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Is it really only a coincidence?

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, is it?

Surely it is simply too much of a coincidence that precisely at the time, and during the period, when scripture foretold that Satan would be cast down to the "vicinity of the earth having great anger" that this world has changed so dramatically despite all the previous millennia of relative stagnation.

What do I mean?

Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Life has suddenly added so many distractions to our lives, all things designed to take up more and more of our time and keep us from interest in or time for studying "the more important things.

I simply don;'t see that as coincidence. There is far too much of it, and it all fits in with scriptural prophecies of "the time of the end".

So, is it all bad news? Far from it.

For lovers of peace and truth it is very good news indeed, because at the same time as all this has been happening, Christ has gathered together a small group of people who despite their ignorance of the truth wanted, genuinely, to serve God and Christ in the way that God and Christ want them to. That initial small group has grown and continues to grow, attracting lovers of God and Christ to their side because part of their commission has long been to fulfil another part of the prophecy of the time of the end, specifically Matthew 24:14, and ensure that, as Jesus foretold " this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations," all the time knowing that when the work is done to Christ's satisfaction" then the end will come", though admittedly not knowing exactly when that will be. Being kept in ignorance of the exact time does mean that they have to serve God for love of God and man, not for a specific date, and this makes sure that, as Jesus also said, only those who endure up to the end will be saved.

Once again God has put the same choices to mankind that Moses put to the Israelites, with the same encouragement to "!choose life".

Which will you choose? Like each individual Israelite back then, only you can maker the choice.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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9/6/2014 8:38:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well, is it?

Surely it is simply too much of a coincidence that precisely at the time, and during the period, when scripture foretold that Satan would be cast down to the "vicinity of the earth having great anger" that this world has changed so dramatically despite all the previous millennia of relative stagnation.

What do I mean?

Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Life has suddenly added so many distractions to our lives, all things designed to take up more and more of our time and keep us from interest in or time for studying "the more important things.

I simply don;'t see that as coincidence. There is far too much of it, and it all fits in with scriptural prophecies of "the time of the end".

So, is it all bad news? Far from it.

For lovers of peace and truth it is very good news indeed, because at the same time as all this has been happening, Christ has gathered together a small group of people who despite their ignorance of the truth wanted, genuinely, to serve God and Christ in the way that God and Christ want them to. That initial small group has grown and continues to grow, attracting lovers of God and Christ to their side because part of their commission has long been to fulfil another part of the prophecy of the time of the end, specifically Matthew 24:14, and ensure that, as Jesus foretold " this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations," all the time knowing that when the work is done to Christ's satisfaction" then the end will come", though admittedly not knowing exactly when that will be. Being kept in ignorance of the exact time does mean that they have to serve God for love of God and man, not for a specific date, and this makes sure that, as Jesus also said, only those who endure up to the end will be saved.

Once again God has put the same choices to mankind that Moses put to the Israelites, with the same encouragement to "!choose life".

Which will you choose? Like each individual Israelite back then, only you can maker the choice.

I didn't read it (because it came from you) but it is quite obviously insane because it came from you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/6/2014 9:05:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 8:38:14 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well, is it?

Surely it is simply too much of a coincidence that precisely at the time, and during the period, when scripture foretold that Satan would be cast down to the "vicinity of the earth having great anger" that this world has changed so dramatically despite all the previous millennia of relative stagnation.

What do I mean?

Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Life has suddenly added so many distractions to our lives, all things designed to take up more and more of our time and keep us from interest in or time for studying "the more important things.

I simply don;'t see that as coincidence. There is far too much of it, and it all fits in with scriptural prophecies of "the time of the end".

So, is it all bad news? Far from it.

For lovers of peace and truth it is very good news indeed, because at the same time as all this has been happening, Christ has gathered together a small group of people who despite their ignorance of the truth wanted, genuinely, to serve God and Christ in the way that God and Christ want them to. That initial small group has grown and continues to grow, attracting lovers of God and Christ to their side because part of their commission has long been to fulfil another part of the prophecy of the time of the end, specifically Matthew 24:14, and ensure that, as Jesus foretold " this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations," all the time knowing that when the work is done to Christ's satisfaction" then the end will come", though admittedly not knowing exactly when that will be. Being kept in ignorance of the exact time does mean that they have to serve God for love of God and man, not for a specific date, and this makes sure that, as Jesus also said, only those who endure up to the end will be saved.

