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Someone explain this to me please

Korashk
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3/14/2010 3:35:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 9:05:58 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/13/2010 2:09:04 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think citing old testament scripture which is only applicable to Jews who lived thousands of years ago somehow justifies my position

You keep trying Geo.

I would like to know why Old Testament law doesn't apply to Christians. When you do this please cite scripture, don't just explain the concept.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
J.Kenyon
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3/14/2010 3:40:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Old Testament law code refers to the governing of a specific group of people in a specific time and place. It is based on ethical principles that can be derived from ethical absolutes such as those found in the 10 Commandments.
Korashk
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3/14/2010 4:14:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 3:51:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
This is why.

http://bible.logos.com...

I read that passage twice and I don't see where it says that the law of the Old Testament doesn't need to be followed. The only thing that I got from that was Jesus calling pharasies hyppocrits.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
InsertNameHere
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3/14/2010 4:15:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 3:35:03 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 9:05:58 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/13/2010 2:09:04 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think citing old testament scripture which is only applicable to Jews who lived thousands of years ago somehow justifies my position

You keep trying Geo.

I would like to know why Old Testament law doesn't apply to Christians. When you do this please cite scripture, don't just explain the concept.

It's part of the Bible so should be followed by christians as such. :)
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/14/2010 5:20:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://www.gotquestions.org...
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/14/2010 5:24:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 5:20:43 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
http://www.gotquestions.org...

10/10
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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3/14/2010 5:33:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 5:20:43 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
http://www.gotquestions.org...

Thank you R_R, I have another question. Since that article does a good job explaining Christian law whhere is the justification in Christiand hating homosexual behavior?
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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3/14/2010 5:41:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 5:33:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Thank you R_R, I have another question. Since that article does a good job explaining Christian law whhere is the justification in Christiand hating homosexual behavior?

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

I Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons....
Korashk
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3/14/2010 6:23:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 5:41:59 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:33:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Thank you R_R, I have another question. Since that article does a good job explaining Christian law whhere is the justification in Christiand hating homosexual behavior?

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

I Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons....

I'm fairly certain that Leviticus is Old Testament law, which we already discussed. 1 Corinthians was, if I'm not mistaken, a letter written by Paul. As was 1 Timothy. Why should the words of a man supersede those of Jesus whom the article claims said to:

"love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself"
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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3/14/2010 6:52:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 6:23:33 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'm fairly certain that Leviticus is Old Testament law, which we already discussed. 1 Corinthians was, if I'm not mistaken, a letter written by Paul. As was 1 Timothy. Why should the words of a man supersede those of Jesus whom the article claims said to:

"love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself"

Agreed. However, people like Ray Comfort and Billy Graham are doing their very best to dumb Christianity down so that most of it's adherents don't understand things like different covenants. Personally, I don't think Paul's writings should be included in the Biblical canon; it seems so out of step with everything else.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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3/14/2010 6:57:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 5:33:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:20:43 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
http://www.gotquestions.org...

Thank you R_R, I have another question. Since that article does a good job explaining Christian law whhere is the justification in Christiand hating homosexual behavior?

http://www.debate.org...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/14/2010 7:59:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 6:23:33 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:41:59 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:33:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Thank you R_R, I have another question. Since that article does a good job explaining Christian law whhere is the justification in Christiand hating homosexual behavior?

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

I Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons....

"love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself"
It doesn't say to love your neighbor with your **** now does it?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/15/2010 12:59:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 3:35:03 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 9:05:58 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/13/2010 2:09:04 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think citing old testament scripture which is only applicable to Jews who lived thousands of years ago somehow justifies my position

You keep trying Geo.

I would like to know why Old Testament law doesn't apply to Christians. When you do this please cite scripture, don't just explain the concept.

Well those crazy Jews have too many darned crazy rules! I mean sure Jesus was a Jewish fundementalist who demanded strict adherence to these rules, but stuff it... its just too hard man. Have a bacon sandwich!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
tkubok
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3/15/2010 7:11:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 7:59:36 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/14/2010 6:23:33 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:41:59 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:33:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Thank you R_R, I have another question. Since that article does a good job explaining Christian law whhere is the justification in Christiand hating homosexual behavior?

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

I Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons....

"love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself"
It doesn't say to love your neighbor with your **** now does it?

The better question here is, how does this preclude rape? It sure as hell doesnt say love your neighbor with your ****, but it deosnt say you shouldnt, either.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/15/2010 7:54:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/15/2010 7:11:50 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 3/14/2010 7:59:36 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/14/2010 6:23:33 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:41:59 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:33:26 PM, Korashk wrote:
Thank you R_R, I have another question. Since that article does a good job explaining Christian law whhere is the justification in Christiand hating homosexual behavior?

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

I Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons....

"love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself"
It doesn't say to love your neighbor with your **** now does it?

