Total Posts:58|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

How did God create the Universe

Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 3:10:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's the same concept behind the knowledge that our words can actually impact the material, you can find smaller scale examples of the potential for this in the physical, but it's on a whole different level in spirit and with God.

http://www.collective-evolution.com...

http://www.collective-evolution.com...

" Ignoring the fact that consciousness obviously alters the world by action with our senses/limbs and technology. IN a set of studies done at Princeton it was found that the mind or our intention or desire can in fact alter the world directly without any other extra physical mechanisms, that is no arms legs etc. A typical experiment was of this form: there are 300 people in an audience, they are observing a computer screen which always alternates between two pictures, one of an astronaut and one of a leopard. If observed it can be seen that one picture gradually fades away to be replaced by the other one in a random fashion. By random this means that you never know when the other picture will start to appear. They then asked the audience which of the two pictures they prefer, most said the astronaut. They were then told to concentrate on wanting to see only the astronaut. Concentrating it was found that the pictures continued to alternate randomly until after a few minutes the astronaut appeared and stayed there, and stayed, and stayed for minutes on end without alternating to the other picture. So, consciousness can influence the physical world provided there is a random element involved so that a tiny influence can effect a change."

http://www.ted.com...

Hebrews 11
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 3:15:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 3:10:28 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
It's the same concept behind the knowledge that our words can actually impact the material, you can find smaller scale examples of the potential for this in the physical, but it's on a whole different level in spirit and with God.

http://www.collective-evolution.com...


http://www.collective-evolution.com...

" Ignoring the fact that consciousness obviously alters the world by action with our senses/limbs and technology. IN a set of studies done at Princeton it was found that the mind or our intention or desire can in fact alter the world directly without any other extra physical mechanisms, that is no arms legs etc. A typical experiment was of this form: there are 300 people in an audience, they are observing a computer screen which always alternates between two pictures, one of an astronaut and one of a leopard. If observed it can be seen that one picture gradually fades away to be replaced by the other one in a random fashion. By random this means that you never know when the other picture will start to appear. They then asked the audience which of the two pictures they prefer, most said the astronaut. They were then told to concentrate on wanting to see only the astronaut. Concentrating it was found that the pictures continued to alternate randomly until after a few minutes the astronaut appeared and stayed there, and stayed, and stayed for minutes on end without alternating to the other picture. So, consciousness can influence the physical world provided there is a random element involved so that a tiny influence can effect a change."

http://www.ted.com...

Hebrews 11
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

That's an interesting assertion. I'll have to do some more investigation.

However, my question was; by what mechanism was God's speech converted into the universe.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 3:58:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 3:15:03 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:10:28 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
It's the same concept behind the knowledge that our words can actually impact the material, you can find smaller scale examples of the potential for this in the physical, but it's on a whole different level in spirit and with God.

http://www.collective-evolution.com...


http://www.collective-evolution.com...

" Ignoring the fact that consciousness obviously alters the world by action with our senses/limbs and technology. IN a set of studies done at Princeton it was found that the mind or our intention or desire can in fact alter the world directly without any other extra physical mechanisms, that is no arms legs etc. A typical experiment was of this form: there are 300 people in an audience, they are observing a computer screen which always alternates between two pictures, one of an astronaut and one of a leopard. If observed it can be seen that one picture gradually fades away to be replaced by the other one in a random fashion. By random this means that you never know when the other picture will start to appear. They then asked the audience which of the two pictures they prefer, most said the astronaut. They were then told to concentrate on wanting to see only the astronaut. Concentrating it was found that the pictures continued to alternate randomly until after a few minutes the astronaut appeared and stayed there, and stayed, and stayed for minutes on end without alternating to the other picture. So, consciousness can influence the physical world provided there is a random element involved so that a tiny influence can effect a change."

http://www.ted.com...

Hebrews 11
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

That's an interesting assertion. I'll have to do some more investigation.

However, my question was; by what mechanism was God's speech converted into the universe.

Yes excuse me, If we are starting from the assumption that God, matter or energy exist then the mechanism is movement (thought), vibration, energy. From thought to word to movement.
If I'm misunderstanding your question then forgive me my time on here is limited.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 5:11:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

There IS NO mechanism.

God does not NEED a MECHANISM to bring things into existence.

