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Atheists for Christ - A Challenge

Bennett91
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8/29/2014 8:14:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Howdy y'all. I'm trying to establish my own sect of Christianity called "Atheists for Christ". The beliefs of the religion are simple, follow the direct words of Christ. Forget all of the Bible except for direct quotes and actions by Jesus Christ. One does not need to accept a higher power to be a member, just simply apply the message of Christ to your daily life by spreading love, charity, harmony, humility, compassion etc etc.

And so the challenge to atheists is: Are there any direct quotes or actions from Jesus that could be considered immoral, contradictory or just plain contentious?

If so please provide these quotes/actions, my rebuttal will be to interpret these quotes and actions in a way that anyone can follow and would support a moral life style. If I can successfully show that Jesus's message is undeniably good and should be followed, could you atheists consider yourselves an "Atheist for Christ"?

Now I know Jesus does make direct reference to God/The Father, I would like to clarify in this sect God is a metaphor to generally mean something to the effect of happiness, paradise, tranquility, peace on earth. As such if we follow Jesus as a guild we will be able to reach God.
bulproof
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8/29/2014 8:21:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:14:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
Howdy y'all. I'm trying to establish my own sect of Christianity called "Atheists for Christ". The beliefs of the religion are simple, follow the direct words of Christ. Forget all of the Bible except for direct quotes and actions by Jesus Christ. One does not need to accept a higher power to be a member, just simply apply the message of Christ to your daily life by spreading love, charity, harmony, humility, compassion etc etc.

And so the challenge to atheists is: Are there any direct quotes or actions from Jesus that could be considered immoral, contradictory or just plain contentious?

If so please provide these quotes/actions, my rebuttal will be to interpret these quotes and actions in a way that anyone can follow and would support a moral life style. If I can successfully show that Jesus's message is undeniably good and should be followed, could you atheists consider yourselves an "Atheist for Christ"?

Now I know Jesus does make direct reference to God/The Father, I would like to clarify in this sect God is a metaphor to generally mean something to the effect of happiness, paradise, tranquility, peace on earth. As such if we follow Jesus as a guild we will be able to reach God.

I am unaware of anything a "christ" ever said. But thanks for the offer.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Bennett91
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8/29/2014 8:24:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:21:16 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am unaware of anything a "christ" ever said. But thanks for the offer.

Oh come now you're not even trying. The Bible is chalk full of direct quotes and actions from Jesus Christ. Just find one that you don't like and post it.
SNP1
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8/29/2014 8:39:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:14:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
Howdy y'all. I'm trying to establish my own sect of Christianity called "Atheists for Christ". The beliefs of the religion are simple, follow the direct words of Christ. Forget all of the Bible except for direct quotes and actions by Jesus Christ. One does not need to accept a higher power to be a member, just simply apply the message of Christ to your daily life by spreading love, charity, harmony, humility, compassion etc etc.

And so the challenge to atheists is: Are there any direct quotes or actions from Jesus that could be considered immoral, contradictory or just plain contentious?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26

If so please provide these quotes/actions, my rebuttal will be to interpret these quotes and actions in a way that anyone can follow and would support a moral life style. If I can successfully show that Jesus's message is undeniably good and should be followed, could you atheists consider yourselves an "Atheist for Christ"?

Now I know Jesus does make direct reference to God/The Father, I would like to clarify in this sect God is a metaphor to generally mean something to the effect of happiness, paradise, tranquility, peace on earth. As such if we follow Jesus as a guild we will be able to reach God.
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SNP1
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8/29/2014 8:40:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:24:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:21:16 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am unaware of anything a "christ" ever said. But thanks for the offer.

Oh come now you're not even trying. The Bible is chalk full of direct quotes and actions from Jesus Christ. Just find one that you don't like and post it.

No, it is not. The NT is not a historically reliable source. The authors didn't even know Jesus, if he existed, or anyone that knew him.
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bulproof
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8/29/2014 8:47:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:39:19 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:14:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
Howdy y'all. I'm trying to establish my own sect of Christianity called "Atheists for Christ". The beliefs of the religion are simple, follow the direct words of Christ. Forget all of the Bible except for direct quotes and actions by Jesus Christ. One does not need to accept a higher power to be a member, just simply apply the message of Christ to your daily life by spreading love, charity, harmony, humility, compassion etc etc.

