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History's Missing Jesus

Beastt
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9/5/2014 5:16:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Going through the gospels it's interesting to note the near Earth-shattering events involving the life of Jesus, which are completely vacant from the historical record. And it should be noted that the first century is considered to be one of the best-documented periods in ancient history. There were a plethora of writers, both Roman and Jewish who demonstrated great interest and had much to say about the things going on in the "time of Jesus". And yet, the gospels present many note-worthy events which are simply vacant from the historical record.

- Caesar taxed the world (Luke 2:1-4)

- The Slaughter of the Innocents (Not even mentioned in the list of Herod's wrongs by Josephus)

- The Famous Ministry of Jesus

- Jesus' Triumphant Entry into Jerusalem - the whole town turns out (Contrary in "Mark" to the claims in "John")

- The Trial(s) of Jesus (Just days after triumphantly entering the city)
- - Questioned by the Jewish Sanhedrin High Court
- - Questioned by Annas (The father-in-law of the High Priest)
- - Questioned by the High Priest himself
- - Questioned by Pontius Pilate
- - Questioned by King Herod Antipas
- - Questioned again by Pontius Pilate
- - So we have a dramatic arrest followed by an illegal trial at night, and a gripping finale played out before the multitudes of Jerusalem...
... but not a word of it in any historical document.

- The Crucifixion... or "crucifixions"
- - The anguished miserable Jesus in "Mark"
- - Punctuated by amazing and dramatic special effects in "Matthew"
- - Serene and tranquil in "Luke"
- - Jesus bold and taking charge in "John"

- All of Jesus' Miracles

- The Astounding Resurrection

With all of these Earth-changing, dramatic and astounding events... we end up with 5 historians, who mention (mostly in passing), that they heard of Jesus. None ever saw him. None ever mentioned him in the time these events were supposed to have taken place, none ever seem to have met anyone who knew him or witnessed these events. Even historians who focused on politics and religion and wrote prolifically and in great detail - sometimes of the highly mundane - never mention Jesus.

[Fitzgerald, David (2010-09-30). Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All (Kindle Location 359). Lulu. Kindle Edition.]
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!

I am sure this randomly ripped off plagiarism will go different though - seriously, its all academics.

YEAH ATHEISM!!!
Beastt
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9/5/2014 5:52:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM, neutral wrote:
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.
Oh look here. These threads are all "from" me and I'm the only one involved! Except of course, that they're not all from me (I believe this is the only one I started), and I'm certainly not the only one involved. In fact, I believe I've seen you posting in each and every one of them; isn't that correct? Yet somehow, it's menacing and malevolent behavior for anyone else to comment in all of them?

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!
What makes you think we haven't won in all of them? You still haven't presented the minimum of credible evidence for a historical Jesus. Sorry Bud, but that's a win for mythicism.

I am sure this randomly ripped off plagiarism will go different though - seriously, its all academics.
Plagiarism is when you copy someone else's work, and present it as your own, giving them no credit. Did you read the last line? I even applied a bold style to the text. You project the hatred, anger and confusion of a man of miniscule capacity, who is watching his entire view of reality crumble.

YEAH ATHEISM!!!
Yeah Christian Stupidity at it's finest!
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/5/2014 5:54:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:46:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
Warning: the above is a content-free zone.

Quite... except for the claim of plagiarism where the credit is quite clearly listed. That's false content, but it's often the best he can do.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
neutral
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9/5/2014 5:55:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:46:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
Warning: the above is a content-free zone.

Plenty of content though.

Let's pretend we don;t notice this though ... again ...

http://www.debate.org...

So once again, SOMEONE does it to atheists ... once, and atheists come off their high mountain and denounce it as trolling.

Someone rips of Earl Doherty:

http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net...

And even though this non-professional scholarship has been thoroughly trashed:

http://www.preventingtruthdecay.org...

And even though we've done this, and shown this particular poster the evidence a thousand times already, its NOT trolling when done to religious people 7 times in two weeks - by the SAME posters no less - the SAME posters who are clearly ripping off and plagiarizing debunked claims from the internet.

No ... when atheists do this - its scholarship.

When its done to atheists? Its trolling.

Gotcha.

thanks for clarifying dee.
neutral
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9/5/2014 5:57:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:52:52 AM, Beastt wrote:
Yeah Christian Stupidity at it's finest!

Yep, that is the scholarship of the Christ Myth.

And we Christians need to be exposed to the abuse in defense of our faith constantly.

It only trolling when when Christians dismiss obvious trolling as, "Atheist Stupidity at its FINEST!"

That would be an insult, of course, but, "Christian stupidity at its finest," is rock solid, logical, academia. Right.
Beastt
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9/5/2014 6:11:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:55:49 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 5:46:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
Warning: the above is a content-free zone.

Plenty of content though.
Did you have any comment you'd like to make in regard to the information in the OP?

Let's pretend we don;t notice this though ... again ...
Like when you pretend not to notice credit and proceed to label a fully credited presentation as "plagiarism"?

http://www.debate.org...

So once again, SOMEONE does it to atheists ... once, and atheists come off their high mountain and denounce it as trolling.
I don't believe anyone even mentioned trolling here... except for you.

Someone rips of Earl Doherty:

http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net...
Do you ever quote the Bible without listing the chapter and verse... or even that the words came from the Bible?

And even though this non-professional scholarship has been thoroughly trashed:
http://www.preventingtruthdecay.org...
More ignorant defaults. If you pay an accredited school the required amount of money, complete the work they assign to you, and manage to graduate, then you can know that 2+2=4. If you simply set two sets of two pennies each on a table and count them, you're not presenting a professional opinion, and will therefore be discredited.
Do you know what Einstein's profession was during his most prolific year in regard to physics discovery?
Hush, Neutral. The problem with not being able to even peer outside the box is that it's so dark inside the box, that you can't see anything. People can attain great levels of knowledge yet not have a diploma, a degree or a letter of intent from any formal training organization.

