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Christian Morality

Beastt
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9/7/2014 12:43:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
WARNING! People who haven't matured to a point which enables them to hear certain words without having their brain explode should avoid clicking the link. It is definitely R-Rated, (and all from the Bible).

Some will ABSOLUTELY find this offensive. It is your right to be offended. It is also YOUR choice. If you are offended, it is because you choose to be. It is your choice, and your fault. That doesn't mean you shouldn't debate the issues. But those who have difficulty handing controversial concepts and adult language, should NOT click the link.

You have been cautioned!

https://www.youtube.com...

Is our morality really fashioned after Christian values?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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9/7/2014 11:27:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
STOP!

No Mas! I am sick and tired of you atheists taking cheap shots at fundamentalist "Christians" and thinking yourselves all brainy wiserears for seeing what stoops fundamentalists Christians are.

You are the jerks just parading your egos for nothing. Nothing. Because your atheism is too intellectually cowardly to take on modern Gnostic Christians who can wipe the floor with your dumb-rearend formula attacks on Evangelicals, the dumbest of the Christians. It's like picking on the lame and I want you guys to grow up and stop acting like bullies towards weaker minded people. Pick on someone your own size.

That Bible was for religious/tribal consolidation purposes as much as showboating religious visions with wizard of Oz glitter and googahs of the corporate God people, the ones making their livings in their organized enterprises using God for this and that. You want Christianity, the real deal, you talk to Pope Francis or you talk to me. Not to Bible thumpsters.
Beastt
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9/7/2014 11:43:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 11:27:50 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
STOP!

No Mas! I am sick and tired of you atheists taking cheap shots at fundamentalist "Christians" and thinking yourselves all brainy wiserears for seeing what stoops fundamentalists Christians are.

You are the jerks just parading your egos for nothing. Nothing. Because your atheism is too intellectually cowardly to take on modern Gnostic Christians who can wipe the floor with your dumb-rearend formula attacks on Evangelicals, the dumbest of the Christians. It's like picking on the lame and I want you guys to grow up and stop acting like bullies towards weaker minded people. Pick on someone your own size.

That Bible was for religious/tribal consolidation purposes as much as showboating religious visions with wizard of Oz glitter and googahs of the corporate God people, the ones making their livings in their organized enterprises using God for this and that. You want Christianity, the real deal, you talk to Pope Francis or you talk to me. Not to Bible thumpsters.

You and fundamentalists use the same Bible. Point refuted.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
celestialtorahteacher
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9/8/2014 6:17:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
What a dumbask jerk. This is the level of atheist intelligence that throws that kind of defense of atheist picking on the weakest proponents of Christianity. You read the Bible too, don't you, but does that make you a fundamentalist Christian? Jesus H. Christ, go away with your silly grade school debating skills.
Beastt
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9/8/2014 6:47:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 6:17:43 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
What a dumbask jerk. This is the level of atheist intelligence that throws that kind of defense of atheist picking on the weakest proponents of Christianity. You read the Bible too, don't you, but does that make you a fundamentalist Christian? Jesus H. Christ, go away with your silly grade school debating skills.

I do read the Bible. And it says the things fundamentalists claim. So what is your claim; that it doesn't say what it says? Or do you simply ignore those things because they seem ridiculous you?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/8/2014 6:48:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 6:47:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:17:43 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
What a dumbask jerk. This is the level of atheist intelligence that throws that kind of defense of atheist picking on the weakest proponents of Christianity. You read the Bible too, don't you, but does that make you a fundamentalist Christian? Jesus H. Christ, go away with your silly grade school debating skills.

I do read the Bible. And it says the things fundamentalists claim. So what is your claim; that it doesn't say what it says? Or do you simply ignore those things because they seem ridiculous you?

Well, in his defense, he did read the first portion of the first chapter ... he seems to have gotten stuck after that though ...
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/8/2014 7:34:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 6:48:55 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:47:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:17:43 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
What a dumbask jerk. This is the level of atheist intelligence that throws that kind of defense of atheist picking on the weakest proponents of Christianity. You read the Bible too, don't you, but does that make you a fundamentalist Christian? Jesus H. Christ, go away with your silly grade school debating skills.

I do read the Bible. And it says the things fundamentalists claim. So what is your claim; that it doesn't say what it says? Or do you simply ignore those things because they seem ridiculous you?

Well, in his defense, he did read the first portion of the first chapter ... he seems to have gotten stuck after that though ...