And so the challenge to atheists is: Are there any direct quotes or actions from Jesus that could be considered immoral, contradictory or just plain contentious?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26

If so please provide these quotes/actions, my rebuttal will be to interpret these quotes and actions in a way that anyone can follow and would support a moral life style. If I can successfully show that Jesus's message is undeniably good and should be followed, could you atheists consider yourselves an "Atheist for Christ"?

Now I know Jesus does make direct reference to God/The Father, I would like to clarify in this sect God is a metaphor to generally mean something to the effect of happiness, paradise, tranquility, peace on earth. As such if we follow Jesus as a guild we will be able to reach God.

Ah you see SN that you don't understand the apologists definition of hate. It simply means LOVE. Quite simple when you change what words mean to their opposite definition. Isn't it?

Allegedly you need spirit for that and my scotch ran out 2 nights ago, so I may be wrong.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
SNP1
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8/29/2014 8:49:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:47:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:39:19 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:14:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
Howdy y'all. I'm trying to establish my own sect of Christianity called "Atheists for Christ". The beliefs of the religion are simple, follow the direct words of Christ. Forget all of the Bible except for direct quotes and actions by Jesus Christ. One does not need to accept a higher power to be a member, just simply apply the message of Christ to your daily life by spreading love, charity, harmony, humility, compassion etc etc.

And so the challenge to atheists is: Are there any direct quotes or actions from Jesus that could be considered immoral, contradictory or just plain contentious?

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26

If so please provide these quotes/actions, my rebuttal will be to interpret these quotes and actions in a way that anyone can follow and would support a moral life style. If I can successfully show that Jesus's message is undeniably good and should be followed, could you atheists consider yourselves an "Atheist for Christ"?

Now I know Jesus does make direct reference to God/The Father, I would like to clarify in this sect God is a metaphor to generally mean something to the effect of happiness, paradise, tranquility, peace on earth. As such if we follow Jesus as a guild we will be able to reach God.

Ah you see SN that you don't understand the apologists definition of hate. It simply means LOVE. Quite simple when you change what words mean to their opposite definition. Isn't it?

Allegedly you need spirit for that and my scotch ran out 2 nights ago, so I may be wrong.

How could I forget,hate means love, love means love, regret means love, genocide in the Bible is the perfect way of showing love. It is like Oprah, you get love, you get love, everyone gets love!
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Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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8/29/2014 8:53:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:40:31 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:24:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:21:16 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am unaware of anything a "christ" ever said. But thanks for the offer.

Oh come now you're not even trying. The Bible is chalk full of direct quotes and actions from Jesus Christ. Just find one that you don't like and post it.

No, it is not. The NT is not a historically reliable source. The authors didn't even know Jesus, if he existed, or anyone that knew him.

Actually, Paul knew one of Jesus' followers, St. Cephas. He even mentions that he interviewed him about Jesus.

Try again.
SNP1
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8/29/2014 8:55:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:53:52 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:40:31 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:24:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:21:16 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am unaware of anything a "christ" ever said. But thanks for the offer.

Oh come now you're not even trying. The Bible is chalk full of direct quotes and actions from Jesus Christ. Just find one that you don't like and post it.

No, it is not. The NT is not a historically reliable source. The authors didn't even know Jesus, if he existed, or anyone that knew him.

Actually, Paul knew one of Jesus' followers, St. Cephas. He even mentions that he interviewed him about Jesus.

Try again.

Which book, and quote it.
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Bennett91
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8/29/2014 9:10:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:39:19 AM, SNP1 wrote:

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26

Ah very good, I like a challenge.

The overall message of Christ is spreading peace, love, humility, charity, forgiveness etc towards thy fellow man. If one is going to follow Christ one must acknowledge that not only is this a difficult path (hate, anger and revenge being natural feelings separating us from God) it is one seldom traveled. As such if you do decide to follow Christ you must reject the un-christ-like things you see, even if they come from those you love, even if they come from yourself.

