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Atheists, what is your one best objection...

ergyr
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8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/16/2014 8:34:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

My objection is that no one has given sufficient grounds to believe that there is a God. Every argument I have seen in support of there being a god has been significantly flawed.

As to my explanation, I'm not sure if there really is one necessary for that objection. In order to believe in a thing, there should be a reason to believe. To paraphrase Matt Dillahunty: Having justification for your beliefs is how you ensure you believe as many true things, and as few false things, as possible.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
AlternativeDavid
Posts: 13
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8/16/2014 9:26:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Every God in a monotheistic religion has multiple paradoxes concerning his existence.

As for my explanation, the burden of proof is on you buddy. You're making the claim.
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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8/16/2014 9:34:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

This simply shows that you have no understanding of how the burden of proof works.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/16/2014 9:49:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 9:34:27 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

This simply shows that you have no understanding of how the burden of proof works.

Which is exceedingly common among theists. Neutral nearly blows a fuse when burden of proof is mentioned, and Mhykiel was so certain of his warped view that he actually challenged me to a debate. Of course throughout the debate he had to keep hoping about proclaiming different forms of "burden of proof", claiming there are no defaults, or default evidence.

Of course the entire crux for burden of proof relies upon defaults. The automobile which is clearly seen, has a default of existence. The blank parking space with no evidence of a car, has a default (for the car), of non-existence.

And it is upon these defaults that the burden of proof is determined. God is at least as vacant as the empty parking spot, proclaimed to hold a car. So the burden of proof (as you say), is on the theist... who has no evidence, and therefore, cannot fulfill his burden.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
BradK
Posts: 475
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8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I disagree with number 2, it's possible it could have been created since we can't prove God didn't do it. But of course one could waste his whole day, or his whole life, suggesting things which might be true and will never be disproved (or proved either probably).

So, we get of our lazy asses and actually do science. That's really the only way to get scientific knowledge. Questions/hypotheses are good but answers are better. Impossible hypotheses are a waste of time, just like numbers that take infinite steps are no good to a computer.
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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8/16/2014 11:40:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Which one is that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/17/2014 12:20:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I disagree with number 2, it's possible it could have been created since we can't prove God didn't do it.
Which only gives us license to doubt everything else we know to be true since we can then invent unevidenced entities and claim they can do what we know can't be done. It's a futile point to argue. Do we know that Satan didn't write the Bible, disguising his own character as "God"? Of course not! Do we know the sun isn't a large SunKist orange which has the special power to make itself appear as a ball of fusing hydrogen?

At some point, one needs to accept some part of reality. And it makes sense to start with the silly claims theists make about God, which we know to be false, based on all of the available evidence.

But of course one could waste his whole day, or his whole life, suggesting things which might be true and will never be disproved (or proved either probably).
And while theists are known to do that, they also suggest things which can be shown to be false, but refuse to accept that they've been shown to be false.

So, we get of our lazy asses and actually do science. That's really the only way to get scientific knowledge. Questions/hypotheses are good but answers are better. Impossible hypotheses are a waste of time, just like numbers that take infinite steps are no good to a computer.
And science tells us that God did not create the universe, because matter/energy cannot be created.

I agree that my first point alone is sufficient, but it's nice to be able to show that there are multiple ways to demonstrate that God doesn't exist, didn't influence the Bible, and didn't create the universe.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Illegalcombatant
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8/17/2014 5:26:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Occams razor. Don't add unnecessary assumptions.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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8/17/2014 5:48:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

There is no evidence for morality, therefore morals don't exist.

Atheist logix.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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8/17/2014 8:02:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Logic and reason, which produces a thing called the burden of proof.

But I'll humor you anyway.

My best objection are the plethora of logical contradictions theists assert as characteristics of God. Such as an all loving God who sends people to burn in hell for all eternity. Or a timeless unchanging being who is also intelligent and makes decisions. Or a perfectly just God who is also merciful. Arguing for something that violates logic makes your argument irrational by definition. If you are not capable of producing a rational argument for the thing you believe in and that doesn't bother you, then you are not worth having a discussion with.

