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Theistic Evolution

sherlockmethod
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3/16/2010 2:31:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yep. One does not preclude the other. The theory of evolution does preclude the idiotic belief that the world is 10,000 years old and that all lifeforms do not share a common ancestor.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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3/16/2010 2:43:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 2:14:36 PM, Immortal wrote:
Anybody here thinks that evolution and Christianity are compatible?

Yes, but you must be some dumb arse Christian to do so.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
CrappyDebater
Posts: 334
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3/16/2010 2:57:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 2:31:49 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:
Yep. One does not preclude the other. The theory of evolution does preclude the idiotic belief that the world is 10,000 years old and that all lifeforms do not share a common ancestor.

+1
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/16/2010 3:24:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I already made a topic about this called "Evolution is NOT Compatible."

http://www.debate.org...

I destroyed every notion that evolution could ever be compatible with Christianity.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/16/2010 3:32:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 3:24:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I already made a topic about this called "Evolution is NOT Compatible."

http://www.debate.org...

I destroyed every notion that evolution could ever be compatible with Christianity.

lol... No you didn't.

There are lots of believers in Holy Jesus and His father and the holy spirit and the like who Don't believe in OT stuff..

IN FACT: Catholicism now holds the OT is just something to try to glean understanding from NOT a fact based guide on what happened, or how to act.

And I'm sure there are plenty of christians who believe in the fallibility of the NT too.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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3/16/2010 3:33:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I destroyed every notion that evolution could ever be compatible with Christianity.

All while neglecting the the most congenial understanding of Genesis by those theologians who study it. You should qualify your statement by saying: "I have destroyed every notion that evolution could ever be compatible with GeoLaureate8
Christianity." Though even that statement is thoroughly wanting.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/16/2010 3:36:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ok, mattrodstrom, the BIBLE is not compatible with evolution. Sorry for leaving out the "Christians" who reject half of the Bible.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
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3/16/2010 3:40:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 3:33:55 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
I destroyed every notion that evolution could ever be compatible with Christianity.

All while neglecting the the most congenial understanding of Genesis by those theologians who study it. You should qualify your statement by saying: "I have destroyed every notion that evolution could ever be compatible with GeoLaureate8
Christianity." Though even that statement is thoroughly wanting.

Nope. Towards the end of the thread I also clarified that even with a metaphorical non-literal interpretation of the Bible it's still NOT compatible.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/16/2010 3:41:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 3:36:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ok, mattrodstrom, the BIBLE is not compatible with evolution. Sorry for leaving out the "Christians" who reject half of the Bible.

Yep...

And I'm sure Einstein would agree on This with me too :p

lol
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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3/16/2010 3:45:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Nope. Towards the end of the thread I also clarified that even with a metaphorical non-literal interpretation of the Bible it's still NOT compatible.

Okay. Give me the premises of this argument.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/16/2010 4:49:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 3:24:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I already made a topic about this called "Evolution is NOT Compatible."

http://www.debate.org...

I destroyed every notion that evolution could ever be compatible with Christianity.

Lol wut. No you didn't. You certainly didn't destroy my arguments.
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BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/16/2010 4:52:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 3:36:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ok, mattrodstrom, the BIBLE is not compatible with evolution. Sorry for leaving out the "Christians" who reject half of the Bible.

Which Christians reject half of the bible?
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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3/16/2010 5:16:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 4:52:05 PM, Immortal wrote:
At 3/16/2010 3:36:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ok, mattrodstrom, the BIBLE is not compatible with evolution. Sorry for leaving out the "Christians" who reject half of the Bible.

Which Christians reject half of the bible?

Marcionites.
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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3/16/2010 7:17:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Since when did the designated books of the Bible define God? Religious politicians put the Bible together. I do not worship a book. Some scripture was left out for various reasons, but I have no need to meld the modern theory of evolution with people who wish to worship a selective reading of an ancient text and claim their readings to be the word of God. I have little time for such arrogance.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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3/16/2010 7:58:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 3/16/2010 2:14:36 PM, Immortal wrote:
Anybody here thinks that evolution and Christianity are compatible?

When I became a Christian just short of two years ago, while I confessed my new found faith in Jesus Christ in front of my new church I also spat out evolution from my way of thinking along with the Big Bang theory and told everyone there, "Who believes in evolution, if so put you hand up, no one did." But one or two men scoffed at my comment and one walked out and went home, I was equally convicted of my false belief in evolution and the Big Bang as much as I was convicted of sin. Evolution and the Big Bang ARE both lies from where, nobody knows, just not hell of course (sarcasim).