Ouch
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/8/2014 7:38:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 11:43:54 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/7/2014 11:27:50 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
STOP!

No Mas! I am sick and tired of you atheists taking cheap shots at fundamentalist "Christians" and thinking yourselves all brainy wiserears for seeing what stoops fundamentalists Christians are.

You are the jerks just parading your egos for nothing. Nothing. Because your atheism is too intellectually cowardly to take on modern Gnostic Christians who can wipe the floor with your dumb-rearend formula attacks on Evangelicals, the dumbest of the Christians. It's like picking on the lame and I want you guys to grow up and stop acting like bullies towards weaker minded people. Pick on someone your own size.

That Bible was for religious/tribal consolidation purposes as much as showboating religious visions with wizard of Oz glitter and googahs of the corporate God people, the ones making their livings in their organized enterprises using God for this and that. You want Christianity, the real deal, you talk to Pope Francis or you talk to me. Not to Bible thumpsters.

You and fundamentalists use the same Bible. Point refuted.

Here, what he simply got angry about(and justly so) I will show to you that this is off-point and not subject to be used about Christians.
1. Using the same Bible does not mean we all have the same translation. Look at how many denominations there are. If all Christians were the same, I am pretty sure we would have figured it out by now.
2. The Bible has many different versions used by different denominations. Saying we read the Bible is like saying we all eat cereal but failing to notice one is Cheerios and the other Lucky Charms. They are similar in base but still different.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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9/8/2014 8:01:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 12:43:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
WARNING! People who haven't matured to a point which enables them to hear certain words without having their brain explode should avoid clicking the link. It is definitely R-Rated, (and all from the Bible).

Some will ABSOLUTELY find this offensive. It is your right to be offended. It is also YOUR choice. If you are offended, it is because you choose to be. It is your choice, and your fault. That doesn't mean you shouldn't debate the issues. But those who have difficulty handing controversial concepts and adult language, should NOT click the link.

You have been cautioned!

https://www.youtube.com...

Is our morality really fashioned after Christian values?

Darkmatters videos are great. It really does rub Christians up the wrong way though as they just use bible verses.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/8/2014 10:52:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 8:01:40 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 9/7/2014 12:43:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
WARNING! People who haven't matured to a point which enables them to hear certain words without having their brain explode should avoid clicking the link. It is definitely R-Rated, (and all from the Bible).

Some will ABSOLUTELY find this offensive. It is your right to be offended. It is also YOUR choice. If you are offended, it is because you choose to be. It is your choice, and your fault. That doesn't mean you shouldn't debate the issues. But those who have difficulty handing controversial concepts and adult language, should NOT click the link.

You have been cautioned!

https://www.youtube.com...

Is our morality really fashioned after Christian values?

Darkmatters videos are great. It really does rub Christians up the wrong way though as they just use bible verses.

Very true.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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9/8/2014 2:48:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There. Stopped the atheist attack on fundamentalist Pauline Christianity in its tracks. You wanted to drag up all those Bible contradictory commands to show up "Christian" immoral teachings but I stopped you. Next time you try it you will remember I'm here and will point out your same tactic of picking on the weakest proponents of Christian theology for your atheist attacks.

You want real Christian morality I am not kidding about Pope Francis. For a big shot Christian, the first Pope in history, he's walking the real Christian walk and not just talking about it. You want to talk Christian morality talk to me and forget the Bible thumpers who are out of the historical Christian loop now as God more or less destroyed Pauline Christianity with historical discovery that continues to show Gentile Churchmen origins using Jewish personages and locality for cover.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/8/2014 2:56:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 2:48:41 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
There. Stopped the atheist attack on fundamentalist Pauline Christianity in its tracks. You wanted to drag up all those Bible contradictory commands to show up "Christian" immoral teachings but I stopped you. Next time you try it you will remember I'm here and will point out your same tactic of picking on the weakest proponents of Christian theology for your atheist attacks.

You want real Christian morality I am not kidding about Pope Francis. For a big shot Christian, the first Pope in history, he's walking the real Christian walk and not just talking about it. You want to talk Christian morality talk to me and forget the Bible thumpers who are out of the historical Christian loop now as God more or less destroyed Pauline Christianity with historical discovery that continues to show Gentile Churchmen origins using Jewish personages and locality for cover.