But of course this all depends on how you define him, which is not my job since I am not the one asserting he is real.
Double_R
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8/17/2014 8:04:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 5:48:43 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
There is no evidence for morality, therefore morals don't exist.

Atheist logix.

Not understanding atheism is one thing, but not understanding that you don't understand atheism is another.

I really don't know why this is so difficult for you.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/17/2014 8:15:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I disagree with number 2, it's possible it could have been created since we can't prove God didn't do it. But of course one could waste his whole day, or his whole life, suggesting things which might be true and will never be disproved (or proved either probably).

So, we get of our lazy asses and actually do science. That's really the only way to get scientific knowledge. Questions/hypotheses are good but answers are better. Impossible hypotheses are a waste of time, just like numbers that take infinite steps are no good to a computer.

So according to you, utilizing science we are going to arrive at the knowledge of God? I know you didn't word it that way but that's what it appears. If we were to get off our lazy butts and do "science" how is that going to further our understanding of God lol?

Or maybe one could waste his entire life banking on a conclusion based off of ignorance.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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8/17/2014 8:24:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Which gawd would that be, exactly?
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/17/2014 9:21:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

It doesn't take 50 words. I've not seen enough evidence to justify a belief in god.
bulproof
Posts: 25,175
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8/17/2014 9:32:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 11:40:29 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Which one is that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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8/17/2014 9:43:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

You are making an implicit assumption here - that the universe was in fact created. So the first objection would be that you need to provide compelling evidence for this before you can entertain the notion of a cause behind it.

Secondly, once you got past this hurdle, you seem to be using the word "god" as a placeholder for "that which created the universe". If the universe can't be shown to have been created then "god" equates to "nothing". If the universe had a non-supernatural cause then "god" equates to "nature" or "natural forces".

Finally. when you have convinced us that none of the above apply, we get to the scenario which you are pushing which is an entity (intelligence) of some kind being responsible. Your work still hasn't ended though. You would still have to show why it doesn't suffice to have an entity who only has enough ability and power to be able to create a Big Bang and no more. Any further attributes or capabilities you assign to such a being would need to be meticulously evidenced.

So, the above are the logical steps and objections raised relating to your concept. The road to "God, creator of the universe" is a long and difficult one.
BradK
Posts: 475
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8/17/2014 11:44:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 8:15:05 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I disagree with number 2, it's possible it could have been created since we can't prove God didn't do it. But of course one could waste his whole day, or his whole life, suggesting things which might be true and will never be disproved (or proved either probably).

So, we get of our lazy asses and actually do science. That's really the only way to get scientific knowledge. Questions/hypotheses are good but answers are better. Impossible hypotheses are a waste of time, just like numbers that take infinite steps are no good to a computer.

So according to you, utilizing science we are going to arrive at the knowledge of God? I know you didn't word it that way but that's what it appears. If we were to get off our lazy butts and do "science" how is that going to further our understanding of God lol?

Or maybe one could waste his entire life banking on a conclusion based off of ignorance.

"God exists" is a positive claim. Therefore it requires evidence, right? BOP is on theists right?
ergyr
Posts: 53
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8/17/2014 3:19:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 8:34:08 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

My objection is that no one has given sufficient grounds to believe that there is a God. Every argument I have seen in support of there being a god has been significantly flawed.

As to my explanation, I'm not sure if there really is one necessary for that objection. In order to believe in a thing, there should be a reason to believe. To paraphrase Matt Dillahunty: Having justification for your beliefs is how you ensure you believe as many true things, and as few false things, as possible.

---- Talking point 1 ----

Since you are no longer the president of DDO, shouldn't you remove that text at the end of every message from you?

Your humble DDO president.
PM me with any questions or concerns!