To put it in other words, if you knew a family member, someone you love, or even yourself, was doing something wrong, like killing, stealing, raping or lying for example, then as a follower of Christ you must rebuke these actions. If you do not, no matter the circumstance you can not follow Christ.

Now furthermore no one is perfect, and we have all sinned. If one is going to reject evil then one is bound to be surrounded by it. As such the goal is not to literally hate everyone else, but to dispel the sin in others by leading by example as Jesus did.

How does that sound?

You say the Bible is not a historical document, this is not necessarily important. The Bible is the only source of quotes and actions by Jesus we have. "Atheists for Christ" does not hinge on the divinity of Christ, he could be a fictional character for all it matters. What really matters is the message.

Keep it coming folks, I enjoy fleshing out this new interpretation of Christ. Although I'm going to bed now, so I'll respond later.
Wylted
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8/31/2014 2:33:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus taught a suicidal philosophy. Loving your enemy is suicide and actually destroys or makes meaningless the love you have for those more deserving. Him teaching his followers to be a door mat is also not good (turn the other cheek). He also taught his followers to reject wealth.

Adopting Jesus's philosophy in my opinion is suicidal and dumb. I have no interest in being a door mat or being poor.
LogicalLunatic
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8/31/2014 2:40:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:58:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
What is St. Cephas. an AKA for?

Peter
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LogicalLunatic
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8/31/2014 2:41:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 2:33:50 PM, Wylted wrote:
Jesus taught a suicidal philosophy. Loving your enemy is suicide and actually destroys or makes meaningless the love you have for those more deserving. Him teaching his followers to be a door mat is also not good (turn the other cheek). He also taught his followers to reject wealth.

Adopting Jesus's philosophy in my opinion is suicidal and dumb. I have no interest in being a door mat or being poor.

Well, I suppose criticizing Christianity because it's too nice is better than criticizing it because it's too mean.
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Keltron
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8/31/2014 10:12:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:14:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
Howdy y'all. I'm trying to establish my own sect of Christianity called "Atheists for Christ". The beliefs of the religion are simple, follow the direct words of Christ. Forget all of the Bible except for direct quotes and actions by Jesus Christ. One does not need to accept a higher power to be a member, just simply apply the message of Christ to your daily life by spreading love, charity, harmony, humility, compassion etc etc.

And so the challenge to atheists is: Are there any direct quotes or actions from Jesus that could be considered immoral, contradictory or just plain contentious?

If so please provide these quotes/actions, my rebuttal will be to interpret these quotes and actions in a way that anyone can follow and would support a moral life style. If I can successfully show that Jesus's message is undeniably good and should be followed, could you atheists consider yourselves an "Atheist for Christ"?

Now I know Jesus does make direct reference to God/The Father, I would like to clarify in this sect God is a metaphor to generally mean something to the effect of happiness, paradise, tranquility, peace on earth. As such if we follow Jesus as a guild we will be able to reach God.

There is a consistent theme throughout the Bible about justice and empathy for the poor and dispossessed. If you read what comes immediately after the beatitudes you find this message beautifully and cogently expressed. This "let your light so shine" exhortation really is, or should be the central message of Christianity. It's time for Christianity to abandon it's fetishistic fascination with Christ's death, and concentrate on what Jesus actually said to do.
Bennett91
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8/31/2014 10:22:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 2:33:50 PM, Wylted wrote:
Jesus taught a suicidal philosophy. Loving your enemy is suicide and actually destroys or makes meaningless the love you have for those more deserving. Him teaching his followers to be a door mat is also not good (turn the other cheek). He also taught his followers to reject wealth.

Adopting Jesus's philosophy in my opinion is suicidal and dumb. I have no interest in being a door mat or being poor.

