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Why is religion so dumb?

rule2006
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8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?
All eyes on me,
When i be poppin' the squat!
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/17/2014 7:42:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Because people tend to be highly superstitious. This is caused by an over-active pattern-matching system in the brain, mixed with a strong tendency to try to gain understanding through anthropomorphizing. This is also why man created God in man's own image. (As though a non-physical being could have the same "image" [character, nature, or in any way resemble] a physical being)
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
rule2006
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8/17/2014 7:50:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:42:38 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Because people tend to be highly superstitious. This is caused by an over-active pattern-matching system in the brain, mixed with a strong tendency to try to gain understanding through anthropomorphizing. This is also why man created God in man's own image. (As though a non-physical being could have the same "image" [character, nature, or in any way resemble] a physical being)

God is such bullcrap, if he is such an all powerful being, why is our world not perfect, take a break from giving babies malaria and being a sexist, racist, murderous c*nt!
All eyes on me,
When i be poppin' the squat!
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/17/2014 8:23:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:50:15 PM, rule2006 wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:42:38 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Because people tend to be highly superstitious. This is caused by an over-active pattern-matching system in the brain, mixed with a strong tendency to try to gain understanding through anthropomorphizing. This is also why man created God in man's own image. (As though a non-physical being could have the same "image" [character, nature, or in any way resemble] a physical being)

God is such bullcrap, if he is such an all powerful being, why is our world not perfect, take a break from giving babies malaria and being a sexist, racist, murderous c*nt!

THE TWO RULES OF THEISM

1. Everything you believe to be good; credit to God.

2. Everything you believe to be bad; blame mankind (everyone but yourself).

But yeah of course; if God existed and measured up as theists claim, the world would be a perfect place . . . full of slavery, rape, infanticide and war - God's favorite moral rules.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Keltron
Posts: 161
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8/17/2014 9:43:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Religion is what keeps the peasants from picking up their pitchforks. It really is as simple as that.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/17/2014 10:47:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

God is the only thing that is real. Everything else is His thoughts converted into illusions that we thought was our reality.
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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8/17/2014 10:51:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Probably for the same reasons people believe in myths, superstitions, and astrology.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/17/2014 11:23:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 9:48:21 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
i am very worried for the people who have posted above me if they actually mean what they are saying...

Every word of it!

But, rest assured that we're just as worried about you... in a, "feel you need to be watched 24/7" kind of way. Theists are NOT rational people. Nothing you really feel God wants you to do is too outrageous for you... except perhaps giving up personal wealth.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Gump
Posts: 67
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8/17/2014 11:38:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Religion doesn't need to be smart, it is only there for pedophiles to molest alter boys.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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8/17/2014 11:45:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 10:47:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

God is the only thing that is real. Everything else is His thoughts converted into illusions that we thought was our reality.

"Real" as in existing within reality? So would reality not be "real" additionally.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/18/2014 7:54:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 11:45:28 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 8/17/2014 10:47:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

God is the only thing that is real. Everything else is His thoughts converted into illusions that we thought was our reality.

"Real" as in existing within reality? So would reality not be "real" additionally.

The visible objects we humans thought was our reality since the first man woke up in this dream is not our true reality. Our invisible Creator and His thoughts where we exist as invisible vibrations ( information ) is our true reality.
UchihaMadara
Posts: 1,049
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8/18/2014 9:37:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 11:23:33 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 9:48:21 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
i am very worried for the people who have posted above me if they actually mean what they are saying...

Every word of it!

saddening.


But, rest assured that we're just as worried about you... in a, "feel you need to be watched 24/7" kind of way. Theists are NOT rational people. Nothing you really feel God wants you to do is too outrageous for you... except perhaps giving up personal wealth.

wow. way to generalize.
firstly, im not a theist; im an agnostic who simply finds such misguided anti-theistic sentiments to be laughable.
secondly, proclaiming that a person is irrational in general based on their views on one particularly issue is quite an irrational act itself
finally, your last comment can only be applied to a small population of fundamentalist/extremist types theists.
fail.
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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8/18/2014 9:54:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Do u know how many times people have changed their religious beliefs. Just look at human history. All of these people thought that their alleged Gods are real. Later they realize that the previous God they believed in did not exist but instead of getting rid of theism , they start believing in another alleged God.
As to the question , why people believe in Gods. This is no argument for the presence of God. People believe in ghosts too. Does that mean that there is a ghost in your closet. These are myths.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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8/18/2014 10:06:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:42:38 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Because people tend to be highly superstitious. This is caused by an over-active pattern-matching system in the brain, mixed with a strong tendency to try to gain understanding through anthropomorphizing. This is also why man created God in man's own image. (As though a non-physical being could have the same "image" [character, nature, or in any way resemble] a physical being)

