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Taking Questions for Christianity here

Arasa
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8/10/2014 4:41:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hello, everyone. As you know, I have been participating in the forums lately here on Debate.org, and what I have noticed is that there are a lot of arguments between Theism and non-theism, as well as arguments between different religions.
To an outsider who wished to learn more about the different beliefs, these forums do not look like a very good place to search. I think that this attitude goes against the purpose of these forums.

So, for anyone who has an honest question about what Christianity believes, and is not trying to start a fight, I will try my best to answer them. For example, you may be curious what Christians believe happens after death, or why God allows sin, or if God's allowance of sin makes Him evil.

These questions and more, I will answer. I will ask, however, that others refrain from taking it upon themselves to answer the questions for me. If a Christian disagrees with what I say, then by all means, say so briefly, but state your argument in a private message to me. This is not a topic for argument, but for helping to explain Christianity in an open and friendly way.

That being said, any questions on what Christianity believes?

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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8/10/2014 6:58:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Who ever gave you authority to speak for Christianity? What are your credentials for speaking for Christ? I don't want you polluting this forum with passe dead end Pauline Christian ideas that are rightfully facing their End Times along with all Abrahamic religions based on the Hebrew Bible stories. If you don't know that the Bible has been thoroughly debunked by Israeli archeologists as spiritual authority because of the vast amount of lies and liars promoting lies in it. All along priests were promoting religious lies and it's got to stop now because Christianity is to be based on truth, not religious propaganda no matter how hoary with age and accumulated pomp and ritual.

I speak for God as a Jewish Christian prophesy bearer whose spiritual works are recognized by religious authorities such as the Archbishop of the Holy Land Dioceses. I teach a new yet very old Christian theology, Celestial Torah Christianity, and that it among my religious visions and revelations that mark a true Voice of God, because the true Voice brings authentic Revelation and not cut-n-paste repetition of ancient other men's experiences of God.

Please don't think you can speak for God or the Spirit of Christ without having proper credentials to do that job, the Job of the Jew. As salvation is of us Jews.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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8/10/2014 7:08:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/10/2014 4:41:04 PM, Arasa wrote:
Hello, everyone. As you know, I have been participating in the forums lately here on Debate.org, and what I have noticed is that there are a lot of arguments between Theism and non-theism, as well as arguments between different religions.
To an outsider who wished to learn more about the different beliefs, these forums do not look like a very good place to search. I think that this attitude goes against the purpose of these forums.

So, for anyone who has an honest question about what Christianity believes, and is not trying to start a fight, I will try my best to answer them. For example, you may be curious what Christians believe happens after death, or why God allows sin, or if God's allowance of sin makes Him evil.

These questions and more, I will answer. I will ask, however, that others refrain from taking it upon themselves to answer the questions for me. If a Christian disagrees with what I say, then by all means, say so briefly, but state your argument in a private message to me. This is not a topic for argument, but for helping to explain Christianity in an open and friendly way.

That being said, any questions on what Christianity believes?


August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Seeing as how many Christians have different views of God/Religion/ect, do you think that God has poor communication skills or that you are special and everyone else is wrong?
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/10/2014 7:08:25 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 8/10/2014 4:41:04 PM, Arasa wrote:
Hello, everyone. As you know, I have been participating in the forums lately here on Debate.org, and what I have noticed is that there are a lot of arguments between Theism and non-theism, as well as arguments between different religions.
To an outsider who wished to learn more about the different beliefs, these forums do not look like a very good place to search. I think that this attitude goes against the purpose of these forums.

So, for anyone who has an honest question about what Christianity believes, and is not trying to start a fight, I will try my best to answer them. For example, you may be curious what Christians believe happens after death, or why God allows sin, or if God's allowance of sin makes Him evil.

These questions and more, I will answer. I will ask, however, that others refrain from taking it upon themselves to answer the questions for me. If a Christian disagrees with what I say, then by all means, say so briefly, but state your argument in a private message to me. This is not a topic for argument, but for helping to explain Christianity in an open and friendly way.

That being said, any questions on what Christianity believes?


August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Seeing as how many Christians have different views of God/Religion/ect, do you think that God has poor communication skills or that you are special and everyone else is wrong?