Once again God has put the same choices to mankind that Moses put to the Israelites, with the same encouragement to "!choose life".

Which will you choose? Like each individual Israelite back then, only you can maker the choice.

I didn't read it (because it came from you) but it is quite obviously insane because it came from you.

Lol
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/6/2014 9:58:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

Confirmation, yes, but it's too extreme to be merely bias, unless you want to bury your head in the sand like most people did who really didn't see that WWII would ever happen, despite the signs.

Up to you, The problem is that confirmation in the signs happening around us is exactly what we were told to watch for, and since especially when it came to the "signs of the times".

Some people get it wrong and pretend to themselves that it has already happened, which it so obviously hasn't.

Some people thought that WWI was the start of the Great Tribulation. They were wrong, but how bad do you want it to get before it becomes more than "confirmation bias" in your eyes? Will it be bad enough for that before it's too late for you to jump anyway.

Jesus likened these times to the time leading up to teh flood, and I can well see why when I rad what poeple such as you write.

Think about it.

Noah was warning eople who apparently had never even seen rain, that it was going too pour down big time. How would you have reacted?

Would you have laughed at Noah like they did?

Would you have waited until it actually started to rain, like they did?

If so, like them you will find the "Ark door" shut to you, just like they did.

Your choice is, and can only be yours,, eitehr way you could look stupid, and to some will, like I do, but would you rather live and watch the truly stupid die? Or die with them?

Scripture tells us that the majority will ignore the signs.

History tells us how often mankind has done just that since the flood.

Surely it is better to act as if you have seen the signs and be wrong as some have been, than to ignore them and be wrong for doing that? The brothers and sisters who were wrong about WWI learned from their error and accepted that error. They have been wrong once or twice since also. We may all be wrong about the urgency now also, but what if we aren't? How far can we push it and not lose out? How big a gambler are you because it is your life you are gambling with, and not just this 3 score years and ten, but a perfectly paradisaic eternal future life.

Again, your choice, but I know which way my vote goes. I choose life, personally, and if I am proven wrong once or twice along the way, fine, I am more than capable of learning from my mistakes, lol, I've had enough practice at it in the past.

The one thing I have no doubt over whatever is that it is coming, it is only the when that is the problem. Next week? Next month? Next year? or next decade? The preaching work, like Noah's before the flood, hasn't been cancelled yet, so there is still time, but how much?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 9:58:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

Confirmation, yes, but it's too extreme to be merely bias, unless you want to bury your head in the sand like most people did who really didn't see that WWII would ever happen, despite the signs.

Up to you, The problem is that confirmation in the signs happening around us is exactly what we were told to watch for, and since especially when it came to the "signs of the times".

So rather then to defend your assertions that the passages you spoke of were directly referring to the events of today, you instead bring up a new set of passages predicting some other event.

I can see where this is going.

Some people thought that WWI was the start of the Great Tribulation. They were wrong, but how bad do you want it to get before it becomes more than "confirmation bias" in your eyes? Will it be bad enough for that before it's too late for you to jump anyway.

It makes no difference how bad it is, that has nothing to do with confirmation bias. The passages you speak of are vague at best and can be interpreted to fit whatever scenario you want, which is exactly what you are doing. If you want to justify your assertions that these passages were written with some kind of divine foreknowledge the then you need to start by explaining why the passages can only be referring to the event you attribute it to and nothing else. This is rational discussion 101.

Scripture tells us that the majority will ignore the signs.

So does human nature. Which do you think it is reasonable to assume came first?

The one thing I have no doubt over whatever is that it is coming, it is only the when that is the problem. Next week? Next month? Next year? or next decade? The preaching work, like Noah's before the flood, hasn't been cancelled yet, so there is still time, but how much?

Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.
Vision13
Posts: 38
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9/6/2014 10:49:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Do you think that the number of atheism people increase from day to day even in England where the people are Christian ?
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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9/6/2014 11:14:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

And what nation on earth could your passages have referred to that you would not be sitting here right now saying the same thing?
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/6/2014 11:18:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:14:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

And what nation on earth could your passages have referred to that you would not be sitting here right now saying the same thing?

Those prophecies are very specific. They are talking about Gods chosen people and their restoration to their homeland. This also sets up events in the book of Revelation. If Israel did not exist, then these events could not happen. Coincidence? I don't think so.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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9/6/2014 11:22:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

Yes it was restored as a spiritual nation in the first century. What we know as Israel is a counterfeit, and not really ISrael at all.