If we all followed Jesus's door mat philosophy then none of us would be walking over each other, therefore there would be no door mats. Also even Buddhism would argue that your desire (for wealth for example) is what leads to emotional suffering. The US is a great example, we are taught to play by the rules and work hard and eventually we'll get a mansion with a hot wife. This is obviously a delusion because despite the large majority of people who do work hard only a smart minority of people ever achieve the dream.
Skepticalone
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8/31/2014 11:26:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:14:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
Howdy y'all. I'm trying to establish my own sect of Christianity called "Atheists for Christ". The beliefs of the religion are simple, follow the direct words of Christ. Forget all of the Bible except for direct quotes and actions by Jesus Christ. One does not need to accept a higher power to be a member, just simply apply the message of Christ to your daily life by spreading love, charity, harmony, humility, compassion etc etc.

And so the challenge to atheists is: Are there any direct quotes or actions from Jesus that could be considered immoral, contradictory or just plain contentious?

If so please provide these quotes/actions, my rebuttal will be to interpret these quotes and actions in a way that anyone can follow and would support a moral life style. If I can successfully show that Jesus's message is undeniably good and should be followed, could you atheists consider yourselves an "Atheist for Christ"?

Now I know Jesus does make direct reference to God/The Father, I would like to clarify in this sect God is a metaphor to generally mean something to the effect of happiness, paradise, tranquility, peace on earth. As such if we follow Jesus as a guild we will be able to reach God.

Christian atheism already exists.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

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What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Bennett91
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8/31/2014 11:28:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 11:26:46 PM, Skepticalone wrote:

Christian atheism already exists.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Oh, I didn't know that ... well then ... I guess I'm not the messiah. Good thing too, I'd hate to be assassinated.
YYW
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8/31/2014 11:32:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:14:02 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
Howdy y'all. I'm trying to establish my own sect of Christianity called "Atheists for Christ". The beliefs of the religion are simple, follow the direct words of Christ. Forget all of the Bible except for direct quotes and actions by Jesus Christ. One does not need to accept a higher power to be a member, just simply apply the message of Christ to your daily life by spreading love, charity, harmony, humility, compassion etc etc.

And so the challenge to atheists is: Are there any direct quotes or actions from Jesus that could be considered immoral, contradictory or just plain contentious?

If so please provide these quotes/actions, my rebuttal will be to interpret these quotes and actions in a way that anyone can follow and would support a moral life style. If I can successfully show that Jesus's message is undeniably good and should be followed, could you atheists consider yourselves an "Atheist for Christ"?

Now I know Jesus does make direct reference to God/The Father, I would like to clarify in this sect God is a metaphor to generally mean something to the effect of happiness, paradise, tranquility, peace on earth. As such if we follow Jesus as a guild we will be able to reach God.

In an unrelated note, Ronald Dworkin's religious atheism might be something you're interested in looking into.
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Skepticalone
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8/31/2014 11:37:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 11:28:59 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/31/2014 11:26:46 PM, Skepticalone wrote:

Christian atheism already exists.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Oh, I didn't know that ... well then ... I guess I'm not the messiah. Good thing too, I'd hate to be assassinated.

Haha, yea, that could really ruin your day. ;-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Beastt
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9/1/2014 12:35:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
We have neither the direct words of "Jesus" (not "Christ", silly), nor do we know his actions. We have stories which turn out to be fiction written by people who never knew Jesus, and reason to suspect that Jesus may never have existed.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/1/2014 12:40:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:24:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:21:16 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am unaware of anything a "christ" ever said. But thanks for the offer.

Oh come now you're not even trying. The Bible is chalk full of direct quotes and actions from Jesus Christ.

There isn't a single supposed statement from Jesus, which holds any credibility as having actually come from Jesus. And his name wasn't "Jesus Christ". That's short for "Jesus, the Christ", which separates him from other men anointed by the church.

Many of the comments which the gospels attempt to pass off as the words of Jesus are just Old Testament verses paraphrased by the author.