It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance (meaning that the differences between them are not cause for loss of salvation). I also believe that God has wonderfully effective communication skills, and He does the majority of this through people. Looking through the old testament, we see God using the Israelite army as his hands for judgment, we see God using the prophets as his voice, and the Judges as his messenger (The two are not identical).

As for everyone else being wrong, I can't tell if you're asking about other religions, or other denominations within Christianity, or simply every single other person on the planet. As such, I will try to answer the first...

We see in Jesus' teaching that those whose hearts have been hardened will die and come to the father for judgment, same as everyone. However, the difference is that even in the presence of God, the person in question will STILL reject God and His existence. So what we see here is not a lack of communication, but a lack of an accepting heart on the count of the person.

I hope I was able to answer your question! If not, let me know

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 3:41:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/10/2014 6:58:38 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Who ever gave you authority to speak for Christianity? What are your credentials for speaking for Christ? I don't want you polluting this forum with passe dead end Pauline Christian ideas that are rightfully facing their End Times along with all Abrahamic religions based on the Hebrew Bible stories. If you don't know that the Bible has been thoroughly debunked by Israeli archeologists as spiritual authority because of the vast amount of lies and liars promoting lies in it. All along priests were promoting religious lies and it's got to stop now because Christianity is to be based on truth, not religious propaganda no matter how hoary with age and accumulated pomp and ritual.

I speak for God as a Jewish Christian prophesy bearer whose spiritual works are recognized by religious authorities such as the Archbishop of the Holy Land Dioceses. I teach a new yet very old Christian theology, Celestial Torah Christianity, and that it among my religious visions and revelations that mark a true Voice of God, because the true Voice brings authentic Revelation and not cut-n-paste repetition of ancient other men's experiences of God.

Please don't think you can speak for God or the Spirit of Christ without having proper credentials to do that job, the Job of the Jew. As salvation is of us Jews.

I think you confuse what is going on here... I do not claim to speak for God. I claim to have a wide understanding of Christianity, and so I am in a position to answer most questions that someone who does not understand Christianity would ask.

If you'd like to answer questions about Judaism or the reformed Judaism to which you belong, then I would encourage you to start your own forum for that very purpose.

If you have further response to this, please don't hesitate to private message me, please do not turn this feed into an argument, as that is what I am trying to avoid here.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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8/11/2014 3:51:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Do you believe that eternal suffering and torture in hell is compatible with an all-loving God?

Why were books of scripture decided by cardinal vote, why are canonical books missing, and why have accepted books of the bible changed so many times over the years?
freethought.mbdojo.com/canon.html

Do you believe there are any explicit contradictions in the bible?

Do you believe that evolution is incompatible with Christianity?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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8/11/2014 4:02:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
EDIT: In regard to my last question you've answered it in another post that I just read.
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 4:27:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 3:51:20 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that eternal suffering and torture in hell is compatible with an all-loving God?

Why were books of scripture decided by cardinal vote, why are canonical books missing, and why have accepted books of the bible changed so many times over the years?
freethought.mbdojo.com/canon.html

Do you believe there are any explicit contradictions in the bible?

Do you believe that evolution is incompatible with Christianity?

Four questions, I shall try to answer them all in a somewhat brief manner...
1. I most certainly do believe that they are compatible. God gave mankind free will- that is, the freedom to deny and reject Him. God also gave mankind the law by which they could go to heaven, although we see that no one is capable of following each and every law. Think of a parent here... A parent loves their child unconditionally and with all their heart. But even parents punish their children when necessary, and in these events, the punishment fits the severity of the rule broken. The parent might even give their child a warning- "Don't do this, or this will be the punishment" and we see God do the same thing.

2. This is a very good question! We see for example, the proposed gospel of Thomas brought to the council. Now, picking the books of the bible was no easy task, but why? Mostly because there were books written by people who did not have the best intentions or did not have the Power to speak for God. We see that Jesus gives the disciples power to speak in His name, and so each book written by the disciples, as well as the apostle Paul (Who was given power by God directly) are immediately accepted. These other books, like Thomas, are either written by someone who was not given power, or the major implications of the book are aimed at reforming or changing the teachings of Jesus. However, in an attempt to not leave it up to one person to decide whether or not a book was the actual word of God, they put it up to a vote. As for why Protestants denied the additional books that the Catholic church added, this found in the writers of these books. The books were written by important people to the faith, but NOT by anyone who was said to have received the power to speak for God. These books are more of historical content than scripture, according to a Protestant.

