.

2. Atheists on average know the Bible better than Christians.

Same principle. Atheist activist organizations also tend to have a significant number of former Christians including ministers. In churches however, members attend for multiple reasons. Some of it for more casual reasons like family tradition, looking for a mate, etc. And interest in the Bible itself may be very limited in these cases. There are also new converts who although are interested in the Bible, it's something new to them, so comparing them with atheists who've read and studied the Bible certainly wouldn't be fair to add in the equation.

3. Atheists on average divorce less than Christians.

This can be a tricky one. For one, sometimes ministers use this as sort of a rebuke against Christians as a whole. And, apparently these stats include professing born again Christians. However, what stats also show is that those who actively practice/apply religion (disciplined lifestyle) tend to divorce less than anyone else. And Christianity for one requires a disciplined lifestyle.

4. Atheists on average are less likely to go to prison.

This is a very interesting one. The idea here is that because there are less atheists in prison, they are less likely to commit a crime. And of course in the U.S. we can expect most of the incarcerated to identify themselves as a Christian, or with one of the Christian denominations.

Here's the problem (as far as Christianity goes); there is also a significant number of converts in American prisons to Christianity. So who are all of these prison converts? Are they all atheists? Doubtful (although I'm sure some are). Logically we can assume that many of them are the one's who check the Christian box, or identify with a denomination. The interesting thing about Christianity, particularly in the U.S., is that a number of converts to Christianity are.......Christians. That is, those who traditionally identify with the religion, almost like an ethnicity, and then experiencing a spiritual life changing transformation as a result of finding out that Jesus Christ is actually real, not just an icon hanging in the living room wall.

5. Atheist nations on average are more peaceful than Christian/religious nations.

Another interesting one. A major problem here is that there really is no such thing as an atheist nation*. So what is generally meant here is a nation that is of course secular, and on average has a lower church attendance record. Possibly the majority of it's citizens not a part of a church. However these nations historically were never major players in world wars. New Zealand is at the top of the list of supposed atheist nations. But although NZ is not historically a warring nation, we can't claim that human rights in relation to the Maoris was never, or is not an issue.

*Of course if one really wants to make the claim that a nation like NZ is an atheist nation, what's to prevent us from referring to China, North Korea, etc. as atheist nations, all of which are not peaceful, and have a relatively low church attendance record
AndDontCallMeShirley
Posts: 7
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2014 12:18:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would never say that this circumstantial stuff makes atheists superior or inferior. How ideas are used and misused in practice is of little concern to me... and it shouldn't matter all that much, really.

To me, an epistemology-based superiority comes from having a mind that more closely reflects the truth of our metaphysical reality. This is why I believe atheists are superior.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,382
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2014 12:29:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 12:18:28 PM, AndDontCallMeShirley wrote:
I would never say that this circumstantial stuff makes atheists superior or inferior. How ideas are used and misused in practice is of little concern to me... and it shouldn't matter all that much, really.

To me, an epistemology-based superiority comes from having a mind that more closely reflects the truth of our metaphysical reality. This is why I believe atheists are superior.
But who are you referring to when you say atheists? Are you including the one's who believe in Bigfoot? How about the one's working in auto salvage yards who think the Great Wall is in Japan? Who think Africa is a country?
AndDontCallMeShirley
Posts: 7
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2014 12:32:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Fair enough. To rephrase, atheism itself is a superior worldview in itself, regardless of the other ideas that some atheists may believe in.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,382
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/9/2014 1:55:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 12:32:13 PM, AndDontCallMeShirley wrote:
Fair enough. To rephrase, atheism itself is a superior worldview in itself, regardless of the other ideas that some atheists may believe in.
Yes, atheism being a superior worldview is different than atheists being superior. That latter would go back to the IQ issue, and how it could be properly measured.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/18/2014 7:12:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/9/2014 12:32:13 PM, AndDontCallMeShirley wrote:
Fair enough. To rephrase, atheism itself is a superior worldview in itself, regardless of the other ideas that some atheists may believe in.

But this is circular reasoning. Atheism claims only the material world exists, and then concludes that any worldview which conforms to the first claim is "superior". That is logically no different than claiming that the world is an illusion and then concluding that BoG has a "superior" worldview.

In each case, "superior" simply means, "in agreement with my premise".

Is the initial premise of atheist dogma true? Is it logical? Does it make sense?