And what do you suggest that you have done to stop what you see as attacks on Christianities weakest components? The Bible is either "the word of God" as Christians claim, or it's not!
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/8/2014 2:58:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 7:34:10 AM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:48:55 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:47:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:17:43 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
What a dumbask jerk. This is the level of atheist intelligence that throws that kind of defense of atheist picking on the weakest proponents of Christianity. You read the Bible too, don't you, but does that make you a fundamentalist Christian? Jesus H. Christ, go away with your silly grade school debating skills.

I do read the Bible. And it says the things fundamentalists claim. So what is your claim; that it doesn't say what it says? Or do you simply ignore those things because they seem ridiculous you?

Well, in his defense, he did read the first portion of the first chapter ... he seems to have gotten stuck after that though ...

Ouch

That's about as warm and fuzzy as he ever gets. He's still angry that he promotes beliefs which embrace slavery and rape, and hasn't moved past his days of being a hired killer.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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9/8/2014 5:37:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 2:48:41 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
There. Stopped the atheist attack on fundamentalist Pauline Christianity in its tracks. You wanted to drag up all those Bible contradictory commands to show up "Christian" immoral teachings but I stopped you. Next time you try it you will remember I'm here and will point out your same tactic of picking on the weakest proponents of Christian theology for your atheist attacks.

You want real Christian morality I am not kidding about Pope Francis. For a big shot Christian, the first Pope in history, he's walking the real Christian walk and not just talking about it. You want to talk Christian morality talk to me and forget the Bible thumpers who are out of the historical Christian loop now as God more or less destroyed Pauline Christianity with historical discovery that continues to show Gentile Churchmen origins using Jewish personages and locality for cover.

So the no true Scotsman fallacy? Or am I to assume that this is not the no true Scotsman.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/8/2014 9:08:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 5:37:32 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
So the no true Scotsman fallacy? Or am I to assume that this is not the no true Scotsman.

I have no clue what he's rambling on about. Maybe just a standard Christian delusion.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
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9/9/2014 1:05:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Obviously, this provides even more examples of scripture which are simply too "hot" for Christians to handle.

So what do Christians do? They can't refute it, it's in the Bible. They can't defend it without showing themselves to be barbaric monsters. So they carefully tip-toe around it, and pretend it isn't there. That's the most cowardly means possible to maintain a beliefs - just pretend the horrors behind that belief, don't exist. Hear no evil (when it's in the Bible), speak no evil (but still promote the Bible), and think no evil. But when you tell yourself a book of evil is a good moral guide, you end up adopting pure barbarity, and believing it to be morality.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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9/9/2014 1:14:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 11:43:54 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/7/2014 11:27:50 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
STOP!

No Mas! I am sick and tired of you atheists taking cheap shots at fundamentalist "Christians" and thinking yourselves all brainy wiserears for seeing what stoops fundamentalists Christians are.

You are the jerks just parading your egos for nothing. Nothing. Because your atheism is too intellectually cowardly to take on modern Gnostic Christians who can wipe the floor with your dumb-rearend formula attacks on Evangelicals, the dumbest of the Christians. It's like picking on the lame and I want you guys to grow up and stop acting like bullies towards weaker minded people. Pick on someone your own size.

That Bible was for religious/tribal consolidation purposes as much as showboating religious visions with wizard of Oz glitter and googahs of the corporate God people, the ones making their livings in their organized enterprises using God for this and that. You want Christianity, the real deal, you talk to Pope Francis or you talk to me. Not to Bible thumpsters.

You and fundamentalists use the same Bible. Point refuted.

What a weak retort. You can do better Beast.
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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9/9/2014 1:17:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 2:56:19 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 2:48:41 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
There. Stopped the atheist attack on fundamentalist Pauline Christianity in its tracks. You wanted to drag up all those Bible contradictory commands to show up "Christian" immoral teachings but I stopped you. Next time you try it you will remember I'm here and will point out your same tactic of picking on the weakest proponents of Christian theology for your atheist attacks.

You want real Christian morality I am not kidding about Pope Francis. For a big shot Christian, the first Pope in history, he's walking the real Christian walk and not just talking about it. You want to talk Christian morality talk to me and forget the Bible thumpers who are out of the historical Christian loop now as God more or less destroyed Pauline Christianity with historical discovery that continues to show Gentile Churchmen origins using Jewish personages and locality for cover.

And what do you suggest that you have done to stop what you see as attacks on Christianities weakest components? The Bible is either "the word of God" as Christians claim, or it's not!

Many Christian sects believe the bible is predominately made up of parables and hearsay accountings. They don't take it literally.

