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Was Jesus Worshiped in the New Testament?

ChrisL
Posts: 136
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9/4/2014 9:05:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This a section from a debate I did with Madcornishbiker 5 months ago. Alot of my opening presention went without response and as much as I tried to draw some out, my opponent did not cooperate. This argument completly slipped through the cracks so I will just post it up here and let you guys(and gals) chime in on it. Madcornishbiker, I'd love to see you respond. Thx.!

With the remainder of my space, I would like to make one more case for my position. The scriptures are clear that worship is to be given to God and God alone. Indeed, one needs to look no further then Jesus's own words in Matt 4:8(pls read). But as we read the New Testament we see that on numerous occasions Jesus receives worship.

The Greek word predominantly used to refer to worship in the NT is the word 'Proskuneo'. It is applied to Jesus in various places in the NT. However, my opponent may want to stress the fact that many other men in scripture such as David and Solomon received 'Proskuneo' as well, but they are not considered deity for it. At this point my opponent would be right. The word literally means to bow down and/or kiss the hand. When rendered to royalty or one in high position it is only an act of reverence. Nothing more. But when rendered in a religious context this word's meaning elevates to an act of worship. It's up to the interpreter of the text to determine whether the context is religious or not.

What I want to do is show two passages of scripture where Jesus receives what is only due to God. Proskuneo. I will leave it to the reader to determine whether the context is religious or not.

In Matt 14, Matthew gives us the account of Jesus walking on water. After the disciples marvel at the site, Jesus and Peter get back in the boat. Lets read what Matthew records. "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!". So after Jesus performs a miraculous act all the disciples in the boat worshiped(proskuneo)him. Is the context religious? Well I believe the last clause of this verse gives us a vital clue. As they were rendering proskuneo, they are saying to Jesus "you are certainly God's son". If that's not a religious context, I don't know what is.

And last but not least, one of the most profound text in all of scripture, Revelations 5:6-14 lets read it.

"And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, AND TO THE LAMB, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped (proskuneo). (R37;RevelationR36; R37;5R36;:R37;6-14R36;)

The context here is heavenly worship tracing back to the beginning of chapter 4. In 5:3 the dilemma is presented that no one can be found worthy to open the scroll with seven seals. In vs 5 it is stated that one worthy was found, and the description is clearly Jesus. In vs 6 Jesus is referred to as the lamb and vs 7 distinguishes him from the one who sits on the throne.

With that established take a look at vs 12. All of creation begins to sing praises to the lamb in what can only be described as worship, and notice the striking similarity between what they sing to the Lamb and what is sang to the one on the throne in 4:11.

""Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." (R37;RevelationR36; R37;4R36;:R37;11R36;)

Both receive glory, honor, and power. Yet Rev 4:10 tells us the one one the throne is receiving worship. The only way to remain consistent with the text is to regard 5:12 as worship as well.

But the real meat is in the last two verses of the chapter. In vs 13 John stresses that every creature everywhere began to sing to BOTH, the one on the throne and the lamb. And what is ascribed to them? Glory honor and power. Just like 4:11 & 5:12. And finally in verse 14, while they were singing to both the lamb and the one on the throne, the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, if Jesus is not Jehovah what is all of creation doing in Rev 5:12-14? Are they committing blasphemy in the very throne room of heaven? Or are they giving due worship to two distinct and divine persons of the Godhead? The answer is clear, but I leave it for the reader to assert.Thank you for reading.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/4/2014 9:07:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/4/2014 9:05:36 PM, ChrisL wrote:
This a section from a debate I did with Madcornishbiker 5 months ago. Alot of my opening presention went without response and as much as I tried to draw some out, my opponent did not cooperate. This argument completly slipped through the cracks so I will just post it up here and let you guys(and gals) chime in on it. Madcornishbiker, I'd love to see you respond. Thx.!

With the remainder of my space, I would like to make one more case for my position. The scriptures are clear that worship is to be given to God and God alone. Indeed, one needs to look no further then Jesus's own words in Matt 4:8(pls read). But as we read the New Testament we see that on numerous occasions Jesus receives worship.