The better question here is, how does this preclude rape? It sure as hell doesnt say love your neighbor with your ****, but it deosnt say you shouldnt, either.

Would you want to be raped?

Given your answer to that, assuming it's not "How hot is the girl who intends to do it?" (in which case we're not really talking about rape), is it really loving your neighbor as yourself?

Some Christians would give an old testament reference but anything short of the Commandments for that is obviously inconsistent. And don't tell me gay sex is loving you neighbor as yourself, for like it or not, Paul is in the gospel and has a separate prohibition. It is not the place of the sheep to question which books are authentic, that's why they are sheep :P.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
tkubok
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3/15/2010 8:14:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/15/2010 7:54:53 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Would you want to be raped?
By a girl? Bring it on. And i can name 10 other guys off the top of my head who would agree with me.
Given your answer to that, assuming it's not "How hot is the girl who intends to do it?" (in which case we're not really talking about rape), is it really loving your neighbor as yourself?
How is it not?
Some Christians would give an old testament reference but anything short of the Commandments for that is obviously inconsistent. And don't tell me gay sex is loving you neighbor as yourself, for like it or not, Paul is in the gospel and has a separate prohibition. It is not the place of the sheep to question which books are authentic, that's why they are sheep :P.

First off, Were all sheep, including Paul.

Secondly, the moral obligations included in the old testament, INCLUDE things like slavery. I mean, why have we abolished Slavery, when Jesus himself said to treat your masters with respect, ESPECIALLY if they are harsh, and never abolished slavery? Do you have any objections to slavery? You cannot throw out the old testament while keeping it too. Either the moral obligations from the old testament, are valid, or they are not. And if some of them are valid, please tell me how you came to that conclusion, especially when, even at the sermon of the mount, Jesus says "Not a jolt or title of the law will change until heaven and earth pass, and any who break even the least of these laws will be called the least in heaven."
feverish
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3/15/2010 8:16:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 5:24:53 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:20:43 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
http://www.gotquestions.org...

10/10

Fair enough but what about these? The first two are of course direct quotes from Jesus.

Mathew 5:
" 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Luke 16:
"17"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

2 Timothy 3:
"16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

2 Peter 1:
"20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation"
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/15/2010 11:42:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 3:35:03 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 9:05:58 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/13/2010 2:09:04 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think citing old testament scripture which is only applicable to Jews who lived thousands of years ago somehow justifies my position

You keep trying Geo.

I would like to know why Old Testament law doesn't apply to Christians. When you do this please cite scripture, don't just explain the concept.

The old testament is the old 'testimony' of who God is, His revelation of Himself to the Jews through the Law and through Moses.
It was a covenant of the flesh (symbolised by circumcision) and therefore was rendered imperfect by imperfect man.

Christians are part of the new testimony: Jesus Christ is the true testimony of God, the true revelation of who God really is. The cross of Christ reveals God's true nature, that in exchange for injustice, mockery, torture and barbaric execution, He gives us the gift of Eternal Life.

He is the 'Word made flesh'.. as my words are the testimony of my heart, (both good and bad, lie and truth) so Christ is the true testimony of God.

1.Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/16/2010 2:32:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/15/2010 11:42:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/14/2010 3:35:03 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 9:05:58 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/13/2010 2:09:04 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think citing old testament scripture which is only applicable to Jews who lived thousands of years ago somehow justifies my position

You keep trying Geo.

I would like to know why Old Testament law doesn't apply to Christians. When you do this please cite scripture, don't just explain the concept.



The old testament is the old 'testimony' of who God is, His revelation of Himself to the Jews through the Law and through Moses.
It was a covenant of the flesh (symbolised by circumcision) and therefore was rendered imperfect by imperfect man.

Christians are part of the new testimony: Jesus Christ is the true testimony of God, the true revelation of who God really is.

So again. why don't you follow what Jesus said?

The cross of Christ reveals God's true nature, that in exchange for injustice, mockery, torture and barbaric execution, He gives us the gift of Eternal Life.


Which can't be explained... so is nonsense, but anyway... it is conditional on believing in this... and following ALL the laws of God.

He is the 'Word made flesh'.. as my words are the testimony of my heart, (both good and bad, lie and truth) so Christ is the true testimony of God.


Which you ignore?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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3/16/2010 4:22:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/15/2010 8:16:03 AM, feverish wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:24:53 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/14/2010 5:20:43 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
http://www.gotquestions.org...

10/10

Fair enough but what about these? The first two are of course direct quotes from Jesus.

