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An atheist on trial

Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
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8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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8/29/2014 12:39:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

It is one thing not to understand atheism, it is another to pretend you do.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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8/29/2014 1:29:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 12:39:40 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

It is one thing not to understand atheism, it is another to pretend you do.

There is a WHOLE lot to understand about atheism other than the fact that you guys don't believe there is a God? What about that is so complicated that you don't think other people are capable of understanding? What part of that, as a former atheist, is simply forgotten when people stop being an atheist?

Are atheists not concerned with evidence?

Are atheists unconcerned with guilt?

Are atheists UNIVERSALLY above self interest in court cases? I mean, even if you are innocent, when the cards are staked against you, some people would choose folding rather than fighting, right?

So what about that requires ... ahem ... an understanding of atheism that is incapable of garnering if you are not atheist, and impossible to explain if you are atheist?

How may times has the appointed spokesman for atheism declared that atheism is just the disbelief in Gods? Bully boy? I have yet to see an atheist correct the statement ...

... so what part is difficult to grasp for non-atheists?
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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8/29/2014 10:11:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

Let me fix it for you:

Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Do you plead guilty or innocent?
Atheist: Innocent, your honour, my lawyers have not seen any evidence against me yet.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
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8/31/2014 9:36:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 10:11:24 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

Let me fix it for you:

Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Do you plead guilty or innocent?
Atheist: Innocent, your honour, my lawyers have not seen any evidence against me yet.

Whoops, it turns out that the trial was not over yet. As it turns out, they found overwhelming evidence that suggest you're most likely the killer. No evidence suggests that you were home, as you claim, because nobody saw you get in or out, you didn't place any calls and you didn't use the internet.

Are you still innocent?
Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
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8/31/2014 9:39:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

This was a joke, I wanted to point out that when someone knows something to be true, he doesn't need to see any evidence about it to keep believing it. Even if the judge might not be so convinced.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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8/31/2014 9:49:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 10:11:24 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

Let me fix it for you:

Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Do you plead guilty or innocent?
Atheist: Innocent, your honour, my lawyers have not seen any evidence against me yet.

Judge: You are sentenced to death. You have already been found guilty by me. This is not a jury trial. Your lawyers are guily and under death penalty the same as you. They are disqualified from representing you. Do you still plead "innocent". Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? Maybe I'll give you time to reconsider, maybe not. One thing you can be sure of, time is running out.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?

could you explain this?
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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8/31/2014 10:10:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
could you explain this?
They're trying to mock secular people for wanting evidence before they believe something by comparing God to the USCJS, which makes no sense.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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8/31/2014 10:11:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 9:49:02 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:11:24 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

Let me fix it for you:

Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Do you plead guilty or innocent?
Atheist: Innocent, your honour, my lawyers have not seen any evidence against me yet.

Judge: You are sentenced to death. You have already been found guilty by me. This is not a jury trial. Your lawyers are guily and under death penalty the same as you. They are disqualified from representing you. Do you still plead "innocent". Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? Maybe I'll give you time to reconsider, maybe not. One thing you can be sure of, time is running out.
That sounds like a pretty bad judge.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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8/31/2014 10:17:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?

could you explain this?

Judge: You have not answered the question and you are running out of time. Why should I not execute your death sentence and put you away from me forever? You have been found guilty. You are testing my patience. Answer the question please. Playing dumb will not excuse you from execution.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/31/2014 10:19:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:17:27 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?

could you explain this?

Judge: You have not answered the question and you are running out of time. Why should I not execute your death sentence and put you away from me forever? You have been found guilty. You are testing my patience. Answer the question please. Playing dumb will not excuse you from execution.
Maybe this will make communicating easier. Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Snakker De norsk?
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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8/31/2014 10:23:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:10:26 AM, Daltonian wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
could you explain this?
They're trying to mock secular people for wanting evidence before they believe something by comparing God to the USCJS, which makes no sense.

I still don't see the point/joke..

It is supposed to mock me for something I already know, yet demand prove that I saw what I saw?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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8/31/2014 10:28:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:10:26 AM, Daltonian wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
could you explain this?
They're trying to mock secular people for wanting evidence before they believe something by comparing God to the USCJS, which makes no sense.

awwwwwwww, the poor secular people are being mocked. Booo Hooooo, Boooo Hoooooo, WWaaahhhhhhhh!

"Because I (Wisdom) have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all of my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish come upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel, and despised all of my reproof.
Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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8/31/2014 10:31:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:19:50 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:17:27 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?

could you explain this?