The Greek word predominantly used to refer to worship in the NT is the word 'Proskuneo'. It is applied to Jesus in various places in the NT. However, my opponent may want to stress the fact that many other men in scripture such as David and Solomon received 'Proskuneo' as well, but they are not considered deity for it. At this point my opponent would be right. The word literally means to bow down and/or kiss the hand. When rendered to royalty or one in high position it is only an act of reverence. Nothing more. But when rendered in a religious context this word's meaning elevates to an act of worship. It's up to the interpreter of the text to determine whether the context is religious or not.

What I want to do is show two passages of scripture where Jesus receives what is only due to God. Proskuneo. I will leave it to the reader to determine whether the context is religious or not.

In Matt 14, Matthew gives us the account of Jesus walking on water. After the disciples marvel at the site, Jesus and Peter get back in the boat. Lets read what Matthew records. "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!". So after Jesus performs a miraculous act all the disciples in the boat worshiped(proskuneo)him. Is the context religious? Well I believe the last clause of this verse gives us a vital clue. As they were rendering proskuneo, they are saying to Jesus "you are certainly God's son". If that's not a religious context, I don't know what is.

And last but not least, one of the most profound text in all of scripture, Revelations 5:6-14 lets read it.

"And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, AND TO THE LAMB, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped (proskuneo). (R37;RevelationR36; R37;5R36;:R37;6-14R36;)

The context here is heavenly worship tracing back to the beginning of chapter 4. In 5:3 the dilemma is presented that no one can be found worthy to open the scroll with seven seals. In vs 5 it is stated that one worthy was found, and the description is clearly Jesus. In vs 6 Jesus is referred to as the lamb and vs 7 distinguishes him from the one who sits on the throne.

With that established take a look at vs 12. All of creation begins to sing praises to the lamb in what can only be described as worship, and notice the striking similarity between what they sing to the Lamb and what is sang to the one on the throne in 4:11.

""Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." (R37;RevelationR36; R37;4R36;:R37;11R36;)

Both receive glory, honor, and power. Yet Rev 4:10 tells us the one one the throne is receiving worship. The only way to remain consistent with the text is to regard 5:12 as worship as well.

But the real meat is in the last two verses of the chapter. In vs 13 John stresses that every creature everywhere began to sing to BOTH, the one on the throne and the lamb. And what is ascribed to them? Glory honor and power. Just like 4:11 & 5:12. And finally in verse 14, while they were singing to both the lamb and the one on the throne, the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, if Jesus is not Jehovah what is all of creation doing in Rev 5:12-14? Are they committing blasphemy in the very throne room of heaven? Or are they giving due worship to two distinct and divine persons of the Godhead? The answer is clear, but I leave it for the reader to assert.Thank you for reading.

Only God knows that antichrists produced the new testament by adding all their religious beliefs and their Jesus as being god.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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9/4/2014 9:23:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/4/2014 9:05:36 PM, ChrisL wrote:
This a section from a debate I did with Madcornishbiker 5 months ago. Alot of my opening presention went without response and as much as I tried to draw some out, my opponent did not cooperate. This argument completly slipped through the cracks so I will just post it up here and let you guys(and gals) chime in on it. Madcornishbiker, I'd love to see you respond. Thx.!

With the remainder of my space, I would like to make one more case for my position. The scriptures are clear that worship is to be given to God and God alone. Indeed, one needs to look no further then Jesus's own words in Matt 4:8(pls read). But as we read the New Testament we see that on numerous occasions Jesus receives worship.

The Greek word predominantly used to refer to worship in the NT is the word 'Proskuneo'. It is applied to Jesus in various places in the NT. However, my opponent may want to stress the fact that many other men in scripture such as David and Solomon received 'Proskuneo' as well, but they are not considered deity for it. At this point my opponent would be right. The word literally means to bow down and/or kiss the hand. When rendered to royalty or one in high position it is only an act of reverence. Nothing more. But when rendered in a religious context this word's meaning elevates to an act of worship. It's up to the interpreter of the text to determine whether the context is religious or not.

What I want to do is show two passages of scripture where Jesus receives what is only due to God. Proskuneo. I will leave it to the reader to determine whether the context is religious or not.