3. As for explicit contradictions, I would hesitate to say no, there aren't. The one time that it would appear to be an explicit contradiction is between Jesus proclaiming the God of love, and 1 Samuel 14 in which God orders the complete and utter destruction of a people. It would appear to be a contradiction, but many of the apparent contradictions that you would hear about are indeed not contradictions, but a lack of understanding of the context in which something was said. If you have any specific contradictions to point out, please do not hesitate to do so, and I will try to clear them up.

4. Do I believe that Evolution is incompatible with Christianity? Of course not. If we look back, we see that the church believed that Galileo's theory that the earth revolved around the sun was in direct contradiction to the bible, and therefore Christianity. After it was proven beyond a doubt that the earth did revolve around the sun, the church took a step back and realized "Oh, wait, we don't actually have scriptural backing for why this is anti-Christian." Indeed, even Galileo was a Christian and he found no conflict between the two. Here again, we see it with Evolution, only this time we do have scripture. However, what we have is scripture that, upon examination, seems very likely that it is meant to be taken figuratively and not completely literally. For example, before creation, the world was dark. Then God creates light. But then He separates the light and the darkness. Why is this necessary if there is already a separation? What it appears to mean is that this is where God creates time. Then we see the word "Yom" used for "Day" but Yom does not necessarily mean Day, but a rising of the morning sun. We then see that the seventh day is never said to have ended. So are we living out existence in the seventh day? It's entirely possible, which could very well make the universe billions or trillions of years old.
For evolution itself, it says in Genesis that Man was created from the dust, but later in I think Ecclesiastes, it says that both man and animal were created from the dust, and from dust they came and to dust they shall return. So we could definitely infer that evolution is a plausible theory.

If you have any more questions, or if it seems like I haven't actually answered your questions, please don't hesitate to let me know!

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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8/11/2014 4:50:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 4:27:08 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:51:20 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that eternal suffering and torture in hell is compatible with an all-loving God?

Why were books of scripture decided by cardinal vote, why are canonical books missing, and why have accepted books of the bible changed so many times over the years?
freethought.mbdojo.com/canon.html

Do you believe there are any explicit contradictions in the bible?

Do you believe that evolution is incompatible with Christianity?

Four questions, I shall try to answer them all in a somewhat brief manner...
1. I most certainly do believe that they are compatible. God gave mankind free will- that is, the freedom to deny and reject Him. God also gave mankind the law by which they could go to heaven, although we see that no one is capable of following each and every law. Think of a parent here... A parent loves their child unconditionally and with all their heart. But even parents punish their children when necessary, and in these events, the punishment fits the severity of the rule broken. The parent might even give their child a warning- "Don't do this, or this will be the punishment" and we see God do the same thing.

I have a few concerns with this. (1) mankind was not given the foreknowledge to know their punishment in the afterlife for rejecting God. Any reasonable, sane person would wish to have never been born rather than taking a chance at suffering eternally in hell. Punishment from a parent to a child is used to discipline for the sake of bettering the child. What good does torture for eternity do? Is the sinner any more reconciled with God after 1 billion years? Does God say "no, 1 billion years of torture.. that's not quite enough"? (2) if God is omniscient, then human beings only actualize an existence foreknown by God. How could free will possibly exist? It would be illusory. This means that God knows each individual that is going to hell and knows that they're going to hell before they're ever created.

2. This is a very good question! We see for example, the proposed gospel of Thomas brought to the council. Now, picking the books of the bible was no easy task, but why? Mostly because there were books written by people who did not have the best intentions or did not have the Power to speak for God. We see that Jesus gives the disciples power to speak in His name, and so each book written by the disciples, as well as the apostle Paul (Who was given power by God directly) are immediately accepted. These other books, like Thomas, are either written by someone who was not given power, or the major implications of the book are aimed at reforming or changing the teachings of Jesus. However, in an attempt to not leave it up to one person to decide whether or not a book was the actual word of God, they put it up to a vote. As for why Protestants denied the additional books that the Catholic church added, this found in the writers of these books. The books were written by important people to the faith, but NOT by anyone who was said to have received the power to speak for God. These books are more of historical content than scripture, according to a Protestant.

