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Freedom "From" Religion Foundation @ it again

Jikpamu
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8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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8/28/2014 11:08:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Yay? Is this supposed to be controversial? The school is a part of the government, so they shouldn't be promoting one religion (or one major group of religions) over any others, or at all.
Kc1999
Posts: 1,037
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8/28/2014 11:11:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

This is disgusting. Disgusting to the utmost; albeit I am an atheist, I believe strongly in secularism. It is disgusting that an atheist can do this to a cause in which it oughts to destroy; intolerance.

Atheism is turned into a bad force when secularism is ignored.
#NoToMobocracy #BladeStroink
Installgentoo
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8/28/2014 11:33:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 11:08:16 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Yay? Is this supposed to be controversial? The school is a part of the government, so they shouldn't be promoting one religion (or one major group of religions) over any others, or at all.

You're an idiot.

Teachers working outside school time= not government workers. Therefore, the government in this case is not promoting any one religion

I bet you're the kind of personw ho would cry discrimination, if, say, a Muslim teacher got told she couldn't bring a qu'ran in.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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8/28/2014 11:48:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 11:08:16 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Yay? Is this supposed to be controversial? The school is a part of the government, so they shouldn't be promoting one religion (or one major group of religions) over any others, or at all.

They can't deliberately exclude it either. As soon as they move to block ... Someone will sue. And then atheists will be in that position of having to make the case why other peoples religion makes them worse than slaves.

It isn't controversial if you are a fascist that hates free speech I suppose.
josht
Posts: 36
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8/28/2014 11:59:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

As usual its hateful atheists who are trying to destroy religion and christianity. I do not understand why they feel the need to destroy religion. They will never succeed because many of us are true christians who have faith in christ will never give him up. True christians dont need these schools to teach them the truth because they will realise it themselves anyways.
josht
Posts: 36
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8/28/2014 12:02:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 11:48:16 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/28/2014 11:08:16 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Yay? Is this supposed to be controversial? The school is a part of the government, so they shouldn't be promoting one religion (or one major group of religions) over any others, or at all.

They can't deliberately exclude it either. As soon as they move to block ... Someone will sue. And then atheists will be in that position of having to make the case why other peoples religion makes them worse than slaves.

It isn't controversial if you are a fascist that hates free speech I suppose.

True very true. If the school was forced to stop teaching something atheistic however the atheist you are replying to would be going "OMG THEY CANT DO THAT !!!1!!1!". These people are huge hypocrites.
neutral
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8/28/2014 12:06:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 12:02:37 PM, josht wrote:
At 8/28/2014 11:48:16 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/28/2014 11:08:16 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Yay? Is this supposed to be controversial? The school is a part of the government, so they shouldn't be promoting one religion (or one major group of religions) over any others, or at all.

They can't deliberately exclude it either. As soon as they move to block ... Someone will sue. And then atheists will be in that position of having to make the case why other peoples religion makes them worse than slaves.

It isn't controversial if you are a fascist that hates free speech I suppose.

True very true. If the school was forced to stop teaching something atheistic however the atheist you are replying to would be going "OMG THEY CANT DO THAT !!!1!!1!". These people are huge hypocrites.

The worst part is, atheists will claim they are victims when the school gets used for crumbling to their threats. Atheists ate deliberately picking these fights. Again, what sort of institution runs around looking to police communities with no issues by introducing them and suing over them?

Ambulance chasers and atheists?
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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8/28/2014 4:05:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 11:48:16 AM, neutral wrote:
At 8/28/2014 11:08:16 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Yay? Is this supposed to be controversial? The school is a part of the government, so they shouldn't be promoting one religion (or one major group of religions) over any others, or at all.

They can't deliberately exclude it either. As soon as they move to block ... Someone will sue. And then atheists will be in that position of having to make the case why other peoples religion makes them worse than slaves.

It isn't controversial if you are a fascist that hates free speech I suppose.

The school was inviting ministers to come pray before events. The FFRF didn't threaten to sue to ban individuals at the school from praying for themselves. That would, indeed, be a free speech problem. But the school was inviting religious representatives to come pray and, it seems, producing religious t-shirts. That's a huge problem.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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8/28/2014 7:46:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

All that happened is the SCHOOL, which is part of the government (since it is a public school), can no longer include religious preaching, symbolism, songs, etc. during school events/in school. That is the law, so there is no issue here. If a student wants to bring in a shirt that mentions god, they can. Can the school make a shirt that has religious message/symbols/etc. on it? No. Can a student pray? Yes. Can the school bring in a minister to pray? No.