But if you still want to play your game, it's not hard to find fault with a man who is claimed to have taught "turn the other cheek", yet when he gets pissed, he fashions a make-shift weapon and starts chasing people around with it, yelling at them and damaging their property. I take issue with the ridiculous claim that to "love Jesus" one has to hate their family. And no one should be telling slaves to obey their masters. They should be telling the masters to free the slaves.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/1/2014 12:45:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 8:53:52 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:40:31 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:24:17 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 8:21:16 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am unaware of anything a "christ" ever said. But thanks for the offer.

Oh come now you're not even trying. The Bible is chalk full of direct quotes and actions from Jesus Christ. Just find one that you don't like and post it.

No, it is not. The NT is not a historically reliable source. The authors didn't even know Jesus, if he existed, or anyone that knew him.

Actually, Paul knew one of Jesus' followers, St. Cephas. He even mentions that he interviewed him about Jesus.

Try again.

Is that one of the books of the NT actually believed to have been written by Paul? Only six of the 13 books attributed by Paul are believed to have actually been written by him. And yet, Christians still somehow think that God influenced the selection of books in the Bible. Heck, even Anna admits that God hasn't done anything to affect the physical since 74AD, and the Bible canon wasn't finalized until 367CE (and then again in 397CE). So you'll need to be specific about which writing of Paul (one he might have actually written, or a forgery), you're speaking of.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Bennett91
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9/1/2014 1:03:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@Beastt:

I was hoping this forum would be more about analyzing the words of Jesus, not bashing Christianity. There are plenty of other forums for that. I've also stated that Jesus did not have to be real nor the Bible accurate. The message is what's up for analysis.
Beastt
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9/1/2014 1:19:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 1:03:32 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
@Beastt:

I was hoping this forum would be more about analyzing the words of Jesus, not bashing Christianity. There are plenty of other forums for that. I've also stated that Jesus did not have to be real nor the Bible accurate. The message is what's up for analysis.

Then for the sake of accuracy, you should state that you wish to analyze the Bible's depiction of Jesus. In that way you can avoid feeding the common Christian myth that the Bible contains actual words, statements, ideas or teachings of Jesus. Also, please note that I've provided an analysis of some of the failures of the teachings which the Bible attributes to Jesus. And to those I would add that it's a horribly bad idea to pay no thought for the morrow. That's more consistent with the mentality of a serious drug addict who is only concerned about their next fix, and doesn't care about anything beyond that.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Bennett91
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9/1/2014 1:55:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 1:19:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/1/2014 1:03:32 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
@Beastt:

I was hoping this forum would be more about analyzing the words of Jesus, not bashing Christianity. There are plenty of other forums for that. I've also stated that Jesus did not have to be real nor the Bible accurate. The message is what's up for analysis.

Then for the sake of accuracy, you should state that you wish to analyze the Bible's depiction of Jesus. In that way you can avoid feeding the common Christian myth that the Bible contains actual words, statements, ideas or teachings of Jesus. Also, please note that I've provided an analysis of some of the failures of the teachings which the Bible attributes to Jesus. And to those I would add that it's a horribly bad idea to pay no thought for the morrow. That's more consistent with the mentality of a serious drug addict who is only concerned about their next fix, and doesn't care about anything beyond that.

Do you mind giving a direct Bible quote with citation (book X:Y)?
Beastt
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9/1/2014 3:05:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 1:55:19 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 9/1/2014 1:19:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/1/2014 1:03:32 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
@Beastt:

I was hoping this forum would be more about analyzing the words of Jesus, not bashing Christianity. There are plenty of other forums for that. I've also stated that Jesus did not have to be real nor the Bible accurate. The message is what's up for analysis.

Then for the sake of accuracy, you should state that you wish to analyze the Bible's depiction of Jesus. In that way you can avoid feeding the common Christian myth that the Bible contains actual words, statements, ideas or teachings of Jesus. Also, please note that I've provided an analysis of some of the failures of the teachings which the Bible attributes to Jesus. And to those I would add that it's a horribly bad idea to pay no thought for the morrow. That's more consistent with the mentality of a serious drug addict who is only concerned about their next fix, and doesn't care about anything beyond that.

Do you mind giving a direct Bible quote with citation (book X:Y)?