But why is a vote the deciding factor on what is and isn't the word of God? And why are canonical scriptures missing? If a council meets again and decides to remove a book of the bible, like revelation, (that was previously rejected for a time) would you accept the council's decision?

3. As for explicit contradictions, I would hesitate to say no, there aren't. The one time that it would appear to be an explicit contradiction is between Jesus proclaiming the God of love, and 1 Samuel 14 in which God orders the complete and utter destruction of a people. It would appear to be a contradiction, but many of the apparent contradictions that you would hear about are indeed not contradictions, but a lack of understanding of the context in which something was said. If you have any specific contradictions to point out, please do not hesitate to do so, and I will try to clear them up.

This one comes to mind: "For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12) "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)

4. Do I believe that Evolution is incompatible with Christianity? Of course not. If we look back, we see that the church believed that Galileo's theory that the earth revolved around the sun was in direct contradiction to the bible, and therefore Christianity. After it was proven beyond a doubt that the earth did revolve around the sun, the church took a step back and realized "Oh, wait, we don't actually have scriptural backing for why this is anti-Christian." Indeed, even Galileo was a Christian and he found no conflict between the two. Here again, we see it with Evolution, only this time we do have scripture. However, what we have is scripture that, upon examination, seems very likely that it is meant to be taken figuratively and not completely literally. For example, before creation, the world was dark. Then God creates light. But then He separates the light and the darkness. Why is this necessary if there is already a separation? What it appears to mean is that this is where God creates time. Then we see the word "Yom" used for "Day" but Yom does not necessarily mean Day, but a rising of the morning sun. We then see that the seventh day is never said to have ended. So are we living out existence in the seventh day? It's entirely possible, which could very well make the universe billions or trillions of years old.
For evolution itself, it says in Genesis that Man was created from the dust, but later in I think Ecclesiastes, it says that both man and animal were created from the dust, and from dust they came and to dust they shall return. So we could definitely infer that evolution is a plausible theory.

Ok, fair enough.

If you have any more questions, or if it seems like I haven't actually answered your questions, please don't hesitate to let me know!

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 5:55:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have a few concerns with this. (1) mankind was not given the foreknowledge to know their punishment in the afterlife for rejecting God. Any reasonable, sane person would wish to have never been born rather than taking a chance at suffering eternally in hell. Punishment from a parent to a child is used to discipline for the sake of bettering the child. What good does torture for eternity do? Is the sinner any more reconciled with God after 1 billion years? Does God say "no, 1 billion years of torture.. that's not quite enough"? (2) if God is omniscient, then human beings only actualize an existence foreknown by God. How could free will possibly exist? It would be illusory. This means that God knows each individual that is going to hell and knows that they're going to hell before they're ever created.

But why is a vote the deciding factor on what is and isn't the word of God? And why are canonical scriptures missing? If a council meets again and decides to remove a book of the bible, like revelation, (that was previously rejected for a time) would you accept the council's decision?

This one comes to mind: "For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12) "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)

On your first response, the Jews were given these pieces of information: All are sinners. Sin is in your nature. The door to heaven is closed to those who are wicked. However, God is merciful and will send the messiah.
So what the Jews were given was the promise that one would come to restore the kingdom to mankind (Meaning, make it accessible to mankind, as in "Opening the Door" as it were). And so in this sense, what they had was not a knowledge of Hell itself, but that there would be eternal suffering. The word given, was "Hell"
Furthermore, Catholic doctrine actually says that there is not a Hell, but purgatory. Purgatory is where you go to pay for your sins, kind of like you were saying. "You committed this many sins and in this severity, therefore you shall remain in purgatory for 1 billion years and suffer, but then you shall also go to heaven." (Keep in mind, I am not a Catholic)

Your second point is very astute. Here we find the inter-Christian argument of Free will vs Pre-destination. If you'd like to research the argument further, enter "Calvinism vs Armenianism" into your search bar. What I have, as well as a vast majority of Christianity, concluded is a mix of the two, and her it is: "God gives us the free will to do what we want, knowing full well what we will do beforehand." This does not discount God's omniscience, but free will also remains.