He DID simply speak it into existence.

You may not LIKE that answer, but that IS the answer.

Get over it, you little frustrated imp.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 5:36:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 5:11:31 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

There IS NO mechanism.

God does not NEED a MECHANISM to bring things into existence.

He DID simply speak it into existence.

You may not LIKE that answer, but that IS the answer.

Get over it, you little frustrated imp.

"Speak" IS the mechanism. From the mind of God to His words to movement, and of course movement to energy to matter. Yes God spoke it.

The links I provided illustrate that scientifically.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 5:50:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 5:11:31 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

There IS NO mechanism.

God does not NEED a MECHANISM to bring things into existence.

He DID simply speak it into existence.

You may not LIKE that answer, but that IS the answer.

Get over it, you little frustrated imp.

That's not an answer. It's the lack of an answer.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 6:02:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 5:50:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:11:31 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

There IS NO mechanism.

God does not NEED a MECHANISM to bring things into existence.

He DID simply speak it into existence.

You may not LIKE that answer, but that IS the answer.

Get over it, you little frustrated imp.

That's not an answer. It's the lack of an answer.

Well, it's the only answer you'll ever get.

And if you won't BOW to it and embrace it willingly, God will either MAKE you willing, or he'll cast you into Hell.

One way or another, you WILL BOW to GOD, and you will confess that he spoke all things into existence.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 6:10:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 6:02:26 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:50:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:11:31 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

There IS NO mechanism.

God does not NEED a MECHANISM to bring things into existence.

He DID simply speak it into existence.

You may not LIKE that answer, but that IS the answer.

Get over it, you little frustrated imp.

That's not an answer. It's the lack of an answer.

Well, it's the only answer you'll ever get.

And if you won't BOW to it and embrace it willingly, God will either MAKE you willing, or he'll cast you into Hell.

One way or another, you WILL BOW to GOD, and you will confess that he spoke all things into existence.

Yeah no, that made zero sense. Nothing I said contradicts that God "spoke" lol
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 6:12:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 6:10:55 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 9/9/2014 6:02:26 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:50:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:11:31 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

There IS NO mechanism.

God does not NEED a MECHANISM to bring things into existence.

He DID simply speak it into existence.

You may not LIKE that answer, but that IS the answer.

Get over it, you little frustrated imp.

That's not an answer. It's the lack of an answer.

Well, it's the only answer you'll ever get.

And if you won't BOW to it and embrace it willingly, God will either MAKE you willing, or he'll cast you into Hell.

One way or another, you WILL BOW to GOD, and you will confess that he spoke all things into existence.

Yeah no, that made zero sense. Nothing I said contradicts that God "spoke" lol

My fault, I see that was intended for Beastt.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 6:15:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 6:10:55 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 9/9/2014 6:02:26 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:50:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:11:31 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

There IS NO mechanism.

God does not NEED a MECHANISM to bring things into existence.

He DID simply speak it into existence.

You may not LIKE that answer, but that IS the answer.

Get over it, you little frustrated imp.

That's not an answer. It's the lack of an answer.

Well, it's the only answer you'll ever get.

And if you won't BOW to it and embrace it willingly, God will either MAKE you willing, or he'll cast you into Hell.

One way or another, you WILL BOW to GOD, and you will confess that he spoke all things into existence.

Yeah no, that made zero sense. Nothing I said contradicts that God "spoke" lol

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Beastt.

I haven't even bothered to read your post, nor do I plan to.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 6:18:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 6:15:34 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 6:10:55 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 9/9/2014 6:02:26 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:50:20 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 5:11:31 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

There IS NO mechanism.

God does not NEED a MECHANISM to bring things into existence.

He DID simply speak it into existence.

You may not LIKE that answer, but that IS the answer.

Get over it, you little frustrated imp.

That's not an answer. It's the lack of an answer.

Well, it's the only answer you'll ever get.

And if you won't BOW to it and embrace it willingly, God will either MAKE you willing, or he'll cast you into Hell.

One way or another, you WILL BOW to GOD, and you will confess that he spoke all things into existence.

Yeah no, that made zero sense. Nothing I said contradicts that God "spoke" lol

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Beastt.

I haven't even bothered to read your post, nor do I plan to.