Likewise - as I can attest to from 30+ years working for a law enforcement agency - you can send an idiot to training (many times, in fact), and all you get back is a trained idiot. But you prefer the trained idiot who can't support his conclusions, to the highly intelligent self-educated genius who fully supports his conclusions.

And even though we've done this, and shown this particular poster the evidence a thousand times already, its NOT trolling when done to religious people 7 times in two weeks - by the SAME posters no less - the SAME posters who are clearly ripping off and plagiarizing debunked claims from the internet.

No ... when atheists do this - its scholarship.
It's valid information, Neutral. And if you didn't already know that, you'd be challenging it, instead of foaming at the mouth.

When its done to atheists? Its trolling.

Gotcha.

thanks for clarifying dee.
Once again; would you care to comment on the information in the O.P., or are you just here to spread spittle?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/5/2014 6:13:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:57:48 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 5:52:52 AM, Beastt wrote:
Yeah Christian Stupidity at it's finest!

Yep, that is the scholarship of the Christ Myth.

And we Christians need to be exposed to the abuse in defense of our faith constantly.
When you admit that it's faith, you expose your stupidity.

It only trolling when when Christians dismiss obvious trolling as, "Atheist Stupidity at its FINEST!"
Nice plagiarism.

That would be an insult, of course, but, "Christian stupidity at its finest," is rock solid, logical, academia. Right.
Then go ahead and refute the information in the O.P... if you can.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/5/2014 6:24:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
TIMELINE REFERENCES TO JESUS

8BCE - 4BCE Birth of Jesus (Matthew)

6CE - Birth of Jesus (Luke)

30-33CE - Death of Jesus
34 CE
35 CE
36 CE
37 CE
38 CE
39 CE
40 CE
41 CE
42 CE
43 CE
44 CE
45 CE
46 CE
47 CE
48 CE
49 CE
50 CE
51 CE
52 CE
53 CE
54 CE
55 CE
56 CE
57 CE
58 CE
59 CE
60 CE
61 CE
62 CE
63 CE
64 CE
65 CE
66 CE
67 CE
68 CE
69 CE
70 CE
71 CE
72 CE
73 CE
74 CE
75 CE
76 CE
77 CE
78 CE
79 CE
80 CE
81 CE
82 CE
83 CE
84 CE
85 CE
86 CE
87 CE
88 CE
89 CE
90 CE
91 CE
92 CE
93 CE
94 CE - Josephus
95 CE - Clement of Rome
100 CE - Ignatius
112 CE - Pliny the Younger
............ - Suetonius
117CE - Tacitus
135CE - Polycarp
150CE - Justin Martyr
170CE - Lucian of Samosata
175CE - Clement of Alexandria
200CE - Tertulian

...
Some may notice a slight gap.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/5/2014 6:46:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
More historians who don't seem to believe Jesus existed, or at least, never heard of him.

Epictetus

Pomponius Mela

Martial

Juvenal

Seneca the Younger

Gallio

Seneca the Elder

Pliny the Elder

Plutarch

Justus of Tiberias

Philo of Alexandria

Nicolaus of Damascus

Fitzgerald, David (2010-09-30). Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All (Kindle Locations 411-412). Lulu. Kindle Edition.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
neutral
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9/5/2014 6:58:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 6:24:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
TIMELINE REFERENCES TO JESUS

8BCE - 4BCE Birth of Jesus (Matthew)

6CE - Birth of Jesus (Luke)

30-33CE - Death of Jesus
34 CE
35 CE
36 CE
37 CE
38 CE
39 CE
40 CE
41 CE
42 CE
43 CE
44 CE
45 CE
46 CE
47 CE
48 CE
49 CE
50 CE
51 CE
52 CE
53 CE
54 CE
55 CE
56 CE
57 CE
58 CE
59 CE
60 CE
61 CE
62 CE
63 CE
64 CE
65 CE
66 CE
67 CE
68 CE
69 CE
70 CE
71 CE
72 CE
73 CE
74 CE
75 CE
76 CE
77 CE
78 CE
79 CE
80 CE
81 CE
82 CE
83 CE
84 CE
85 CE
86 CE
87 CE
88 CE
89 CE
90 CE
91 CE
92 CE
93 CE
94 CE - Josephus
95 CE - Clement of Rome
100 CE - Ignatius
112 CE - Pliny the Younger
............ - Suetonius
117CE - Tacitus
135CE - Polycarp
150CE - Justin Martyr
170CE - Lucian of Samosata
175CE - Clement of Alexandria
200CE - Tertulian

...
Some may notice a slight gap.

Browse by range of dating or by category, New Testament " Apocrypha " Gnostics " Church Fathers " Other, or use the search box.

30-60

Passion Narrative
40-80

Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60

1 Thessalonians
50-60

Philippians
50-60

Galatians
50-60

1 Corinthians
50-60

2 Corinthians
50-60

Romans
50-60

Philemon
50-80

Colossians
50-90

Signs Gospel
50-95

Book of Hebrews

50-120

Didache
50-140

Gospel of Thomas
50-140

Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-150

Apocalypse of Adam
50-150

Eugnostos the Blessed
50-200

Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80

Gospel of Mark
70-100

Epistle of James
70-120

Egerton Gospel
70-160

Gospel of Peter
70-160

Secret Mark
70-200

Fayyum Fragment
70-200

Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200

Mara Bar Serapion
80-100

2 Thessalonians
80-100

Ephesians
80-100

Gospel of Matthew
80-110

1 Peter

80-120

Epistle of Barnabas

80-130

Gospel of Luke

80-130

Acts of the Apostles

80-140

1 Clement

80-150

Gospel of the Egyptians

80-150

Gospel of the Hebrews

80-250

Christian Sibyllines

90-95

Revelation

90-120

Gospel of John

90-120

1 John

90-120

2 John

90-120

3 John

90-120

Epistle of Jude

93

Flavius Josephus

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...