As for a vote concerning scripture, we see that a deciding vote is only a key factor in Catholicism. Protestantism actually rejected certain books that the catholic church added. In answer to your question about Revelation, if my church decided that Revelation was no longer scripture, then I would examine their reasons, re-examine my beliefs, and if I still concluded that Revelation was scripture, then I would leave that particular church. It sounds as though I am fitting the church into my own personal beliefs, but allow me to explain... John was given the power to speak for God by Jesus. To disregard his writing would be, consequentially, disregarding the word of God. Now, if the question were on a book like Hebrews, by whom we do not know it was written, then it would be a difficult matter indeed. Actually, Hebrews was only barely added to the Catholic bible, for this very reason.

On Jeremiah, that does at first glance, seem like a contradiction.
"For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12)
"Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)
However, what we take Jeremiah 17:4 to mean is that the result of God's anger shall burn forever- that is, those condemned to Hell will burn forever. The fire shall burn forever, but not God's anger.

If this interpretation just sounds completely ridiculous, don't hesitate to tell me.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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8/11/2014 6:29:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 5:55:53 AM, Arasa wrote:
I have a few concerns with this. (1) mankind was not given the foreknowledge to know their punishment in the afterlife for rejecting God. Any reasonable, sane person would wish to have never been born rather than taking a chance at suffering eternally in hell. Punishment from a parent to a child is used to discipline for the sake of bettering the child. What good does torture for eternity do? Is the sinner any more reconciled with God after 1 billion years? Does God say "no, 1 billion years of torture.. that's not quite enough"? (2) if God is omniscient, then human beings only actualize an existence foreknown by God. How could free will possibly exist? It would be illusory. This means that God knows each individual that is going to hell and knows that they're going to hell before they're ever created.

But why is a vote the deciding factor on what is and isn't the word of God? And why are canonical scriptures missing? If a council meets again and decides to remove a book of the bible, like revelation, (that was previously rejected for a time) would you accept the council's decision?

This one comes to mind: "For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12) "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)


On your first response, the Jews were given these pieces of information: All are sinners. Sin is in your nature. The door to heaven is closed to those who are wicked. However, God is merciful and will send the messiah.
So what the Jews were given was the promise that one would come to restore the kingdom to mankind (Meaning, make it accessible to mankind, as in "Opening the Door" as it were). And so in this sense, what they had was not a knowledge of Hell itself, but that there would be eternal suffering. The word given, was "Hell"

Why were Jews the only people who were made known that eternal torment awaits them if they don't accept God? Doesn't hell and salvation apply to everyone? If the bible is the only source of telling people that hell awaits us, and people who die who have never read the bible, how were they given foreknowledge of hell?

Furthermore, Catholic doctrine actually says that there is not a Hell, but purgatory. Purgatory is where you go to pay for your sins, kind of like you were saying. "You committed this many sins and in this severity, therefore you shall remain in purgatory for 1 billion years and suffer, but then you shall also go to heaven." (Keep in mind, I am not a Catholic)

If I made the choice to believe in the Christian God, I would find annihilationism to be the doctrine that most closely aligns with omnibenevolence. Torture for eternity is gratuitous suffering without end or reconciliation. I don't find it compatible with an all loving, merciful God unless we change our definitions of love and mercy.

Your second point is very astute. Here we find the inter-Christian argument of Free will vs Pre-destination. If you'd like to research the argument further, enter "Calvinism vs Armenianism" into your search bar. What I have, as well as a vast majority of Christianity, concluded is a mix of the two, and her it is: "God gives us the free will to do what we want, knowing full well what we will do beforehand." This does not discount God's omniscience, but free will also remains.

Free will is the choice to govern your own destiny. If God foreknows the actualized reality of your destiny, your free will as actually set by God's will. God could have the timeline of humanity on a movie tape.

As for a vote concerning scripture, we see that a deciding vote is only a key factor in Catholicism. Protestantism actually rejected certain books that the catholic church added. In answer to your question about Revelation, if my church decided that Revelation was no longer scripture, then I would examine their reasons, re-examine my beliefs, and if I still concluded that Revelation was scripture, then I would leave that particular church. It sounds as though I am fitting the church into my own personal beliefs, but allow me to explain... John was given the power to speak for God by Jesus. To disregard his writing would be, consequentially, disregarding the word of God. Now, if the question were on a book like Hebrews, by whom we do not know it was written, then it would be a difficult matter indeed. Actually, Hebrews was only barely added to the Catholic bible, for this very reason.