Mathew 5:
" 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Luke 16:
"17"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

2 Timothy 3:
"16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

2 Peter 1:
"20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation"

Bump. Any Christians interested in explaining the apparent contradiction of scripture here?
Korashk
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3/16/2010 5:37:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Those verses are very interesting feverish, and seem to counter the evidence that the Old Testament doesn't apply to Christians.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/19/2010 7:43:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 2:32:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/15/2010 11:42:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/14/2010 3:35:03 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 9:05:58 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/13/2010 2:09:04 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think citing old testament scripture which is only applicable to Jews who lived thousands of years ago somehow justifies my position

You keep trying Geo.

I would like to know why Old Testament law doesn't apply to Christians. When you do this please cite scripture, don't just explain the concept.



The old testament is the old 'testimony' of who God is, His revelation of Himself to the Jews through the Law and through Moses.
It was a covenant of the flesh (symbolised by circumcision) and therefore was rendered imperfect by imperfect man.

Christians are part of the new testimony: Jesus Christ is the true testimony of God, the true revelation of who God really is.

So again. why don't you follow what Jesus said?

To which particual failings of mine do you refer?

The cross of Christ reveals God's true nature, that in exchange for injustice, mockery, torture and barbaric execution, He gives us the gift of Eternal Life.


Which can't be explained... so is nonsense, but anyway... it is conditional on believing in this... and following ALL the laws of God.

It is explained in terms of sacrifice; but as you will not concede that men dying in a war have sacrificed their lives for the greater good, or that animal sacrifices pay for sins then what hope of you of understanding spirituality?

You brag, insult etc whilst revealing yourself to be a singuarly clueless individual.

He is the 'Word made flesh'.. as my words are the testimony of my heart, (both good and bad, lie and truth) so Christ is the true testimony of God.


Which you ignore?

Again, this makes no sense.
The Cross.. the Cross.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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3/19/2010 11:17:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hey DATC, wonder if you could shed some light for me on how these lines from the New Testament fit in with the concept that Christians don't need to follow Mosaic or other Old Testament law?

Mathew 5:
" 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Luke 16:
"17"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

2 Timothy 3:
"16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

2 Peter 1:
"20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation"
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/19/2010 12:34:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/14/2010 3:35:03 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 9:05:58 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/13/2010 2:09:04 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think citing old testament scripture which is only applicable to Jews who lived thousands of years ago somehow justifies my position

You keep trying Geo.

I would like to know why Old Testament law doesn't apply to Christians. When you do this please cite scripture, don't just explain the concept.

I never said that. collegekitchen misquoted me.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/19/2010 12:44:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/19/2010 7:43:25 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/16/2010 2:32:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 3/15/2010 11:42:51 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/14/2010 3:35:03 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 3/14/2010 9:05:58 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/13/2010 2:09:04 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think citing old testament scripture which is only applicable to Jews who lived thousands of years ago somehow justifies my position

You keep trying Geo.

I would like to know why Old Testament law doesn't apply to Christians. When you do this please cite scripture, don't just explain the concept.



The old testament is the old 'testimony' of who God is, His revelation of Himself to the Jews through the Law and through Moses.
It was a covenant of the flesh (symbolised by circumcision) and therefore was rendered imperfect by imperfect man.

Christians are part of the new testimony: Jesus Christ is the true testimony of God, the true revelation of who God really is.

So again. why don't you follow what Jesus said?

To which particual failings of mine do you refer?

The cross of Christ reveals God's true nature, that in exchange for injustice, mockery, torture and barbaric execution, He gives us the gift of Eternal Life.


Which can't be explained... so is nonsense, but anyway... it is conditional on believing in this... and following ALL the laws of God.

It is explained in terms of sacrifice;

What sacrifice?

but as you will not concede that men dying in a war have sacrificed their lives for the greater good,

1: That is sacrifice in a different context.
2: This is a variation on your original claim, so you do not know if I accept, deny or whatever that claim.

or that animal sacrifices pay for sins then what hope of you of understanding spirituality?

As I have made clear before I fully understand that, so your reply is incredible dishonest.

Now to force you to return to the argument.

The onus is on you is to establish how the death of Jesus is a sacrifice to appease Jehovah, when in actuality Jesus was executed by a polytheistic state for the crimes of sedition, and when your theology claims Jesus is also God and so can't obviously be a sacrifice to appease himself.


You brag, insult etc whilst revealing yourself to be a singuarly clueless individual.


Brag? Insult... maybe, there is nothing wrong with pulling you up for your deficiencies. But clueless... I am not the one avoiding the argument and making up my religion as I go along.

He is the 'Word made flesh'.. as my words are the testimony of my heart, (both good and bad, lie and truth) so Christ is the true testimony of God.


Which you ignore?

Again, this makes no sense.

For instance, do you make sure that your food is kosher?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
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3/24/2010 4:01:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/19/2010 12:44:05 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
It is explained in terms of sacrifice;

What sacrifice?