[quote=Debate.org FAQs]

What exactly does the site President do?
The Debate.org President acts as a liaison between the members of the community and Juggle, the company that owns the site. They advocate for the interests of the membership and express what updates the community is generally most interested in. They will also help with anything a member is having problems with and try to resolve any issues that members may have. The President is currently TUF.

http://www.debate.org...

[/quote]

---- Talking point 2 ---

[quote=Debate.org Terms of Use]

["]

" Will follow the following rules while participating on the site. Any disregard for these rules or any of the other terms or guidelines may result in termination of a member's account.
1.No use of profanities or swear words.
2.No personal attacks against other members or a member's opinions.
3.No use of racial, sexual or religious slurs.
4.No threats or implications thereof.
["]

http://www.debate.org...

[/quote]

Aren't the words in bold below from you a violation of the above rule in #2.

[quote=Bladerunner]

I'm sorry that you have made unwarranted assumptions. But that is not my problem--and, frankly, given your complaints about things that are "off topic", seems mighty hypocritically red-herringish.

http://www.debate.org...

[/quote]

---- Talking point 3 ----

You say:
My objection is that no one has given sufficient grounds to believe that there is a God. Every argument I have seen in support of there being a god has been significantly flawed.


As the topic and title of this thread is:

[quote=Ergyr]

Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe? -- post 1

[/quote]

Your objection is not acceptable because it is not specific enough for me to react to.

So, unless you present a specific objection to God creator of the universe, at least the concept, I shall not interact with you.
ergyr
Posts: 53
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8/17/2014 3:28:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You bring up the term evidence, please give your concept of what is evidence and an example of how evidence works to lead man to know something to exist he did not know to exist before.

For the rest of you atheists, please wait; when Beastt is through, then I will choose another one from among you to exchange thoughts on your one best objection against God creator of the universe.

Please formulate your objection in specific terms.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/17/2014 4:26:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 3:28:11 PM, ergyr wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.


You bring up the term evidence, please give your concept of what is evidence and an example of how evidence works to lead man to know something to exist he did not know to exist before.
Evidence is simply that which presents a demonstrable link to that for which it serves as evidence.
For example, in 1930 it was noted that in the fusing of hydrogen into helium, the resulting helium was very slightly lighter than could be accounted for by the two hydrogen atoms, the lost photons and the heat. Because we know that matter/energy can be neither created nor destroyed, this served as evidence that some other particle must exist, which had not yet been discovered. Twenty-six years later, the existence of the neutrino was confirmed, based on that first demonstrable link. And it may be noted that neutrinos interact so weakly, that trillions of them pass completely through the Earth every second, without interacting with even a sub-atomic particle. When first proposed, it was suggested that a particle had been hypothesized, which could not be detected. Yet in only 26-years, they were detected and confirmed. A decade or so later, we were counting them.
People have been searching for God and/or evidence of God for at least 5,000 years. So far, nothing. How is it that an entity which directly affects the physical in ways sufficient to prevent a collapsing building from crushing a tiny infant, is more difficult to detect than a particle which can pass completely through the Earth, and interact with nothing?

For the rest of you atheists, please wait; when Beastt is through, then I will choose another one from among you to exchange thoughts on your one best objection against God creator of the universe.

Please formulate your objection in specific terms.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/17/2014 4:36:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 3:19:11 PM, ergyr wrote:

I note that you asked to be able to respond to Beastt, but given that you also replied to me, I don't think it's unfair of me to want to respond.

Since you are no longer the president of DDO, shouldn't you remove that text at the end of every message from you?

I am still the site president, ergyr. Did you not see this week's Presidential update?

TUF was the previous President. He did not run again--Juggle has just not updated it. You may feel free to message him, or airmax1227, if you don't believe me.

[quote=Debate.org Terms of Use]

Aren't the words in bold below from you a violation of the above rule in #2.

I'm sorry that you have made unwarranted assumptions. But that is not my problem--and, frankly, given your complaints about things that are "off topic", seems mighty hypocritically red-herringish.

http://www.debate.org...