What do we call the inability to recognize obvious sarcasm?
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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8/18/2014 10:51:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 9:54:45 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Do u know how many times people have changed their religious beliefs. Just look at human history. All of these people thought that their alleged Gods are real. Later they realize that the previous God they believed in did not exist but instead of getting rid of theism , they start believing in another alleged God.
As to the question , why people believe in Gods. This is no argument for the presence of God. People believe in ghosts too. Does that mean that there is a ghost in your closet. These are myths.

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.

Wait for it ...

There are MANY former atheists, and because they changed their mind about the ... er, evidence about ... er, no God ... that means ... wait for it ... NO GOD, atheism, is itself a myth! People have adopted Gods through the centuries rejecting this false NO GOD premise!

You see what education does? It allows us to recognize fallacy when we see it, AND it lets us know that these types of claims are ... not science.

But the religious people are the 'dumb' ones? Interesting claim.
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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8/18/2014 11:22:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 10:51:48 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 9:54:45 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Do u know how many times people have changed their religious beliefs. Just look at human history. All of these people thought that their alleged Gods are real. Later they realize that the previous God they believed in did not exist but instead of getting rid of theism , they start believing in another alleged God.
As to the question , why people believe in Gods. This is no argument for the presence of God. People believe in ghosts too. Does that mean that there is a ghost in your closet. These are myths.

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.

Wait for it ...

There are MANY former atheists, and because they changed their mind about the ... er, evidence about ... er, no God ... that means ... wait for it ... NO GOD, atheism, is itself a myth! People have adopted Gods through the centuries rejecting this false NO GOD premise!

You see what education does? It allows us to recognize fallacy when we see it, AND it lets us know that these types of claims are ... not science.

But the religious people are the 'dumb' ones? Interesting claim.

Atheists convert very less. But theists are converting very fast. Just look at the western countries.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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8/18/2014 11:53:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 11:22:29 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/18/2014 10:51:48 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 9:54:45 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Do u know how many times people have changed their religious beliefs. Just look at human history. All of these people thought that their alleged Gods are real. Later they realize that the previous God they believed in did not exist but instead of getting rid of theism , they start believing in another alleged God.
As to the question , why people believe in Gods. This is no argument for the presence of God. People believe in ghosts too. Does that mean that there is a ghost in your closet. These are myths.

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.

Wait for it ...

There are MANY former atheists, and because they changed their mind about the ... er, evidence about ... er, no God ... that means ... wait for it ... NO GOD, atheism, is itself a myth! People have adopted Gods through the centuries rejecting this false NO GOD premise!

You see what education does? It allows us to recognize fallacy when we see it, AND it lets us know that these types of claims are ... not science.

But the religious people are the 'dumb' ones? Interesting claim.

Atheists convert very less. But theists are converting very fast. Just look at the western countries.

Really? At one point, as religion was 'created' and all, EVERYONE was an atheist ... who covered to religion ... where they soon found a evolutionary advantage ...

http://www.npr.org...

Look at Eastern Countries, which are fast converting - and the West? Its beginning to push back, because, just like the ancestors, they are discovering that sitting in caves alone pontificating about how smart they are and eating bear meat ... is pretty dumb.
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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8/18/2014 1:47:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 11:53:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 11:22:29 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/18/2014 10:51:48 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 9:54:45 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Do u know how many times people have changed their religious beliefs. Just look at human history. All of these people thought that their alleged Gods are real. Later they realize that the previous God they believed in did not exist but instead of getting rid of theism , they start believing in another alleged God.
As to the question , why people believe in Gods. This is no argument for the presence of God. People believe in ghosts too. Does that mean that there is a ghost in your closet. These are myths.

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.

Wait for it ...

There are MANY former atheists, and because they changed their mind about the ... er, evidence about ... er, no God ... that means ... wait for it ... NO GOD, atheism, is itself a myth! People have adopted Gods through the centuries rejecting this false NO GOD premise!

You see what education does? It allows us to recognize fallacy when we see it, AND it lets us know that these types of claims are ... not science.

But the religious people are the 'dumb' ones? Interesting claim.

Atheists convert very less. But theists are converting very fast. Just look at the western countries.