Please not both the inaccuracy, and the fact that this poster has been exposed to this information in many forms, many times, and still insists on lying about it.

But is ONLY trolling when Christians do this atheists. THIS kind of deliberate dishonesty, aimed squarely at other people's faith, should be tolerated indefinitely as legitimate academics or just skepticism?

Pathetic.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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9/5/2014 7:41:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm fairly sure Beastt was documenting the historical record (you know, historians) and not the creative writing record (you know, zealots). Lol.
neutral
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9/5/2014 8:19:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 7:41:08 AM, dee-em wrote:
I'm fairly sure Beastt was documenting the historical record (you know, historians) and not the creative writing record (you know, zealots). Lol.

You'd be wrong. As already pointed out. WITH citation.

Not that angry nihilistic zealots with anger mangament issues bother reading these before making accusations about other who have at least read the scholarship ... who know so we don;t make comically dysfunctional errors like not even reading Wikipedia and copying the link summary, incorrectly, to state that a term means slaves rather than was used by slaves ...

But really, your authority on this troll issue is soldi enough to accuse historians of zealotry ... not atheists and Satantsist though - they are all automatically super Ph.D's.

Megolomania.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/5/2014 9:05:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 8:19:45 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 7:41:08 AM, dee-em wrote:
I'm fairly sure Beastt was documenting the historical record (you know, historians) and not the creative writing record (you know, zealots). Lol.

You'd be wrong. As already pointed out. WITH citation.

Not that angry nihilistic zealots with anger mangament issues bother reading these before making accusations about other who have at least read the scholarship ... who know so we don;t make comically dysfunctional errors like not even reading Wikipedia and copying the link summary, incorrectly, to state that a term means slaves rather than was used by slaves ...

But really, your authority on this troll issue is soldi enough to accuse historians of zealotry ... not atheists and Satantsist though - they are all automatically super Ph.D's.

Megolomania.

No Neutral, dee-em was absolutely correct and you were - once again - completely wrong.

Don't sit here whining about a lack of professional credentials among Jesus mythicists (which most of them absolutely DO have), and then present a series of writings, mostly by unknowns, without any credentials, and with no apparent motivation or research behind their writing aside from their distinct Christian bias. You might as well list Casper the Friendly Ghost and Stretch as examples of the paranormal.

At least we know who is writing the research documentation on Jesus mythicism. And in many cases, their credentials are just as impressive as any you can present for the Jesus historicists.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/5/2014 9:16:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 6:58:02 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 6:24:09 AM, Beastt wrote:

Browse by range of dating or by category, New Testament " Apocrypha " Gnostics " Church Fathers " Other, or use the search box.

30-60

Passion Narrative
40-80

Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60

1 Thessalonians
50-60

Philippians
50-60

Galatians
50-60

1 Corinthians
50-60

2 Corinthians
50-60

Romans
50-60

Philemon
50-80

Colossians
50-90

Signs Gospel
50-95

Book of Hebrews

50-120

Didache
50-140

Gospel of Thomas
50-140

Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-150

Apocalypse of Adam
50-150

Eugnostos the Blessed
50-200

Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80

Gospel of Mark
70-100

Epistle of James
70-120

Egerton Gospel
70-160

Gospel of Peter
70-160

Secret Mark
70-200

Fayyum Fragment
70-200

Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200

Mara Bar Serapion
80-100

2 Thessalonians
80-100

Ephesians
80-100

Gospel of Matthew
80-110

1 Peter

80-120

Epistle of Barnabas

80-130

Gospel of Luke

80-130

Acts of the Apostles

80-140

1 Clement

80-150

Gospel of the Egyptians

80-150

Gospel of the Hebrews

80-250

Christian Sibyllines

90-95

Revelation

90-120

Gospel of John

90-120

1 John

90-120

2 John

90-120

3 John

90-120

Epistle of Jude

93

Flavius Josephus

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...

Please not both the inaccuracy, and the fact that this poster has been exposed to this information in many forms, many times, and still insists on lying about it.

But is ONLY trolling when Christians do this atheists. THIS kind of deliberate dishonesty, aimed squarely at other people's faith, should be tolerated indefinitely as legitimate academics or just skepticism?

Pathetic.

ROFL!! Oh my gosh! Take a look at the credibility here!
Yeah, sometime between 50 and 200CE... sometime between 80 and 250CE, someone - we don't know who - somewhere in that century and a half... sometime in that 17-decades - likely, with no credentials and, who witnessed none of what they presented, wrote out some stuff which is unsupported anywhere in the historical record, therefore what they wrote is historically accurate.

Thank you, Neutral. You make my job so much easier for me.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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9/5/2014 9:40:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sometimes it is hard to believe you are serious beast. I'm going to try to not let my incredulity cause me to think you are being disingenuous. So here goes.

Beastt wrote:

Going through the gospels it's interesting to note the near Earth-shattering events involving the life of Jesus, which are completely vacant from the historical record.

The implication here of course is that it should be in the historical record. On what logic does he base that claim? Why should we assume this is a reasonable expectation? Consider....

In the 1st century,
1. The fastest form of international transportation averaged 4 miles an hour at the most. Reports of something happening a mere 128 miles away would take one week to arrive even if the report traveled at top speed the entire 7 days! No man or horse could do that. Yet, the chronologically challenged atheists, stuck in his time-frame, cannot, (or more likely will not) factor this in.

2. What the confused atheist cannot understand, is that many events he considers a miraculous happening today, with his current knowledge of science, would not have caused as much consternation back then. But while cursing the men of that time for being ignorant goat herders, he will also assume that they should have reacted to events the way people today do, and if they didn't will scream that the story rings untrue.

