Total Posts:15|Showing Posts:1-15
Jump to topic:

When did Jews persecute christians

bulproof
Posts: 25,218
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2014 9:01:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 8:59:29 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Who's "Paul"? When you find the answer to that you'll find out why he said what he did.

Thanks bio, your responses are as valid fathead's.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2014 1:07:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

The silence is deafening!
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Arasa
Posts: 380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2014 8:40:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

Well, as for non-biblical evidence, I'm afraid I cannot provide anything off the top of my head. However, as for non-Pauline writing that confirms Paul as having persecuted Christianity, I ask that the account found in the book of Acts to be taken as evidence. It was not written by Paul, and it accounts that Paul condoned and encouraged the stoning of the early Christian and first martyr, Stephen...
Acts 7:58, " Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul."

For explanation of that "laid down their garments" piece, the only explanation is found in Paul's own writing, Acts 22:20, "And when the blood of Stephen your witness wasshed, I also was standing by and approving while guarding the cloaks of the ones who killed him."

Acts 8:1-3, "And Saul approved of his execution.
And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison."

Keep in mind that Acts, up until chapter 9, was written by Luke. After Chapter 9, it was compiled by Luke, meaning that he got together all of the accounts that the disciples, apostles, and a couple others, gave him.
If a non-Pauline biblical source for Paul's persecution of Christianity does not satisfy your qualifications, then let me know.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2014 9:15:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/22/2014 1:07:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

The silence is deafening!

You'll probably just troll any response that I give, but here's one:
What evidence would there be? If someone was stoned to death, what evidence would that leave behind? People died all the time; what evidence would there be to distinguish a person dying naturally and being stoned to death, especially as very few skeletons from that time period would remain today?
The nature of the persecution of Christians in Judaea is not something that would leave behind evidence.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2014 9:17:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Rasa, didn't I tell you to buzz off? You don't anything outside of what Pauline Christian bible scholars know about Christianity and one can debunk that instantly by asking someone like you what you know about Yeishu ben Pantera, the historical Jesus described in the Talmud accounts.

The "Paul"s were front for Gentile Churchmen posing as Jerusalem Jews in order to steal the charisma of "Christ the Magician" a mysterious Jewish healer who left a trail of such magical healings behind him it turned into a legend. The Christ the Magician engraving found in the Jewish prayer bowl in the harbor of Alexandria and dated to between 200 B.C. and 200 A.D. plus the Gospels, the Gnostic Gospels, the many different emerging early Christian sects all testify to a legendary man beginning a new Jewish revelation from God about the Messiah.

The Pauline bible scholars are afraid to touch the Talmud's information because of the power of Jews to ruin Gentile scholars careers with "anti-Semitism" campaigns if they don't like what they read from Gentiles. So there is a huge gap in the real history of early Christianity as bible scholars focus on what they have handed to them from the Protestant/Catholic Pauline Christian churchmen, all Gentiles, beginning with the false authors of the Pauline Letters.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2014 9:49:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/22/2014 8:40:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

Well, as for non-biblical evidence, I'm afraid I cannot provide anything off the top of my head. However, as for non-Pauline writing that confirms Paul as having persecuted Christianity, I ask that the account found in the book of Acts to be taken as evidence. It was not written by Paul, and it accounts that Paul condoned and encouraged the stoning of the early Christian and first martyr, Stephen...
Acts 7:58, " Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul."

For explanation of that "laid down their garments" piece, the only explanation is found in Paul's own writing, Acts 22:20, "And when the blood of Stephen your witness wasshed, I also was standing by and approving while guarding the cloaks of the ones who killed him."

Acts 8:1-3, "And Saul approved of his execution.
And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison."

Keep in mind that Acts, up until chapter 9, was written by Luke. After Chapter 9, it was compiled by Luke, meaning that he got together all of the accounts that the disciples, apostles, and a couple others, gave him.
If a non-Pauline biblical source for Paul's persecution of Christianity does not satisfy your qualifications, then let me know.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

I mean WOW.

Non biblical evidence is the request and biblical evidence is what is supplied.

Here is the thing dears. I want historical evidence that the Jews, via the Pharisees of whom SAUL was a member, were persecuting christians.