Really? At one point, as religion was 'created' and all, EVERYONE was an atheist ... who covered to religion ... where they soon found a evolutionary advantage ...

http://www.npr.org...

Atheist would be someone who thinks there is no God. Notice that they are aware of the word " God" . In the beginning people were not even aware of the concept of God. Atheists are aware of the concept but don't consider it logical and think that it is unscientific.

Look at Eastern Countries, which are fast converting - and the West? Its beginning to push back, because, just like the ancestors, they are discovering that sitting in caves alone pontificating about how smart they are and eating bear meat ... is pretty dumb.

Lol. In the west atheism is not on decline. Eastern countries have the largest number of atheist already. And by fast converting you mean 1 in 100. Lol. It is estimated that by the end of this century most of the world would be without religion.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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8/18/2014 2:10:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 1:47:22 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/18/2014 11:53:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 11:22:29 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/18/2014 10:51:48 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 9:54:45 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Do u know how many times people have changed their religious beliefs. Just look at human history. All of these people thought that their alleged Gods are real. Later they realize that the previous God they believed in did not exist but instead of getting rid of theism , they start believing in another alleged God.
As to the question , why people believe in Gods. This is no argument for the presence of God. People believe in ghosts too. Does that mean that there is a ghost in your closet. These are myths.

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.

Wait for it ...

There are MANY former atheists, and because they changed their mind about the ... er, evidence about ... er, no God ... that means ... wait for it ... NO GOD, atheism, is itself a myth! People have adopted Gods through the centuries rejecting this false NO GOD premise!

You see what education does? It allows us to recognize fallacy when we see it, AND it lets us know that these types of claims are ... not science.

But the religious people are the 'dumb' ones? Interesting claim.

Atheists convert very less. But theists are converting very fast. Just look at the western countries.

Really? At one point, as religion was 'created' and all, EVERYONE was an atheist ... who covered to religion ... where they soon found a evolutionary advantage ...

http://www.npr.org...

Atheist would be someone who thinks there is no God. Notice that they are aware of the word " God" . In the beginning people were not even aware of the concept of God. Atheists are aware of the concept but don't consider it logical and think that it is unscientific.

Look at Eastern Countries, which are fast converting - and the West? Its beginning to push back, because, just like the ancestors, they are discovering that sitting in caves alone pontificating about how smart they are and eating bear meat ... is pretty dumb.

Lol. In the west atheism is not on decline. Eastern countries have the largest number of atheist already. And by fast converting you mean 1 in 100. Lol. It is estimated that by the end of this century most of the world would be without religion.

Right, atheism is deliberately ignorant agnosticism ... not based on science or evidence because it claims nothing based on nothing, it just rejects what is said by theists - but it cannot even accurately explain why religion is wrong, because it can't even get the claims of religion correct.

Its short its a conspiracy. Not science.

As for your data points, you once again see only what you wish ... Christianity is fastest growing in what country? China. Where did it have the fattest revival? Russia - after enforced atheism.

Now why would they have converted to a religion that meant nothing?

Who knows, atheists are stuck on Zeus - relevance to Russian religion? Its not about evidence or reasoning - its a conspiracy.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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8/18/2014 3:40:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 9:37:06 AM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 8/17/2014 11:23:33 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 9:48:21 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
i am very worried for the people who have posted above me if they actually mean what they are saying...

Every word of it!

saddening.


But, rest assured that we're just as worried about you... in a, "feel you need to be watched 24/7" kind of way. Theists are NOT rational people. Nothing you really feel God wants you to do is too outrageous for you... except perhaps giving up personal wealth.

wow. way to generalize.
firstly, im not a theist; im an agnostic
What else are you agnostic about; Santa Claus, fairies, Leprechauns, unicorns? Anything? Are you under the impression that there is more objective evidence for God than for any of the other mythical entities? If so, what evidence would that be?

who simply finds such misguided anti-theistic sentiments to be laughable.
It's one thing to simply generalize with statements like "misguided anti-theistic sentiments", and quite another to explain exactly what you're talking about, and attempting to present a case for why you feel they might be misguided. I notice you didn't make an attempt to do anything but throw your generalized spit-ball in our direction. Care to flesh that out with a few specifics?

secondly, proclaiming that a person is irrational in general based on their views on one particularly issue is quite an irrational act itself
So, if someone believes elves invade their house each night and steal their shoelaces, that's nothing to worry about?