Learn the law, then you can bring this stuff up.
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dee-em
Posts: 6,466
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8/28/2014 9:32:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 11:59:31 AM, josht wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

As usual its hateful atheists who are trying to destroy religion and christianity. I do not understand why they feel the need to destroy religion.

Get a grip. The issue is keeping it out of secular schools. No atheist has tried to shut down a church.

They will never succeed because many of us are true christians who have faith in christ will never give him up.

As is your right.

True christians dont need these schools to teach them the truth because they will realise it themselves anyways.

If true Christians don't need to impose their beliefs in secular schools, why are they doing it?
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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8/28/2014 9:58:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 9:32:19 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/28/2014 11:59:31 AM, josht wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

As usual its hateful atheists who are trying to destroy religion and christianity. I do not understand why they feel the need to destroy religion.

Get a grip. The issue is keeping it out of secular schools. No atheist has tried to shut down a church.

http://www.theblaze.com...:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

They will never succeed because many of us are true christians who have faith in christ will never give him up.

As is your right.

True christians dont need these schools to teach them the truth because they will realise it themselves anyways.

If true Christians don't need to impose their beliefs in secular schools, why are they doing it?
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annanicole
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8/28/2014 10:00:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Was the chaplain a paid employee of the school, or more precisely, was he paid to function in this capacity? If so, I can understand it. Schools cannot pay someone to push their own brand of religion. If, however, he was serving voluntarily, with the implied consent of the majority of the players/coaches, then that's a little different.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dee-em
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8/28/2014 10:05:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 9:58:18 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

http://www.theblaze.com...

Wild talk, not action. Yes, there are some extremists in any group of people. You must have had to dig hard to find this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The Soviet Union was an atheist?
Keltron
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8/28/2014 10:37:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

FFRF doing good work as usual. And it's not an "atheist organization." It amazes me that people who fancy themselves constitutionalists will cry all day long about the second amendment, while completely ignoring the first.
Installgentoo
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8/28/2014 10:57:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:05:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/28/2014 9:58:18 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:

http://www.theblaze.com...

Wild talk, not action. Yes, there are some extremists in any group of people. You must have had to dig hard to find this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The Soviet Union was an atheist?

Keep on shifting those goalposts, bro.
ThinkFirst
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8/28/2014 11:13:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

The fact of the matter, here, is that NO religions should be PROMOTED OR PREVENTED. If the school, irrespective of when or where the school-sponsored even takes place, wishes to bring someone in for "inspiration," they should either represent ALL religions or NONE. School is not a place where religion belongs, at all. School is a place where FACTS are taught; not fantasy. Praying, especially for a sports event, just might be among the most arrogant things that any religious person can do. What would a prayer, in that context, include?

"Dear lord... Please tear your eyes away from all those insignificant third world nation inhabitants long enough to insure that our white picket fence children are not injured during their sports event. Please bless our athletic children with lots of "inspiration" for home runs, touchdowns, three-pointers, and keep them from hurting themselves. After our game is over, please be sure to return to your "regularly scheduled program" of appearing in water stains on the side of adobe buildings and making statues cry in desolate area churches. Thy will be done, on the football field, as it is in heaven. Please keep our cheerleaders from falling into the temptation of "giving it up" to all of the athletes in search of popularity. Keep them chaste and virtuous, even when they're behind the bleachers, after the game. Please let preaching "abstinence" work better for us than it did for Sarah Palin. Keep their hearts focused on your "plan," while playing their little hearts out, in your honor. Help them to remember to cross themselves, every time they perform admirably during a game, in order that you receive the glory from the human athleticism. We all know it's you, not us, who is actually performing the spectacular feats of athleticism, and don't let the other team forget it, either. Oh, and bless all the people suffering, as soon as you're done guiding our privileged brats to victory over the "other christians," because we know they aren't really christians. They have a mormon for a quarterback, and we all know they teach false religion."

Amen

Are all the christians in this forum deriding the school for not having invited leaders from other religions? Of course not. On what do they focus? On the fact that they were denied something they want. Not that other religions weren't included, making it "FAIR" for ALL religions; no. Since this is a "Christian Nation," we have to make sure that we provide access to preach and proselytize to them while their still young, right? We're going to throw fits and scream about "freedom of speech." On the converse, we are also going to pitch conniptions about atheist billboards (just disgusting!), because it's "disrespectful."