It is a very important point.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Arasa
Posts: 380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2014 12:16:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/22/2014 9:49:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/22/2014 8:40:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

Well, as for non-biblical evidence, I'm afraid I cannot provide anything off the top of my head. However, as for non-Pauline writing that confirms Paul as having persecuted Christianity, I ask that the account found in the book of Acts to be taken as evidence. It was not written by Paul, and it accounts that Paul condoned and encouraged the stoning of the early Christian and first martyr, Stephen...
Acts 7:58, " Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul."

For explanation of that "laid down their garments" piece, the only explanation is found in Paul's own writing, Acts 22:20, "And when the blood of Stephen your witness wasshed, I also was standing by and approving while guarding the cloaks of the ones who killed him."

Acts 8:1-3, "And Saul approved of his execution.
And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison."

Keep in mind that Acts, up until chapter 9, was written by Luke. After Chapter 9, it was compiled by Luke, meaning that he got together all of the accounts that the disciples, apostles, and a couple others, gave him.
If a non-Pauline biblical source for Paul's persecution of Christianity does not satisfy your qualifications, then let me know.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

I mean WOW.

Non biblical evidence is the request and biblical evidence is what is supplied.

Here is the thing dears. I want historical evidence that the Jews, via the Pharisees of whom SAUL was a member, were persecuting christians.

It is a very important point.

Your original statement indicated that Paul was a liar, and so I gave you non-Pauline references to quell that argument. As for non-biblical entirely, why would you not trust the persecutor's word makes sense, because it might be a lie. But when the persecuted state the action before the persecutor did, you have now a more reliable source when paired.

Now, had Acts not been added to the bible, would that make it qualified to answer your question? Why does the fact that Christians have taken it to be truth immediately disqualify it for your own standards?

Lastly, research King Agrippa. There are non-biblical sources attached to his name, as he had persecuted Christians in an attempt to win over his Jewish subjects.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2014 12:23:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/22/2014 12:16:59 PM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/22/2014 9:49:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/22/2014 8:40:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

Well, as for non-biblical evidence, I'm afraid I cannot provide anything off the top of my head. However, as for non-Pauline writing that confirms Paul as having persecuted Christianity, I ask that the account found in the book of Acts to be taken as evidence. It was not written by Paul, and it accounts that Paul condoned and encouraged the stoning of the early Christian and first martyr, Stephen...
Acts 7:58, " Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul."

For explanation of that "laid down their garments" piece, the only explanation is found in Paul's own writing, Acts 22:20, "And when the blood of Stephen your witness wasshed, I also was standing by and approving while guarding the cloaks of the ones who killed him."

Acts 8:1-3, "And Saul approved of his execution.
And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison."

Keep in mind that Acts, up until chapter 9, was written by Luke. After Chapter 9, it was compiled by Luke, meaning that he got together all of the accounts that the disciples, apostles, and a couple others, gave him.
If a non-Pauline biblical source for Paul's persecution of Christianity does not satisfy your qualifications, then let me know.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

I mean WOW.

Non biblical evidence is the request and biblical evidence is what is supplied.

Here is the thing dears. I want historical evidence that the Jews, via the Pharisees of whom SAUL was a member, were persecuting christians.

It is a very important point.

Your original statement indicated that Paul was a liar, and so I gave you non-Pauline references to quell that argument. As for non-biblical entirely, why would you not trust the persecutor's word makes sense, because it might be a lie. But when the persecuted state the action before the persecutor did, you have now a more reliable source when paired.

Now, had Acts not been added to the bible, would that make it qualified to answer your question? Why does the fact that Christians have taken it to be truth immediately disqualify it for your own standards?

Lastly, research King Agrippa. There are non-biblical sources attached to his name, as he had persecuted Christians in an attempt to win over his Jewish subjects.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

I am the son of god.

I hope you believe that.

As evidence I will tell you that I was born of a virgin.

Do you believe me?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Arasa
Posts: 380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2014 12:26:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/22/2014 12:23:41 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/22/2014 12:16:59 PM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/22/2014 9:49:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/22/2014 8:40:18 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

Well, as for non-biblical evidence, I'm afraid I cannot provide anything off the top of my head. However, as for non-Pauline writing that confirms Paul as having persecuted Christianity, I ask that the account found in the book of Acts to be taken as evidence. It was not written by Paul, and it accounts that Paul condoned and encouraged the stoning of the early Christian and first martyr, Stephen...
Acts 7:58, " Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul."