Within the Bible's fictional presentation of Jesus, in John 2:15 he fashions a make-shift weapon, chases people around and damages their property, rather than "turning the other cheek".

The concept of not worrying about what might happen to morrow is from Matthew 6:34, "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

The claim that to love Jesus one must hate their brothers, sisters, father and mother comes from Luke 14:26, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

There are multiple New Testament verses instructing slaves to obey their masters as they would obey God, among them being, Colossians 3:22. "Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God"
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Bennett91
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9/1/2014 4:19:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 3:05:41 AM, Beastt wrote:

Within the Bible's fictional presentation of Jesus, in John 2:15 he fashions a make-shift weapon, chases people around and damages their property, rather than "turning the other cheek".

Ah yes Jesus and the money changers. One of the few times (if not the only time) Jesus used violence. First lets understand the context, these were business men in a religious temple. Had they been doing their business in a designated spot, say a market, Jesus would not have done what he did. It is clear that they (the money changers) did not respect or care about the location in which they did business, they were turning a sacred location meant for self reflection and humility into a cheap market. In general one should hesitate when mixing religion and money just as with mixing religion and government.

We must recognize people who do wrong will not always be swayed by words. The money changers had no interest in peace, charity, humility or anything other than greed. As such there may be times in which force is necessary (not deadly force, as Jesus didn't kill them, although he surly could have). If people are going to disrespect and bastardize other peoples attempt at enlightenment they can not be tolerated. To allow the money changers to stay would have been more harmful to enlightenment and peace than kicking them out.

The concept of not worrying about what might happen to morrow is from Matthew 6:34, "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

I don't think Jesus is literally talking about "tomorrow" in the sense of the next day, but of the future in general. People often worry about the future. This stress in of itself can be a barrier towards happiness and prosperity. However if you focus on the now you can truly appreciate what there is instead of worrying about and trying to control what will or won't be (the best laid plans of mice and men always go awry). To combine sayings from Bob Marley and Lil Orphan Annie: "Don't worry be happy, because tomorrow is always a day away."

The claim that to love Jesus one must hate their brothers, sisters, father and mother comes from Luke 14:26, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

This has been addressed in post #11

There are multiple New Testament verses instructing slaves to obey their masters as they would obey God, among them being, Colossians 3:22. "Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God"

I really wish you would have read the OP, I'm asking for direct quotes from Jesus. Colo 3:22 is not a quote from Jesus.

But I'll save you some time: "The servant who knows the master"s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." (Luke 12:47-48).

The word slave is not used. But the moral contention is in the use of punishment. Jesus says those who refuse their duties or are ignorant of their duties should be punished (for example the duty to obey just laws). This makes sense, people can't be allowed to break the rules w/o punishment of some sort, that would just encourage more rule breakers. The punishment itself, beating, should not be taken literally. He was speaking from the times, it's not like he could say "those who refuse should be brought up on charges for legal action." Today we punish people with the arguably crueler method of prison (which is not entirely effective given recidivism rates), and "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

You may be inclined to bring up the civil rights movement of the 60's as an example of punishment for disobeying the law. My counter is simple, it was in fact the blacks who were obeying the moral law of Jesus and resisting the immoral law of the government. Because the governments racist laws were disobeying the higher law/example set by Jesus it would be foolish to obey those laws. Like Jesus dealing with the money changers, there comes a time when words are not enough and action must be taken to secure peace.
ethang5
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9/1/2014 5:00:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 1:03:32 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
@Beastt:

I was hoping this forum would be more about analyzing the words of Jesus, not bashing Christianity.

Beastt and several others are incapable of not bashing Christianity for any length of time. Their obsession makes them see any post not overtly hostile to Christianity as an homage to Jesus. There compulsion makes them unable to stay off the topic of "Jesus no true/Christianity dumb" for more two posts.

Try it. Make a post say about whether purple eggplants are more delicious than white eggplants and within 4 posts some atheists will begin to rant about "Jesus no true/Christianity dumb".

There are plenty of other forums for that. I've also stated that Jesus did not have to be real nor the Bible accurate. The message is what's up for analysis.

Good luck.