In Matt 14, Matthew gives us the account of Jesus walking on water. After the disciples marvel at the site, Jesus and Peter get back in the boat. Lets read what Matthew records. "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!". So after Jesus performs a miraculous act all the disciples in the boat worshiped(proskuneo)him. Is the context religious? Well I believe the last clause of this verse gives us a vital clue. As they were rendering proskuneo, they are saying to Jesus "you are certainly God's son". If that's not a religious context, I don't know what is.

And last but not least, one of the most profound text in all of scripture, Revelations 5:6-14 lets read it.

"And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, AND TO THE LAMB, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped (proskuneo). (R37;RevelationR36; R37;5R36;:R37;6-14R36;)

The context here is heavenly worship tracing back to the beginning of chapter 4. In 5:3 the dilemma is presented that no one can be found worthy to open the scroll with seven seals. In vs 5 it is stated that one worthy was found, and the description is clearly Jesus. In vs 6 Jesus is referred to as the lamb and vs 7 distinguishes him from the one who sits on the throne.

With that established take a look at vs 12. All of creation begins to sing praises to the lamb in what can only be described as worship, and notice the striking similarity between what they sing to the Lamb and what is sang to the one on the throne in 4:11.

""Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." (R37;RevelationR36; R37;4R36;:R37;11R36;)

Both receive glory, honor, and power. Yet Rev 4:10 tells us the one one the throne is receiving worship. The only way to remain consistent with the text is to regard 5:12 as worship as well.

But the real meat is in the last two verses of the chapter. In vs 13 John stresses that every creature everywhere began to sing to BOTH, the one on the throne and the lamb. And what is ascribed to them? Glory honor and power. Just like 4:11 & 5:12. And finally in verse 14, while they were singing to both the lamb and the one on the throne, the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, if Jesus is not Jehovah what is all of creation doing in Rev 5:12-14? Are they committing blasphemy in the very throne room of heaven? Or are they giving due worship to two distinct and divine persons of the Godhead? The answer is clear, but I leave it for the reader to assert.Thank you for reading.

Yes, Jesus Christ is GOD in human flesh, and he is to be worshipped as God.

When a mere mortal king receives "proskuneo" (i.e glory, honor, obeisance, etc.) he does so as a mere mortal king.

But when the King of Kings and LORD of Lords receives "proskuneo," he receives it as both GOD and King.

It's really just as simple as that.

And I'm pretty sure that's what you meant in your post.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/4/2014 11:49:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/4/2014 9:23:53 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/4/2014 9:05:36 PM, ChrisL wrote:
This a section from a debate I did with Madcornishbiker 5 months ago. Alot of my opening presention went without response and as much as I tried to draw some out, my opponent did not cooperate. This argument completly slipped through the cracks so I will just post it up here and let you guys(and gals) chime in on it. Madcornishbiker, I'd love to see you respond. Thx.!

With the remainder of my space, I would like to make one more case for my position. The scriptures are clear that worship is to be given to God and God alone. Indeed, one needs to look no further then Jesus's own words in Matt 4:8(pls read). But as we read the New Testament we see that on numerous occasions Jesus receives worship.

The Greek word predominantly used to refer to worship in the NT is the word 'Proskuneo'. It is applied to Jesus in various places in the NT. However, my opponent may want to stress the fact that many other men in scripture such as David and Solomon received 'Proskuneo' as well, but they are not considered deity for it. At this point my opponent would be right. The word literally means to bow down and/or kiss the hand. When rendered to royalty or one in high position it is only an act of reverence. Nothing more. But when rendered in a religious context this word's meaning elevates to an act of worship. It's up to the interpreter of the text to determine whether the context is religious or not.

What I want to do is show two passages of scripture where Jesus receives what is only due to God. Proskuneo. I will leave it to the reader to determine whether the context is religious or not.

In Matt 14, Matthew gives us the account of Jesus walking on water. After the disciples marvel at the site, Jesus and Peter get back in the boat. Lets read what Matthew records. "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!". So after Jesus performs a miraculous act all the disciples in the boat worshiped(proskuneo)him. Is the context religious? Well I believe the last clause of this verse gives us a vital clue. As they were rendering proskuneo, they are saying to Jesus "you are certainly God's son". If that's not a religious context, I don't know what is.