It closes the gap between man and sin, where are Jesus Christ died and rose from the grave to close the gap between man and God, and do not even begin to say that is false! Evolution is otherwise the cause for mans wickedness or just being man. And the Big Bang closes the gap between our belief that God exists, why? Because who is to say time and action was caused? Time was not created by an action because an action uses time, and action was not created by time because an time is subject to an action. Therefore the beginning of time was in sink with action. Either that is the way the universe is, or we psychologically cannot understand the universe right now, but in our evolutionary movement we may one day? This is why the Big Bang closes the gap between the human ability to believe in God. Of course you need to use both evolution and the Big Bang in this theory for it to make sense.

So I hate evolution and it's brother the Big Bang before I love to try and try and try to disprove them with reason and logic.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/16/2010 8:22:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 7:17:23 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:
Since when did the designated books of the Bible define God? Religious politicians put the Bible together. I do not worship a book. Some scripture was left out for various reasons, but I have no need to meld the modern theory of evolution with people who wish to worship a selective reading of an ancient text and claim their readings to be the word of God. I have little time for such arrogance.

This thread is about Christianity, not the Deist God.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/16/2010 8:29:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 8:22:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/16/2010 7:17:23 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:
Since when did the designated books of the Bible define God? Religious politicians put the Bible together. I do not worship a book. Some scripture was left out for various reasons, but I have no need to meld the modern theory of evolution with people who wish to worship a selective reading of an ancient text and claim their readings to be the word of God. I have little time for such arrogance.

This thread is about Christianity, not the Deist God.

if the bible is metaphorical then anything is compatible with it. since most christians do NOT take the bible literally, and "Christianity" the religion is defined by what christians believe, i see no reason why the two would be incompatible.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/16/2010 10:51:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 4:49:55 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/16/2010 3:24:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I already made a topic about this called "Evolution is NOT Compatible."

http://www.debate.org...

I destroyed every notion that evolution could ever be compatible with Christianity.

Lol wut. No you didn't. You certainly didn't destroy my arguments.

Uh, you left my last argument unrefuted.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/16/2010 10:53:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 8:29:33 PM, belle wrote:
At 3/16/2010 8:22:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This thread is about Christianity, not the Deist God.

if the bible is metaphorical then anything is compatible with it. since most christians do NOT take the bible literally, and "Christianity" the religion is defined by what christians believe, i see no reason why the two would be incompatible.

I am a self-declared Christian and I believe that Jesus never rose from the dead, I believe Zeus was God, and Satan is a good guy. Am I Christian simply because I call myself one?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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3/16/2010 11:02:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 10:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/16/2010 8:29:33 PM, belle wrote:
At 3/16/2010 8:22:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This thread is about Christianity, not the Deist God.

Am I Christian simply because I call myself one?

It's called modern evangelicalism. >.>
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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3/16/2010 11:41:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 7:58:48 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 3/16/2010 2:14:36 PM, Immortal wrote:
Anybody here thinks that evolution and Christianity are compatible?


So I hate evolution and it's brother the Big Bang before I love to try and try and try to disprove them with reason and logic.

How strong is your hate, Godsands? I find a lot of hate among the bible-idol crowds. How much hate does this collection bring to you, Sir? The cannon was created by men, not God. Tell us now Godsands which texts were excluded from the great book written by sinful men and why these texts were excluded. The bible does not define the God that Jesus spoke of. (yes I ended a sentence in a preposition).
The Big Bang is not an anti Christian idea. Hell, Lemaitre was a Jesuit and he is the one that brought the math forward to Einstein and Hubble. For him, the BB was the point of creation. I laugh now when I see Bible-idol promoters trying to refute it. Atheists were opposed at to it! I'm still laughing.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/17/2010 6:20:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 7:58:48 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 3/16/2010 2:14:36 PM, Immortal wrote:
Anybody here thinks that evolution and Christianity are compatible?

When I became a Christian just short of two years ago, while I confessed my new found faith in Jesus Christ in front of my new church I also spat out evolution from my way of thinking along with the Big Bang theory and told everyone there, "Who believes in evolution, if so put you hand up, no one did." But one or two men scoffed at my comment and one walked out and went home, I was equally convicted of my false belief in evolution and the Big Bang as much as I was convicted of sin. Evolution and the Big Bang ARE both lies from where, nobody knows, just not hell of course (sarcasim).