For explanation of that "laid down their garments" piece, the only explanation is found in Paul's own writing, Acts 22:20, "And when the blood of Stephen your witness wasshed, I also was standing by and approving while guarding the cloaks of the ones who killed him."

Acts 8:1-3, "And Saul approved of his execution.
And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison."

Keep in mind that Acts, up until chapter 9, was written by Luke. After Chapter 9, it was compiled by Luke, meaning that he got together all of the accounts that the disciples, apostles, and a couple others, gave him.
If a non-Pauline biblical source for Paul's persecution of Christianity does not satisfy your qualifications, then let me know.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

I mean WOW.

Non biblical evidence is the request and biblical evidence is what is supplied.

Here is the thing dears. I want historical evidence that the Jews, via the Pharisees of whom SAUL was a member, were persecuting christians.

It is a very important point.

Your original statement indicated that Paul was a liar, and so I gave you non-Pauline references to quell that argument. As for non-biblical entirely, why would you not trust the persecutor's word makes sense, because it might be a lie. But when the persecuted state the action before the persecutor did, you have now a more reliable source when paired.

Now, had Acts not been added to the bible, would that make it qualified to answer your question? Why does the fact that Christians have taken it to be truth immediately disqualify it for your own standards?

Lastly, research King Agrippa. There are non-biblical sources attached to his name, as he had persecuted Christians in an attempt to win over his Jewish subjects.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

I am the son of god.

I hope you believe that.

As evidence I will tell you that I was born of a virgin.

Do you believe me?

On the first... Obviously contradictory considering your earlier and impending future statements.

On the third, I suppose that the next logical step is to ask your mother.

August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2014 12:28:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/22/2014 9:15:02 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 8/22/2014 1:07:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

The silence is deafening!

You'll probably just troll any response that I give, but here's one:
What evidence would there be? If someone was stoned to death, what evidence would that leave behind? People died all the time; what evidence would there be to distinguish a person dying naturally and being stoned to death, especially as very few skeletons from that time period would remain today?
The nature of the persecution of Christians in Judaea is not something that would leave behind evidence.

There is plenty of non biblical written accounts of the persecution of christians by the romans, but not a single word about the their persecution by jews.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2014 12:31:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/23/2014 12:28:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/22/2014 9:15:02 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 8/22/2014 1:07:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

The silence is deafening!

You'll probably just troll any response that I give, but here's one:
What evidence would there be? If someone was stoned to death, what evidence would that leave behind? People died all the time; what evidence would there be to distinguish a person dying naturally and being stoned to death, especially as very few skeletons from that time period would remain today?
The nature of the persecution of Christians in Judaea is not something that would leave behind evidence.

There is plenty of non biblical written accounts of the persecution of christians by the romans, but not a single word about the their persecution by jews.

The Romans made large spectacles of it, such as when they put them in the Colliseum to be killed. It's clear to see why there'd be more evidence of that. Not to mention they had writers like Pliny the Elder/Younger.
The Jewish persecutions of Christians often was just a spontaneous mob, a stoning, and then dispersal.
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2014 1:05:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/23/2014 12:31:51 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 8/23/2014 12:28:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/22/2014 9:15:02 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 8/22/2014 1:07:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

The silence is deafening!

You'll probably just troll any response that I give, but here's one:
What evidence would there be? If someone was stoned to death, what evidence would that leave behind? People died all the time; what evidence would there be to distinguish a person dying naturally and being stoned to death, especially as very few skeletons from that time period would remain today?
The nature of the persecution of Christians in Judaea is not something that would leave behind evidence.

There is plenty of non biblical written accounts of the persecution of christians by the romans, but not a single word about the their persecution by jews.

The Romans made large spectacles of it, such as when they put them in the Colliseum to be killed. It's clear to see why there'd be more evidence of that. Not to mention they had writers like Pliny the Elder/Younger.
The Jewish persecutions of Christians often was just a spontaneous mob, a stoning, and then dispersal.

And you know this how?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2014 1:14:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 8:56:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm asking for non biblical evidence that such persecution ever existed. Was Paul a LIAR to claim that he was a persecutor as a Pharisee?

It would seem that none of the historians of the time ever mentioned it.

What evidence do you have that this saul/paul was telling the truth?

Religious people always claim they are persecuted by other religious people. The interesting point however is that they are always working for the same empire, country, boss etc.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...