3. Most American atheists, having never lived in, or been exposed to primitive cultures, cannot understand the dynamics within those cultures and assume that societal morays and reactions to be the same as today, and if they didn't will scream that the story rings untrue. In the first century, virtually all men who could read and write, and there were very, very, few of them, were employees of the King. They were not free to record whatever they wanted.

4. People were often afraid to talk, and it was not easy to go around interviewing for a story. Most people were quite unaware of events that happened around them because their existence was focused on eeking out a living. They didn't have the World News Tonight when they got home in the evenings. There was no "Good Morning Israel" when they woke. But the confused atheist today, with the idea in his mind of the international journalist, cannot understand why the story wasn't spread across the banner of the Stone Age Herald.

And it should be noted that the first century is considered to be one of the best-documented periods in ancient history. There were a plethora of writers, both Roman and Jewish who demonstrated great interest and had much to say about the things going on in the "time of Jesus". And yet, the gospels present many note-worthy events which are simply vacant from the historical record.

So we see that the charge here is simply that beastt thinks those events should have been mentioned. First, it won't occur to him that they WERE mentioned. Of course he will say, it was mentioned only in the Bible. But that is a stupid as joining all historical records into one volume called US History, and then claiming that the historical actuality of the US war with England for example is doubtful because it was mentioned only in one book. Otherwise smart atheists do this and fail to see how stupid that is.

Second, he says that, "the first century is considered to be one of the best-documented periods in ancient history. Yet will not wonder why the 1st century would be more documented than a later century that had better literacy and technology. One of the main reasons why the 1st century is considered better documented is because of the NT. It has been a wealth to historians.

He will tell you about what was mentioned in the Bible that has not been mentioned in other tomes, but will not tell you about what was unknown in the world until the Bible exposed it. We have found whole cities that had been lost in antiquity , with no mention by any historian except those in the Bible. Wonder how those got by the 6 O'clock ancient news?

Caesar taxed the world (Luke 2:1-4)
JFK's noteworthy affairs were never mentioned in any mainstream official record of the time. Perhaps Marylyn Monroe was just a babysitter for John-John?

The Slaughter of the Innocents (Not even mentioned in the list of Herod's wrongs by Josephus)
An American president hid his inability to walk from an entire nation for years. And this in a century where we had TV, radio, international journalism, and instant news.

The Famous Ministry of Jesus

Check Uganda during the time of Idi Amin and see how many official Ugandan historical reports there are about the presidents opponents. Jesus was accused of sedition against Caesar. The 1st century is not just the same society as today but only at a different time! Buy a clue if it will help.

Jesus' Triumphant Entry into Jerusalem - the whole town turns out (Contrary in "Mark" to the claims in "John")

The CNN 24 hour news trucks must have been caught in the crush of people going to see it.

The Trial(s) of Jesus (Just days after triumphantly entering the city)

Jesus was considered a 2 bit member of a group (Jews) who were pretty much slaves of the Romans. The only scribes at the time either worked for Caesar, (and the case of Jesus in their eyes would not have risen to a level of national significance. They sentenced criminals to death all the time. There would have been nothing special about Jesus to them at the time.) or worked for the Jewish Temple, and those scribes would not have mentioned Jesus at all. The Pharisees wanted everything about Jesus erased off the books.

Questioned by the Jewish Sanhedrin High Court
Questioned by Annas (The father-in-law of the High Priest)
Questioned by the High Priest himself
Questioned by Pontius Pilate
Questioned by King Herod Antipas
Questioned again by Pontius Pilate
So we have a dramatic arrest followed by an illegal trial at night, and a gripping finale played out before the multitudes of Jerusalem...

I guess to the international reporters camped outside Herod's palace, it wasn't "gripping" enough. beastt thinks because it is "gripping" now to those who can see it in the light of historical significance, it MUST have been "gripping" then too. And because it wasn't, he will scream that the story rings untrue. It's either poor thinking, or, as I suspect, duplicity so that his point (the story is untrue) seems more solid.

... but not a word of it in any historical document.

Except several books of the Bible written by several different people at different times.

The Crucifixion... or "crucifixions"
The anguished miserable Jesus in "Mark"
Punctuated by amazing and dramatic special effects in "Matthew"
Serene and tranquil in "Luke"
Jesus bold and taking charge in "John"

Now our friend beastt simply goes into free-fall rant mode, adding in all his little poison-pill subjective words, (anguished, miserable, amazing, dramatic special effects, Serene and tranquil, bold, taking charge.) And we know he is no longer an objective commenter, but like a sleazy political partisan, a biased person posing as something else so that his bias doesn't expose his real intent.

With all of these Earth-changing, dramatic and astounding events... we end up with 5 historians, who mention (mostly in passing), that they heard of Jesus.

I bet it irks you that 5 historians slipped through huh? Would 6 have convinced you? Or 3 mentioning more than just in passing?

Gentle Reader, if you can't see through this smarmy attempt to manipulate facts, and you aren't already an atheist, you should consider becoming one.
neutral
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9/5/2014 10:08:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 9:16:01 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/5/2014 6:58:02 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 6:24:09 AM, Beastt wrote:

Browse by range of dating or by category, New Testament " Apocrypha " Gnostics " Church Fathers " Other, or use the search box.

30-60

Passion Narrative
40-80

Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60

1 Thessalonians
50-60

Philippians
50-60

Galatians
50-60

1 Corinthians
50-60

2 Corinthians
50-60

Romans
50-60

Philemon
50-80

Colossians
50-90

Signs Gospel
50-95

Book of Hebrews

50-120

Didache
50-140

Gospel of Thomas
50-140

Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-150

Apocalypse of Adam
50-150

Eugnostos the Blessed
50-200

Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80

Gospel of Mark
70-100

Epistle of James
70-120

Egerton Gospel
70-160

Gospel of Peter
70-160

Secret Mark
70-200

Fayyum Fragment
70-200

Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200

Mara Bar Serapion
80-100

2 Thessalonians
80-100

Ephesians
80-100

Gospel of Matthew
80-110

1 Peter

80-120

Epistle of Barnabas

80-130

Gospel of Luke

80-130

Acts of the Apostles

80-140

1 Clement

80-150

Gospel of the Egyptians

80-150

Gospel of the Hebrews

80-250

Christian Sibyllines

90-95

Revelation

90-120

Gospel of John

90-120

1 John

90-120

2 John

90-120

3 John

90-120

Epistle of Jude

93

Flavius Josephus

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...