I get so tired of hearing how christians' "rights" are being "trampled," whenever they're not allowed to simply do as they please, where they please, when they please. Never once have I seen a christian show the remotest bit of balance in their view of legislation with respect to where their religion is allowed to reach. They never protest prevention of RELIGIOUS practices. I only see protestations in regard to CHRISTIAN practices. More than just a little imbalanced and self-serving, I'd say.

I didn't read anywhere in there that students were being prevented from leading their own prayers, if the entire group so chose. The christians are protesting that they were allowed to bring in outside influence and solicitation on behalf of christianity. It's not "inspirational." It's underhanded proselytizing. You don't get to influence young, impressionable minds. Boo Hoo. Get over it.
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neutral
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8/28/2014 11:53:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 4:05:15 PM, Burzmali wrote:


The school was inviting ministers to come pray before events. The FFRF didn't threaten to sue to ban individuals at the school from praying for themselves. That would, indeed, be a free speech problem. But the school was inviting religious representatives to come pray and, it seems, producing religious t-shirts. That's a huge problem.

So?

http://www.latimes.com...

The SCOTUS just weighed in on this exact case. You CAN, and indeed in a SECULAR society in which ALL views protected, be allowed to bring people in to pray before a game. That SHOULD include members of other faiths - not the complete banning thereof. I mean it is an increasingly interconnected world, would we not want our children exposed to things like Islam? Buddhism? Hinduism? Do we not want our children knowledgeable of other cultures?

T-Shirts? Are you kidding me? The school acknowledges that the wider community it lives in is religious, and (you pay for T-Shirts), in a display of simple market sense, sells T-Shirts to raise money and succeeds? But atheists are pissed off that other people, VOLUNTARILY wear the school shirt with a religious symbol and some do not? The agony of being an atheist and simply stating, "I don't think we should be mixing religion and school spirit," or something else - is now a form of torture?

We want our young atheist children to be unable to handle disagreement they are sure to find in the wider world like adults? We want them to think that law suits rather than tolerance of different opinions, which they should give and EXPECT is the right way? Tolerance by blocking everyone else's expression under threat? Really?

And when you block someone's PROTECTED SPEECH, undermine the very principles of secularism as outlined in the Establishment Clause, and someone picks up the nascent challenge and sues you right back? We will learn that taking minor issues and spinning them into a National sop light, wasting millions of dollars, sharpening sectarianism, creating hurt feelings, and creating a culture war over T-Shirts is a pretty much an all around waste of time.

Again, if there were some tangible issues here? Atheists being bullied? Denied access to classes? Forced to eat lunch in a separate facility? Denied counseling? Subjected to different standards of discipline? Eschewed away from scholarship applications? Something that ACTUALLY demonstrated harm, I'd be there with them - as would almost every Christian I personally know.

But when you sue us for merely being who we are? Block us? You are simply picking a fight, one on which the SCOTUS JUST weighed in on.

And when this same group attempted to force a 'reason station' (as if reason is the monopoly of atheism) we got a good look at what the secular community think of such antics.

"To my way of thinking, your group is strictly an anti-religion group intending to deprive all organized religions of their constitutional freedoms or at least discourage the practice of religion," Fouts wrote. "The City of Warren cannot allow this."

"Also, I believe it is group"s intention to disrupt those who participate in the Prayer Station which would also be a violation of the freedom of religion amendment," he added. "For these reasons, I cannot approve of your request."

http://www.rawstory.com...

Again, you have a group that is DELIBERATELY seeking opportunities to block speech ... and has turned T-Shirts into an emotionalized weapon of mass destruction.

Indeed, softer versions of atheism openly preach in pubic:

"But perhaps I"m a more insidious foe than Dennett and Dawkins. For instead of ignoring important species of religion, I want to prepare the way for their gradual disappearance."

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...

If you are looking for the single biggest issue with modern atheism, you have found it here. The dismissal of religious speech as so ignorant and without merit, that we have organizations actively raising funds to sue to block it, with a oft stated public position that they want to eliminate religion.

Is atheism the Hezbollah of the religious world? Or are you guys merely reasoned dissenters, who acknowledge that you are one of many voices on a wide spectrum of religious views? A wide spectrum that SHOULD be encouraged to speak, rather than universally blocked because atheists have turned T-Shirts into something more insidious than Chemical Weapons?
Burzmali
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8/29/2014 11:48:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 11:53:45 PM, neutral wrote:
At 8/28/2014 4:05:15 PM, Burzmali wrote:


The school was inviting ministers to come pray before events. The FFRF didn't threaten to sue to ban individuals at the school from praying for themselves. That would, indeed, be a free speech problem. But the school was inviting religious representatives to come pray and, it seems, producing religious t-shirts. That's a huge problem.