When looking for the signs one has to be careful to discern which are Spiritual and which Literal. Galatians 6:16 KJV(i) 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

There was once an Israel of God, which disappeared off the face of the earth about 400 years before Christ, and which he came to earth to restore in Spiritual form, not physical form. When Israel was dissolved at God's will, only Judah was left, so that the line to the Messiah could be maintained.

The Nation of Israel we see on the News so often has nothing to do with God whatever and is simply the work of men, ad even those who claim to be part of it can only, if they are fortunate, trace their lineage back to Judah, not to the other "lost Tribes".

Therefore it is not a part of the sign, the Spiritual Israel, the Revived Christian Congregation restored to relative health in the 1920's is. Only those with spiritual comprehension are privy to these deep things of God, as Paul makes clear, and only those who put their full trust in God and Christ, and I mean the real God and Christ not the trinitarian or triune counterfeits, are granted that comprehension by God, through Christ by the use of holy spirit. (1 Corinthians 2:15,16; James 1:5-8)
MadCornishBiker
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9/6/2014 11:27:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:18:02 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:14:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

And what nation on earth could your passages have referred to that you would not be sitting here right now saying the same thing?

Those prophecies are very specific. They are talking about Gods chosen people and their restoration to their homeland. This also sets up events in the book of Revelation. If Israel did not exist, then these events could not happen. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Unfortunately as I have already explained you are thinking of the wrong Israel, and the wrong Promised Land, both of which have been spiritual states since the time of Christ.

Spiritual Israel has been restored in this time of the end, but only those with spiritual comprehension can differentiate between them and the Satanic Counterfeit you refer to, who ceased to be God's chosen people long before Christ, but were only finally confirmed as no longer being his chosen people at Pentecost 36 C E when the New Nation was formed. That Nation too all but died out but was restored to spiritual health and the spiritual promised land in the 1920's from the group Christ called to his side at the end of the 19th century.
MadCornishBiker
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9/6/2014 11:31:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 10:49:56 AM, Vision13 wrote:
Do you think that the number of atheism people increase from day to day even in England where the people are Christian ?

The first point to make is that there are few real Christians in England, just as elsewhere in the world. It takes a lot more than just calling yourself Christian to be one.

True Christians are, have always been, and up to the final test will be, in a minority.

And yes Atheism is as strong here as anywhere.
MadCornishBiker
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9/6/2014 11:34:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:58:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

Confirmation, yes, but it's too extreme to be merely bias, unless you want to bury your head in the sand like most people did who really didn't see that WWII would ever happen, despite the signs.

Up to you, The problem is that confirmation in the signs happening around us is exactly what we were told to watch for, and since especially when it came to the "signs of the times".

So rather then to defend your assertions that the passages you spoke of were directly referring to the events of today, you instead bring up a new set of passages predicting some other event.

I can see where this is going.

Some people thought that WWI was the start of the Great Tribulation. They were wrong, but how bad do you want it to get before it becomes more than "confirmation bias" in your eyes? Will it be bad enough for that before it's too late for you to jump anyway.

It makes no difference how bad it is, that has nothing to do with confirmation bias. The passages you speak of are vague at best and can be interpreted to fit whatever scenario you want, which is exactly what you are doing. If you want to justify your assertions that these passages were written with some kind of divine foreknowledge the then you need to start by explaining why the passages can only be referring to the event you attribute it to and nothing else. This is rational discussion 101.

Scripture tells us that the majority will ignore the signs.

So does human nature. Which do you think it is reasonable to assume came first?

The one thing I have no doubt over whatever is that it is coming, it is only the when that is the problem. Next week? Next month? Next year? or next decade? The preaching work, like Noah's before the flood, hasn't been cancelled yet, so there is still time, but how much?

Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.

Yes there is a big difference in literal sense, between a week and a decade, but in geological terms something happening in a decade can be regarded as "soon" whereas in human adult terms soon can vary between whether or not we are talking of a bus arriving, being notified of whether or not we are being offered a job, or having the new bypass that was promised "soon". It's all relative to context.

For a child, soon is always a few minutes away.
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/6/2014 11:38:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:27:56 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:18:02 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:14:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

And what nation on earth could your passages have referred to that you would not be sitting here right now saying the same thing?