Please not both the inaccuracy, and the fact that this poster has been exposed to this information in many forms, many times, and still insists on lying about it.

But is ONLY trolling when Christians do this atheists. THIS kind of deliberate dishonesty, aimed squarely at other people's faith, should be tolerated indefinitely as legitimate academics or just skepticism?

Pathetic.

ROFL!! Oh my gosh! Take a look at the credibility here!
Yeah, sometime between 50 and 200CE... sometime between 80 and 250CE, someone - we don't know who - somewhere in that century and a half... sometime in that 17-decades - likely, with no credentials and, who witnessed none of what they presented, wrote out some stuff which is unsupported anywhere in the historical record, therefore what they wrote is historically accurate.

Thank you, Neutral. You make my job so much easier for me.

Yes, BY ALL MEANS, please take a look at the site. One called early Christian Documents, which is a date range of the collected samples of the documents recovered. By ALL means, please take a look at the site and judge for yourself.

Beasty is actually right for a change. IT IS THAT EASY!!!

All you have to do it look!

Stop reading the Christ Myth, and start reading history and you will QUICKLY see how idiotic this conspiracy theory is.

By ALL MEANS - please look!
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/5/2014 10:21:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 9:40:05 AM, ethang5 wrote:

I bet it irks you that 5 historians slipped through huh? Would 6 have convinced you? Or 3 mentioning more than just in passing?

Gentle Reader, if you can't see through this smarmy attempt to manipulate facts, and you aren't already an atheist, you should cons

Well, that was a very good post ethan ... but I am afraid today, that I learned modern critical methods have also failed to sustain the live and events of Charles Darwin. I am afraid that he too was not mentioned in the London Book Review circa. 1859 ... 'copies' and they were all copies! of the Origin of Species are ... well, copies. Do you know how many translation errors there were with old fashioned copying techniques then? Xerox did not even exist then!

No, the original claims of Darwin are all fabricated, and, as we can clearly see today, you do not even NEED a copy of the Origin of Species to understand basic biology ... which has monkeys - its pretty awesome. I mean, its not like people didn't know about monkeys before Darwin came along! He clearly stole, assuming he was even real, his ideas from Africans - where we know the British were heavily involved in colonial actions.

I am afraid that Darwin just not met modern critical methods, and he too much pass into the realm of mythology with Jesus.

So although that post sounded like logical or something ... CLEARLY, its not what it seems.
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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9/5/2014 11:49:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM, neutral wrote:
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!

I am sure this randomly ripped off plagiarism will go different though - seriously, its all academics.

YEAH ATHEISM!!!

Newt, supply just one name of a scholar who believes in the historicity of bible jesus and then provide the names of the unanimous scholars who believe the same.
Or as is your wont, go into an insane insult laden rant.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/5/2014 11:52:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 11:49:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM, neutral wrote:
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!

I am sure this randomly ripped off plagiarism will go different though - seriously, its all academics.

YEAH ATHEISM!!!

Newt, supply just one name of a scholar who believes in the historicity of bible jesus and then provide the names of the unanimous scholars who believe the same.
Or as is your wont, go into an insane insult laden rant.

Don't you have your own troll thread on this subject that I am avoiding?

Have I not asked you pointedly and repeatedly to just stay away from me?

have you noted that you and BoG are mocked mercilessly on this forum and have no respect?

I have no desire to lay out the entire field of history and its scope on the NT for a troll who is too lazy to find a single NT scholar using google, and hash;t read either the cases for or against the Christ Myth.

You are an ignoramus with a personal animus on this, and I would kindly ask you to stay away - forever. I have no desire to discuss anything with you - ever.

You cannot go a single day without controlling your stalking tendencies can you? Not even ONE DAY.
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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9/5/2014 11:57:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 11:52:24 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 11:49:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM, neutral wrote:
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!

I am sure this randomly ripped off plagiarism will go different though - seriously, its all academics.

YEAH ATHEISM!!!

Newt, supply just one name of a scholar who believes in the historicity of bible jesus and then provide the names of the unanimous scholars who believe the same.
Or as is your wont, go into an insane insult laden rant.

Don't you have your own troll thread on this subject that I am avoiding?

Have I not asked you pointedly and repeatedly to just stay away from me?

have you noted that you and BoG are mocked mercilessly on this forum and have no respect?

I have no desire to lay out the entire field of history and its scope on the NT for a troll who is too lazy to find a single NT scholar using google, and hash;t read either the cases for or against the Christ Myth.

You are an ignoramus with a personal animus on this, and I would kindly ask you to stay away - forever. I have no desire to discuss anything with you - ever.

You cannot go a single day without controlling your stalking tendencies can you? Not even ONE DAY.

Again, You already claimed to be an atheist, which you clearly aren't. So you're a liar and no one can trust anything you say.

Your own dishonesty is probably why you can't win debates.
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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9/5/2014 12:03:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 11:52:24 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 11:49:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM, neutral wrote:
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!

I am sure this randomly ripped off plagiarism will go different though - seriously, its all academics.

YEAH ATHEISM!!!

Newt, supply just one name of a scholar who believes in the historicity of bible jesus and then provide the names of the unanimous scholars who believe the same.
Or as is your wont, go into an insane insult laden rant.