And last but not least, one of the most profound text in all of scripture, Revelations 5:6-14 lets read it.

"And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, AND TO THE LAMB, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped (proskuneo). (R37;RevelationR36; R37;5R36;:R37;6-14R36;)

The context here is heavenly worship tracing back to the beginning of chapter 4. In 5:3 the dilemma is presented that no one can be found worthy to open the scroll with seven seals. In vs 5 it is stated that one worthy was found, and the description is clearly Jesus. In vs 6 Jesus is referred to as the lamb and vs 7 distinguishes him from the one who sits on the throne.

With that established take a look at vs 12. All of creation begins to sing praises to the lamb in what can only be described as worship, and notice the striking similarity between what they sing to the Lamb and what is sang to the one on the throne in 4:11.

""Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." (R37;RevelationR36; R37;4R36;:R37;11R36;)

Both receive glory, honor, and power. Yet Rev 4:10 tells us the one one the throne is receiving worship. The only way to remain consistent with the text is to regard 5:12 as worship as well.

But the real meat is in the last two verses of the chapter. In vs 13 John stresses that every creature everywhere began to sing to BOTH, the one on the throne and the lamb. And what is ascribed to them? Glory honor and power. Just like 4:11 & 5:12. And finally in verse 14, while they were singing to both the lamb and the one on the throne, the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, if Jesus is not Jehovah what is all of creation doing in Rev 5:12-14? Are they committing blasphemy in the very throne room of heaven? Or are they giving due worship to two distinct and divine persons of the Godhead? The answer is clear, but I leave it for the reader to assert.Thank you for reading.

Yes, Jesus Christ is GOD in human flesh, and he is to be worshipped as God.

When a mere mortal king receives "proskuneo" (i.e glory, honor, obeisance, etc.) he does so as a mere mortal king.

But when the King of Kings and LORD of Lords receives "proskuneo," he receives it as both GOD and King.

It's really just as simple as that.

And I'm pretty sure that's what you meant in your post.

Human flesh is only an illusion that isn't real. What's real is our Creator and His thoughts that His illusions called saints and prophets speak.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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9/5/2014 2:26:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/4/2014 9:05:36 PM, ChrisL wrote:
This a section from a debate I did with Madcornishbiker 5 months ago. Alot of my opening presention went without response and as much as I tried to draw some out, my opponent did not cooperate. This argument completly slipped through the cracks so I will just post it up here and let you guys(and gals) chime in on it. Madcornishbiker, I'd love to see you respond. Thx.!

The reason (one of them) that he can't adequately respond is that he is instructed by his brainwashers not to read "apostate literature." That's why, if you'll notice, he frequently answers only the very last sentence of a post. He has no interest in answering your arguments, but he has a grand interest in advancing his. That's how it works.

Without reading the whole debate, I'll point out that Jesus in His earthly state, while still worthy of worship, was in subjection to the Father. Such was not the case, however, after the ascension, at which time "All power is given to Me in heaven and on earth." That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

JW's play upon the fact that while on earth Jesus of Nazareth was in subjection to the Father in heaven. Nobody denies that.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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9/5/2014 3:54:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/4/2014 9:05:36 PM, ChrisL wrote:
With the remainder of my space, I would like to make one more case for my position. The scriptures are clear that worship is to be given to God and God alone. Indeed, one needs to look no further then Jesus's own words in Matt 4:8(pls read). But as we read the New Testament we see that on numerous occasions Jesus receives worship.

Most assuredly I tell you, he who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives me, receives him who sent me."
John 13:20

The King will answer them, 'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers [The word for "brothers" here may be also correctly translated "brothers and sisters" or "siblings."], you did it to me.' " "Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.'
Matt. 25:40,45

Jesus represents God on earth. Therefore everything you do for Jesus, you do for God also. Same way as everything you do to "one of the least" you do for Jesus.

Bible seems to tell that people can represent for example Jesus and if you do something for his representative, you do it also for him. Therefore if someone "worships Jesus", it may be that he actually worships God, because Jesus is God"s representative or ambassador.