It closes the gap between man and sin, where are Jesus Christ died and rose from the grave to close the gap between man and God, and do not even begin to say that is false! Evolution is otherwise the cause for mans wickedness or just being man. And the Big Bang closes the gap between our belief that God exists, why? Because who is to say time and action was caused? Time was not created by an action because an action uses time, and action was not created by time because an time is subject to an action. Therefore the beginning of time was in sink with action. Either that is the way the universe is, or we psychologically cannot understand the universe right now, but in our evolutionary movement we may one day? This is why the Big Bang closes the gap between the human ability to believe in God. Of course you need to use both evolution and the Big Bang in this theory for it to make sense.

So I hate evolution and it's brother the Big Bang before I love to try and try and try to disprove them with reason and logic.

Tell me...how are evolution and the Big Bang theory lies? They aren't even brothers. I would argue that abiogenesis and evolution are brothers. The Bible does not say how life was formed; it only stated that God did it. Religions add meaning and purpose to life but it cannot exactly explain how things are done. That's why we have science. If you can say that evolution and the Big Bang theory are lies, I could also claim that the Bible is just lies. Now we are at a stalemate. Anything you can say against science is what I can used against religion. The theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory are only called theories because they explain how those events occur. But I would like to see you disprove science with reason and logic. I can also say the same with God.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/17/2010 2:58:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Bible clearly contradicts the theory of evolution, but neither of them are necessarily disproving each other. It may be that the Bible is right, it may be that it's wrong.

The Big Bang theory is much more authentic in its evidences compared to the theory of evolution, but it also contradicts the Bible. It does not contradict the Qur'an, however, but evolution does (that humans and monkeys are from a common ancestor etc). As for Big Bang, it fits with the Qur'an, and it is also much more proven than the theory of evolution.

Now that we talk about evolution and theism, I'd like to point out that even if a theist disproves evolution, which is possible, then he'd have to prove God's existence. So not only does he have to disprove one thing, but prove another. That's why it's hard to convince Atheists of a religion. If you say God exists, and Bible is right, and he believes, then you have to disprove evolution. What if he thinks evolution is true? Then he believes in two contradictory beliefs, namely the theory of evolution and the Bible's theory about creation. That's the problem here. Atheists may disprove a religious book, and if a person is an Atheist, then the only reasonable option is to believe in the theory of evolution. That is why I don't mind Atheists believing in that theory, since they don't believe in God to begin with.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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3/17/2010 3:33:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Tell me...how are evolution and the Big Bang theory lies? They aren't even brothers. I would argue that abiogenesis and evolution are brothers. The Bible does not say how life was formed; it only stated that God did it. Religions add meaning and purpose to life but it cannot exactly explain how things are done. That's why we have science. If you can say that evolution and the Big Bang theory are lies, I could also claim that the Bible is just lies. Now we are at a stalemate. Anything you can say against science is what I can used against religion. The theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory are only called theories because they explain how those events occur. But I would like to see you disprove science with reason and logic. I can also say the same with God.

Morality (not religion) does not intend to explain how things are done but how things should be done, and science does not explain meaning but how thing are, not how things should be. Meaning shows us why things are.

Morality, science and meaning all coexist peacefully together, science is designed to be used by man, morality is to give man understanding of who they are, and meaning gives us understanding why we and things are as they are. Science just explores what meaning we can find, but says nothing, like a servent digging a hole for treasure for his master and his master decides whether or not the thing the servent has dug up is worth anying or is treasure. Meaning being the master.

I don't know why you have this far featched idea that I think science is wrong, science discovers flaws in evidences for evolution. For example, to prove that this believed missing link bone which seemed to belong to Lucy but infact wasn't a missing link at all, but a creature that is related direct to chimpanzees instead indirectly linked to humans and chimpanzees, science was used to disprove that claim which turned out to false.

There has been many lies in old biology text books such as the drawings of the human and dog embryo development. Science disproved that. Why then would I be against science? And yes God just did do it. God didn't not do it. In that I mean if God exists. Once you have that understood, then God would just do it. It is not whether of not if God did it or not, that He created science by creating the universe but whether or not if God exists to begin with. Get your neck around that, it's hard for you, but what better experience could you have besides receiving the Holy Spirit and going to heaven?
Immortal
Posts: 350
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3/17/2010 3:55:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/17/2010 3:33:04 PM, GodSands wrote:

Morality (not religion) does not intend to explain how things are done but how things should be done, and science does not explain meaning but how thing are, not how things should be. Meaning shows us why things are.