Don't you have your own troll thread on this subject that I am avoiding?
No sweety, it's just a thread that you are too afraid to join. That's because you have no answers to my questions.
Have I not asked you pointedly and repeatedly to just stay away from me?
Why would I even listen to the pathetic requests of someone like you? You are a liar and deserve no respect at all.
have you noted that you and BoG are mocked mercilessly on this forum and have no respect?
Have you noticed that only the seriously deluded godbotherers are the only ones who ever agree with your insane drivel.
I have no desire to lay out the entire field of history and its scope on the NT for a troll who is too lazy to find a single NT scholar using google, and hash;t read either the cases for or against the Christ Myth.
What you mean is that you are a liar and that jesus' historicity is very definitely in question by both historians and theologians.
You are an ignoramus with a personal animus on this, and I would kindly ask you to stay away - forever. I have no desire to discuss anything with you - ever.
You don't know which way is UP.
You cannot go a single day without controlling your stalking tendencies can you? Not even ONE DAY.
We'v seen who the stalker is in the laughing thread.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/5/2014 12:08:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 12:03:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/5/2014 11:52:24 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 11:49:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM, neutral wrote:
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!

I am sure this randomly ripped off plagiarism will go different though - seriously, its all academics.

YEAH ATHEISM!!!

Newt, supply just one name of a scholar who believes in the historicity of bible jesus and then provide the names of the unanimous scholars who believe the same.
Or as is your wont, go into an insane insult laden rant.

Don't you have your own troll thread on this subject that I am avoiding?
No sweety, it's just a thread that you are too afraid to join. That's because you have no answers to my questions.
Have I not asked you pointedly and repeatedly to just stay away from me?
Why would I even listen to the pathetic requests of someone like you? You are a liar and deserve no respect at all.
have you noted that you and BoG are mocked mercilessly on this forum and have no respect?
Have you noticed that only the seriously deluded godbotherers are the only ones who ever agree with your insane drivel.
I have no desire to lay out the entire field of history and its scope on the NT for a troll who is too lazy to find a single NT scholar using google, and hash;t read either the cases for or against the Christ Myth.
What you mean is that you are a liar and that jesus' historicity is very definitely in question by both historians and theologians.
You are an ignoramus with a personal animus on this, and I would kindly ask you to stay away - forever. I have no desire to discuss anything with you - ever.
You don't know which way is UP.
You cannot go a single day without controlling your stalking tendencies can you? Not even ONE DAY.
We'v seen who the stalker is in the laughing thread.

Why are you seeking a conversation with a deluded God botherer who absolutely loathes you?

Because you are an abusive troll with boundary and personality disorder issues of course.

Pease stay away stalker. In civilized society, the police would be coming. In atheism imagination land - this is ... scholarship.
bulproof
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9/5/2014 12:20:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 12:08:08 PM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 12:03:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/5/2014 11:52:24 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/5/2014 11:49:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM, neutral wrote:
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!

I am sure this randomly ripped off plagiarism will go different though - seriously, its all academics.

YEAH ATHEISM!!!

Newt, supply just one name of a scholar who believes in the historicity of bible jesus and then provide the names of the unanimous scholars who believe the same.
Or as is your wont, go into an insane insult laden rant.

Don't you have your own troll thread on this subject that I am avoiding?
No sweety, it's just a thread that you are too afraid to join. That's because you have no answers to my questions.
Have I not asked you pointedly and repeatedly to just stay away from me?
Why would I even listen to the pathetic requests of someone like you? You are a liar and deserve no respect at all.
have you noted that you and BoG are mocked mercilessly on this forum and have no respect?
Have you noticed that only the seriously deluded godbotherers are the only ones who ever agree with your insane drivel.
I have no desire to lay out the entire field of history and its scope on the NT for a troll who is too lazy to find a single NT scholar using google, and hash;t read either the cases for or against the Christ Myth.
What you mean is that you are a liar and that jesus' historicity is very definitely in question by both historians and theologians.
You are an ignoramus with a personal animus on this, and I would kindly ask you to stay away - forever. I have no desire to discuss anything with you - ever.
You don't know which way is UP.
You cannot go a single day without controlling your stalking tendencies can you? Not even ONE DAY.
We'v seen who the stalker is in the laughing thread.

Why are you seeking a conversation with a deluded God botherer who absolutely loathes you?

Because you are an abusive troll with boundary and personality disorder issues of course.

Pease stay away stalker. In civilized society, the police would be coming. In atheism imagination land - this is ... scholarship.

I'll translate for those who don't understand gibberish.

Newt claims that ALL historians accept the historicity of the bible jesus, of course this is completely untrue as I have proven in many threads.

Newt, as usual, then insults and accuses in place of actually supplying an opposing argument.

IOW newt is a pathological liar who is deathly afraid of not only DEATH but TRUTH itself.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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9/5/2014 12:43:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:52:52 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/5/2014 5:42:30 AM, neutral wrote:
Oh look, because having SIX Christ Myth threads in two weeks is not enough ... we need another one ... from the same and pretty much only guy, involved in all six.
Oh look here. These threads are all "from" me and I'm the only one involved! Except of course, that they're not all from me (I believe this is the only one I started), and I'm certainly not the only one involved. In fact, I believe I've seen you posting in each and every one of them; isn't that correct? Yet somehow, it's menacing and malevolent behavior for anyone else to comment in all of them?

Couldn't win it even once in six tries in two weeks? Let's try seven or eight! Maybe this time we'll get a Newb and be able to bamboozle the Newb with smoke and mirrors!
What makes you think we haven't won in all of them? You still haven't presented the minimum of credible evidence for a historical Jesus. Sorry Bud, but that's a win for mythicism.

Won, in the sense that it's pretty well documented that you blurt out whatever suits you at the moment, then when the rubber meets the road, you come up dry.