You're being intolerant by stereotyping all Christians as biblical literalists, when they are the minority.
Beastt
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9/9/2014 1:51:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 1:17:16 PM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 9/8/2014 2:56:19 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 2:48:41 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
There. Stopped the atheist attack on fundamentalist Pauline Christianity in its tracks. You wanted to drag up all those Bible contradictory commands to show up "Christian" immoral teachings but I stopped you. Next time you try it you will remember I'm here and will point out your same tactic of picking on the weakest proponents of Christian theology for your atheist attacks.

You want real Christian morality I am not kidding about Pope Francis. For a big shot Christian, the first Pope in history, he's walking the real Christian walk and not just talking about it. You want to talk Christian morality talk to me and forget the Bible thumpers who are out of the historical Christian loop now as God more or less destroyed Pauline Christianity with historical discovery that continues to show Gentile Churchmen origins using Jewish personages and locality for cover.

And what do you suggest that you have done to stop what you see as attacks on Christianities weakest components? The Bible is either "the word of God" as Christians claim, or it's not!

Many Christian sects believe the bible is predominately made up of parables and hearsay accountings. They don't take it literally.

You're being intolerant by stereotyping all Christians as biblical literalists, when they are the minority.

And as time moves on and science makes more and more discoveries, showing that the Bible is wrong, even more of it is claimed to be parables and figurative references. But I'm not being intolerant, nor am I claiming all Christians to be Bible literalists. I'm simply holding them to what the Bible actually says, rather than the distortions they apply to what it says, in order to ignore what it says. It says what it says.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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9/9/2014 2:35:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 1:51:19 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 1:17:16 PM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 9/8/2014 2:56:19 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 2:48:41 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
There. Stopped the atheist attack on fundamentalist Pauline Christianity in its tracks. You wanted to drag up all those Bible contradictory commands to show up "Christian" immoral teachings but I stopped you. Next time you try it you will remember I'm here and will point out your same tactic of picking on the weakest proponents of Christian theology for your atheist attacks.

You want real Christian morality I am not kidding about Pope Francis. For a big shot Christian, the first Pope in history, he's walking the real Christian walk and not just talking about it. You want to talk Christian morality talk to me and forget the Bible thumpers who are out of the historical Christian loop now as God more or less destroyed Pauline Christianity with historical discovery that continues to show Gentile Churchmen origins using Jewish personages and locality for cover.

And what do you suggest that you have done to stop what you see as attacks on Christianities weakest components? The Bible is either "the word of God" as Christians claim, or it's not!

Many Christian sects believe the bible is predominately made up of parables and hearsay accountings. They don't take it literally.

You're being intolerant by stereotyping all Christians as biblical literalists, when they are the minority.

And as time moves on and science makes more and more discoveries, showing that the Bible is wrong, even more of it is claimed to be parables and figurative references.

Except Science has nothing to do with hearsay accounting and stories told by rabbis. Does the story about the boy who cried wolf have no impact, simply because it never actually happened? No. It still has value.

But I'm not being intolerant, nor am I claiming all Christians to be Bible literalists.

Yes, yes you are. On both accounts.

I'm simply holding them to what the Bible actually says,

Which is the assumption that they are biblical literallists. You have instantly contradicted yourself. I expected better.

rather than the distortions they apply to what it says,

You're still referring to all Christians rather than the specific sects which actually distort the bible. Those who view the bible as figurative do not believe what you claim, and it is bigotry to suggest they believe what they do not, simply because you are ignorant on the matter.

in order to ignore what it says. It says what it says.

And much of what it says is historic, and not meant to be taken as a guide for living in the modern world. This is why many Christian sects do not hold to the dietary restrictions of the Old Testament.

They don't believe it is the Word, nor to they believe it is the Law, they believe it is a historical (hearsay) accounting of oral histories and traditions, with cautionary moral stories woven throughout.

To suggest those Christians believe in a literal bible is not only dishonest, but a form of bigotry.
Beastt
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9/9/2014 2:48:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:35:11 PM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 9/9/2014 1:51:19 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 1:17:16 PM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 9/8/2014 2:56:19 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 2:48:41 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
There. Stopped the atheist attack on fundamentalist Pauline Christianity in its tracks. You wanted to drag up all those Bible contradictory commands to show up "Christian" immoral teachings but I stopped you. Next time you try it you will remember I'm here and will point out your same tactic of picking on the weakest proponents of Christian theology for your atheist attacks.