Those prophecies are very specific. They are talking about Gods chosen people and their restoration to their homeland. This also sets up events in the book of Revelation. If Israel did not exist, then these events could not happen. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Unfortunately as I have already explained you are thinking of the wrong Israel, and the wrong Promised Land, both of which have been spiritual states since the time of Christ.

Spiritual Israel has been restored in this time of the end, but only those with spiritual comprehension can differentiate between them and the Satanic Counterfeit you refer to, who ceased to be God's chosen people long before Christ, but were only finally confirmed as no longer being his chosen people at Pentecost 36 C E when the New Nation was formed. That Nation too all but died out but was restored to spiritual health and the spiritual promised land in the 1920's from the group Christ called to his side at the end of the 19th century.

Interesting theory. However, I'm not aware of any Scripture that backs it up. You claim that the Jews were no longer Gods chosen people, long before Christ. Yet God fulfilled the promise he made to Abraham, concerning the Messiah. Why would God keep that promise if the Jews were no longer his people?
Double_R
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9/6/2014 11:49:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:18:02 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:14:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

And what nation on earth could your passages have referred to that you would not be sitting here right now saying the same thing?

Those prophecies are very specific. They are talking about Gods chosen people and their restoration to their homeland. This also sets up events in the book of Revelation. If Israel did not exist, then these events could not happen. Coincidence? I don't think so.

You completely avoided the question.
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/6/2014 11:55:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:49:18 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:18:02 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:14:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

And what nation on earth could your passages have referred to that you would not be sitting here right now saying the same thing?

Those prophecies are very specific. They are talking about Gods chosen people and their restoration to their homeland. This also sets up events in the book of Revelation. If Israel did not exist, then these events could not happen. Coincidence? I don't think so.

You completely avoided the question.

Your question is irrelevant.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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9/6/2014 12:10:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:34:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.

Yes there is a big difference in literal sense, between a week and a decade, but in geological terms something happening in a decade can be regarded as "soon" whereas in human adult terms soon can vary between whether or not we are talking of a bus arriving, being notified of whether or not we are being offered a job, or having the new bypass that was promised "soon". It's all relative to context.

For a child, soon is always a few minutes away.

I don't know whether to find it irritating or humorous that every time I make an argument you respond to the part of the comment that was completely irrelevant and ignore the main point.

I was emphasizing the fact that no matter when this event occurs you will claim that whatever source made this prediction must have known exactly when it will happen, even though they never bothered to state it. That is the problem with bible prophesies, you accept them as proof of foreknowledge even though the source making the predictions did nothing to demonstrate that they had such knowledge. The way to demonstrate that you know something, is to communicate it. These sources did not do that.
Double_R
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9/6/2014 12:16:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:55:05 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:49:18 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:18:02 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:14:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

And what nation on earth could your passages have referred to that you would not be sitting here right now saying the same thing?

Those prophecies are very specific. They are talking about Gods chosen people and their restoration to their homeland. This also sets up events in the book of Revelation. If Israel did not exist, then these events could not happen. Coincidence? I don't think so.

You completely avoided the question.

Your question is irrelevant.

Then you wouldn't have responded to it, or you would have just stated that in the beginning.

The question is completely relevant. You treat this prophesy as if it were remarkable, yet the exact same words would describe nearly every nation on earth. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The claim that someone had real knowledge of future events is extraordinary. The prediction that a nation will be restored... not extraordinary. At all.
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/6/2014 12:52:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 12:16:22 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:55:05 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:49:18 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:18:02 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:14:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

And what nation on earth could your passages have referred to that you would not be sitting here right now saying the same thing?

Those prophecies are very specific. They are talking about Gods chosen people and their restoration to their homeland. This also sets up events in the book of Revelation. If Israel did not exist, then these events could not happen. Coincidence? I don't think so.

You completely avoided the question.

Your question is irrelevant.

Then you wouldn't have responded to it, or you would have just stated that in the beginning.

The question is completely relevant. You treat this prophesy as if it were remarkable, yet the exact same words would describe nearly every nation on earth. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The claim that someone had real knowledge of future events is extraordinary. The prediction that a nation will be restored... not extraordinary. At all.

That prophecy refers to a specific group of people (Jews) and a specific location (The Holy Land) The ancestral home of the Jewish people. Events unfolded exactly as prophesied. There is no way the prophecy could be referring to someone else. It is to specific.
MadCornishBiker
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9/6/2014 1:06:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 12:10:10 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:34:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.