You, sir, have topped Christians ten to one in making assertions that you cannot possibly substantiate with any sort of credible evidence. The latest is that you are labeling a retroactive study of early Christians regarding the authorship of a book a "vote". I guess that's the best you can do, along with a quibble that the NIV Study Bible editors used language that didn't suit you - even though you are the one who introduced their writing!

Now you're "done" with that topic, and "done" for the reason that you finally realize that what you said regarding the whole matter was untrue.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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9/5/2014 1:21:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:16:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Going through the gospels it's interesting to note the near Earth-shattering events involving the life of Jesus, which are completely vacant from the historical record. And it should be noted that the first century is considered to be one of the best-documented periods in ancient history. There were a plethora of writers, both Roman and Jewish who demonstrated great interest and had much to say about the things going on in the "time of Jesus". And yet, the gospels present many note-worthy events which are simply vacant from the historical record.

- Caesar taxed the world (Luke 2:1-4)

- The Slaughter of the Innocents (Not even mentioned in the list of Herod's wrongs by Josephus)

- The Famous Ministry of Jesus

- Jesus' Triumphant Entry into Jerusalem - the whole town turns out (Contrary in "Mark" to the claims in "John")

- The Trial(s) of Jesus (Just days after triumphantly entering the city)
- - Questioned by the Jewish Sanhedrin High Court
- - Questioned by Annas (The father-in-law of the High Priest)
- - Questioned by the High Priest himself
- - Questioned by Pontius Pilate
- - Questioned by King Herod Antipas
- - Questioned again by Pontius Pilate
- - So we have a dramatic arrest followed by an illegal trial at night, and a gripping finale played out before the multitudes of Jerusalem...
... but not a word of it in any historical document.

- The Crucifixion... or "crucifixions"
- - The anguished miserable Jesus in "Mark"
- - Punctuated by amazing and dramatic special effects in "Matthew"
- - Serene and tranquil in "Luke"
- - Jesus bold and taking charge in "John"

- All of Jesus' Miracles

- The Astounding Resurrection

With all of these Earth-changing, dramatic and astounding events... we end up with 5 historians, who mention (mostly in passing), that they heard of Jesus. None ever saw him.

"None ever saw him."

But you haven't made a shadow of a show concerning this assertion. Matthew saw him. John saw him. James saw him. Jude saw him. Peter saw him. Jude saw him.

Remember how you did on Matthew alone? "Matthew was determined to be the author by a council over 200 years after-the-fact, after 43 years of bickering, where those in favor of old Matthew signified it by saying 'aye'." Such a statement ranks you right up there with bornofgod and celestialtorah, i. e. "just make it up as you go along."

Do you not realize the corner you have pinned yourself in?

"The apostle Matthew didn't write the Gospel of Matthew"
"The apostle John didn't write the Gospel of John"
"The apostle Peter didn't pen I Peter"
"The apostle Peter didn't dictate the Gospel of Mark"
"The Book of James was not written by James the Just"
"The Book of Jude was not written by Jude"
"The apostle Paul did not ever meet anyone who actually knew Jesus."
"Luke the physician never met a single person who actually knew Jesus."

Every last one of the above statements has to be true, or you are dead in the water. It's almost unbelievable that a sane person would entertain your position.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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9/5/2014 1:27:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:16:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Going through the gospels it's interesting to note the near Earth-shattering events involving the life of Jesus, which are completely vacant from the historical record.

The gospel accounts are a part of "the historical record."

And it should be noted that the first century is considered to be one of the best-documented periods in ancient history.

Yes, it would be among the top twenty.

- Caesar taxed the world (Luke 2:1-4)

The word means "take a census."

- The Famous Ministry of Jesus

I doubt that Jesus's ministry was all that famous during His life.

- Jesus' Triumphant Entry into Jerusalem - the whole town turns out (Contrary in "Mark" to the claims in "John")

I thought you claimed that the author of John copied from the Book of Mark.

- The Trial(s) of Jesus (Just days after triumphantly entering the city)
- - Questioned by the Jewish Sanhedrin High Court

and?

- - Questioned by Annas (The father-in-law of the High Priest)

Are you taking the position that such a person did not exist?

- - Questioned by the High Priest himself

The name is "Caiaphus". Did he exist?

- - Questioned by Pontius Pilate

At one time, he didn't exist. Now he does. Go figure.

- - Questioned by King Herod Antipas
- - Questioned again by Pontius Pilate
- - So we have a dramatic arrest followed by an illegal trial at night, and a gripping finale played out before the multitudes of Jerusalem...
... but not a word of it in any historical document.

- The Crucifixion... or "crucifixions"
- - The anguished miserable Jesus in "Mark"
- - Punctuated by amazing and dramatic special effects in "Matthew"
- - Serene and tranquil in "Luke"

Funny that you find contradictions when you need to, but still claim that the author of Luke copied from Mark.

- - Jesus bold and taking charge in "John"

- All of Jesus' Miracles

- The Astounding Resurrection

With all of these Earth-changing, dramatic and astounding events... we end up with 5 historians, who mention (mostly in passing), that they heard of Jesus. None ever saw him. None ever mentioned him in the time these events were supposed to have taken place, none ever seem to have met anyone who knew him or witnessed these events.

We'd need some sort of proof of the "none ever seem to have met anyone" part.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
BennyW
Posts: 698
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9/5/2014 1:36:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 5:16:37 AM, Beastt wrote:
Going through the gospels it's interesting to note the near Earth-shattering events involving the life of Jesus, which are completely vacant from the historical record. And it should be noted that the first century is considered to be one of the best-documented periods in ancient history. There were a plethora of writers, both Roman and Jewish who demonstrated great interest and had much to say about the things going on in the "time of Jesus". And yet, the gospels present many note-worthy events which are simply vacant from the historical record.