No. "I don't like what you said" does not make it a personal attack for the purposes of the website.

Is it inaccurate?
Do you have any response?
Or is it an accurate appraisal, in which case it can hardly be considered an attack?

The TOS have been clarified by the moderators, specifically to address this sort of thing:

http://www.debate.org...

"A personal attack, in the context of this site, is not "anything directed at a person that they find to be unfavorable". Not only would such a definition be absurd, it would stifle exchange and debate. If someone is being dishonest, calling them out on it could be considered by the literalist to be a "personal attack". You are, after all, saying something negative about them, personally. But that's not what's intended by the policy."

"... While not every negative thing said to you is a personal attack, if you believe you've been attacked, contact airmax1227."

I'm sorry if you feel I've attacked you. However, given that you refused to engage in a subject that you brought up, on the grounds that it was off-topic, it seems hypocritical to bring up the presidency, which is not just off-topic but entirely off-subject. Is there a way to note that that you wouldn't feel attacked by?

---- Talking point 3 ----

You say:
My objection is that no one has given sufficient grounds to believe that there is a God. Every argument I have seen in support of there being a god has been significantly flawed.


As the topic and title of this thread is:

[quote=Ergyr]

Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe? -- post 1

[/quote]

Your objection is not acceptable because it is not specific enough for me to react to.

So, unless you present a specific objection to God creator of the universe, at least the concept, I shall not interact with you.

You asked what my objection was--my objection is that there is no reason to believe.

You do not find "There is no reason TO believe" to be a specific enough objection?

Do you generally believe things with no reason? I assume not. I assume that anything that you believe, you believe you have sufficient justification for.

Anything someone proposes as a truth should, I think it's generally uncontroversial, be supported in some way. If it is NOT supported, there is no reason to believe in the thing. I am not sure how I can get more specific than that--that without a reason TO believe, I don't believe. Would you like some examples of arguments that I have found to be invalid? It seems as though it would be a waste of time, given that you may well agree on any specific argument's failures, and the issue is that there is, as far as I've seen, no good argument--that's the objection. How, exactly, can I make that more specific for you?
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/17/2014 4:55:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 11:44:07 AM, BradK wrote:
At 8/17/2014 8:15:05 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I disagree with number 2, it's possible it could have been created since we can't prove God didn't do it. But of course one could waste his whole day, or his whole life, suggesting things which might be true and will never be disproved (or proved either probably).

So, we get of our lazy asses and actually do science. That's really the only way to get scientific knowledge. Questions/hypotheses are good but answers are better. Impossible hypotheses are a waste of time, just like numbers that take infinite steps are no good to a computer.

So according to you, utilizing science we are going to arrive at the knowledge of God? I know you didn't word it that way but that's what it appears. If we were to get off our lazy butts and do "science" how is that going to further our understanding of God lol?

Or maybe one could waste his entire life banking on a conclusion based off of ignorance.

"God exists" is a positive claim. Therefore it requires evidence, right? BOP is on theists right?

Sure okay but all we have is a testimony, you've come to a religious forum not the other way around, so you should expect to argue without being presented verifiable proof or scientific observable evidence based on the nature of God alone. It would seem that anyone that would visit a religious forum would at least understand that theists are not able to supply something that is not possible.

So again I ask, how would doing science further our understanding of God?
BradK
Posts: 475
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8/17/2014 5:30:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 4:55:59 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/17/2014 11:44:07 AM, BradK wrote:
At 8/17/2014 8:15:05 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I disagree with number 2, it's possible it could have been created since we can't prove God didn't do it. But of course one could waste his whole day, or his whole life, suggesting things which might be true and will never be disproved (or proved either probably).

So, we get of our lazy asses and actually do science. That's really the only way to get scientific knowledge. Questions/hypotheses are good but answers are better. Impossible hypotheses are a waste of time, just like numbers that take infinite steps are no good to a computer.