Yes there is a big difference in literal sense, between a week and a decade, but in geological terms something happening in a decade can be regarded as "soon" whereas in human adult terms soon can vary between whether or not we are talking of a bus arriving, being notified of whether or not we are being offered a job, or having the new bypass that was promised "soon". It's all relative to context.

For a child, soon is always a few minutes away.

I don't know whether to find it irritating or humorous that every time I make an argument you respond to the part of the comment that was completely irrelevant and ignore the main point.

I was emphasizing the fact that no matter when this event occurs you will claim that whatever source made this prediction must have known exactly when it will happen, even though they never bothered to state it. That is the problem with bible prophesies, you accept them as proof of foreknowledge even though the source making the predictions did nothing to demonstrate that they had such knowledge. The way to demonstrate that you know something, is to communicate it. These sources did not do that.

It is up to you how you take it, but to my mind I answered the most relevant part.

Your "main point" is so obvious it needs no comment, but if you insist, I'll make one. After all the very fact that they made accurate predictions proves that they had foreknowledge or they could not have done so. No-one guesses that accurately that often.
MadCornishBiker
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9/6/2014 1:20:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 12:10:10 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:34:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.

Yes there is a big difference in literal sense, between a week and a decade, but in geological terms something happening in a decade can be regarded as "soon" whereas in human adult terms soon can vary between whether or not we are talking of a bus arriving, being notified of whether or not we are being offered a job, or having the new bypass that was promised "soon". It's all relative to context.

For a child, soon is always a few minutes away.

I don't know whether to find it irritating or humorous that every time I make an argument you respond to the part of the comment that was completely irrelevant and ignore the main point.

I was emphasizing the fact that no matter when this event occurs you will claim that whatever source made this prediction must have known exactly when it will happen, even though they never bothered to state it. That is the problem with bible prophesies, you accept them as proof of foreknowledge even though the source making the predictions did nothing to demonstrate that they had such knowledge. The way to demonstrate that you know something, is to communicate it. These sources did not do that.

Sorry, I forgot something.

Prophecy told us when Christ would take up his throne (1914) and also that ether just before it or just after it Satan would be cast down, and that is the whole point of this thread. The historical facts fit in perfectly with that prediction like they have not done at any time in the past, and can only fit in increasingly accurately.

We are also told the exact time of the end of these times (1914 + 1000 years = 2914).

What we are not told the timing of are the important events in the middle.

The Great Tribulation
The destruction of all false religion
The complete removal of human government
Armageddon
The earthly (general or second) resurrection
The restoration of the earth to it's previously planned paradisaic state.
The final test.

The only other thing we know for sure is that there will logically be a long time between the completion of the General resurrection and the final test, and that the final test will come fairly close to the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign.

I personally believe that the Great Tribulation is building in intensity, and has been for about 150 years, ever since Satan was cast down. However when it will reach it's peak and cause God to step in only he knows. Even his idea of the timing of that may well be slightly elastic.

I also firmly believe that the restoration of the earth will be started by those who survive Armageddon, and who will also be used to teach the resurrected ones as they are brought back, not only teaching them God's ways, but also how to take their part in restoring the earth and teaching later arrivals.

I may be a little adrift on some of the details, but the approximate outline I have put forward makes logical sense and God is the ultimate logical being.

When on earth, and possibly for some time after, even God's own son was unaware of the timing of his taking up his throne.If God can, for security reasons, keep things from his own son, why not from us?
Double_R
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9/6/2014 1:51:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 1:06:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 12:10:10 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:34:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.

Yes there is a big difference in literal sense, between a week and a decade, but in geological terms something happening in a decade can be regarded as "soon" whereas in human adult terms soon can vary between whether or not we are talking of a bus arriving, being notified of whether or not we are being offered a job, or having the new bypass that was promised "soon". It's all relative to context.

For a child, soon is always a few minutes away.

I don't know whether to find it irritating or humorous that every time I make an argument you respond to the part of the comment that was completely irrelevant and ignore the main point.

I was emphasizing the fact that no matter when this event occurs you will claim that whatever source made this prediction must have known exactly when it will happen, even though they never bothered to state it. That is the problem with bible prophesies, you accept them as proof of foreknowledge even though the source making the predictions did nothing to demonstrate that they had such knowledge. The way to demonstrate that you know something, is to communicate it. These sources did not do that.