So?

http://www.latimes.com...

The SCOTUS just weighed in on this exact case. You CAN, and indeed in a SECULAR society in which ALL views protected, be allowed to bring people in to pray before a game. That SHOULD include members of other faiths - not the complete banning thereof. I mean it is an increasingly interconnected world, would we not want our children exposed to things like Islam? Buddhism? Hinduism? Do we not want our children knowledgeable of other cultures?

That story is vastly different from the issue of prayer at schools and school events. In fact, if you read the docs on that decision, one of the assenting judges (Breyer, I think) even explicitly called out that school prayer was a different animal and that he would rule differently if it had been about that.

T-Shirts? Are you kidding me? The school acknowledges that the wider community it lives in is religious, and (you pay for T-Shirts), in a display of simple market sense, sells T-Shirts to raise money and succeeds? But atheists are pissed off that other people, VOLUNTARILY wear the school shirt with a religious symbol and some do not? The agony of being an atheist and simply stating, "I don't think we should be mixing religion and school spirit," or something else - is now a form of torture?

Atheists don't care that people wear the shirts. They care that the school made them in the first place. That's a government entity (the school) endorsing a particular religious segment by printing religious shirts.

We want our young atheist children to be unable to handle disagreement they are sure to find in the wider world like adults? We want them to think that law suits rather than tolerance of different opinions, which they should give and EXPECT is the right way? Tolerance by blocking everyone else's expression under threat? Really?

And when you block someone's PROTECTED SPEECH, undermine the very principles of secularism as outlined in the Establishment Clause, and someone picks up the nascent challenge and sues you right back? We will learn that taking minor issues and spinning them into a National sop light, wasting millions of dollars, sharpening sectarianism, creating hurt feelings, and creating a culture war over T-Shirts is a pretty much an all around waste of time.

No individual had their freedom of expression blocked. A government entity was warned that a lawsuit would follow if they continued to endorse/favor one form of religion over others. It really is that simple. You, and other Christians, appear to be upset that your Christian privilege is being challenged. I'm sorry, but the constitution just isn't on your side on this.

Again, if there were some tangible issues here? Atheists being bullied? Denied access to classes? Forced to eat lunch in a separate facility? Denied counseling? Subjected to different standards of discipline? Eschewed away from scholarship applications? Something that ACTUALLY demonstrated harm, I'd be there with them - as would almost every Christian I personally know.

A government body endorsing a religion is a significant issue. Promoting one religion over others creates an atmosphere of exclusion for people of other faiths and those of no faith.

But when you sue us for merely being who we are? Block us? You are simply picking a fight, one on which the SCOTUS JUST weighed in on.

No one is being threatened with a lawsuit for being who they are.

And when this same group attempted to force a 'reason station' (as if reason is the monopoly of atheism) we got a good look at what the secular community think of such antics.

I don't know what the hell you're even talking about, here. As far as I can tell, this and everything after it is off on a tangent.
neutral
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8/29/2014 12:05:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 11:48:39 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 8/28/2014 11:53:45 PM, neutral wrote:
At 8/28/2014 4:05:15 PM, Burzmali wrote:


The school was inviting ministers to come pray before events. The FFRF didn't threaten to sue to ban individuals at the school from praying for themselves. That would, indeed, be a free speech problem. But the school was inviting religious representatives to come pray and, it seems, producing religious t-shirts. That's a huge problem.

So?

http://www.latimes.com...

The SCOTUS just weighed in on this exact case. You CAN, and indeed in a SECULAR society in which ALL views protected, be allowed to bring people in to pray before a game. That SHOULD include members of other faiths - not the complete banning thereof. I mean it is an increasingly interconnected world, would we not want our children exposed to things like Islam? Buddhism? Hinduism? Do we not want our children knowledgeable of other cultures?

That story is vastly different from the issue of prayer at schools and school events. In fact, if you read the docs on that decision, one of the assenting judges (Breyer, I think) even explicitly called out that school prayer was a different animal and that he would rule differently if it had been about that.

T-Shirts? Are you kidding me? The school acknowledges that the wider community it lives in is religious, and (you pay for T-Shirts), in a display of simple market sense, sells T-Shirts to raise money and succeeds? But atheists are pissed off that other people, VOLUNTARILY wear the school shirt with a religious symbol and some do not? The agony of being an atheist and simply stating, "I don't think we should be mixing religion and school spirit," or something else - is now a form of torture?