You want real Christian morality I am not kidding about Pope Francis. For a big shot Christian, the first Pope in history, he's walking the real Christian walk and not just talking about it. You want to talk Christian morality talk to me and forget the Bible thumpers who are out of the historical Christian loop now as God more or less destroyed Pauline Christianity with historical discovery that continues to show Gentile Churchmen origins using Jewish personages and locality for cover.

And what do you suggest that you have done to stop what you see as attacks on Christianities weakest components? The Bible is either "the word of God" as Christians claim, or it's not!

Many Christian sects believe the bible is predominately made up of parables and hearsay accountings. They don't take it literally.

You're being intolerant by stereotyping all Christians as biblical literalists, when they are the minority.

And as time moves on and science makes more and more discoveries, showing that the Bible is wrong, even more of it is claimed to be parables and figurative references.

Except Science has nothing to do with hearsay accounting and stories told by rabbis.
Which is true, but no one said it did.

Does the story about the boy who cried wolf have no impact, simply because it never actually happened? No. It still has value.
But it is not "truth", nor is it historical. Christians claim the Bible is truth, and his historical, even when they choose to ignore what it says.

But I'm not being intolerant, nor am I claiming all Christians to be Bible literalists.

Yes, yes you are. On both accounts.
No, no I'm not. And simply repeating your former assertion does nothing to strengthen that assertion. If someone claims that the Bible is true, then they're making a statement in regard to the claims made in the Bible. And since those claims are untrue, their claims of them are untrue.

I'm simply holding them to what the Bible actually says,

Which is the assumption that they are biblical literallists.
No, it isn't. One can understand that a future event is not a fig leaf, yet still proclaim the the future event will happen. But when you ignore the fact that this "future" event was supposed to occur before the death of the last disciple, you're still referring to a metaphorical "fig leaf", yet demanding a literal event, which didn't happen, and therefore, wasn't true.

You have instantly contradicted yourself. I expected better.
You have misunderstood. And it would appear you have taken great pains with the purpose of disagreeing.

rather than the distortions they apply to what it says,

You're still referring to all Christians rather than the specific sects which actually distort the bible. Those who view the bible as figurative do not believe what you claim, and it is bigotry to suggest they believe what they do not, simply because you are ignorant on the matter.
You're simply wrong. Show me a Christian today, who doesn't believe that Jesus actually existed on Earth. Show me one who doesn't think that the afterlife is literal, or that Heaven, Hell and salvation are literal. I've never known any Christian who interpreted everything in the Bible figuratively, and I can most certainly hold them to what they take literally, as literal!

in order to ignore what it says. It says what it says.

And much of what it says is historic, and not meant to be taken as a guide for living in the modern world.
Very little of what the Bible says holds any historical credibility.

This is why many Christian sects do not hold to the dietary restrictions of the Old Testament.
They do that for their own convenience. It's the same reason they plan for tomorrow, in clear defiance of what Jesus of the Bible taught. It's the same reason they haven't cast off their worldly possessions. They simply accept the parts they like, and either ignore the parts they don't, or claim them to be figurative or metaphorical, in a dishonest evasion of what the Bible says.

They don't believe it is the Word, nor to they believe it is the Law, they believe it is a historical (hearsay) accounting of oral histories and traditions, with cautionary moral stories woven throughout.
No, they assert that. In most cases, they have no grounds upon which to believe it.

To suggest those Christians believe in a literal bible is not only dishonest, but a form of bigotry.
But you're the one insisting that I'm claiming they believe in a literal Bible. I keep telling you that they don't. The ignore the literal statements and directives of the Bible, to allow them to do was they wish, and claim beliefs they reject.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
The_Immortal_Emris
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9/9/2014 3:39:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Many Christian sects believe the bible is predominately made up of parables and hearsay accountings. They don't take it literally.

You're being intolerant by stereotyping all Christians as biblical literalists, when they are the minority.

And as time moves on and science makes more and more discoveries, showing that the Bible is wrong, even more of it is claimed to be parables and figurative references.

Except Science has nothing to do with hearsay accounting and stories told by rabbis.
Which is true, but no one said it did.

Except you did. Directly above. ", And as time moves on and science makes more and more discoveries, showing that the Bible is wrong, even more of it is claimed to be parables and figurative references."

Clearly your profile must have been hijacked.

Does the story about the boy who cried wolf have no impact, simply because it never actually happened? No. It still has value.
But it is not "truth", nor is it historical.

It IS historical. It has an origin in history.

Again, I will stress that you are ignoring the fact that many Christian sects DO NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS "TRUE", they believe it is figurative, like the story about the boy who cried wolf.