It is possible that God was served through Jesus, not Jesus.
Idealist1
Posts: 117
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9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/4/2014 9:07:58 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/4/2014 9:05:36 PM, ChrisL wrote:
This a section from a debate I did with Madcornishbiker 5 months ago. Alot of my opening presention went without response and as much as I tried to draw some out, my opponent did not cooperate. This argument completly slipped through the cracks so I will just post it up here and let you guys(and gals) chime in on it. Madcornishbiker, I'd love to see you respond. Thx.!

With the remainder of my space, I would like to make one more case for my position. The scriptures are clear that worship is to be given to God and God alone. Indeed, one needs to look no further then Jesus's own words in Matt 4:8(pls read). But as we read the New Testament we see that on numerous occasions Jesus receives worship.

The Greek word predominantly used to refer to worship in the NT is the word 'Proskuneo'. It is applied to Jesus in various places in the NT. However, my opponent may want to stress the fact that many other men in scripture such as David and Solomon received 'Proskuneo' as well, but they are not considered deity for it. At this point my opponent would be right. The word literally means to bow down and/or kiss the hand. When rendered to royalty or one in high position it is only an act of reverence. Nothing more. But when rendered in a religious context this word's meaning elevates to an act of worship. It's up to the interpreter of the text to determine whether the context is religious or not.

What I want to do is show two passages of scripture where Jesus receives what is only due to God. Proskuneo. I will leave it to the reader to determine whether the context is religious or not.

In Matt 14, Matthew gives us the account of Jesus walking on water. After the disciples marvel at the site, Jesus and Peter get back in the boat. Lets read what Matthew records. "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!". So after Jesus performs a miraculous act all the disciples in the boat worshiped(proskuneo)him. Is the context religious? Well I believe the last clause of this verse gives us a vital clue. As they were rendering proskuneo, they are saying to Jesus "you are certainly God's son". If that's not a religious context, I don't know what is.

And last but not least, one of the most profound text in all of scripture, Revelations 5:6-14 lets read it.

"And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, AND TO THE LAMB, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped (proskuneo). (R37;RevelationR36; R37;5R36;:R37;6-14R36;)

The context here is heavenly worship tracing back to the beginning of chapter 4. In 5:3 the dilemma is presented that no one can be found worthy to open the scroll with seven seals. In vs 5 it is stated that one worthy was found, and the description is clearly Jesus. In vs 6 Jesus is referred to as the lamb and vs 7 distinguishes him from the one who sits on the throne.

With that established take a look at vs 12. All of creation begins to sing praises to the lamb in what can only be described as worship, and notice the striking similarity between what they sing to the Lamb and what is sang to the one on the throne in 4:11.

""Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." (R37;RevelationR36; R37;4R36;:R37;11R36;)

Both receive glory, honor, and power. Yet Rev 4:10 tells us the one one the throne is receiving worship. The only way to remain consistent with the text is to regard 5:12 as worship as well.

But the real meat is in the last two verses of the chapter. In vs 13 John stresses that every creature everywhere began to sing to BOTH, the one on the throne and the lamb. And what is ascribed to them? Glory honor and power. Just like 4:11 & 5:12. And finally in verse 14, while they were singing to both the lamb and the one on the throne, the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, if Jesus is not Jehovah what is all of creation doing in Rev 5:12-14? Are they committing blasphemy in the very throne room of heaven? Or are they giving due worship to two distinct and divine persons of the Godhead? The answer is clear, but I leave it for the reader to assert.Thank you for reading.

Only God knows that antichrists produced the new testament by adding all their religious beliefs and their Jesus as being god.

Yeah, because they weren't falling-down drunks who God just randomly chose to be his only representative in the whole world. Hmmm . . . or maybe they were.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/4/2014 9:07:58 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/4/2014 9:05:36 PM, ChrisL wrote:
This a section from a debate I did with Madcornishbiker 5 months ago. Alot of my opening presention went without response and as much as I tried to draw some out, my opponent did not cooperate. This argument completly slipped through the cracks so I will just post it up here and let you guys(and gals) chime in on it. Madcornishbiker, I'd love to see you respond. Thx.!