If books of the bible are believed on fragile grounds of changing authenticity, what makes you sure that you are reading the correct canonical bible with the correct book of scriptures? And why do you think books of the bible that are referred to as canonical were lost?

On Jeremiah, that does at first glance, seem like a contradiction.
"For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12)
"Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)
However, what we take Jeremiah 17:4 to mean is that the result of God's anger shall burn forever- that is, those condemned to Hell will burn forever. The fire shall burn forever, but not God's anger.

If this interpretation just sounds completely ridiculous, don't hesitate to tell me.

It doesn't sound ridiculous but if the wrath of God is still eternal because of his anger, how could he simultaneously be *merciful* by not keeping anger forever? Isn't the wrath of his anger the subject of both verses?

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Umm no your not.
You are claiming to speak for christianity and 37,999 different christian sects disagree with you.

Get at least some consensus between christians before trying to claim that you are the spokesperson.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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8/11/2014 7:01:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Umm no your not.
You are claiming to speak for christianity and 37,999 different christian sects disagree with you.

Get at least some consensus between christians before trying to claim that you are the spokesperson.

Did you not read her response that is clearly contradictory to what you're asserting?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/11/2014 7:06:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 7:01:33 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Umm no your not.
You are claiming to speak for christianity and 37,999 different christian sects disagree with you.

Get at least some consensus between christians before trying to claim that you are the spokesperson.

Did you not read her response that is clearly contradictory to what you're asserting?

Run along now.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 7:12:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why were Jews the only people who were made known that eternal torment awaits them if they don't accept God? Doesn't hell and salvation apply to everyone? If the bible is the only source of telling people that hell awaits us, and people who die who have never read the bible, how were they given foreknowledge of hell?

Actually, the promise was made to Adam and Eve. The knowledge was passed down and reiterated throughout Jewish history, but its first mention is immediately after the Fall (The eating of the fruit of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil). Later, we see the division of mankind in the Tower of Babel. Everyone goes their separate ways and develops their own religions (Which seems to point toward Omnism, but I do not personally prescribe to it). So at one point, everyone had the knowledge of the Messiah, but all but one nation chose to continue belief in it- in this case, Israel. So naturally it seems that God only revealed it to one nation. Good question!

If I made the choice to believe in the Christian God, I would find annihilationism to be the doctrine that most closely aligns with omnibenevolence. Torture for eternity is gratuitous suffering without end or reconciliation. I don't find it compatible with an all loving, merciful God unless we change our definitions of love and mercy.

It is easy to conclude that when presented with the following:
1. Hell is the place of eternal suffering
2. God sends the wicked and unbelieving to Hell
3. God is merciful and loving
That either 2 or 3 is invalid, or that the two are incompatible. However, is it possible to say that love can be infinite despite having to do something they don't want to do? We see that God wants a world of perfection- this is why there is Heaven at all. We also see that God wants His people to have free will, which is why we have the freedom to deny and reject Him. So what we can conclude is that:
1. God is loving and merciful (which is why we can even enter Heaven at all)
2. Hell exists for those who deny and reject God
3. God does not wish to send people to Hell, but this is the piece that God accepts by creating free will. Leaving it up to His people to choose between Heaven and Hell.
This question was certainly complex and difficult to answer, so if it doesn't seem that I have answered it, please let me know.

Free will is the choice to govern your own destiny. If God foreknows the actualized reality of your destiny, your free will as actually set by God's will. God could have the timeline of humanity on a movie tape.

You are correct in assuming God's omniscience here, but you arrive at the conclusion that free will does not exist. Why, then, are you free to deny and reject God if that is what you want? It is my belief that it is by God's will THAT we exist, but it is by our own wills that we choose between Heaven and Hell. So why doesn't God intervene and "Change the film" as it were? Because this would impede on the Free Will that He has decided to allow in the world.

If books of the bible are believed on fragile grounds of changing authenticity, what makes you sure that you are reading the correct canonical bible with the correct book of scriptures? And why do you think books of the bible that are referred to as canonical were lost?