Christians claim the Bible is truth,
Only biblical litaralists, who are not in the majority. Again, this is an example of bigotry, you are lumping together protestants and Lutherans and Coptics, Greek Orthogox and Catholic, Calvinists, Jehovas Witnesses, LDS members.

MANY of these groups do NOT believe the Bible is "truth". You are being a bigot by generalizing their position.

and his historical, even when they choose to ignore what it says.

It is a historical document. It's called a contextually historic reference, because it is not "accurate", but it still offers a cultural snapshot of the time and the perspective of those who wrote the book. It has value, similar to the parable of the boy who cried wolf, even if it isn't "true".

But I'm not being intolerant, nor am I claiming all Christians to be Bible literalists.

Yes, yes you are. On both accounts.

No, no I'm not. And simply repeating your former assertion does nothing to strengthen that assertion.

My support for the assertion can be seen throughout this commentary.

If someone claims that the Bible is true, then they're making a statement in regard to the claims made in the Bible.

AGAIN, you assume ALL CHRISTIANS believe the bible is true. Which is bigoted. There's the support for my assertion, in case you were wondering.

Again, you stereotype Christians. You claim, again without merit or support, that ALL Christians claim the bible is "true", when that is not the reality. There is your bigotry on display. Again.

And since those claims are untrue, their claims of them are untrue.
It's a good thing so many Christians don't actually believe in a literal bible. Unlike the universal strawman you have stereotyped.

Which is the assumption that they are biblical literallists.
No, it isn't.

"I'm simply holding them to what the Bible actually says".

I really don't know what else to say. You talk of the willful ignorance of others then display it blatantly. You're not enlightened, you're hypocritical.

One can understand that a future event is not a fig leaf, ... (blather)

All of the above rant is baseless and off topic.
1. Again, not all Christians are literalists, so not all of them believe in the "fig leaf".
2. You have fallen so far into your own bigotry, you now assume I am a Christian, simply because I don't appreciate your intolerance.
3. No one is "demanding a literal event", you clearly are not listening. Not all Christians believe the bible is literal.

You have instantly contradicted yourself. I expected better.
You have misunderstood. And it would appear you have taken great pains with the purpose of disagreeing.

This, coming from a man who just wrote a paragraph about a non-existence and metaphorical fig leaf. If anything I have taken great pains to try and show you your own intolerance, so you can better persuade others.

rather than the distortions they apply to what it says,

You're still referring to all Christians rather than the specific sects which actually distort the bible. Those who view the bible as figurative do not believe what you claim, and it is bigotry to suggest they believe what they do not, simply because you are ignorant on the matter.

You're simply wrong. Show me a Christian today, who doesn't believe that Jesus actually existed on Earth.

Historical fact indicates Yeshua, who the Romans called Jesus, was almost certainly a real figure. There is quite a bit of historic evidence that is non-biblical to support his existence. I do not feel like getting into that debate here, as it could be a dissertation, but you cannot deny with empirical certainty, his existence. You base that denial on faith, even more than the Christians who believe Jesus existed.

Show me one who doesn't think that the afterlife is literal, or that Heaven, Hell and salvation are literal.

I can show you a myriad of individuals who BELIEVE these things and aren't Christians, again, this has NOTHING to do with historical accuracy, or the literal vs. figurative interpretations of accounting in the bible. These are questions nearly ALL faiths examine.

I've never known any Christian who interpreted everything in the Bible figuratively, and I can most certainly hold them to what they take literally, as literal!

I see none of your examples actually deal in any of the parables or any of the histories of the bible, all you have cited are metaphysical musings, which are not what you seem to actually take issue with. Avoidance weakens your argument.

in order to ignore what it says. It says what it says.

And much of what it says is historic, and not meant to be taken as a guide for living in the modern world.
Very little of what the Bible says holds any historical credibility.

Do the Dead Sea Scrolls have no historic and cultural value simply because Gilgamesh may not have been a real person? No. They still offer insight into ancient culture. Just as the bible does. They still convey a moral message, just as the bible does.

This is why many Christian sects do not hold to the dietary restrictions of the Old Testament.
They do that for their own convenience.

No, they do because they aren't literalists, because they view their faith from a more enlightened perspective. Gods forbid.

It's the same reason they plan for tomorrow, in clear defiance of what Jesus of the Bible taught.

Jesus constantly told people to plan for the future. The "teach a man to fish" anecdote.

It's the same reason they haven't cast off their worldly possessions.