With the remainder of my space, I would like to make one more case for my position. The scriptures are clear that worship is to be given to God and God alone. Indeed, one needs to look no further then Jesus's own words in Matt 4:8(pls read). But as we read the New Testament we see that on numerous occasions Jesus receives worship.

The Greek word predominantly used to refer to worship in the NT is the word 'Proskuneo'. It is applied to Jesus in various places in the NT. However, my opponent may want to stress the fact that many other men in scripture such as David and Solomon received 'Proskuneo' as well, but they are not considered deity for it. At this point my opponent would be right. The word literally means to bow down and/or kiss the hand. When rendered to royalty or one in high position it is only an act of reverence. Nothing more. But when rendered in a religious context this word's meaning elevates to an act of worship. It's up to the interpreter of the text to determine whether the context is religious or not.

What I want to do is show two passages of scripture where Jesus receives what is only due to God. Proskuneo. I will leave it to the reader to determine whether the context is religious or not.

In Matt 14, Matthew gives us the account of Jesus walking on water. After the disciples marvel at the site, Jesus and Peter get back in the boat. Lets read what Matthew records. "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!". So after Jesus performs a miraculous act all the disciples in the boat worshiped(proskuneo)him. Is the context religious? Well I believe the last clause of this verse gives us a vital clue. As they were rendering proskuneo, they are saying to Jesus "you are certainly God's son". If that's not a religious context, I don't know what is.

And last but not least, one of the most profound text in all of scripture, Revelations 5:6-14 lets read it.

"And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, AND TO THE LAMB, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped (proskuneo). (R37;RevelationR36; R37;5R36;:R37;6-14R36;)

The context here is heavenly worship tracing back to the beginning of chapter 4. In 5:3 the dilemma is presented that no one can be found worthy to open the scroll with seven seals. In vs 5 it is stated that one worthy was found, and the description is clearly Jesus. In vs 6 Jesus is referred to as the lamb and vs 7 distinguishes him from the one who sits on the throne.

With that established take a look at vs 12. All of creation begins to sing praises to the lamb in what can only be described as worship, and notice the striking similarity between what they sing to the Lamb and what is sang to the one on the throne in 4:11.

""Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." (R37;RevelationR36; R37;4R36;:R37;11R36;)

Both receive glory, honor, and power. Yet Rev 4:10 tells us the one one the throne is receiving worship. The only way to remain consistent with the text is to regard 5:12 as worship as well.

But the real meat is in the last two verses of the chapter. In vs 13 John stresses that every creature everywhere began to sing to BOTH, the one on the throne and the lamb. And what is ascribed to them? Glory honor and power. Just like 4:11 & 5:12. And finally in verse 14, while they were singing to both the lamb and the one on the throne, the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, if Jesus is not Jehovah what is all of creation doing in Rev 5:12-14? Are they committing blasphemy in the very throne room of heaven? Or are they giving due worship to two distinct and divine persons of the Godhead? The answer is clear, but I leave it for the reader to assert.Thank you for reading.

Only God knows that antichrists produced the new testament by adding all their religious beliefs and their Jesus as being god.

Yeah, because they weren't falling-down drunks who God just randomly chose to be his only representative in the whole world. Hmmm . . . or maybe they were.

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.
Idealist1
Posts: 117
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9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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9/7/2014 3:34:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

XD
Never fart near dog
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/7/2014 6:45:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You're not a very good listener if this is all you got out of the videos.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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9/7/2014 7:08:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.

Yeah, and you and a good psychiatrist should get together, and you can swap your stories. Then he can make the diagnosis (which we all already know), and he can decide which institution is best for you.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/7/2014 7:13:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 7:08:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.

Yeah, and you and a good psychiatrist should get together, and you can swap your stories. Then he can make the diagnosis (which we all already know), and he can decide which institution is best for you.

I have no mental illness, Anna. Every psychiatrist in the nation would find me as mentally stable. It's possible you might have to see a psychiatrist once my body is killed in January.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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9/7/2014 7:53:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 7:13:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:08:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.

Yeah, and you and a good psychiatrist should get together, and you can swap your stories. Then he can make the diagnosis (which we all already know), and he can decide which institution is best for you.