If I may borrow from one of the more brilliant minds on the subject, what makes it any less rational to believe that you can say some magic words over your waffles, in the morning, and thus turn them into Elvis Presley, than to believe that saying a few Latin words over a cracker will turn it into the body of Jesus Christ? It's simply the same kind of irrational lunacy either way. But oddly enough, if people grow up in a culture where one is common and the other is obscure and infrequent, the less thoughtful members of that society will see one act as shear lunacy, and rate the other as purely acceptable Catholicism.

finally, your last comment can only be applied to a small population of fundamentalist/extremist types theists.
Then perhaps you can explain why people so often take a moment to thank a sky full of nothing, for the food on their tables before they partake? Why do they waste an hour or two singing pathetically dreary old songs and listening to an often under-educated man read from an old book of superstitious nonsense one day each week? When faced with a potential peril, how many people start trying to make deals with a supposed, but completely unseen and unevidenced controller of their outcomes?

I'm not wrong as you suggested. You're just not thinking.

fail.
Do yourself a favor. When someone presents points and you offer your counter-points, don't be so presumptuous and disingenuous as to feel you can play participant to the debate, and also pretend to be an unbiased judge. It smacks of insecurity and fear.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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8/18/2014 3:41:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 10:06:43 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:42:38 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Because people tend to be highly superstitious. This is caused by an over-active pattern-matching system in the brain, mixed with a strong tendency to try to gain understanding through anthropomorphizing. This is also why man created God in man's own image. (As though a non-physical being could have the same "image" [character, nature, or in any way resemble] a physical being)

What do we call the inability to recognize obvious sarcasm?

I don't know about you, but I think I'll call it, "being Neutral".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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8/18/2014 4:10:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 10:51:48 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 9:54:45 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Do u know how many times people have changed their religious beliefs. Just look at human history. All of these people thought that their alleged Gods are real. Later they realize that the previous God they believed in did not exist but instead of getting rid of theism , they start believing in another alleged God.
As to the question , why people believe in Gods. This is no argument for the presence of God. People believe in ghosts too. Does that mean that there is a ghost in your closet. These are myths.

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.
Let's start here, Neutral; his name was "Zeus", not "Zues". If you want to be mistaken as speaking intelligently on a subject, then at least attempt to take on the appearance of intellect. Secondly, you seem to be forgetting about Mithra, Attis, Horus, Osiris, Isis, Ra, Tammuz, Krishna, Mbombo, Atum, Ptah, Unkulunkulu, Nanabozho, Mercury, Coaticue, Viracocha, Kamuy, Izanagi, Marduk, Anat, Rod, Ipmil, Vishnu, Kvasir, Brahma, Shiva, Pangu, Waheguru, Amaterasu, Anshar, Aphrodite, Poseidon, Apollo, Athena, Asclepius, Atlas, Baal, Bast, Vulcan, Brahma, Chalchiuhtlicue, Damkina, Dionysus, Fenrir, Hotei, Ganesha, Hathor, Hera, Hermes, Hygeia, Ishtar, Juno, Bacchus, Jupiter, Kishar, Leto, Luna, Mars, Minerva, Nanna, Nephthys, Nintu, Odin, Ostara, Pan, Quetzalcoati, Sarapis, Shiva, Tiamat, Tyr, Venus, Xipe, Yarikh, and hundreds of other gods. Disingenuously suggesting that Zeus is the only failed god is pathetic, weak and illustrates your willingness to misrepresent in the hope of supporting your irrationality.


Wait for it ...

There are MANY former atheists, and because they changed their mind about the ... er, evidence about ... er, no God ... that means ... wait for it ... NO GOD, atheism, is itself a myth! People have adopted Gods through the centuries rejecting this false NO GOD premise!
Go look up the statistics, Neutral. In the west, atheism is the fastest growing minority - bar none! Christianity is gaining numerically, but shrinking statistically. While your numbers are climbing ever more slowly, your percentages are dwindling. During the period from 1990 to 2001, Christianity in American, Canada and Australia, experienced a decline of 9.7%. That's practically 1/10th of all Christians in those regions, gave up Christianity, within an 11-year period.
http://www.religioustolerance.org...

Christianity fell from 86% in 1990, to 76% by 2008.

You see what education does? It allows us to recognize fallacy when we see it, AND it lets us know that these types of claims are ... not science.
No one who believes the Bible is true has any ground upon which to make the statement that they can recognize a fallacy when they see it.
- Can planets made from the elements produced in stars exist before stars, Neutral?
- Can you determine the color of baby goats by showing their parents different patterns as they copulate?
- Can you grow fruit trees in temperatures several hundred degrees below zero?
- Can you retain liquid water at more than 400-degrees below zero, and without any atmospheric pressure?