Many do. Again, bigotry, lumping all together.

They simply accept the parts they like, and either ignore the parts they don't, or claim them to be figurative or metaphorical, in a dishonest evasion of what the Bible says.

Except for the 2000 years of ecumenical examination. You make it sound arbitrary, as if they got together and decided over tea to ignore certain parts.

They don't believe it is the Word, nor to they believe it is the Law, they believe it is a historical (hearsay) accounting of oral histories and traditions
No, they assert that. In most cases, they have no grounds upon which to believe it.

If they don't think it's literal, belief is not a factor.

To suggest those Christians believe in a literal bible is not only dishonest, but a form of bigotry.
But you're the one insisting that I'm claiming they believe in a literal Bible.

More cognitive dissonance. You have been saying this repeatedly. I keep telling you many sects of Christianity have NEVER believed it to be literal.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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9/9/2014 4:30:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 8:01:40 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 9/7/2014 12:43:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
WARNING! People who haven't matured to a point which enables them to hear certain words without having their brain explode should avoid clicking the link. It is definitely R-Rated, (and all from the Bible).

Some will ABSOLUTELY find this offensive. It is your right to be offended. It is also YOUR choice. If you are offended, it is because you choose to be. It is your choice, and your fault. That doesn't mean you shouldn't debate the issues. But those who have difficulty handing controversial concepts and adult language, should NOT click the link.

You have been cautioned!

https://www.youtube.com...

Is our morality really fashioned after Christian values?

Darkmatters videos are great. It really does rub Christians up the wrong way though as they just use bible verses.

In the words of Penn Gilette, the surest way to create an atheist is to make them read the entire bible. What better weapon against christianity could there possibly be than their own bible?
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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9/9/2014 4:36:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 1:05:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
Obviously, this provides even more examples of scripture which are simply too "hot" for Christians to handle.

So what do Christians do? They can't refute it, it's in the Bible. They can't defend it without showing themselves to be barbaric monsters. So they carefully tip-toe around it, and pretend it isn't there. That's the most cowardly means possible to maintain a beliefs - just pretend the horrors behind that belief, don't exist. Hear no evil (when it's in the Bible), speak no evil (but still promote the Bible), and think no evil. But when you tell yourself a book of evil is a good moral guide, you end up adopting pure barbarity, and believing it to be morality.

Anything can be justified, when it carries with it the moral sanction of "divine" authority...
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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9/9/2014 4:38:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 1:05:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
Obviously, this provides even more examples of scripture which are simply too "hot" for Christians to handle.

So what do Christians do? They can't refute it, it's in the Bible. They can't defend it without showing themselves to be barbaric monsters. So they carefully tip-toe around it, and pretend it isn't there. That's the most cowardly means possible to maintain a beliefs - just pretend the horrors behind that belief, don't exist. Hear no evil (when it's in the Bible), speak no evil (but still promote the Bible), and think no evil. But when you tell yourself a book of evil is a good moral guide, you end up adopting pure barbarity, and believing it to be morality.

Hey! Don't you read? Didn't you read that you are a bully attacking lame Christianity that can't defend itself? You talk about cowards, well, look in the mirror, atheist OCD bozo and see one for sure. You spend all your seemingly endless free time mounting battles against the passe Pauline Christian doctrines that are not true Christianity at all but mainly the ideas of Paul. Like I told you before, pick on someone who can wipe the ground with your feeble atheist religious views.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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9/9/2014 5:46:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 4:38:35 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 9/9/2014 1:05:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
Obviously, this provides even more examples of scripture which are simply too "hot" for Christians to handle.

So what do Christians do? They can't refute it, it's in the Bible. They can't defend it without showing themselves to be barbaric monsters. So they carefully tip-toe around it, and pretend it isn't there. That's the most cowardly means possible to maintain a beliefs - just pretend the horrors behind that belief, don't exist. Hear no evil (when it's in the Bible), speak no evil (but still promote the Bible), and think no evil. But when you tell yourself a book of evil is a good moral guide, you end up adopting pure barbarity, and believing it to be morality.

Hey! Don't you read? Didn't you read that you are a bully attacking lame Christianity that can't defend itself? You talk about cowards, well, look in the mirror, atheist OCD bozo and see one for sure. You spend all your seemingly endless free time mounting battles against the passe Pauline Christian doctrines that are not true Christianity at all but mainly the ideas of Paul. Like I told you before, pick on someone who can wipe the ground with your feeble atheist religious views.

So you are the true Christian and everyone else is not?