I have no mental illness, Anna. Every psychiatrist in the nation would find me as mentally stable. It's possible you might have to see a psychiatrist once my body is killed in January.

Every crazy person says, "I am mentally stable."

Want us to take a vote on the subject here? I guarantee you that not one person will say that you are mentally stable.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/7/2014 8:17:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 7:53:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:13:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:08:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.

Yeah, and you and a good psychiatrist should get together, and you can swap your stories. Then he can make the diagnosis (which we all already know), and he can decide which institution is best for you.

I have no mental illness, Anna. Every psychiatrist in the nation would find me as mentally stable. It's possible you might have to see a psychiatrist once my body is killed in January.

Every crazy person says, "I am mentally stable."

Want us to take a vote on the subject here? I guarantee you that not one person will say that you are mentally stable.

That's because NONE of the members in here are psychiatrists. You're only unbelievers who can't hear the voice of the Lord in this forum.
ChrisL
Posts: 136
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9/7/2014 8:24:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 8:17:04 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:53:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:13:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:08:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.

Yeah, and you and a good psychiatrist should get together, and you can swap your stories. Then he can make the diagnosis (which we all already know), and he can decide which institution is best for you.

I have no mental illness, Anna. Every psychiatrist in the nation would find me as mentally stable. It's possible you might have to see a psychiatrist once my body is killed in January.

Every crazy person says, "I am mentally stable."

Want us to take a vote on the subject here? I guarantee you that not one person will say that you are mentally stable.

That's because NONE of the members in here are psychiatrists. You're only unbelievers who can't hear the voice of the Lord in this forum.

This is Insain. Pls stop. You are storing up wrath for yourself my friend. Falsely speaking on behalf of God is a serious sin. Repent and pls quit posting crazy stuff. This is not funny.
Idealist1
Posts: 117
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9/7/2014 9:27:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

I must have overlooked that one. :P
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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9/7/2014 9:28:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 9:27:03 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

I must have overlooked that one. :P

God's timing was pretty good, though. He only did it after he split up with the little senorita in Spain.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,289
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9/8/2014 2:16:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 8:24:11 PM, ChrisL wrote:

This is Insain. Pls stop. You are storing up wrath for yourself my friend. Falsely speaking on behalf of God is a serious sin. Repent and pls quit posting crazy stuff. This is not funny.

It's hilarious, what are you talking about?
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/8/2014 3:36:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

Because prior to the sexual revolution, sex was a highly unsafe practice. It could, and often did, result in unwanted pregnancy, which was itself often life threatening, (not too mention exposure to VD), it opened the door to adultery which was terribly grievous, its exploitive, reducing another human being to an object of lust rather than a human being to be served and afforded respect, and marriage was the most stable institution for relationships demonstrating an understanding and appreciation for commitment (ability to keep our word) and fidelity (the ability to remain true to our principles).

That modern society has made this safer does not mean allowing sex to conquer your will is a good thing brother. It no better than allowing alcohol, drugs, money, or power to over power your will and corrupt your ethics.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/8/2014 3:51:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 8:17:04 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:53:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:13:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:08:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.

Yeah, and you and a good psychiatrist should get together, and you can swap your stories. Then he can make the diagnosis (which we all already know), and he can decide which institution is best for you.

I have no mental illness, Anna. Every psychiatrist in the nation would find me as mentally stable. It's possible you might have to see a psychiatrist once my body is killed in January.

Every crazy person says, "I am mentally stable."

Want us to take a vote on the subject here? I guarantee you that not one person will say that you are mentally stable.

That's because NONE of the members in here are psychiatrists. You're only unbelievers who can't hear the voice of the Lord in this forum.

I think this may be one of bully boys alter egos ... I suspect he's simply trolling.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/8/2014 1:30:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 8:24:11 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 9/7/2014 8:17:04 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:53:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:13:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:08:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.

Yeah, and you and a good psychiatrist should get together, and you can swap your stories. Then he can make the diagnosis (which we all already know), and he can decide which institution is best for you.