I assumed (by your lofty manner) that you were conversant with basic Christian theology.. forgive me, let's try again:

When Adam chose satan's word ("You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.") over God's Word (And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.") he essentially betrayed himself and all humanity over to God's enemy in the same way that a war-time spy might betray his country.
He became a traitor, and as all humanity was within Adam, (genetically speaking) we are all born as traitors and as God's enemies.

God has Himself tackled this by sending His only begotten Son as a sacrifice, to pay the price to satan for his legally acquired property. (us)

Consider:

John 13:3
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God;


John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.


John 18:6-7
"I am he," Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.

John 18:8
"I told you that I am he," Jesus answered. "If you are looking for me, then let these men go."


but as you will not concede that men dying in a war have sacrificed their lives for the greater good,

1: That is sacrifice in a different context.
2: This is a variation on your original claim, so you do not know if I accept, deny or whatever that claim.

or that animal sacrifices pay for sins then what hope of you of understanding spirituality?

As I have made clear before I fully understand that, so your reply is incredible dishonest.

Now to force you to return to the argument.

The onus is on you is to establish how the death of Jesus is a sacrifice to appease Jehovah, when in actuality Jesus was executed by a polytheistic state for the crimes of sedition, and when your theology claims Jesus is also God and so can't obviously be a sacrifice to appease himself.

Hope the above has helped.


You brag, insult etc whilst revealing yourself to be a singularly clueless individual.


Brag? Insult... maybe, there is nothing wrong with pulling you up for your deficiencies. But clueless... I am not the one avoiding the argument and making up my religion as I go along.

He is the 'Word made flesh'.. as my words are the testimony of my heart, (both good and bad, lie and truth) so Christ is the true testimony of God.


Which you ignore?

Again, this makes no sense.

For instance, do you make sure that your food is kosher?

Matthew 15:16-18 (New International Version)

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'


You appear to be several thousand fathoms out of your depth.
The Cross.. the Cross.
feverish
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3/24/2010 5:39:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/19/2010 11:17:25 AM, feverish wrote:
Hey DATC, wonder if you could shed some light for me on how these lines from the New Testament fit in with the concept that Christians don't need to follow Mosaic or other Old Testament law?

Mathew 5:
" 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Luke 16:
"17"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

2 Timothy 3:
"16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

2 Peter 1:
"20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation"

Bump @ DATC
Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/24/2010 8:40:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/24/2010 4:01:58 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/19/2010 12:44:05 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
It is explained in terms of sacrifice;

What sacrifice?

I assumed (by your lofty manner) that you were conversant with basic Christian theology.. forgive me, let's try again:

When Adam chose satan's word ("You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.") over God's Word (And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.") he essentially betrayed himself and all humanity over to God's enemy in the same way that a war-time spy might betray his country.
He became a traitor, and as all humanity was within Adam, (genetically speaking) we are all born as traitors and as God's enemies.

God has Himself tackled this by sending His only begotten Son as a sacrifice, to pay the price to satan for his legally acquired property. (us)


So to 'clarify' Jesus... who is God... is a sacrifice to Satan?

A little prediction is that you will ignore this reply, oh give a dishonest evasive response but if you could for once defend your views that would be grand.

Consider:

John 13:3
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God;


John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.


John 18:6-7
"I am he," Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground.

John 18:8
"I told you that I am he," Jesus answered. "If you are looking for me, then let these men go."


but as you will not concede that men dying in a war have sacrificed their lives for the greater good,

1: That is sacrifice in a different context.
2: This is a variation on your original claim, so you do not know if I accept, deny or whatever that claim.

or that animal sacrifices pay for sins then what hope of you of understanding spirituality?

As I have made clear before I fully understand that, so your reply is incredible dishonest.

Now to force you to return to the argument.

The onus is on you is to establish how the death of Jesus is a sacrifice to appease Jehovah, when in actuality Jesus was executed by a polytheistic state for the crimes of sedition, and when your theology claims Jesus is also God and so can't obviously be a sacrifice to appease himself.

Hope the above has helped.


No it has not, you are now claiming that Jesus is a sacrifice to the devil. This is a major change in the premise of the argument. You can't just change the core foundation of a religion... well okay... I know Christians do that every other week but well, you can hardly expect me to worship something that does more u-turns than a Labour Minister!


You brag, insult etc whilst revealing yourself to be a singularly clueless individual.


Brag? Insult... maybe, there is nothing wrong with pulling you up for your deficiencies. But clueless... I am not the one avoiding the argument and making up my religion as I go along.

He is the 'Word made flesh'.. as my words are the testimony of my heart, (both good and bad, lie and truth) so Christ is the true testimony of God.


Which you ignore?

Again, this makes no sense.

For instance, do you make sure that your food is kosher?

Matthew 15:16-18 (New International Version)

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'


Mathew 5: 17-20
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

So again... why do you not follow the old Judaic law?


You appear to be several thousand fathoms out of your depth.

In what way?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.