No true Christian fallacy anyone?
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/9/2014 7:02:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 1:05:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
Obviously, this provides even more examples of scripture which are simply too "hot" for Christians to handle.

So what do Christians do? They can't refute it, it's in the Bible. They can't defend it without showing themselves to be barbaric monsters. So they carefully tip-toe around it, and pretend it isn't there. That's the most cowardly means possible to maintain a beliefs - just pretend the horrors behind that belief, don't exist. Hear no evil (when it's in the Bible), speak no evil (but still promote the Bible), and think no evil. But when you tell yourself a book of evil is a good moral guide, you end up adopting pure barbarity, and believing it to be morality.

Humph. That is a little broad don't you think? If you want to say that about certain people go ahead but you ought to watch yourself calling out the 1 billion christians on the planet. Some of them actually do know what they are talking about and I hope that I am one of them. As for see no evil, speak no evil, think no evil, let me say this. God is the intelligent being alive. End of story. There may be things in the Bible we don't agree with. I totally have some issues with some of the things that happened. The jump you have to make is to trust that He knows what he is doing. I know that God would not kill someone unless totally, entirely, and without a doubt justified. God doesn't just go "Kill em all. It'll be fun." He knows what he is talking about and just because we haven't got there yet doesn't mean that He is evil.
LostintheEcho1498
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9/9/2014 7:05:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 6:47:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:17:43 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
What a dumbask jerk. This is the level of atheist intelligence that throws that kind of defense of atheist picking on the weakest proponents of Christianity. You read the Bible too, don't you, but does that make you a fundamentalist Christian? Jesus H. Christ, go away with your silly grade school debating skills.

I do read the Bible. And it says the things fundamentalists claim. So what is your claim; that it doesn't say what it says? Or do you simply ignore those things because they seem ridiculous you?
Just out of curiosity, are you reading the fundamentalist's Bible? There are several kinds out there and reading a certain religion's version definitely gives off the idea of fundamentalism. The most unchanged version would be the King James Version. It was translated by a bunch of monks and then given to the presses(once they were invented that is).
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/9/2014 7:09:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 2:58:18 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 7:34:10 AM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:48:55 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:47:53 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:17:43 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
What a dumbask jerk. This is the level of atheist intelligence that throws that kind of defense of atheist picking on the weakest proponents of Christianity. You read the Bible too, don't you, but does that make you a fundamentalist Christian? Jesus H. Christ, go away with your silly grade school debating skills.

I do read the Bible. And it says the things fundamentalists claim. So what is your claim; that it doesn't say what it says? Or do you simply ignore those things because they seem ridiculous you?

Well, in his defense, he did read the first portion of the first chapter ... he seems to have gotten stuck after that though ...

Ouch

That's about as warm and fuzzy as he ever gets. He's still angry that he promotes beliefs which embrace slavery and rape, and hasn't moved past his days of being a hired killer.

You know I have been shown the passages that people think show slavery(entirely out of context as they don't read the whole chapter) and I have seen killing(I talk about this in the other post) but I have yet to see God justifying rape. Mind showing me that particular verse in the King James Bible?
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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9/9/2014 7:11:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 7:02:54 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 9/9/2014 1:05:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
Obviously, this provides even more examples of scripture which are simply too "hot" for Christians to handle.

So what do Christians do? They can't refute it, it's in the Bible. They can't defend it without showing themselves to be barbaric monsters. So they carefully tip-toe around it, and pretend it isn't there. That's the most cowardly means possible to maintain a beliefs - just pretend the horrors behind that belief, don't exist. Hear no evil (when it's in the Bible), speak no evil (but still promote the Bible), and think no evil. But when you tell yourself a book of evil is a good moral guide, you end up adopting pure barbarity, and believing it to be morality.

Humph. That is a little broad don't you think? If you want to say that about certain people go ahead but you ought to watch yourself calling out the 1 billion christians on the planet. Some of them actually do know what they are talking about and I hope that I am one of them. As for see no evil, speak no evil, think no evil, let me say this. God is the intelligent being alive. End of story. There may be things in the Bible we don't agree with. I totally have some issues with some of the things that happened. The jump you have to make is to trust that He knows what he is doing. I know that God would not kill someone unless totally, entirely, and without a doubt justified. God doesn't just go "Kill em all. It'll be fun." He knows what he is talking about and just because we haven't got there yet doesn't mean that He is evil.
"God is the intelligent being alive"
Meant to say God is the most intelligent being alive. Oops.