I wouldn't think you would, you're a robot.
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 6:29:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is. (Quran 2:117)

God is the efficient cause, in which he actualizes his will. The material causes and mechanism are to be explored inductively through observation or the scientific method for example.
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 6:38:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

Mechanisms are irrelevant.

God simply spoke and it was.

Psalm 33:6-9,

6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;
He lays up the deep in storehouses.

8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.
9 For He spoke, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast.


There's your answer.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 6:43:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
God made the universe because I told him: you wanna live fancy? Live in a big mansion? Party in France? You better work! BITCH. (8)

And he did.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 10:56:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 6:38:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

Mechanisms are irrelevant.

God simply spoke and it was.

Psalm 33:6-9,

6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;
He lays up the deep in storehouses.

8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.
9 For He spoke, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast.


There's your answer.

There is no mechanism offered in that scripture. If you think it appropriate to know the mechanisms behind big-bang, abiogenesis and evolution, why are you so content to accept "Goddidit" as an explanation?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2014 11:29:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 10:56:05 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 6:38:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

Mechanisms are irrelevant.

God simply spoke and it was.

Psalm 33:6-9,

6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;
He lays up the deep in storehouses.

8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.
9 For He spoke, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast.


There's your answer.

There is no mechanism offered in that scripture. If you think it appropriate to know the mechanisms behind big-bang, abiogenesis and evolution, why are you so content to accept "Goddidit" as an explanation?

I KNOW there's no mechanism offered in that Scripture.
I wasn't trying to offer any.

I've already stated at least three times in this thread that there IS NO mechanism behind it. God simply SPOKE it all into existence.

Furthermore, I DON'T "think it appropriate to know the mechanisms behind big-bang, abiogenesis and evolution." I couldn't care less about that pseudo-scientific drivel.

And, yes, I'm quite content with the fact that God is in control of everything, even the pain and suffering that goes on in the world.

I feel NO NEED to lash out in anger against God because things are not always what I want them to be.

MOST ADULTS, whether Christian or not, have learned to ACCEPT that life is sometimes hard, and that you can't always have things your way.

You, apparently have not developed that far.
You are suffering from some kind of arrested development.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 6:44:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 11:29:39 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 10:56:05 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/9/2014 6:38:18 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

Mechanisms are irrelevant.

God simply spoke and it was.

Psalm 33:6-9,

6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap;
He lays up the deep in storehouses.

8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.
9 For He spoke, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast.


There's your answer.

There is no mechanism offered in that scripture. If you think it appropriate to know the mechanisms behind big-bang, abiogenesis and evolution, why are you so content to accept "Goddidit" as an explanation?

I KNOW there's no mechanism offered in that Scripture.
I wasn't trying to offer any.

I've already stated at least three times in this thread that there IS NO mechanism behind it. God simply SPOKE it all into existence.

Furthermore, I DON'T "think it appropriate to know the mechanisms behind big-bang, abiogenesis and evolution." I couldn't care less about that pseudo-scientific drivel.

And, yes, I'm quite content with the fact that God is in control of everything, even the pain and suffering that goes on in the world.

I feel NO NEED to lash out in anger against God because things are not always what I want them to be.

MOST ADULTS, whether Christian or not, have learned to ACCEPT that life is sometimes hard, and that you can't always have things your way.

You, apparently have not developed that far.
You are suffering from some kind of arrested development.

But if God is in control of "everything" then the "arrested development" that Beastt is suffering from is from the hand of "god", thereby you have insulted the Lord instead lol.
Oh and God also called you a robot earlier.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 7:41:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 6:29:15 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is. (Quran 2:117)

God is the efficient cause, in which he actualizes his will. The material causes and mechanism are to be explored inductively through observation or the scientific method for example.

It's just magic.........................................................see?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 9:34:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 7:29:48 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
God created the universe by investing it with potentiality.

How. Theists always hunt for the mechanisms when natural processes are implicated. And that's good. Not wanting to know the mechanisms comes from being afraid that you're wrong.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 12:01:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

To ask HOW God made the universe is to imply and presuppose that God used physical means to make a physical universe . That's silly. There is no HOW to the making of the universe: only skeptic materialists will ask that question or ignorant theists. By the power of His will God made the material world out of nothing. That's all you need to know whether you like it or not.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 12:51:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 9:34:45 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 7:29:48 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
God created the universe by investing it with potentiality.