Judge: You have not answered the question and you are running out of time. Why should I not execute your death sentence and put you away from me forever? You have been found guilty. You are testing my patience. Answer the question please. Playing dumb will not excuse you from execution.
Maybe this will make communicating easier. Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Snakker De norsk?

You are not listening. I guess you don't care that you are being executed.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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8/31/2014 10:33:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:11:07 AM, Daltonian wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:49:02 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:11:24 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

Let me fix it for you:

Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Do you plead guilty or innocent?
Atheist: Innocent, your honour, my lawyers have not seen any evidence against me yet.

Judge: You are sentenced to death. You have already been found guilty by me. This is not a jury trial. Your lawyers are guily and under death penalty the same as you. They are disqualified from representing you. Do you still plead "innocent". Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? Maybe I'll give you time to reconsider, maybe not. One thing you can be sure of, time is running out.
That sounds like a pretty bad judge.

Sounds to me like the guilty party is trying to get off the hook by squirming a lot.
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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8/31/2014 10:33:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:23:48 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:10:26 AM, Daltonian wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
could you explain this?
They're trying to mock secular people for wanting evidence before they believe something by comparing God to the USCJS, which makes no sense.

I still don't see the point/joke..

It is supposed to mock me for something I already know, yet demand prove that I saw what I saw?
It's not a really logically sound joke.

But, anyway, in the joke, the atheist says that he is not innocent because he "hasn't seen any evidence to suggest he's innocent", supposedly similar to how an atheist says he doesn't believe in any god because he "hasn't seen any evidence to suggest there's a god".

The concept fails to epic proportions. It suggests that, logically, innocence needs evidence to justify it in the same way that god does.

It comes from someone who has little to no understanding of how BOP works.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/31/2014 10:34:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:31:04 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:19:50 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:17:27 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?

could you explain this?

Judge: You have not answered the question and you are running out of time. Why should I not execute your death sentence and put you away from me forever? You have been found guilty. You are testing my patience. Answer the question please. Playing dumb will not excuse you from execution.
Maybe this will make communicating easier. Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Snakker De norsk?

You are not listening. I guess you don't care that you are being executed.

Let me make this clear. I do not understand how you were using those words and politely asked you to explain them.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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8/31/2014 10:36:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:33:15 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Sounds to me like the guilty party is trying to get off the hook by squirming a lot.
Have you ever heard of the legal concept "Innocent until proven guilty"?

You can have whatever religious beliefs you want about me, but this metaphor makes zero logical sense.

In this scenario, the atheist would never need to present any evidence to prove his innocence, the opposing party would need to prove him guilty, and the atheist would have to contest the opposing party's evidence.

There's no evidence to suggest "guilty party is guilty". Rather, if we were to think about this joke logically, it is akin to the judge plucking a random man off the street and asking him to prove his innocence, which is not at all how the justice system works. It's a basic concept.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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8/31/2014 10:44:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:34:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:31:04 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:19:50 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:17:27 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?

could you explain this?

Judge: You have not answered the question and you are running out of time. Why should I not execute your death sentence and put you away from me forever? You have been found guilty. You are testing my patience. Answer the question please. Playing dumb will not excuse you from execution.
Maybe this will make communicating easier. Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Snakker De norsk?

You are not listening. I guess you don't care that you are being executed.

Let me make this clear. I do not understand how you were using those words and politely asked you to explain them.

Judge: You are wasting the time I'm giving you with your "politeness". You are being rude to me. Why should I not now finalize the execution of your death sentence? I'm going to turn my back on you if you keep on trying to play games with me.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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8/31/2014 10:49:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:44:33 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:34:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:31:04 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:19:50 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:17:27 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?

could you explain this?

Judge: You have not answered the question and you are running out of time. Why should I not execute your death sentence and put you away from me forever? You have been found guilty. You are testing my patience. Answer the question please. Playing dumb will not excuse you from execution.
Maybe this will make communicating easier. Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Snakker De norsk?

You are not listening. I guess you don't care that you are being executed.

Let me make this clear. I do not understand how you were using those words and politely asked you to explain them.

Judge: You are wasting the time I'm giving you with your "politeness". You are being rude to me. Why should I not now finalize the execution of your death sentence? I'm going to turn my back on you if you keep on trying to play games with me.

Something just occurred to me... you're judging a Yama. Good luck judging the Judge of Death.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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8/31/2014 11:01:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 10:49:38 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:44:33 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:34:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:31:04 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:19:50 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 10:17:27 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:54:02 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/31/2014 9:52:53 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 8/29/2014 10:14:58 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

I'm being genuine when I say this. I don't understand this.