Atheists don't care that people wear the shirts. They care that the school made them in the first place. That's a government entity (the school) endorsing a particular religious segment by printing religious shirts.

We want our young atheist children to be unable to handle disagreement they are sure to find in the wider world like adults? We want them to think that law suits rather than tolerance of different opinions, which they should give and EXPECT is the right way? Tolerance by blocking everyone else's expression under threat? Really?

And when you block someone's PROTECTED SPEECH, undermine the very principles of secularism as outlined in the Establishment Clause, and someone picks up the nascent challenge and sues you right back? We will learn that taking minor issues and spinning them into a National sop light, wasting millions of dollars, sharpening sectarianism, creating hurt feelings, and creating a culture war over T-Shirts is a pretty much an all around waste of time.

No individual had their freedom of expression blocked. A government entity was warned that a lawsuit would follow if they continued to endorse/favor one form of religion over others. It really is that simple. You, and other Christians, appear to be upset that your Christian privilege is being challenged. I'm sorry, but the constitution just isn't on your side on this.

Again, if there were some tangible issues here? Atheists being bullied? Denied access to classes? Forced to eat lunch in a separate facility? Denied counseling? Subjected to different standards of discipline? Eschewed away from scholarship applications? Something that ACTUALLY demonstrated harm, I'd be there with them - as would almost every Christian I personally know.

A government body endorsing a religion is a significant issue. Promoting one religion over others creates an atmosphere of exclusion for people of other faiths and those of no faith.

But when you sue us for merely being who we are? Block us? You are simply picking a fight, one on which the SCOTUS JUST weighed in on.

No one is being threatened with a lawsuit for being who they are.

And when this same group attempted to force a 'reason station' (as if reason is the monopoly of atheism) we got a good look at what the secular community think of such antics.

I don't know what the hell you're even talking about, here. As far as I can tell, this and everything after it is off on a tangent.

Two problems, "I think," verses steady SCOTUS support for prayer at events including two I just listed for skepticalone. Greece vs Galloway explicitly protecting the right.

Again, its one thing to MAKE you pray, its quite another when you attempt to STOP OTHERS from praying. Generally speaking SCOTUS agrees, as most religious people do, that the former is bad, and the later is good and should be protected.

T-SHirts, the high school did not make them, obviously. A High School, with number one in mind, should be able to ORDER school shirts that contain any number of logos, including religious ones. If you can have Bart Simpson on a shirt, you can have a religious logo on the shirt. A Nike Swoosh? Religion. Its up to the person buying the shirt. If there are multiple versions available? No big deal.

Again, it ONLY becomes wrong when we force atheists to wear a religious symbol against the EXPRESSED desire not too. If the school is doing that? No worries.

The fundamental difference here is that atheism seems to think its practice is about blocking other expression. THAT is not atheism, that is nihilism. The former is protected, the later is bigotry. SCOTUS and the general public are clearly seeing it that way. And yes, when you sue someone from practicing their faith, you are suing them for being who they are.
MysticEgg
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8/29/2014 4:11:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Oh, America. :')
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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8/29/2014 7:42:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 4:11:05 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Oh, America. :')

This happens in European countries too, just with Imams.
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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8/29/2014 11:47:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And yet, the standards don't apply to them.

http://christiannews.net...

"You have every right to torment yourself with such insanity"but leave me out of it. I have better things to do with my life."

Lol. Obviously.

"Christianity, besides being false, is also abhorrent," it alleges. "It amazes me that you claim to love the god of the bible, a hateful, arrogant, sexist, cruel being who can"t tolerate criticism. I would not want to live in the same neighborhood with such a creature! The biblical god is a macho male warrior."

Is that god... projected in the mirror?
MysticEgg
Posts: 524
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8/30/2014 4:06:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 7:42:59 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 8/29/2014 4:11:05 PM, MysticEgg wrote:
At 8/28/2014 10:43:07 AM, Jikpamu wrote:
Thursday, August 28, 2014

An atheist group has successfully pressured a school district in Florida to quit allowing local ministers to provide pregame and post-game prayers for football players, threatening a suit over claimed constitutional infractions.

Bible verses and all references to the Bible are also banned on school property, including on clothing produced by the school. And songs with religious lyrics can"t be used in school-related videos, Fox News reported.

The new crackdown comes at the pressing of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Wisconsin, which threatened to sue the school over the team"s chaplain.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Oh, America. :')

This happens in European countries too, just with Imams.

But with a really low frequency.