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Second law of thermodynamics doesn't exist

Benshapiro
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9/10/2014 9:55:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Since we live on earth, and earth is not an isolated system, the second law doesn't apply to us. If you leave coffee on the table after 30 mins expect it to be just as hot. Sell your refrigerator because food will never spoil. In fact, biological degradation doesn't exist at all either meaning that we all now can expect eternal life. The sun will offset the entropy that occurs that cools this coffee, that rots this food, and that eventually kills us. Good thing this sun classifies us as an open system and banishes the second law.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/10/2014 10:22:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 9:55:48 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Since we live on earth, and earth is not an isolated system, the second law doesn't apply to us. If you leave coffee on the table after 30 mins expect it to be just as hot. Sell your refrigerator because food will never spoil. In fact, biological degradation doesn't exist at all either meaning that we all now can expect eternal life. The sun will offset the entropy that occurs that cools this coffee, that rots this food, and that eventually kills us. Good thing this sun classifies us as an open system and banishes the second law.

If you keep applying heat to the coffee (AKA: feeding thermal energy into the system), then it will remain just as hot.

I am simply stunned that so many adults have this much difficulty understanding that energy is required to slow or reverse entropy. If you don't understand, consider yourself less than intelligent.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/10/2014 11:30:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?

Yes
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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9/10/2014 11:43:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 11:30:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?

Yes

So organisms that derive energy from digesting food evolved over billions of years in an upwardly-complex gradient while subjected to the inevitable second law of thermodynamics?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/10/2014 11:55:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 11:43:23 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:30:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?

Yes

So organisms that derive energy from digesting food evolved over billions of years in an upwardly-complex gradient while subjected to the inevitable second law of thermodynamics?

Not necessarily. Evolution doesn't necessarily seek the most complex option. Evolution seeks the option which increases odds for reproduction. Sometimes that means greater complexity. Other times it means lesser complexity.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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9/11/2014 12:01:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 11:55:10 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:43:23 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:30:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?

Yes

So organisms that derive energy from digesting food evolved over billions of years in an upwardly-complex gradient while subjected to the inevitable second law of thermodynamics?

Not necessarily. Evolution doesn't necessarily seek the most complex option. Evolution seeks the option which increases odds for reproduction. Sometimes that means greater complexity. Other times it means lesser complexity.

If all of life began from simple cellular organisms, how hasn't evolution resulted in an upwardly-complex energy gradient? I'm not talking about it seeking out complex vs. non-complex organisms, I'm saying the increasingly complex chemical compounds needed for evolving more advanced organisms did so while being subjected to the second law of thermodynamics. Right?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/11/2014 12:31:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 12:01:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:55:10 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:43:23 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:30:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?

Yes

So organisms that derive energy from digesting food evolved over billions of years in an upwardly-complex gradient while subjected to the inevitable second law of thermodynamics?

Not necessarily. Evolution doesn't necessarily seek the most complex option. Evolution seeks the option which increases odds for reproduction. Sometimes that means greater complexity. Other times it means lesser complexity.

If all of life began from simple cellular organisms, how hasn't evolution resulted in an upwardly-complex energy gradient? I'm not talking about it seeking out complex vs. non-complex organisms, I'm saying the increasingly complex chemical compounds needed for evolving more advanced organisms did so while being subjected to the second law of thermodynamics. Right?

From where do you derive the idea that there needs to be an upwardly complex energy gradient? Some of the most efficient forms of energy are just simple sugars. What form of energy are you suggesting should be necessary?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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9/11/2014 12:41:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 12:31:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:01:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:55:10 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:43:23 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:30:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?

Yes

So organisms that derive energy from digesting food evolved over billions of years in an upwardly-complex gradient while subjected to the inevitable second law of thermodynamics?

Not necessarily. Evolution doesn't necessarily seek the most complex option. Evolution seeks the option which increases odds for reproduction. Sometimes that means greater complexity. Other times it means lesser complexity.

If all of life began from simple cellular organisms, how hasn't evolution resulted in an upwardly-complex energy gradient? I'm not talking about it seeking out complex vs. non-complex organisms, I'm saying the increasingly complex chemical compounds needed for evolving more advanced organisms did so while being subjected to the second law of thermodynamics. Right?