So according to you, utilizing science we are going to arrive at the knowledge of God? I know you didn't word it that way but that's what it appears. If we were to get off our lazy butts and do "science" how is that going to further our understanding of God lol?

Or maybe one could waste his entire life banking on a conclusion based off of ignorance.

"God exists" is a positive claim. Therefore it requires evidence, right? BOP is on theists right?

Sure okay but all we have is a testimony, you've come to a religious forum not the other way around, so you should expect to argue without being presented verifiable proof or scientific observable evidence based on the nature of God alone. It would seem that anyone that would visit a religious forum would at least understand that theists are not able to supply something that is not possible.

So again I ask, how would doing science further our understanding of God?

"how would doing science further our understanding of God?". We know 0 about god. We don't even know if he exists. We don't know what it is. We know zero, nothing, nadda, about god. I don't know how to do any sort of science on something that doesn't exist as far as anyone knows.

"you should expect to argue without being presented verifiable proof or scientific observable evidence based on the nature of God alone". I don't care if this is a religious forum, scientific forum, debate forum, whatever. Making scientific claims like "god exists, souls exist, god listen to prayers, god acts on the world, god created man" without being able to support them is ignorant. I'm not saying you are doing that, but that's just my opinion. You can believe whatever you want as long as you acknowledge that it is just a personal belief. That's my stance on the whole thing.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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8/17/2014 5:32:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 5:30:47 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/17/2014 4:55:59 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/17/2014 11:44:07 AM, BradK wrote:
At 8/17/2014 8:15:05 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I disagree with number 2, it's possible it could have been created since we can't prove God didn't do it. But of course one could waste his whole day, or his whole life, suggesting things which might be true and will never be disproved (or proved either probably).

So, we get of our lazy asses and actually do science. That's really the only way to get scientific knowledge. Questions/hypotheses are good but answers are better. Impossible hypotheses are a waste of time, just like numbers that take infinite steps are no good to a computer.

So according to you, utilizing science we are going to arrive at the knowledge of God? I know you didn't word it that way but that's what it appears. If we were to get off our lazy butts and do "science" how is that going to further our understanding of God lol?

Or maybe one could waste his entire life banking on a conclusion based off of ignorance.

"God exists" is a positive claim. Therefore it requires evidence, right? BOP is on theists right?

Sure okay but all we have is a testimony, you've come to a religious forum not the other way around, so you should expect to argue without being presented verifiable proof or scientific observable evidence based on the nature of God alone. It would seem that anyone that would visit a religious forum would at least understand that theists are not able to supply something that is not possible.

So again I ask, how would doing science further our understanding of God?

"how would doing science further our understanding of God?". We know 0 about god. We don't even know if he exists. We don't know what it is. We know zero, nothing, nadda, about god. I don't know how to do any sort of science on something that doesn't exist as far as anyone knows.

Exactly.

"you should expect to argue without being presented verifiable proof or scientific observable evidence based on the nature of God alone". I don't care if this is a religious forum, scientific forum, debate forum, whatever. Making scientific claims like "god exists, souls exist, god listen to prayers, god acts on the world, god created man" without being able to support them is ignorant. I'm not saying you are doing that, but that's just my opinion. You can believe whatever you want as long as you acknowledge that it is just a personal belief. That's my stance on the whole thing.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/17/2014 7:59:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 5:32:58 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 8/17/2014 5:30:47 PM, BradK wrote:
I don't know how to do any sort of science on something that doesn't exist as far as anyone knows.

Exactly.

So you agree that without evidence of God, we can know nothing about him, and since we can find no evidence for him, the only rational and logical conclusion is that God does not exist?

What kind of theists reverse-psychology is that? You're applying the very same standards to the scientific exploration of God that would be applied to anything else for which there is no evidence. That for which there is no evidence, likely does not exist.

(And even if it does exist, we can have no knowledge of it, because knowledge comes from evidence.)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/17/2014 8:01:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 5:48:43 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 8/16/2014 10:53:23 PM, BradK wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.