How.

By his will or consciousness.

Consciousness is something which the naturalistic ontology is bankrupt in explaining, but it can be proven to have certain affects upon the body. These effects (material affects) writ large, are how the Creator made the cosmos.
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 12:57:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

One important point here. If he is speaking something into existence then there is sound energy involved. But sound can't be produced by something described the Bible. Also Christians nowadays say that God is outside space and time. How exactly did that sound travel anywhere outside the alleged God's mouth. Secondly energy is not a supernatural thing.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 1:01:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 12:57:37 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

One important point here. If he is speaking something into existence then there is sound energy involved. But sound can't be produced by something described the Bible. Also Christians nowadays say that God is outside space and time. How exactly did that sound travel anywhere outside the alleged God's mouth. Secondly energy is not a supernatural thing.

Very solid points. Theists love to jump all over the place, from a God who has no body, but speaks with a mouth, to generate sound waves which propagate without a medium through which to travel, and carry energy which flows from a non-physical entity (even though energy IS physical), to create that which cannot be created.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 1:05:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 12:01:31 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

To ask HOW God made the universe is to imply and presuppose that God used physical means to make a physical universe . That's silly. There is no HOW to the making of the universe: only skeptic materialists will ask that question or ignorant theists. By the power of His will God made the material world out of nothing. That's all you need to know whether you like it or not.

No, that's no different than saying "it was magic". You can do better. You can be more honest. You can be less cowardly.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 1:33:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 1:05:52 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 12:01:31 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

To ask HOW God made the universe is to imply and presuppose that God used physical means to make a physical universe . That's silly. There is no HOW to the making of the universe: only skeptic materialists will ask that question or ignorant theists. By the power of His will God made the material world out of nothing. That's all you need to know whether you like it or not.

No, that's no different than saying "it was magic". You can do better. You can be more honest. You can be less cowardly.

Yeah that is exactly what the Bible was trying to tell its followers originally. Let there be light and there was light. Sounds more like a magic trick. Rabbit come out of the hat. Just to sound powerful the Bible has given us something to laugh at and throw it in the face of apologetics.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 1:50:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

He created the universe using his exterior and inferior material energy, and then constructed it through Cymatics, which is when geometrical shapes are formed when sound passes through media, so yes, he literally spoke it into existence, using Spiritual sound vibration. Again Cymatics.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 2:00:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 1:50:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

He created the universe using his exterior and inferior material energy, and then constructed it through Cymatics, which is when geometrical shapes are formed when sound passes through media, so yes, he literally spoke it into existence, using Spiritual sound vibration. Again Cymatics.

This doesn't work. You can't pass sound (vibrations), through a medium, to create that medium. You can't pass the vibrations until the medium exists. The vibrations require a medium through which to propagate. God can't use energy unless it exists. If the energy comes from God himself, then God is physical - energy is physical.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/10/2014 2:08:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 2:00:59 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 1:50:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:10:29 PM, Beastt wrote:
And that doesn't mean "he spoke it into existence" is an appropriate answer. One can say that the man on stage causes a lady to disappear by tapping his magic wand on the box he placed her in, and saying some magic words. That doesn't explain the mechanisms employed.

Creationists (AKA: Christians - since all Christians attribute existence of the universe to God), insist that secular explanations be provided to the slightest detail, yet tend to believe that "Goddidit" is sufficient to support their claims. If you want to now what caused big-bang, what caused that which caused big-bang, and how each works, then it's only fair that you explain how God converted his own words (talking to himself), into the universe.

He created the universe using his exterior and inferior material energy, and then constructed it through Cymatics, which is when geometrical shapes are formed when sound passes through media, so yes, he literally spoke it into existence, using Spiritual sound vibration. Again Cymatics.

This doesn't work. You can't pass sound (vibrations), through a medium, to create that medium. You can't pass the vibrations until the medium exists. The vibrations require a medium through which to propagate. God can't use energy unless it exists. If the energy comes from God himself, then God is physical - energy is physical.

Exactly, read my comment again, His exterior and inferior material energy makes up the material cosmic manifestation, of which he can withdraw into a singularity or expand infinitely.