Morality are the values that tries to distinguish between right and wrong in the human society. Science is a system to acquire knowledge by the scientific method. Religion attempts to explain the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.

Morality, science and meaning all coexist peacefully together, science is designed to be used by man, morality is to give man understanding of who they are, and meaning gives us understanding why we and things are as they are. Science just explores what meaning we can find, but says nothing, like a servent digging a hole for treasure for his master and his master decides whether or not the thing the servent has dug up is worth anying or is treasure. Meaning being the master.

Science cannot be used to find meaning. Science is unrelated to morality. Science may or may not contradict religious beliefs according to the person's point of view. Morality does not give man an understanding of who they are. Religion attempts to explain that. Meaning is not the master if there is no meaning to be found.

I don't know why you have this far featched idea that I think science is wrong, science discovers flaws in evidences for evolution. For example, to prove that this believed missing link bone which seemed to belong to Lucy but infact wasn't a missing link at all, but a creature that is related direct to chimpanzees instead indirectly linked to humans and chimpanzees, science was used to disprove that claim which turned out to false.

You think science is wrong. The Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution both came from science. Even though science discovers flaws in the claimed evidence of evolution, that's because they are not really evidence for evolution. Someone just claimed that they are. Lucy is not the missing link between humans and chimpanzees, but something else is. Science is used to find the right evidence for evolution. Lucy was just a hoax.

There has been many lies in old biology text books such as the drawings of the human and dog embryo development. Science disproved that. Why then would I be against science? And yes God just did do it. God didn't not do it. In that I mean if God exists. Once you have that understood, then God would just do it. It is not whether of not if God did it or not, that He created science by creating the universe but whether or not if God exists to begin with. Get your neck around that, it's hard for you, but what better experience could you have besides receiving the Holy Spirit and going to heaven?

What lies? The old biology textbooks has science. You're still against science if you're against the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution. Current evidence founded by the scientific method supports both. You say that God just "did it". I ask "how"? Maybe God use the Big Bang and Evolution in his plan to create humans. How hard is it for him to do that?
GodSands
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3/17/2010 4:11:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
My oh my. The Big Bang and evolution are both theories, and theories are brought up by facts and facts are found by science or maths or language. Scientific facts do not specifically support evolution or the Big Bang, for example. Cats have whiskers, so do dogs. You would say that is because ancestry they are both related, but I would say they were both created by the same God and only God, Yahweh.

The Big Bang theory is a collection of events which might seem to be true, but like positives and negatives fighting it out there is always that other on look on how the universe was created or came to be. It is a theory which is build up from facts, which men have interpreted to be true, as they did not believe the Bible to begin with.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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3/18/2010 4:59:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/16/2010 10:53:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/16/2010 8:29:33 PM, belle wrote:
At 3/16/2010 8:22:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This thread is about Christianity, not the Deist God.

if the bible is metaphorical then anything is compatible with it. since most christians do NOT take the bible literally, and "Christianity" the religion is defined by what christians believe, i see no reason why the two would be incompatible.

I am a self-declared Christian and I believe that Jesus never rose from the dead, I believe Zeus was God, and Satan is a good guy. Am I Christian simply because I call myself one?

Sadly yes.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/18/2010 5:12:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/17/2010 4:11:48 PM, GodSands wrote:
My oh my. The Big Bang and evolution are both theories, and theories are brought up by facts and facts are found by science or maths or language. Scientific facts do not specifically support evolution or the Big Bang, for example. Cats have whiskers, so do dogs. You would say that is because ancestry they are both related, but I would say they were both created by the same God and only God, Yahweh.
My oh my. Not only does the evidence, genetics, for example, all support evolution, but the most important factor here, is that there is also no evidence that contradicts evolution. And until you can prove that God exists, we will look at everyting from a natural point of view. That is, from a view that there is no God.

The Big Bang theory is a collection of events which might seem to be true, but like positives and negatives fighting it out there is always that other on look on how the universe was created or came to be. It is a theory which is build up from facts, which men have interpreted to be true, as they did not believe the Bible to begin with.

Ad, again, until you prove that God exists, we will look at everything from a natural point of view. That is, from a view that there is no God.

Your reasoning fails.