I have no mental illness, Anna. Every psychiatrist in the nation would find me as mentally stable. It's possible you might have to see a psychiatrist once my body is killed in January.

Every crazy person says, "I am mentally stable."

Want us to take a vote on the subject here? I guarantee you that not one person will say that you are mentally stable.

That's because NONE of the members in here are psychiatrists. You're only unbelievers who can't hear the voice of the Lord in this forum.

This is Insain. Pls stop. You are storing up wrath for yourself my friend. Falsely speaking on behalf of God is a serious sin. Repent and pls quit posting crazy stuff. This is not funny.

What's funny is how God was able to keep most of His people from knowing Him by making them believe religion can show you the way to the Truth.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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9/8/2014 1:32:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 3:51:17 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/7/2014 8:17:04 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:53:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:13:00 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/7/2014 7:08:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 6:50:11 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

You and Richard should get together and share your thoughts together to keep yourself from knowing who you are in God.

Yeah, and you and a good psychiatrist should get together, and you can swap your stories. Then he can make the diagnosis (which we all already know), and he can decide which institution is best for you.

I have no mental illness, Anna. Every psychiatrist in the nation would find me as mentally stable. It's possible you might have to see a psychiatrist once my body is killed in January.

Every crazy person says, "I am mentally stable."

Want us to take a vote on the subject here? I guarantee you that not one person will say that you are mentally stable.

That's because NONE of the members in here are psychiatrists. You're only unbelievers who can't hear the voice of the Lord in this forum.

I think this may be one of bully boys alter egos ... I suspect he's simply trolling.

I've been in this forum for over a year sharing the same exact message ( The Truth ) that I started with. Trolls don't share anything but discourse to taunt people.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/8/2014 2:54:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 1:32:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:

I've been in this forum for over a year sharing the same exact message ( The Truth ) that I started with. Trolls don't share anything but discourse to taunt people.

Oh, that you are troll boy are one in the same? Or just cousins?
Idealist1
Posts: 117
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9/8/2014 6:41:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 9:28:19 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 9:27:03 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

I must have overlooked that one. :P

God's timing was pretty good, though. He only did it after he split up with the little senorita in Spain.

Yeah, he gave me a lecture about how God's saints are required to be celibate, and he's already told me about the woman from Spain. I was wondering how that had all worked out.
Idealist1
Posts: 117
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9/8/2014 7:01:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 3:36:34 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

Because prior to the sexual revolution, sex was a highly unsafe practice. It could, and often did, result in unwanted pregnancy, which was itself often life threatening, (not too mention exposure to VD), it opened the door to adultery which was terribly grievous, its exploitive, reducing another human being to an object of lust rather than a human being to be served and afforded respect, and marriage was the most stable institution for relationships demonstrating an understanding and appreciation for commitment (ability to keep our word) and fidelity (the ability to remain true to our principles).

That modern society has made this safer does not mean allowing sex to conquer your will is a good thing brother. It no better than allowing alcohol, drugs, money, or power to over power your will and corrupt your ethics.

??? - You must have meant to answer to another post? These are two totally different subjects here.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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9/8/2014 7:28:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 6:41:50 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/7/2014 9:28:19 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/7/2014 9:27:03 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 7:49:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/6/2014 6:54:16 PM, Idealist1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:36:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 9/5/2014 4:42:38 PM, Idealist1 wrote:

We saints don't use the word "maybe". That's because we speak for our Creator who knows.

I did another internet search on you the other day. It seems you have three videos on YouTube dating from two years ago to the present. Two of them have no comments at all while the last one had the following comments:

1. I don't have a guitar anymore. God took it away.

2. Textbook mental illness.

3. There are so many mistakes in the Bible. For example why would it condemn sexuality it has now been proven that sexuality is not a mental illness and common among animals.

A lot of followers you have there.

You forgot that God knocked him to the floor and castrated him.

I must have overlooked that one. :P

God's timing was pretty good, though. He only did it after he split up with the little senorita in Spain.

Yeah, he gave me a lecture about how God's saints are required to be celibate, and he's already told me about the woman from Spain. I was wondering how that had all worked out.

I have a feeling that disinterest on the part of the senorita has a lot more to do with it than intervention by God.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."