Judge: This answer will not constitute an excuse. You are found guilty, and why should I not execute your death sentence?

could you explain this?

Judge: You have not answered the question and you are running out of time. Why should I not execute your death sentence and put you away from me forever? You have been found guilty. You are testing my patience. Answer the question please. Playing dumb will not excuse you from execution.
Maybe this will make communicating easier. Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Snakker De norsk?

You are not listening. I guess you don't care that you are being executed.

Let me make this clear. I do not understand how you were using those words and politely asked you to explain them.

Judge: You are wasting the time I'm giving you with your "politeness". You are being rude to me. Why should I not now finalize the execution of your death sentence? I'm going to turn my back on you if you keep on trying to play games with me.

Something just occurred to me... you're judging a Yama. Good luck judging the Judge of Death.

Judge: You are pronounced guilty, finalization of your death sentence won't wait forever.

King James Bible
The Beginning of Knowledge

(Ezra 4:6-16; Esther 1:1-9; Proverbs 9:1-12)

1The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

4To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

6To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

The Enticement of Sin

8My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

9For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

10My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

11If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:

12Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

13We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:

14Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:

15My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:

16For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.

17Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.

18And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.

19So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.

Wisdom Calls Aloud
Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.
Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
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8/31/2014 11:41:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
WOAH, hold your horses everyone. This has gotten way out of hand.

1) I am not the same person as LifeMeansGodIsGood and the original intent of this thread has absolutely nothing to do with whatever he's been posting.
2) The purpose of this thread, although it was joke, was neither to mock nor condemn.
3) The judge is NOT a metaphor for God or anyone else for that matter. He's just a plot device.
4) This is not meant to be accurately modeled after any judicial system in this galaxy.
5) This has nothing to do with either guilt or innocence.

This is an open question about evidence for and against something. I understand that if I accuse a fellow man of committing a crime, I have to supply evidence for my claim. If evidence does appear that proves a person is guilty, in order for an impartial judge to be convinced of this person's innocence is to prove that the evidence against him is either forged or just a series of really unfortunate coincidences.

However, whether or not evidence exists which supports either end of the claim does not make an impact on what the truth actually is.

I should have elaborated more. The trial is still going on, and not all evidence has been presented, but there IS evidence against the accused (otherwise, there would be no trial). Then the judge asks the accused: is he guilty? or is he innocent? Is the actual raw truth affected by what the consensus of crime investigators (who are, after all, respectable and impartial professionals and make decisions based on evidence) have to say about it? Or who saw what and who heard what?

Of course, as an impartial bystander, their opinion would affect or shape mine. But do you need evidence to know if YOU are guilty or not? Assuming, of course, that you're not suffering from a split personality disorder and you were also not under the control of the Imperius curse.
Zylorarchy
Posts: 209
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8/31/2014 11:52:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This makes no sense in my opinion.

The fact is, for a defendant to be found guilty, there has no be overwhelming evidence which suggests that he is. I do not know what the burden of proof is in the USA, but in England it is "beyond reasonable doubt", and as the US system shares many similarities with England, I would imagine it is similar?

Either way, LifeMeansGodIsGood has no clue on how the Justice system works. Again, I do not know for certain about US judges, but in England judges would never act in such a way and I would be truly astonished if they were permitted to do so in the US.

The fact is though, the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and this does not correlate with "God is real until proven otherwise". For if you are innocent, you have done nothing. Guilty means you must have acted wrongly and so innocence cannot correlate with God existing, God would correlate with guilt.

Although in reality comparing the existence of God with the Justice system is not a good comparison, God cannot be proved to either exist, nor can he be proved not to exist.
"I am not intolerant of religion, I am intolerant of intolerance"
"True freedom is not simply left or right. It is the ability to know when a law is needed, but more importantly, know when one is not"
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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8/31/2014 12:49:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

O_O

This is why atheists think we are idiots.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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8/31/2014 1:20:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/31/2014 12:49:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:47:51 AM, Kerfluffer wrote:
Judge: What do you have to say for yourself? Are you guilty? Or are you innocent?
Atheist: I can't know yet, your honour, I still haven't seen all the evidence against me.

O_O

This is why atheists think we are idiots.

They think "we" are idiots for the same basic reasons that "we" think they are idiots - and both systems are based upon major assumptions. If you'd like to see a prime example of atheist assumptions, false logic, and distortion of facts (and in a couple of instances the complete fabrication of "facts"), just follow the threads on the mythological or historical Christ.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."