I have wrestled with this very same concept for many years. I can look at the books in the bible as is, and say that they fit the requirements for Canon. However, I cannot know for certain whether or not there is scripture that humanity has not yet found. As for the ones that have been rejected thus far, the reasons for doing so are acceptable (i.e. the Authorship and teachings that are direclty contradictory to Jesus' own teaching)

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 7:14:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Umm no your not.
You are claiming to speak for christianity and 37,999 different christian sects disagree with you.

Get at least some consensus between christians before trying to claim that you are the spokesperson.

Let me be absolutely clear here, bulproof: Those who do not believe that Jesus Christ is God do not match the requirements to be a Christian. The most basic fundamental belief of Christianity, and therefore the requirement to be a Christian, is that Jesus Christ is God. I do not speak to the 37,999 different groups, because they are not Christians.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/11/2014 7:31:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 7:14:54 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Umm no your not.
You are claiming to speak for christianity and 37,999 different christian sects disagree with you.

Get at least some consensus between christians before trying to claim that you are the spokesperson.

Let me be absolutely clear here, bulproof: Those who do not believe that Jesus Christ is God do not match the requirements to be a Christian. The most basic fundamental belief of Christianity, and therefore the requirement to be a Christian, is that Jesus Christ is God. I do not speak to the 37,999 different groups, because they are not Christians.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Says WHO?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 7:54:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 7:31:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 7:14:54 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Umm no your not.
You are claiming to speak for christianity and 37,999 different christian sects disagree with you.

Get at least some consensus between christians before trying to claim that you are the spokesperson.

Let me be absolutely clear here, bulproof: Those who do not believe that Jesus Christ is God do not match the requirements to be a Christian. The most basic fundamental belief of Christianity, and therefore the requirement to be a Christian, is that Jesus Christ is God. I do not speak to the 37,999 different groups, because they are not Christians.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Says WHO?

Christian Doctrine, the entire basis for Christianity, the origin of Christianity, the difference between Judaism and Christianity. I refer you to all of these and trust you to research them on your own time.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/11/2014 8:43:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 7:54:30 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 7:31:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 7:14:54 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Umm no your not.
You are claiming to speak for christianity and 37,999 different christian sects disagree with you.

Get at least some consensus between christians before trying to claim that you are the spokesperson.

Let me be absolutely clear here, bulproof: Those who do not believe that Jesus Christ is God do not match the requirements to be a Christian. The most basic fundamental belief of Christianity, and therefore the requirement to be a Christian, is that Jesus Christ is God. I do not speak to the 37,999 different groups, because they are not Christians.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Says WHO?

Christian Doctrine, the entire basis for Christianity, the origin of Christianity, the difference between Judaism and Christianity. I refer you to all of these and trust you to research them on your own time.

38k denominations and the entire basis of christianity is christian doctrine? The most important part of that doctrine, according to you, that jesus is god.

You actually don't haven't more to say about christianity than christians who don't believe that jesus is god.

Do YOU?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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8/11/2014 8:51:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 3:41:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/10/2014 6:58:38 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Who ever gave you authority to speak for Christianity? What are your credentials for speaking for Christ? I don't want you polluting this forum with passe dead end Pauline Christian ideas that are rightfully facing their End Times along with all Abrahamic religions based on the Hebrew Bible stories. If you don't know that the Bible has been thoroughly debunked by Israeli archeologists as spiritual authority because of the vast amount of lies and liars promoting lies in it. All along priests were promoting religious lies and it's got to stop now because Christianity is to be based on truth, not religious propaganda no matter how hoary with age and accumulated pomp and ritual.

I speak for God as a Jewish Christian prophesy bearer whose spiritual works are recognized by religious authorities such as the Archbishop of the Holy Land Dioceses. I teach a new yet very old Christian theology, Celestial Torah Christianity, and that it among my religious visions and revelations that mark a true Voice of God, because the true Voice brings authentic Revelation and not cut-n-paste repetition of ancient other men's experiences of God.

Please don't think you can speak for God or the Spirit of Christ without having proper credentials to do that job, the Job of the Jew. As salvation is of us Jews.

I think you confuse what is going on here... I do not claim to speak for God. I claim to have a wide understanding of Christianity, and so I am in a position to answer most questions that someone who does not understand Christianity would ask.

If you'd like to answer questions about Judaism or the reformed Judaism to which you belong, then I would encourage you to start your own forum for that very purpose.