It is up to you how you take it, but to my mind I answered the most relevant part.

Your "main point" is so obvious it needs no comment, but if you insist, I'll make one. After all the very fact that they made accurate predictions proves that they had foreknowledge or they could not have done so. No-one guesses that accurately that often.

You say my point is so obvious yet you still fail to address it demonstrated by the fact that you assume the very thing I am questioning, which is how we go about determining whether a prediction is accurate in the first place. Filling in the blanks after the fact is certainly not how.
MadCornishBiker
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9/6/2014 2:47:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 1:51:11 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 1:06:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 12:10:10 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:34:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.

Yes there is a big difference in literal sense, between a week and a decade, but in geological terms something happening in a decade can be regarded as "soon" whereas in human adult terms soon can vary between whether or not we are talking of a bus arriving, being notified of whether or not we are being offered a job, or having the new bypass that was promised "soon". It's all relative to context.

For a child, soon is always a few minutes away.

I don't know whether to find it irritating or humorous that every time I make an argument you respond to the part of the comment that was completely irrelevant and ignore the main point.

I was emphasizing the fact that no matter when this event occurs you will claim that whatever source made this prediction must have known exactly when it will happen, even though they never bothered to state it. That is the problem with bible prophesies, you accept them as proof of foreknowledge even though the source making the predictions did nothing to demonstrate that they had such knowledge. The way to demonstrate that you know something, is to communicate it. These sources did not do that.

It is up to you how you take it, but to my mind I answered the most relevant part.

Your "main point" is so obvious it needs no comment, but if you insist, I'll make one. After all the very fact that they made accurate predictions proves that they had foreknowledge or they could not have done so. No-one guesses that accurately that often.

You say my point is so obvious yet you still fail to address it demonstrated by the fact that you assume the very thing I am questioning, which is how we go about determining whether a prediction is accurate in the first place. Filling in the blanks after the fact is certainly not how.

And yet it is the only way. Even scripture tells us that one sign of a true prophet is if is word comes true.

Actually no, not the only way exactly.

Past record of prophecy is the only other guide we have, and so far scripture's record is 100% of prophecies due to be fulfilled at this point in time. I tend, however to use prophecy actually being fulfilled for the simple reason that they are the only ones we can actually see with our own eyes.

When it comes to past prophecy fulfilled Satan has done quite a good job of confusing the issue, just as he has "inspired" men to great heights (or depths in a very real sense) of achievement that are fulfilling his purpose and drawing people away from God whilst risking destruction of the planet and all life on it.

However there have been many prophecies fulfilled, most of which were prophecies about the Christ (over 350) because his arrival was the main focus of scripture and was expanded on slowly but surely. Even the formation of Israel and it's subsequent shepherding was all part of the lead in to his arrival.

However, the prophecy about the destruction of Babylon, including the fact that it would never be rebuilt is a fact which is visible to this day because the ruins are still where they lay,

Even God's rejection of Israel as a nation was fulfilled exactly as foretold, as was its eventual replacement by a spiritual nation.

I could go on, but biblical prophecy is a large field of study which this is neither the time onor the place for. However, any experienced JW would be more than happy to help you, or you could just work your way through this lot. http://wol.jw.org...
Skepticalone
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9/6/2014 2:52:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 11:02:16 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:17:47 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Luke 17:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

22 And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, "Look, there!" or "Look, here!" Do not go out or follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.[a] 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot"they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 18:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Matthew 24:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Revelation 11:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants,[a] the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


I don't see any coincidences, just confirmation bias.

The Bible also said that Israel would be restored as a nation. This has come to pass. It also tells us that this event is a sign that the end times will happen, within the lifetime of those who witnessed that event. Confirmation bias? I think not.

That interpretation of Matthew 24:32-35 is exclusive to premillennial Christians (not all Christians). A budding fig tree represents Israel? Okay, but that would not have been my first guess, and there are Christians who agree with me. You're using a vague passage to confirm this view MCB has set out for us with other vague passages. That is confirmation bias.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
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9/6/2014 3:07:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 1:20:39 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 12:10:10 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:34:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.