You don't even need to go farther than #1 on this. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

There is no evidence for morality, therefore morals don't exist.

Atheist logix.

Every functioning society is evidence for morality. Societies cannot exist without moral standards. ( <-- Real "atheist logic"... science too! )
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/17/2014 8:09:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 9:43:03 AM, dee-em wrote:
The road to "God, creator of the universe" is a long and difficult one.

For which theists have yet to take the first step...

...

...

...

... objective evidence.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ergyr
Posts: 53
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8/17/2014 9:40:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 4:26:53 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 3:28:11 PM, ergyr wrote:
At 8/16/2014 8:11:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/16/2014 7:55:18 PM, ergyr wrote:
Atheists, what is your one best objection against God creator of the universe?

Please first state in a few words say 50 words, then give your explanation for your objection.

Since you included "creator of the universe", I'll give you two.

1. There is NO objective evidence for God, none at all. And if God did what you claim (created things, affected the physical, answered prayer, etc.), objective physical evidence would have to exist.

2. The universe could not have been "created". Creation is not possible.


You bring up the term evidence, please give your concept of what is evidence and an example of how evidence works to lead man to know something to exist he did not know to exist before.
Evidence is simply that which presents a demonstrable link to that for which it serves as evidence.
For example, in 1930 it was noted that in the fusing of hydrogen into helium, the resulting helium was very slightly lighter than could be accounted for by the two hydrogen atoms, the lost photons and the heat. Because we know that matter/energy can be neither created nor destroyed, this served as evidence that some other particle must exist, which had not yet been discovered. Twenty-six years later, the existence of the neutrino was confirmed, based on that first demonstrable link. And it may be noted that neutrinos interact so weakly, that trillions of them pass completely through the Earth every second, without interacting with even a sub-atomic particle. When first proposed, it was suggested that a particle had been hypothesized, which could not be detected. Yet in only 26-years, they were detected and confirmed. A decade or so later, we were counting them.
People have been searching for God and/or evidence of God for at least 5,000 years. So far, nothing. How is it that an entity which directly affects the physical in ways sufficient to prevent a collapsing building from crushing a tiny infant, is more difficult to detect than a particle which can pass completely through the Earth, and interact with nothing?

For the rest of you atheists, please wait; when Beastt is through, then I will choose another one from among you to exchange thoughts on your one best objection against God creator of the universe.

Please formulate your objection in specific terms.

Thanks for your reply.

And your expatiation on evidence and an example of.

Here is what the online Merriam-Webster has to say about evidence, certain, and certainty:

[quote]

evidence : something which shows that something else exists or is true.
[...]

certain : not having any doubt about something : convinced or sure.
[...]

certainty : the state of being or feeling certain about something, something that is certain, a fact about which there is no doubt.

See, http://www.merriam-webster.com...

[/quote]

You objection is that there is no evidence for God in concept creator of the universe.

My contention is that there is evidence for God in concept creator of the universe.

And the evidence is us humans who exist and live in the universe of which we are parts of, and the universe itself is the evidence also, namely, the evidence is both we and the universe which both exist.

Now, your objection is that there is no evidence, I propose that you have to specify where there is no evidence; you cannot just say that there is no evidence, that is a pure allegation even though you will repeat that forever.

Now, it is we ourselves who exist and live in the universe of which we are parts, and the universe itself, we and the universe are the evidence for the existence of God creator of the universe, i.e., creator of mankind and as also the home of mankind the vast universe.

On that account that there is evidence I am certain that God creator of the universe exists, as certain as I am that I and the universe exist.

You say there is no evidence, but you don't tell readers where there is no evidence, in which case you have no certainty that God creator of the universe does not exist anywhere or everywhere or in any venue where existence is present, namely, where there is existence as opposed to nothingness completely and exhaustively.

You have to specify where there is no God before you can be certain that there is in fact no God in the place where you specify.