If you have further response to this, please don't hesitate to private message me, please do not turn this feed into an argument, as that is what I am trying to avoid here.


August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

August Rasa, PLEASE take your EGO out of this discussion and stop making claims about knowledge of Christianity you do not possess. Book knowledge is cut-n-paste other people's ideas about Christianity and that's not Christianity, especially coming from a Gentile who has no real familiarity with Jesus' religious roots.

You don't speak for anyone but the Gentile authors you've read and their knowledge is greatly lacking in historical roots of Christianity. You do a real disservice to those who are seeking true knowledge about Christianity. Leave that to us who know what we are talking about because we are the people who God has given the Messianic Message to keep, protect, and deliver to humanity.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,082
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8/11/2014 9:32:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

I would disagree the diversity of Christian opinion is only related to secondary matters. There are Christians who believe the second coming has already happened in 70AD, and there are some who claim the signs of our contemporary times establish the second coming will be soon.

I would consider these to be fairly significant differences. How do you respond? Surely, you don't believe these are secondary issues.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/11/2014 10:23:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/11/2014 7:54:30 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 7:31:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 7:14:54 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:48:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:42:02 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:09:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 6:00:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:37:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 5:30:22 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/11/2014 4:34:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/11/2014 3:35:26 AM, Arasa wrote:
It is definitely true that Christians have a diverse set of opinions in matters of secondary importance

That would be like the christians who believe that jesus is god compared to the christians who don't believe that jesus is god?

That's of secondary importance to christianity?

That is a matter of Primary importance, which is why Christianity is not Judaism. Any person who believes that Jesus is not God is not a Christian. This is because the core foundation of Christianity is, as the name implies, Christ Jesus.

A matter of secondary importance would be, for example, the Primative Baptist church believes that foot-washing is one of the sacraments. They do not say that those who do not wash feet routinely are going to Hell, because it in no way discounts Jesus or God to not do so.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

But you are aware that some christian sects don't believe that jesus is god?
There are 38k sects allegedly.

I am aware that there are several groups that do not fit the requirements of Christianity, yet continue to refer to themselves in that way.

Then how can you claim to answer questions for christians?
Are you claiming to be the final arbiter of what christianity is?

As I have already said, I do not claim to speak for God or with the same power as the disciples. What I am doing is answering questions about Christianity that are in the scripture, or else in the history of the Church (Like when I explain the method of Canonization and the assembling of the bible). I do not claim to be the final arbiter of what Christianity is, nor do I want it to appear as though I do. What I am doing is answering honest questions that people have.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Umm no your not.
You are claiming to speak for christianity and 37,999 different christian sects disagree with you.

Get at least some consensus between christians before trying to claim that you are the spokesperson.

Let me be absolutely clear here, bulproof: Those who do not believe that Jesus Christ is God do not match the requirements to be a Christian. The most basic fundamental belief of Christianity, and therefore the requirement to be a Christian, is that Jesus Christ is God. I do not speak to the 37,999 different groups, because they are not Christians.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

Says WHO?

Christian Doctrine, the entire basis for Christianity, the origin of Christianity, the difference between Judaism and Christianity. I refer you to all of these and trust you to research them on your own time.

What is your particular version of christianity called?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Arasa
Posts: 380
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8/11/2014 10:32:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Says WHO?

Christian Doctrine, the entire basis for Christianity, the origin of Christianity, the difference between Judaism and Christianity. I refer you to all of these and trust you to research them on your own time.

38k denominations and the entire basis of christianity is christian doctrine? The most important part of that doctrine, according to you, that jesus is god.

You actually don't haven't more to say about christianity than christians who don't believe that jesus is god.

Do YOU?

Ponder, if you will, Judaism and the life of Christ. Post-Resurrection, Jesus' followers did not walk around saying that they were Jews, but Christians. Why? Because the doctrine was different. The primary doctrine was that "Jesus is God" as it remains to be today. I say again, anyone who does not believe that Jesus is God is not a Christian.

As for your last bit, I can't even follow what you're trying to say just there.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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8/11/2014 10:35:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Id like to know why God hasnt just revealed himself to everyone in the same manner that he did with Paul, i.e. a method of conversion that he knows will convince everyone that he exists?