Yes there is a big difference in literal sense, between a week and a decade, but in geological terms something happening in a decade can be regarded as "soon" whereas in human adult terms soon can vary between whether or not we are talking of a bus arriving, being notified of whether or not we are being offered a job, or having the new bypass that was promised "soon". It's all relative to context.

For a child, soon is always a few minutes away.

I don't know whether to find it irritating or humorous that every time I make an argument you respond to the part of the comment that was completely irrelevant and ignore the main point.

I was emphasizing the fact that no matter when this event occurs you will claim that whatever source made this prediction must have known exactly when it will happen, even though they never bothered to state it. That is the problem with bible prophesies, you accept them as proof of foreknowledge even though the source making the predictions did nothing to demonstrate that they had such knowledge. The way to demonstrate that you know something, is to communicate it. These sources did not do that.

Sorry, I forgot something.

Prophecy told us when Christ would take up his throne (1914) and also that ether just before it or just after it Satan would be cast down, and that is the whole point of this thread. The historical facts fit in perfectly with that prediction like they have not done at any time in the past, and can only fit in increasingly accurately.

We are also told the exact time of the end of these times (1914 + 1000 years = 2914).

Ok, this is an interpretation I have not heard before. What passages state 1914 was the year Christ "would take up his throne", and what was the fulfillment in 1914?

What we are not told the timing of are the important events in the middle.

The Great Tribulation
The destruction of all false religion
The complete removal of human government
Armageddon
The earthly (general or second) resurrection
The restoration of the earth to it's previously planned paradisaic state.
The final test.

The only other thing we know for sure is that there will logically be a long time between the completion of the General resurrection and the final test, and that the final test will come fairly close to the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign.

I personally believe that the Great Tribulation is building in intensity, and has been for about 150 years, ever since Satan was cast down. However when it will reach it's peak and cause God to step in only he knows. Even his idea of the timing of that may well be slightly elastic.

Satan was cast down 150 years ago?

I also firmly believe that the restoration of the earth will be started by those who survive Armageddon, and who will also be used to teach the resurrected ones as they are brought back, not only teaching them God's ways, but also how to take their part in restoring the earth and teaching later arrivals.

I may be a little adrift on some of the details, but the approximate outline I have put forward makes logical sense and God is the ultimate logical being.

When on earth, and possibly for some time after, even God's own son was unaware of the timing of his taking up his throne.If God can, for security reasons, keep things from his own son, why not from us?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
MadCornishBiker
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9/6/2014 4:22:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:07:49 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 9/6/2014 1:20:39 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 12:10:10 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 9/6/2014 11:34:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 9/6/2014 10:44:22 AM, Double_R wrote:
Do you not find that there is a big difference between a week and a decade? But this is no problem, because whenever something close to what you are referring to happens... that's exactly what the passage meant.

Yes there is a big difference in literal sense, between a week and a decade, but in geological terms something happening in a decade can be regarded as "soon" whereas in human adult terms soon can vary between whether or not we are talking of a bus arriving, being notified of whether or not we are being offered a job, or having the new bypass that was promised "soon". It's all relative to context.

For a child, soon is always a few minutes away.

I don't know whether to find it irritating or humorous that every time I make an argument you respond to the part of the comment that was completely irrelevant and ignore the main point.

I was emphasizing the fact that no matter when this event occurs you will claim that whatever source made this prediction must have known exactly when it will happen, even though they never bothered to state it. That is the problem with bible prophesies, you accept them as proof of foreknowledge even though the source making the predictions did nothing to demonstrate that they had such knowledge. The way to demonstrate that you know something, is to communicate it. These sources did not do that.

Sorry, I forgot something.

Prophecy told us when Christ would take up his throne (1914) and also that ether just before it or just after it Satan would be cast down, and that is the whole point of this thread. The historical facts fit in perfectly with that prediction like they have not done at any time in the past, and can only fit in increasingly accurately.

We are also told the exact time of the end of these times (1914 + 1000 years = 2914).

Ok, this is an interpretation I have not heard before. What passages state 1914 was the year Christ "would take up his throne", and what was the fulfillment in 1914?

The original prophecy was in Daniel, ad the working out that brings you to 1914 is as follows, along with teh scriptures that the keys to understanding come from.

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

The events that heralded that happening were the ones i mention at the start of this, which prove that as part of his taking the throne Satan was kicked out of heaven to the vicinity of the earth (Revelation 12) plus Jesus turning his attention to the earth to find the few faithful men and women he could find and form a renewed "Spiritual Israel - Christian Congregation).