Those are all fallacies and there are hundreds more in a book you claim to believe. So don't pretend you know a fallacy when you see one. You clearly don't.

But the religious people are the 'dumb' ones? Interesting claim.

It's not just a claim, Neutral. We've been around, and around on this before. I show you the actual numbers, and then you start claiming that IQ says nothing about a person's IQ. Then I show you that many of the studies weren't based on IQ, and you get pissy and start throwing a fit. Atheists DO tend to be more intelligent than THEISTS, and you're here as further evidence of that fact.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
neutral
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8/18/2014 4:14:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 3:41:23 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/18/2014 10:06:43 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:42:38 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Because people tend to be highly superstitious. This is caused by an over-active pattern-matching system in the brain, mixed with a strong tendency to try to gain understanding through anthropomorphizing. This is also why man created God in man's own image. (As though a non-physical being could have the same "image" [character, nature, or in any way resemble] a physical being)

What do we call the inability to recognize obvious sarcasm?

I don't know about you, but I think I'll call it, "being Neutral".

Lame. A sense of humor and wittiness are not atheism's strong suit ...

Now, a lecture on the finer points of glass formation ... as humor is ... wait ..
LogicalLunatic
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8/18/2014 4:15:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Are you a theist pretending to be an atheist to make them look stupid?
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neutral
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8/18/2014 4:20:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 4:10:16 PM, Beastt wrote:

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.
Let's start here, Neutral; his name was "Zeus", not "Zues". If you want to be mistaken as speaking intelligently on a subject, then at least attempt to take on the appearance of intellect. Secondly, you seem to be forgetting about Mithra, Attis, Horus, Osiris, Isis, Ra, Tammuz, Krishna, Mbombo, Atum, Ptah, Unkulunkulu, Nanabozho, Mercury, Coaticue, Viracocha, Kamuy, Izanagi, Marduk, Anat, Rod, Ipmil, Vishnu, Kvasir, Brahma, Shiva, Pangu, Waheguru, Amaterasu, Anshar, Aphrodite, Poseidon, Apollo, Athena, Asclepius, Atlas, Baal, Bast, Vulcan, Brahma, Chalchiuhtlicue, Damkina, Dionysus, Fenrir, Hotei, Ganesha, Hathor, Hera, Hermes, Hygeia, Ishtar, Juno, Bacchus, Jupiter, Kishar, Leto, Luna, Mars, Minerva, Nanna, Nephthys, Nintu, Odin, Ostara, Pan, Quetzalcoati, Sarapis, Shiva, Tiamat, Tyr, Venus, Xipe, Yarikh, and hundreds of other gods. Disingenuously suggesting that Zeus is the only failed god is pathetic, weak and illustrates your willingness to misrepresent in the hope of supporting your irrationality.


The fallacy is called guilt by association - as in, God is real because grass is green ... you know, a fallacy that YOU reject ... rem, but still use?

My God, as a Christian is Jesus, do you know what listing a bunch of mythology has to do with Jesus? Nothing.

Its illustrates your ability to use google to search the wrong subject AND the fallacious reasoning you use to support your atheism.

But then, rationalism and evidence never did drive your position anyway ... nor indeed did a sense of humor. Vicious and ignorant. What an 'upgrade' atheism brings the world ... why it CERTAINLY needs MORE of that ...

I wonder, will the atheist acknowledge the fallacious reasoning? Will he acknowledge the 22 books he's read on the evidence for Jesus in an intelligent discussion, and how they informed his position on Zeus ... ? Doubt it.

That's atheism these days though. And to think, fallacious reasoning like this, meant just to piss on Christians, got you kicked off of Christianforums.com? Must be bad moderation there.
Beastt
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8/18/2014 4:53:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 11:53:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 11:22:29 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/18/2014 10:51:48 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 9:54:45 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 8/17/2014 7:38:53 PM, rule2006 wrote:
I've been told that God didn't create the universe because God isn't real, so why do people still believe in him if he's not real?

Do u know how many times people have changed their religious beliefs. Just look at human history. All of these people thought that their alleged Gods are real. Later they realize that the previous God they believed in did not exist but instead of getting rid of theism , they start believing in another alleged God.
As to the question , why people believe in Gods. This is no argument for the presence of God. People believe in ghosts too. Does that mean that there is a ghost in your closet. These are myths.