From where do you derive the idea that there needs to be an upwardly complex energy gradient? Some of the most efficient forms of energy are just simple sugars. What form of energy are you suggesting should be necessary?

Increasingly complex chemical compounds that are necessary for evolving organisms require an increase in usable energy. How is the amount of usable energy ever increasing when the second law is decreasing the amount of usable energy for the chemical compounds necessary to evolve organisms?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/11/2014 1:10:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 12:41:00 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:31:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:01:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:55:10 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:43:23 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:30:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?

Yes

So organisms that derive energy from digesting food evolved over billions of years in an upwardly-complex gradient while subjected to the inevitable second law of thermodynamics?

Not necessarily. Evolution doesn't necessarily seek the most complex option. Evolution seeks the option which increases odds for reproduction. Sometimes that means greater complexity. Other times it means lesser complexity.

If all of life began from simple cellular organisms, how hasn't evolution resulted in an upwardly-complex energy gradient? I'm not talking about it seeking out complex vs. non-complex organisms, I'm saying the increasingly complex chemical compounds needed for evolving more advanced organisms did so while being subjected to the second law of thermodynamics. Right?

From where do you derive the idea that there needs to be an upwardly complex energy gradient? Some of the most efficient forms of energy are just simple sugars. What form of energy are you suggesting should be necessary?

Increasingly complex chemical compounds that are necessary for evolving organisms require an increase in usable energy. How is the amount of usable energy ever increasing when the second law is decreasing the amount of usable energy for the chemical compounds necessary to evolve organisms?

What part of the second law claims that usable energy for chemical compounds is decreasing?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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9/11/2014 1:30:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 1:10:02 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:41:00 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:31:09 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:01:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:55:10 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:43:23 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:30:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:21:49 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:16:45 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:13:26 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/10/2014 11:07:44 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/10/2014 10:27:41 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
So what I really need to do, is have my coffee cup, myself, and my groceries sitting out in the sun to harness the thermal energy needed to grant me eternal life, food, and hot coffee?

That would be one way to harness the energy flow provided to Earth which causes it not to be an isolated system. Of course, you don't don't have to sit in the sun yourself. You consume food which contains energy harnessed from the sun. And obviously, in some cases you want to prevent the organisms which cause your food to decay, from obtaining the energy they need to thrive, which is why you refrigerate the food, thereby lowering the amount of energy available to the microbes, molds, etc., to thrive, multiply and break-down your food.

Does using the sun's energy kept in a food source make me impervious to the 2LoT as long as I keep eating?

No. No one said it made you impervious to entropy. But it can slow the process quite dramatically. Compare a person who never eats (because food contains energy stored from the sun), to one who eats regularly. Which one will be over-taken by entropy faster?

The one who doesn't eat, supposing he dies of starvation first. So what you're saying here, is that the 2LoT is inevitable in human bodies but that we can manage to slow the process down?

Yes

So organisms that derive energy from digesting food evolved over billions of years in an upwardly-complex gradient while subjected to the inevitable second law of thermodynamics?

Not necessarily. Evolution doesn't necessarily seek the most complex option. Evolution seeks the option which increases odds for reproduction. Sometimes that means greater complexity. Other times it means lesser complexity.

If all of life began from simple cellular organisms, how hasn't evolution resulted in an upwardly-complex energy gradient? I'm not talking about it seeking out complex vs. non-complex organisms, I'm saying the increasingly complex chemical compounds needed for evolving more advanced organisms did so while being subjected to the second law of thermodynamics. Right?

From where do you derive the idea that there needs to be an upwardly complex energy gradient? Some of the most efficient forms of energy are just simple sugars. What form of energy are you suggesting should be necessary?

Increasingly complex chemical compounds that are necessary for evolving organisms require an increase in usable energy. How is the amount of usable energy ever increasing when the second law is decreasing the amount of usable energy for the chemical compounds necessary to evolve organisms?

What part of the second law claims that usable energy for chemical compounds is decreasing?

The second law establishes that energy tends towards entropy in an isolated system. We've established during our discussion that living organisms are always tending towards entropy. So why would living organisms expect to see a long run increase in usable energy necessary for building increasingly complex chemical compounds if all energy in these organisms is tending to become more unusable?