What we are not told the timing of are the important events in the middle.

The Great Tribulation
The destruction of all false religion
The complete removal of human government
Armageddon
The earthly (general or second) resurrection
The restoration of the earth to it's previously planned paradisaic state.
The final test.

The only other thing we know for sure is that there will logically be a long time between the completion of the General resurrection and the final test, and that the final test will come fairly close to the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign.

I personally believe that the Great Tribulation is building in intensity, and has been for about 150 years, ever since Satan was cast down. However when it will reach it's peak and cause God to step in only he knows. Even his idea of the timing of that may well be slightly elastic.

Satan was cast down 150 years ago?

150 years is an approximation but whatever it is based on Christ's taking up his throne in 1915 and Satan being cast down either a short while before.

I refer you back to the answer above, and then to look at the way that things have changed over the last 150 years at an unprecedented rate, all of which have provided distractions to take us away from God even though many have given short term benefits. Almost all have helped to speed up our destruction of our environment and the fragmentation of Christianity.

What better evidence of the increase of Satanic activity since his being cast down to the earth full of anger can you want? A signed confession? It seems that is what some want.

He is simply behaving like a spoilt child whose toy has broken and who doesn't want anyone else to enjoy theirs.


I also firmly believe that the restoration of the earth will be started by those who survive Armageddon, and who will also be used to teach the resurrected ones as they are brought back, not only teaching them God's ways, but also how to take their part in restoring the earth and teaching later arrivals.

I may be a little adrift on some of the details, but the approximate outline I have put forward makes logical sense and God is the ultimate logical being.

When on earth, and possibly for some time after, even God's own son was unaware of the timing of his taking up his throne.If God can, for security reasons, keep things from his own son, why not from us?
bornofgod
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9/6/2014 4:37:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 8:35:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well, is it?

Surely it is simply too much of a coincidence that precisely at the time, and during the period, when scripture foretold that Satan would be cast down to the "vicinity of the earth having great anger" that this world has changed so dramatically despite all the previous millennia of relative stagnation.

What do I mean?

Just as prophesied for this time religion, especially Christianity has become amazingly fragmented and disunited. Not only that, but Atheism has taken a firm hold on many ( Luke 17:22-30, Luke 18:8, Matthew 24:10-12)

Just as hinted at in Revelation we have reached a point when our so-called advances have brought us to the point where we truly are "ruining the earth" and approaching a rapidly point where unless God steps in there will be no life whatever left on this planet. Revelation 11:18, Matthew 24:21,22,

Life has suddenly added so many distractions to our lives, all things designed to take up more and more of our time and keep us from interest in or time for studying "the more important things.

I simply don;'t see that as coincidence. There is far too much of it, and it all fits in with scriptural prophecies of "the time of the end".

So, is it all bad news? Far from it.

For lovers of peace and truth it is very good news indeed, because at the same time as all this has been happening, Christ has gathered together a small group of people who despite their ignorance of the truth wanted, genuinely, to serve God and Christ in the way that God and Christ want them to. That initial small group has grown and continues to grow, attracting lovers of God and Christ to their side because part of their commission has long been to fulfil another part of the prophecy of the time of the end, specifically Matthew 24:14, and ensure that, as Jesus foretold " this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations," all the time knowing that when the work is done to Christ's satisfaction" then the end will come", though admittedly not knowing exactly when that will be. Being kept in ignorance of the exact time does mean that they have to serve God for love of God and man, not for a specific date, and this makes sure that, as Jesus also said, only those who endure up to the end will be saved.

Once again God has put the same choices to mankind that Moses put to the Israelites, with the same encouragement to "!choose life".

Which will you choose? Like each individual Israelite back then, only you can maker the choice.

None of us have a choice to choose life. We exist in the invisible spirit of God to live forever but the flesh that we're occupying in this age that made us believe we were real have to die first. We will awaken in new flesh in Paradise and live forever without ever understanding what death means. That's because we won't remember anything that happened in this first age.

Isaiah 65
16: So that he who blesses himself in the land shall bless himself by the God of truth, and he who takes an oath in the land shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten and are hid from my eyes.
17: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
18: But be glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19: I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.

If you can't understand this simple message, then you weren't chosen to understand it. Only a few of God's believers will totally believe this message from God about the future age to come.