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.

Wait for it ...

There are MANY former atheists, and because they changed their mind about the ... er, evidence about ... er, no God ... that means ... wait for it ... NO GOD, atheism, is itself a myth! People have adopted Gods through the centuries rejecting this false NO GOD premise!

You see what education does? It allows us to recognize fallacy when we see it, AND it lets us know that these types of claims are ... not science.

But the religious people are the 'dumb' ones? Interesting claim.

Atheists convert very less. But theists are converting very fast. Just look at the western countries.

Really? At one point, as religion was 'created' and all, EVERYONE was an atheist ... who covered to religion ... where they soon found a evolutionary advantage ...

http://www.npr.org...

Look at Eastern Countries, which are fast converting - and the West? Its beginning to push back, because, just like the ancestors, they are discovering that sitting in caves alone pontificating about how smart they are and eating bear meat ... is pretty dumb.

It's amazing to me that anyone can read that article and actually think it's showing an advantage in today's world, of belief in God, over not believing in God. One has to be so devoid of understanding when it comes to societies, morality, and behavioral economics, as to be a mere child gazing on a fireworks display, to not understand what is going on.

There are multiple levels of development, both from the individual and social view, Neutral. It's entirely possible that most atheists today have simply evolved to a higher level than most theists. We don't need to believe we're being watched, in order to behave in a manner we know to be most beneficial. People who behave better when they believe God is watching, are at a lower developmental level.

The same type of experiments have been carried out many times over and you can read about many of them through the director of much of the research - Dan Ariely. He's a professor of Behavioral Economics at MIT, and many of the experiments he has conducted and describes in his books, ("Predictably Irrational", "The Up Side of Irrationality", "The Honest Truth about Dishonesty") explain much about the phenomenon of theism. What none of it shows is that theism produces a correct or accurate view of the world. Yes, many people behave in a more socially constructive manner if they think they are being watched, and will receive some kind of punishment if caught. And it goes much more deeply than that. But it doesn't show that there is anyone, or anything, actually watching just because you think there is. And that's what the article you linked is showing.

For simplicity sake, we can break this into three groups.

1. People who will take anything they want, even if force is necessary, which will result in punishment.

2. People who will behave in a socially acceptable manner, as long as they believe they're being watched.

3. People who will behave in a socially acceptable manner, because intellectually, they realize it to be the most beneficial.

Many of the people you find in prison are in the first group. Children and theists who believe God helps them to behave more appropriately, tend to be of the second group. The third group tends to be occupied by people with the intellect to understand that one must feed back into society, in order to receive optimally from society. This last group doesn't need to believe they're being watched in order to behave in a more socially beneficial manner. It's pretty clear you're of the second group.

What was the first thing you did when I mentioned that I've read around 55-books on theism? You accused me of lying. So I typed up a list of those books, noted which one's I'd finished and which ones I'm still reading... and you again accused me of lying. And yet there's nothing unusual (I would hope), or absurd about the suggestion of reading 55-books in an 11-year period (which I pointed out). Then you started claiming that I said I'd read them in 2-weeks! I never made such a claim and I corrected you on that several times.

So what does this show? It shows us how your mind works. The best way most of us have to try to understand someone else, is to imagine ourselves in their place. When you imagined yourself in my place, you realized you'd be prone to lying about the books you'd read. So you immediately accused me of lying. When I continued to defend myself, what did you do next? You began lying about the period of time I'd claimed, reducing it from 11-years, to just 2-weeks. And when I corrected you on that, you continued to lie.

So which one of us is more prone to acting in a socially inappropriate manner; the one who instantly - and without cause - accuses others of lying (because that's what you would have done), or the one who was honest and up-front, and willing to offer support, for the claims they'd made? Had I decided to fabricate a lie, why would I choose to claim only 55-books? I was talking about an 11-year period so 100 books wouldn't have been outrageous. I could go even further like AnnaNicole did when she claimed 5,000 (over an unspecified period of time). Of course, as this has been mentioned to her over time, now some of those "books" are just journals, and then later she stated that she said she "had" them, not that she'd "read" them.

I didn't immediately accuse her of dishonesty, Neutral. Do you know why?