- Caesar taxed the world (Luke 2:1-4)

- The Slaughter of the Innocents (Not even mentioned in the list of Herod's wrongs by Josephus)

- The Famous Ministry of Jesus

- Jesus' Triumphant Entry into Jerusalem - the whole town turns out (Contrary in "Mark" to the claims in "John")

- The Trial(s) of Jesus (Just days after triumphantly entering the city)
- - Questioned by the Jewish Sanhedrin High Court
- - Questioned by Annas (The father-in-law of the High Priest)
- - Questioned by the High Priest himself
- - Questioned by Pontius Pilate
- - Questioned by King Herod Antipas
- - Questioned again by Pontius Pilate
- - So we have a dramatic arrest followed by an illegal trial at night, and a gripping finale played out before the multitudes of Jerusalem...
... but not a word of it in any historical document.

- The Crucifixion... or "crucifixions"
- - The anguished miserable Jesus in "Mark"
- - Punctuated by amazing and dramatic special effects in "Matthew"
- - Serene and tranquil in "Luke"
- - Jesus bold and taking charge in "John"

- All of Jesus' Miracles

- The Astounding Resurrection

With all of these Earth-changing, dramatic and astounding events... we end up with 5 historians, who mention (mostly in passing), that they heard of Jesus. None ever saw him. None ever mentioned him in the time these events were supposed to have taken place, none ever seem to have met anyone who knew him or witnessed these events. Even historians who focused on politics and religion and wrote prolifically and in great detail - sometimes of the highly mundane - never mention Jesus.

[Fitzgerald, David (2010-09-30). Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All (Kindle Location 359). Lulu. Kindle Edition.]

The trial and crucifixion was mentioned in Tacitus at least. Not in great detail but it is till a historic record.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
Beastt
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9/5/2014 1:50:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 9:40:05 AM, ethang5 wrote:


Beastt wrote:

Going through the gospels it's interesting to note the near Earth-shattering events involving the life of Jesus, which are completely vacant from the historical record.

The implication here of course is that it should be in the historical record. On what logic does he base that claim? Why should we assume this is a reasonable expectation? Consider....
And it most certainly should be. As noted in the work of David Fitzgerald;

- "Increasingly, Christian commentators have noticed this shortage of historical corroboration for the Gospels and taken a very different tack. They like to claim that this is not surprising at all. After all, they say, these were ancient times. Most people were illiterate. Judea was out in the boonies of the Roman Empire. Besides, historians back then wrote little about religious figures anyway, and Jesus" ministry only lasted three years (or maybe just one year). And finally, they insist almost no first century texts of any kind survive at all. All in all, there simply was little reason for most historians of the time to take notice of this humble carpenter from Nazareth " isn"t that right?"

And he responds...

- "The truth is something quite different: the first century is actually considered one of the best-documented periods in ancient history, and Judea, far from being a forgotten backwater, was a turbulent province of vital strategic importance to the Romans. There were plenty of writers, both Roman and Jewish, who had great interest in and much to say about the region and its happenings during Jesus" time. We still have many of their writings today: volumes and volumes from scores of writers detailing humdrum events and lesser exploits of much more mundane figures in Roman Palestine, including several failed Jewish messiahs. If the Gospels were true, or even preserved a kernel of truth at their cores, they certainly had plenty of much more exciting material to catch the eye of contemporary writers and historians."

Fitzgerald, David (2010-09-30). Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All (Kindle Locations 224-230). Lulu. Kindle Edition.

In the 1st century,
1. The fastest form of international transportation averaged 4 miles an hour at the most. Reports of something happening a mere 128 miles away would take one week to arrive even if the report traveled at top speed the entire 7 days! No man or horse could do that. Yet, the chronologically challenged atheists, stuck in his time-frame, cannot, (or more likely will not) factor this in.

2. What the confused atheist cannot understand, is that many events he considers a miraculous happening today, with his current knowledge of science, would not have caused as much consternation back then. But while cursing the men of that time for being ignorant goat herders, he will also assume that they should have reacted to events the way people today do, and if they didn't will scream that the story rings untrue.

3. Most American atheists, having never lived in, or been exposed to primitive cultures, cannot understand the dynamics within those cultures and assume that societal morays and reactions to be the same as today, and if they didn't will scream that the story rings untrue. In the first century, virtually all men who could read and write, and there were very, very, few of them, were employees of the King. They were not free to record whatever they wanted.

4. People were often afraid to talk, and it was not easy to go around interviewing for a story. Most people were quite unaware of events that happened around them because their existence was focused on eeking out a living. They didn't have the World News Tonight when they got home in the evenings. There was no "Good Morning Israel" when they woke. But the confused atheist today, with the idea in his mind of the international journalist, cannot understand why the story wasn't spread across the banner of the Stone Age Herald.

So despite your desperate claims that historical documentation was iffy and rare, the documentation we have today demonstrates the clear failure of that assessment.

And it should be noted that the first century is considered to be one of the best-documented periods in ancient history. There were a plethora of writers, both Roman and Jewish who demonstrated great interest and had much to say about the things going on in the "time of Jesus". And yet, the gospels present many note-worthy events which are simply vacant from the historical record.

Let it be noted that we have detailed information on events far more mundane and less note-worthy than a persecuted man who proclaimed he would defeat death, actually rising from the dead three days after being executed. To think that Caesar could tax the world and have it not be noted anywhere among historical writings borders on the fringe of absolute insanity. You see, it goes well beyond Jesus himself. The New Testament makes near continual claims of absolutely life-changing events - events which would even change the concept of life as we hold it today.... but not a single historian anywhere noticed. One would have to crazy with fear to look at that and try to make a case that there is no reason to find these miraculous, earth-changing events. Surely, saints rising from their graves is sufficient to garner some historical interest. But not only do we find not a single historian taking note of this - despite having a whole city full of witnesses - even among the canonized gospels only one bothers to mention it.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire