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Theists, you are probably going to Hell

Envisage
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9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/11/2014 9:20:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

Not really.

Again, I cannot speak for 'all Christians' on this and clearly there are some that disagree and disagree to some extent.

God's Plan of Salvation - its a Plan.

So, according to the theology, it was the creation of humans (and presumably other worlds) that caused Satan and his minions to rebel. He lost and that left 'us' - all of us, who chose the side of God. We chose, in our etenral form, to come to Earth and recieve a physical body, to be separated from God that we may 'learn'.

This is my reading of scripture, but that 'learn' in my opinion was to know right from wrong ourselves - that we do not follow God because he is God, but because he is RIGHT. We come to this earth and can willingly disobey him. We can lie, for example, and upon being caught see that lying is ... not so good. Ergo, we internalize the rule as our own, rather than just a commandment to be obeyed by God. It is in a sense, OUR ethic as well as God's - it a way to, as God reveals, become MORE like him.

The issue arises in the return. No unclean thing can dwell in the prescence of God - and Sin is what separates that. How then do you return to God? That is where Jesus and grace comes in. You can err, indeed err quite badly, but can return to Heavenly Father provided you repent of the sins. The disagreement is about where that repetence opportunity ends - once you are dead ... your eternal soul, having previously chosen God is now forveer caste aside? Makes no sense.

Grace covers us, and when we go for 'judgement' we are forgiven. There is one exception - that of the unpradonable sin. If you KNOW God, and choose to reject him anyway ... you will be allowed you choice and will dwell in outer darkness, only then will you be cut off from God. There are debates about the level of which this happens, for some, ther is no chance, Catholics pergatory is one aspect, Mormons believe even after death you can Baptize people, etc. Depending on where you fall in the spectrum, there appears to be a way of repairing damage we do to ourselves down here save the exception of demanding you be separated from God.

Its a bit difficult to piece together the theology, because there is scant written about it, but the one common denominator is that Jesus is the Savior. That a God would send you to this earth to 'learn' at the risk of Hell seems ... uncharacteristic for a loving God. I strongly suspect that there is some mechanism of return through Christ, if those specifics are not full known.

Even the most stern atheist, a Hindu, a Pagan, etc. (Even us most way word Christians) if revaled the full weight of God would find it hard to deny him and accept his mercy. There are grievous sins, but being honestly wrong is not a grievous sin. I doubt that many atheists, or the various Christians, will be condmened to Hell - lest they choose us.

So long as a man is earnest seeking God, I doubt very seriously that the God I have come to know and understand would turn any away.

Besides, as we read scripture, we see Hell barely mentioned. When it is, its basically the acknowledgement that it exists and its not a nice place. The VAST majority of scripture is aimed at bringing wisdom and insight, to convince through reason, insight, love and mercy. God wants us to choose right because it is right, not, as atheists accurately point out, because we 'fear' Hell or punishment.

We are all God's children, and anyone who has been a parent knows, you don't give up on your children - EVER. Its terminology such 'Children of God' that helps us understand just what God is willing to do for us. Its not condemn us to hell because we are diverse of opinion.
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
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9/11/2014 9:39:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 9:20:44 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

Not really.

Again, I cannot speak for 'all Christians' on this and clearly there are some that disagree and disagree to some extent.

God's Plan of Salvation - its a Plan.

So, according to the theology, it was the creation of humans (and presumably other worlds) that caused Satan and his minions to rebel. He lost and that left 'us' - all of us, who chose the side of God. We chose, in our etenral form, to come to Earth and recieve a physical body, to be separated from God that we may 'learn'.

This is my reading of scripture, but that 'learn' in my opinion was to know right from wrong ourselves - that we do not follow God because he is God, but because he is RIGHT. We come to this earth and can willingly disobey him. We can lie, for example, and upon being caught see that lying is ... not so good. Ergo, we internalize the rule as our own, rather than just a commandment to be obeyed by God. It is in a sense, OUR ethic as well as God's - it a way to, as God reveals, become MORE like him.

The issue arises in the return. No unclean thing can dwell in the prescence of God - and Sin is what separates that. How then do you return to God? That is where Jesus and grace comes in. You can err, indeed err quite badly, but can return to Heavenly Father provided you repent of the sins. The disagreement is about where that repetence opportunity ends - once you are dead ... your eternal soul, having previously chosen God is now forveer caste aside? Makes no sense.

Grace covers us, and when we go for 'judgement' we are forgiven. There is one exception - that of the unpradonable sin. If you KNOW God, and choose to reject him anyway ... you will be allowed you choice and will dwell in outer darkness, only then will you be cut off from God. There are debates about the level of which this happens, for some, ther is no chance, Catholics pergatory is one aspect, Mormons believe even after death you can Baptize people, etc. Depending on where you fall in the spectrum, there appears to be a way of repairing damage we do to ourselves down here save the exception of demanding you be separated from God.

Its a bit difficult to piece together the theology, because there is scant written about it, but the one common denominator is that Jesus is the Savior. That a God would send you to this earth to 'learn' at the risk of Hell seems ... uncharacteristic for a loving God. I strongly suspect that there is some mechanism of return through Christ, if those specifics are not full known.

Even the most stern atheist, a Hindu, a Pagan, etc. (Even us most way word Christians) if revaled the full weight of God would find it hard to deny him and accept his mercy. There are grievous sins, but being honestly wrong is not a grievous sin. I doubt that many atheists, or the various Christians, will be condmened to Hell - lest they choose us.

So long as a man is earnest seeking God, I doubt very seriously that the God I have come to know and understand would turn any away.

Besides, as we read scripture, we see Hell barely mentioned. When it is, its basically the acknowledgement that it exists and its not a nice place. The VAST majority of scripture is aimed at bringing wisdom and insight, to convince through reason, insight, love and mercy. God wants us to choose right because it is right, not, as atheists accurately point out, because we 'fear' Hell or punishment.

We are all God's children, and anyone who has been a parent knows, you don't give up on your children - EVER. Its terminology such 'Children of God' that helps us understand just what God is willing to do for us. Its not condemn us to hell because we are diverse of opinion.

So here's a question.

What if on judgment day you ask this god whether all the stories written about him are true and he answers yes, would you still worship him for eternity?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,373
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9/11/2014 9:43:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.


Most of the largest religions send people to Hell? What are you basing this figure on?
bulproof
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9/11/2014 9:48:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 9:43:16 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.


Most of the largest religions send people to Hell? What are you basing this figure on?

The claims of the religions.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Toviyah
Posts: 88
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9/11/2014 9:55:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.
I think you know better than that, envy :)
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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9/11/2014 10:45:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

Obviously, our one true god only wants his 'chosen' people to go to heaven.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/11/2014 11:01:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

Especially Muslims. Only 1 out of their 71 sects gets to have life out of hell.
I'm so fancy, you already know.
numberwang
Posts: 1,917
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9/11/2014 12:01:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

Theyd probably say its wiser to make one bad guess than Nooo guess at all.

Unrelated question, how do I fix my autocorrect? Literally the only word it completes/corrects is the word "no", which it corrects to Nooo. Whats up with that?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/11/2014 12:16:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 9:20:44 AM, neutral wrote:


God's Plan of Salvation - its a Plan.
...of extortion.

If you use a threat (such as Hell) to coerce what you want (such as belief) from someone, that's extortion.

Salvation is when you save someone from a threat you didn't impose.

(According to Christian doctrine.)
God created humans.
God created Satan.
God created Hell.
God created damnation for humans.

So God is placing you in peril, and using that threat to force you into giving him what he wants. That's EXACTLY what a mugger does when he puts a gun to your head and demands your wallet. A mugger is not your "savior".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
johnlubba
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9/11/2014 1:43:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

My religion ( The Hare Krisna philosophy ) doesn't claim that, It claims that whatever religion you belong to ( An authorized and established religion of the land ) you should practices it's principles and follow it's regulations and seek God and you will become successful. Therefore, All theists are going to heaven according to Vedic philosophy. Which makes the most sense to me.
Shadow-Dragon
Posts: 55
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9/11/2014 2:08:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Incorrect as usual, Atheist.

Although people may be confused, people who are never given the chance to believe in God will be sent to purgatory or given the choice in their afterlife.

However, people like atheists, who argue against God and with theists, may find a tougher life after death. No one is bashing you as ignorant, so why bash theists? If you think their beliefs are stupid, why even bother trying to, in your opinion, help them or teach them?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/11/2014 10:43:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 2:08:20 PM, Shadow-Dragon wrote:
Incorrect as usual, Atheist.

Although people may be confused, people who are never given the chance to believe in God will be sent to purgatory or given the choice in their afterlife.

However, people like atheists, who argue against God and with theists, may find a tougher life after death. No one is bashing you as ignorant, so why bash theists? If you think their beliefs are stupid, why even bother trying to, in your opinion, help them or teach them?

Because we're tired of being persecuted and controlled by the least intelligent members of society.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
intellectuallyprimitive
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9/11/2014 11:09:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 2:08:20 PM, Shadow-Dragon wrote:
Incorrect as usual, Atheist.

Although people may be confused, people who are never given the chance to believe in God will be sent to purgatory or given the choice in their afterlife.

However, people like atheists, who argue against God and with theists, may find a tougher life after death. No one is bashing you as ignorant, so why bash theists? If you think their beliefs are stupid, why even bother trying to, in your opinion, help them or teach them?

May find a tougher life after death. That statement is a bit bold don't you think?
Truth_seeker
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9/11/2014 11:37:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 1:43:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

My religion ( The Hare Krisna philosophy ) doesn't claim that, It claims that whatever religion you belong to ( An authorized and established religion of the land ) you should practices it's principles and follow it's regulations and seek God and you will become successful. Therefore, All theists are going to heaven according to Vedic philosophy. Which makes the most sense to me.

I tell those who make such propositions as these that not all religions work the same way. It's logically flawed to infer that because Christianity has certain principles of living that it also applies to another religion such as Taoism.
neutral
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9/12/2014 4:02:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 12:16:03 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 9/11/2014 9:20:44 AM, neutral wrote:


God's Plan of Salvation - its a Plan.
...of extortion.

If you use a threat (such as Hell) to coerce what you want (such as belief) from someone, that's extortion.

Salvation is when you save someone from a threat you didn't impose.

(According to Christian doctrine.)
God created humans.
God created Satan.
God created Hell.
God created damnation for humans.

So God is placing you in peril, and using that threat to force you into giving him what he wants. That's EXACTLY what a mugger does when he puts a gun to your head and demands your wallet. A mugger is not your "savior".

As Creator of all things, he also created Heaven, Mercy, Justice, Forgiveness, Love, etc.

So you ignore all of that is order to be 'threatened' when somoene says, "there are consequences for our actions, both good and bad."

Stamenet fo simple reality, "Yes, teer are bad people out there, but the vast majority are good - be open and honest, and wary of the pernicious."

These are statements that every parent makes to a child, and yet we see the twist into the most usupportable and henious interpretatiopn possible. This is precisely what the Father of Lies and his minions do ... we shuold not be surprised to see these kinds of antics - "Yeah, Yeah, all that good stuff is well and good ... pay no heed, but that HELL thing you merely concede exists! Its a direct threat to ME - EVEN if only I can choose to be there!"

Garvity exists to. If you jump off a cliff of your own volition, that will hurt too. Acknoweldging that is not a threat - its statement of reality. Terrible stuff that.
neutral
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9/12/2014 4:05:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 11:37:56 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 9/11/2014 1:43:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

My religion ( The Hare Krisna philosophy ) doesn't claim that, It claims that whatever religion you belong to ( An authorized and established religion of the land ) you should practices it's principles and follow it's regulations and seek God and you will become successful. Therefore, All theists are going to heaven according to Vedic philosophy. Which makes the most sense to me.

I tell those who make such propositions as these that not all religions work the same way. It's logically flawed to infer that because Christianity has certain principles of living that it also applies to another religion such as Taoism.

Its not a logically flawed inferrence if indeed the principles overlap - and in many cases they do. Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well. It just plain makes sense.
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
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9/12/2014 6:29:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/12/2014 4:05:13 AM, neutral wrote:
Its not a logically flawed inferrence if indeed the principles overlap - and in many cases they do. Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well. It just plain makes sense.

Christian theology claims that the only way to god/heaven is through Christ. Any religion or theology or philosophy that contradicts that theology naturally results in the failure of that person to reach god or heaven.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
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9/12/2014 7:03:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/12/2014 6:29:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/12/2014 4:05:13 AM, neutral wrote:
Its not a logically flawed inferrence if indeed the principles overlap - and in many cases they do. Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well. It just plain makes sense.

Christian theology claims that the only way to god/heaven is through Christ. Any religion or theology or philosophy that contradicts that theology naturally results in the failure of that person to reach god or heaven.

Thanks for fundamentally misreading everything I wrote.

Again BB, why you do this, I have no idea.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/12/2014 7:54:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

By this logic, you are 100% likely to go to Hell.
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bulproof
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9/12/2014 9:42:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/12/2014 7:03:25 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/12/2014 6:29:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/12/2014 4:05:13 AM, neutral wrote:
Its not a logically flawed inferrence if indeed the principles overlap - and in many cases they do. Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well. It just plain makes sense.

Christian theology claims that the only way to god/heaven is through Christ. Any religion or theology or philosophy that contradicts that theology naturally results in the failure of that person to reach god or heaven.

Thanks for fundamentally misreading everything I wrote.

Again BB, why you do this, I have no idea.

What are you talking about?

I asked a question regarding your contention here:
Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well.

Is god's wisdom the message that only those who follow christ will come to god/heaven?

If so then your claim is specious, god's wisdom is not practicable and testable and cannot in anyway be found outside christianity.

If christ is the only pathway to god then anyone who doesn't follow that pathway is doomed to hell, according to christian theology.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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9/12/2014 9:56:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

Of course we are. As all true Christians know, all who die before Armageddon go to the biblical hell and remain there until the resurrection.

Fortunately it isn't the place of torment that Apostate Christianity make it out to be, in fact it ios a place of complete non existence, except in the mind of God who will, in the resurrection, place our personalities and memories in brand new bodies with all the advantages and prospects that were originally put before Adam and Eve.

That is my hope because I accept completely unadulterated scriptural truth.
neutral
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9/12/2014 10:07:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/12/2014 9:42:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/12/2014 7:03:25 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/12/2014 6:29:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/12/2014 4:05:13 AM, neutral wrote:
Its not a logically flawed inferrence if indeed the principles overlap - and in many cases they do. Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well. It just plain makes sense.

Christian theology claims that the only way to god/heaven is through Christ. Any religion or theology or philosophy that contradicts that theology naturally results in the failure of that person to reach god or heaven.

Thanks for fundamentally misreading everything I wrote.

Again BB, why you do this, I have no idea.

What are you talking about?

I asked a question regarding your contention here:
Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well.

Is god's wisdom the message that only those who follow christ will come to god/heaven?

If so then your claim is specious, god's wisdom is not practicable and testable and cannot in anyway be found outside christianity.

If christ is the only pathway to god then anyone who doesn't follow that pathway is doomed to hell, according to christian theology.

Again, when you understand it well enough to actually disagree with what I stated rather than fundamentally misunderstand what I said, and what our theology says, which has nothing whatsoever to do with whether other people might agree with some of the things we say, but not all, then I might assume that your intent is not simply flame bait and utter intransigence.

The role of Christ, in not the totality of Christianity. A no brainer for those paying attention.

Why you would attempt to bait me into another pointless discussion that will only erupt in screams of pitiableness? No idea. Not something I wish to engage in.
bulproof
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9/12/2014 10:20:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/12/2014 10:07:53 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/12/2014 9:42:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/12/2014 7:03:25 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/12/2014 6:29:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/12/2014 4:05:13 AM, neutral wrote:
Its not a logically flawed inferrence if indeed the principles overlap - and in many cases they do. Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well. It just plain makes sense.

Christian theology claims that the only way to god/heaven is through Christ. Any religion or theology or philosophy that contradicts that theology naturally results in the failure of that person to reach god or heaven.

Thanks for fundamentally misreading everything I wrote.

Again BB, why you do this, I have no idea.

What are you talking about?

I asked a question regarding your contention here:
Christian theology may claim its the best, but it does not claim to be the only wisdom on Earth. Its precisely because God's wisdom is practicable and testable that it is found outside Christinaity as well.

Is god's wisdom the message that only those who follow christ will come to god/heaven?

If so then your claim is specious, god's wisdom is not practicable and testable and cannot in anyway be found outside christianity.

If christ is the only pathway to god then anyone who doesn't follow that pathway is doomed to hell, according to christian theology.

Again, when you understand it well enough to actually disagree with what I stated rather than fundamentally misunderstand what I said, and what our theology says, which has nothing whatsoever to do with whether other people might agree with some of the things we say, but not all, then I might assume that your intent is not simply flame bait and utter intransigence.

The role of Christ, in not the totality of Christianity. A no brainer for those paying attention.

Why you would attempt to bait me into another pointless discussion that will only erupt in screams of pitiableness? No idea. Not something I wish to engage in.

I am not baiting you, I am instead informing of what your theology teaches.

Let's face it you haven't even been alive as long as I was a catholic.

Your alleged knowledge of catholicism is so immature and insufficient, as well as inadequate that you continually post lies regarding catholic doctrine, just as you have here.

Whether or not you wish to engage with me in a discussion concerning your religious beliefs has more to do with your inadequacy regarding your beliefs, as I have shown numerous times.

And you are for once right.

The role of christ in christianity is a no brainer and your contention that it is unimportant to the MUCH wider non christian community is an argument from ignorance concerning the theology of the catholic church and therefore a NO BRAINER.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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9/12/2014 10:45:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/12/2014 10:20:25 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am not baiting you, I am instead informing of what your theology teaches.

I don't really care, because you just skipped what I said and completely maligned what I have now stated twice.

You aren't 'teaching' me anything, you are deliberately avoiding what I stated - not directed at you in the slightest - to once again jump into a conversation I am having with someone else - to fundamentally misapply my statements (even with clarification).

That you are instructed me, or even attempting to state that there are no instances of overlap (and differences) with other religions - is ludicrous.

You are instead trying to tell ME, a Christian, tat the role of jesus is central in Christianity, and is different than other religions .. which has absolutely noting to do with the instances of overlapping bits of wisdom and teaching that almost EVERY major religion on earth has.

And that you insist that this fundamentally misunderstanding out of the blue and again disrupting a conversation is anything other than you pursing a petty personal desire, which has been going on for months, is wantonly disingenuous.

I do not want to engage that dysfunction yet again bully boy. Please stay away from me.

You have just fundamentally misunderstood me twice, deliberately - and I know exactly what that means. I do not want to engage of clarify a statement that is just going to result in you attacking my character again.

If you seriously think you are teaching me that Christ has a different role in Christianity than he does in other religions? No crap. Thanks. You are not teaching me anything.

Yeah, forgiveness being good? Not a purely Christian concept.

Please don't do this again.
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
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9/12/2014 10:54:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/12/2014 10:45:34 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/12/2014 10:20:25 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am not baiting you, I am instead informing of what your theology teaches.

I don't really care, because you just skipped what I said and completely maligned what I have now stated twice.

You aren't 'teaching' me anything, you are deliberately avoiding what I stated - not directed at you in the slightest - to once again jump into a conversation I am having with someone else - to fundamentally misapply my statements (even with clarification).

That you are instructed me, or even attempting to state that there are no instances of overlap (and differences) with other religions - is ludicrous.

You are instead trying to tell ME, a Christian, tat the role of jesus is central in Christianity, and is different than other religions .. which has absolutely noting to do with the instances of overlapping bits of wisdom and teaching that almost EVERY major religion on earth has.

And that you insist that this fundamentally misunderstanding out of the blue and again disrupting a conversation is anything other than you pursing a petty personal desire, which has been going on for months, is wantonly disingenuous.

I do not want to engage that dysfunction yet again bully boy. Please stay away from me.

You have just fundamentally misunderstood me twice, deliberately - and I know exactly what that means. I do not want to engage of clarify a statement that is just going to result in you attacking my character again.

If you seriously think you are teaching me that Christ has a different role in Christianity than he does in other religions? No crap. Thanks. You are not teaching me anything.

Yeah, forgiveness being good? Not a purely Christian concept.

Please don't do this again.

Catholicism does indeed claim to be the only wisdom on earth and in fact claims to be the only pathway to god and heaven.

If you wish to deny this, as you have, then you are a heretic in the eyes of the Catholic church.

Do you care to rescind your heretical claims.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
neutral
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9/12/2014 11:42:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/12/2014 10:54:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/12/2014 10:45:34 AM, neutral wrote:
At 9/12/2014 10:20:25 AM, bulproof wrote:

I am not baiting you, I am instead informing of what your theology teaches.

I don't really care, because you just skipped what I said and completely maligned what I have now stated twice.

You aren't 'teaching' me anything, you are deliberately avoiding what I stated - not directed at you in the slightest - to once again jump into a conversation I am having with someone else - to fundamentally misapply my statements (even with clarification).

That you are instructed me, or even attempting to state that there are no instances of overlap (and differences) with other religions - is ludicrous.

You are instead trying to tell ME, a Christian, tat the role of jesus is central in Christianity, and is different than other religions .. which has absolutely noting to do with the instances of overlapping bits of wisdom and teaching that almost EVERY major religion on earth has.

And that you insist that this fundamentally misunderstanding out of the blue and again disrupting a conversation is anything other than you pursing a petty personal desire, which has been going on for months, is wantonly disingenuous.

I do not want to engage that dysfunction yet again bully boy. Please stay away from me.

You have just fundamentally misunderstood me twice, deliberately - and I know exactly what that means. I do not want to engage of clarify a statement that is just going to result in you attacking my character again.

If you seriously think you are teaching me that Christ has a different role in Christianity than he does in other religions? No crap. Thanks. You are not teaching me anything.

Yeah, forgiveness being good? Not a purely Christian concept.

Please don't do this again.

Catholicism does indeed claim to be the only wisdom on earth and in fact claims to be the only pathway to god and heaven.

If you wish to deny this, as you have, then you are a heretic in the eyes of the Catholic church.

Do you care to rescind your heretical claims.

No, it doesn't.

Catholicism does not claim it shares no attributes or claims with other religions. That is the third time you have fundamentally misunderstood what I said.

Go ahead, look for yourself rather than making crap up to be contrarian. Go ahead and find the Catholic Church, or any church for that matter, saying, "Gee, WE lay sole claim to the concept of forgiveness, mercy, justice, etc." Does it claim that Jesus is a central role that is different that other religions ... no friggin' crap.

I have desire to engage in yet another fundamentally dysfunctional stalking session with you, so you can stand there and call me heretical from a position that doesn't even exist.

Who are you fooling? You are here to wreck another personally reasonable conversation to pursue a nakedly personal prerogative. That you cannot even get the basic claim correct enough to rebut it properly is proof positive. You are butting in again in a terribly destructive and irresponsible manner.

Please don;t this. Until you can actually address the point that I have made repeatedly, lets not pretend you are here to rebut me rather than stalk me again.
Arasa
Posts: 380
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9/13/2014 11:42:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

Funnily enough, if both are correct, then both are going to paradise/heaven and hell. What a funny paradox...

Now, as for the likelihood that you are going to hell, I would say that I can't be certain of the actual percentage of Christianity to the rest of the world. I am fairly certain that in 2012 the Christian-to-non ratio was 1/7, which you are correct in that it is definitely lower than half. As for the generality of your post, I would say that there is an error: "Theists, you are probably going to Hell" would need to be corrected to "If theism is correct, then theists are probably going to Hell, and Atheists definitely are."

Just a minor correction, no hate meant. There is an old quote, for which I do not know the author, but they said that "If theism is wrong, then the theist loses nothing. If Atheism is wrong, then the atheist loses everything."

Sorry for the randomness of this, but I didn't really see an overall question in your post, so I responded to just about everything.
August Rasa, a 4:53 mind
MadCornishBiker
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9/13/2014 11:44:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/13/2014 11:42:23 AM, Arasa wrote:
At 9/11/2014 8:40:19 AM, Envisage wrote:
So, how does it feel? Tell me?

Given that most of the largest religions send people to hell if one does not believe in the existence of their entity, and the fact that none of these are greater than 50% abundance it follows statistically that you are most likely to go to hell on virtue of worshipping the wrong God.

Theist X (say, a Christian) claims Theist Y (say, a Muslim) is wrong, and vice versa. One of the 2 is guaranteed to go to hell according to both of their beliefs, so both parties should feel comforted by the fact that this applies to themselves too.

Funnily enough, if both are correct, then both are going to paradise/heaven and hell. What a funny paradox...

Now, as for the likelihood that you are going to hell, I would say that I can't be certain of the actual percentage of Christianity to the rest of the world. I am fairly certain that in 2012 the Christian-to-non ratio was 1/7, which you are correct in that it is definitely lower than half. As for the generality of your post, I would say that there is an error: "Theists, you are probably going to Hell" would need to be corrected to "If theism is correct, then theists are probably going to Hell, and Atheists definitely are."

Just a minor correction, no hate meant. There is an old quote, for which I do not know the author, but they said that "If theism is wrong, then the theist loses nothing. If Atheism is wrong, then the atheist loses everything."

Sorry for the randomness of this, but I didn't really see an overall question in your post, so I responded to just about everything.
August Rasa, a 4:53 mind

How about if neither are?