Because it wasn't beyond the realm of possibility. It was possible I was communicating with a person who did little else but read. They have obtained a long series of books on Bible stories, Bible history, etc. And because I'm not prone to lying, I don't immediately suspect others of lying. Lying to me is vulgar, it's weak, pathetic, and in the context of seeking truth, purely worthless. So what if you can "win" an argument by telling lies? Did that help you to find who was really right? I simply don't understand why anyone would do that, but I do see people doing it. I see it every day. How does anyone ever expect to more finely sort out what is true and what isn't, if they use lies as a standard tool of debate? You only end up cheating yourself out of the knowledge you might otherwise have gained.

Anyway, for people in the second group of development, belief in an over-bearing, always-watching entity, could be beneficial because it helps them to merge into a social group and the benefits that offers. For the third group, no such farcical charade is necessary, nor is it desirable.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
UchihaMadara
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8/18/2014 4:54:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 3:40:34 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/18/2014 9:37:06 AM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 8/17/2014 11:23:33 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 8/17/2014 9:48:21 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
i am very worried for the people who have posted above me if they actually mean what they are saying...

Every word of it!

saddening.


But, rest assured that we're just as worried about you... in a, "feel you need to be watched 24/7" kind of way. Theists are NOT rational people. Nothing you really feel God wants you to do is too outrageous for you... except perhaps giving up personal wealth.

wow. way to generalize.
firstly, im not a theist; im an agnostic
What else are you agnostic about; Santa Claus, fairies, Leprechauns, unicorns? Anything? Are you under the impression that there is more objective evidence for God than for any of the other mythical entities? If so, what evidence would that be?

correct. see my reply to your other post.


who simply finds such misguided anti-theistic sentiments to be laughable.
It's one thing to simply generalize with statements like "misguided anti-theistic sentiments", and quite another to explain exactly what you're talking about, and attempting to present a case for why you feel they might be misguided. I notice you didn't make an attempt to do anything but throw your generalized spit-ball in our direction. Care to flesh that out with a few specifics?

lol... i have no problem with your first comment, as it is a viable theory as to how religion could have developed and where 'religious experiences' come from.
but your second comment regarding the 'two rules of theism' and 'gods favorite moral rules' are both gross generalizations of theistic beliefs, only applying to the most irrational of theists.


secondly, proclaiming that a person is irrational in general based on their views on one particularly issue is quite an irrational act itself
So, if someone believes elves invade their house each night and steal their shoelaces, that's nothing to worry about?

nope. that means that they have come to a misguided conclusion based on the available evidence. funny how that elf-believer otherwise behaves perfectly normally in his daily life, being able to utilize his rational faculties just as well as everyone else.


If I may borrow from one of the more brilliant minds on the subject, what makes it any less rational to believe that you can say some magic words over your waffles, in the morning, and thus turn them into Elvis Presley, than to believe that saying a few Latin words over a cracker will turn it into the body of Jesus Christ? It's simply the same kind of irrational lunacy either way. But oddly enough, if people grow up in a culture where one is common and the other is obscure and infrequent, the less thoughtful members of that society will see one act as shear lunacy, and rate the other as purely acceptable Catholicism.

and.... how many people do you know who legitimately believe that crackers are literally jesus's flesh?


finally, your last comment can only be applied to a small population of fundamentalist/extremist types theists.
Then perhaps you can explain why people so often take a moment to thank a sky full of nothing, for the food on their tables before they partake? Why do they waste an hour or two singing pathetically dreary old songs and listening to an often under-educated man read from an old book of superstitious nonsense one day each week? When faced with a potential peril, how many people start trying to make deals with a supposed, but completely unseen and unevidenced controller of their outcomes?

there are so many things wrong with this...
all of that already assumes that god most certainly doesnt exist. obviously religious activities seem irrational approaching it from that lens.
and your point's legitimacy relies heavily on the use of rhetoric to reduce everything to the ridiculous. a better wordsmith than me could just as easily use language to make praying and church-going sound much more pleasant, even from a secular perspective.


I'm not wrong as you suggested. You're just not thinking.

you are most definitely wrong.


fail.
Do yourself a favor. When someone presents points and you offer your counter-points, don't be so presumptuous and disingenuous as to feel you can play participant to the debate, and also pretend to be an unbiased judge. It smacks of insecurity and fear.

you didnt present a point. you presented insults.
only now have you presented any sort of 'point.'
Beastt
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8/18/2014 5:10:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 4:20:08 PM, neutral wrote:
At 8/18/2014 4:10:16 PM, Beastt wrote:

Nice fallacy.

SO, because Zues is no longer worshipped, precisely because he WAS falsified, all God are false - but not because you falsified them ... but because people changed their minds.
Let's start here, Neutral; his name was "Zeus", not "Zues". If you want to be mistaken as speaking intelligently on a subject, then at least attempt to take on the appearance of intellect. Secondly, you seem to be forgetting about Mithra, Attis, Horus, Osiris, Isis, Ra, Tammuz, Krishna, Mbombo, Atum, Ptah, Unkulunkulu, Nanabozho, Mercury, Coaticue, Viracocha, Kamuy, Izanagi, Marduk, Anat, Rod, Ipmil, Vishnu, Kvasir, Brahma, Shiva, Pangu, Waheguru, Amaterasu, Anshar, Aphrodite, Poseidon, Apollo, Athena, Asclepius, Atlas, Baal, Bast, Vulcan, Brahma, Chalchiuhtlicue, Damkina, Dionysus, Fenrir, Hotei, Ganesha, Hathor, Hera, Hermes, Hygeia, Ishtar, Juno, Bacchus, Jupiter, Kishar, Leto, Luna, Mars, Minerva, Nanna, Nephthys, Nintu, Odin, Ostara, Pan, Quetzalcoati, Sarapis, Shiva, Tiamat, Tyr, Venus, Xipe, Yarikh, and hundreds of other gods. Disingenuously suggesting that Zeus is the only failed god is pathetic, weak and illustrates your willingness to misrepresent in the hope of supporting your irrationality.


The fallacy is called guilt by association - as in, God is real because grass is green ... you know, a fallacy that YOU reject ... rem, but still use?
They're all fruit of the same tree, Neutral. They're all imaginary, there's no evidence for ANY of them, and man uses them to try to explain things about nature which he doesn't understand. And the more he understands, the fewer roles his god(s) play. The Bible talks about Jesus driving spirits out of people and thus curing them of disease. You are aware that germ theory is flourishing, and is far more successful than reading scripture at people tied to beds, flogged with smoking ropes and splashed with blessed water... right?

My God, as a Christian is Jesus, do you know what listing a bunch of mythology has to do with Jesus? Nothing.
It has everything to do with Jesus. Most of the miracles associated with Jesus came from pagan mythology. Many of the story-lines are the same. This has been known for a very, VERY long time, Neutral. Even some of the earliest known Christian apologists had to deal with this reality. Do you know how Justin Martyr dealt with it? He didn't deny it as you're attempting to do. He simply admitted that it was completely true.

- "And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter" -- Justin Martyr

So again, we see your penchant for dishonesty, not raised only to fend off others, but to shelter yourself from a truth you wish not to accept.

Its illustrates your ability to use google to search the wrong subject AND the fallacious reasoning you use to support your atheism.
It's not at all fallacious. I've obviously researched the roots of Christianity far more than have you, and I've seen the parallels that you only wish to blind yourself to. You can blind yourself, Neutral. But a debate board is not the place to do that with any success. Because try as you might, you can't blind a whole world when some of them wish to see.

But then, rationalism and evidence never did drive your position anyway ... nor indeed did a sense of humor. Vicious and ignorant. What an 'upgrade' atheism brings the world ... why it CERTAINLY needs MORE of that ...
Make a point or don't waste the space.

I wonder, will the atheist acknowledge the fallacious reasoning? Will he acknowledge the 22 books he's read on the evidence for Jesus in an intelligent discussion, and how they informed his position on Zeus ... ? Doubt it.
I'm not sure who you're claiming in regard to 22-books on evidence for Jesus. I seriously doubt most people will ever find that many books on the topic, or read that many. There is clearly no need. If you read the top 3 or 4, you'll find you're reading the same weak, pathetic and failed arguments, over, and over, and over.

That's atheism these days though. And to think, fallacious reasoning like this, meant just to piss on Christians, got you kicked off of Christianforums.com? Must be bad moderation there.
The reasoning is not fallacious, and you've presented only your unsupported and unqualified suggestion that it is. You claim Jesus is in no way to connected with any of these other gods, just as the followers of those gods would likely claim they're not connected to any of the other gods. But the reasoning holds firm; there is no evidence for ANY of these gods, they're all the product of imagination, many of them claim support through writings which followers insist were inspired by the individual god in question, they share many of the same rituals, the same stories, and the same claims of miracles, and each and every one is constructed as a place-holder for what man doesn't (or didn't), understand. And as man continues to gain understanding, he continues to find none of these imagined explanations to be correct.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire