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the three ways of defending god

steffon66
Posts: 240
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9/11/2014 11:40:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Our ability to harm ourselves has grown to a point that we could bring on the apocalypse and we still draw our moralities and vision of how we should live in this world from ancient literature that was written back when people thought it was appropriate to kill people for their beliefs and the color of their skin, practice every kind of cruelty on all sorts of people, abuse women for speaking their minds, own slaves, sentence people with capital punishment for hundreds of offenses, own several wives at one time who didn"t choose to marry you and more. And these things were justified by this literature. We have modern technology with ancient mind sets and that should scare the hell out of you. There are only three ways people rise to the defense of god that I have heard. A person either argues that a specific religion is true, or they argue that religion is useful, or they argue that atheism is a religion too that is dogmatic and intolerant. Ill take the argument that one religion is true first. There are many religions so if one is true then a believer should expect to go to hell on probability because almost every other religion claims you will go to hell or a hellish place for not believing in it. they all contradict each other when they tell you how to get to heaven and if one is true then much more than 99.9 percent of people are going to hell to burn forever which is very irrational to believe when you also believe in a perfect god. Another problem with arguing that a specific religion is true is that the evidence is either terrible or non-existent. There are people today performing miracles in front of thousands of eye witnesses and they cant even get an hour on the discovery channel and we have ancient accounts of miracles that consist of mostly rumors of miracles and more than half the world believes them. something is wrong with that picture. Christianity Islam and I think a few others are based on the belief that the bible and the Quran were dictated by the creator of the universe. So there is a creator, he is god and he occasionally writes books. And they are believed to be true because the content of these books is so profound that it couldn"t have been produced by the human mind and it says god is perfect and good and that he has been responsible for more massacres and atrocities than any tyrant by far; and is responsible for more torture than every human who ever lived by far. Its taken thousands of years for some of the smartest men in the world to make improve upon things created by scientist long ago like newton. Now how easy would it be to improve upon the bible and other books? How long would it take? A matter of minutes? Take the ten commandments for instance. The second commandment is thou shalt not make any idols. Is this really the second most important precept we have? and thou shalt not kill is the 6th commandment while we think this is the most important rule. Other parts in the bible will tell you to kill people for victimless sins. The truth is almost any precept put in front of the second commandment would improve the bible. How about don"t mistreat children? Or don"t pretend to know things you don"t know? It took two thousand years and the smartest people in the world to improve upon newtons work and it took me less than a minute to improve upon the bible. And its so profound it must have been written by god? Yea right" the second way of defending the belief in the existence of god is to argue that it is so useful that its necessary. Even if that was the case this doesn"t give us reason to believe that its written by god. But how useful is it that people have such heart felt differences in opinions about what is perfect morality and who god is? is the conflict we see in the world useful? How useful is it that people think that a book written at a time when people obviously didn"t know right from wrong is the best foundation for a morality? how useful is it that religion gives us false answers to the most important questions you can ask yourself? All religions are contradictory. So much so that at least 99.9 percent of these answers are false. How useful is terrorism to the people? I know its useful to the people in the government who want to take away freedoms but is it good for everybody? Religion gives people bad reasons to be "good" when so many good reasons are available. When we feed the hungry and do all these good things is it better to do it because you care about people or because you think the creator of the universe wants you to do it? people do not need to be threatened with damnation to love their children, to love their neighbors, or to realize that helping others can be a great source of happiness. What about the notion that we get our moralities from the scripture? We see that very early on children show signs of morality by comforting people who are upset and studies have been done with kids who cant talk yet that show they like good people better than bad. Babies were shown a puppet show featuring a bad puppet and a good puppet and then they were given a choice as to which puppet they wanted and they chose the good puppet every single time. A person clearly doesn"t learn that cruelty is wrong by reading the bible. In fact a lot of passages in the bible suggest that cruelty is a good thing. God throws people in hell to burn forever for victimless sins. Why not be godlike if you believe in him and be cruel to those who don"t believe? You hate them and wish eternal torment on them. that is the epitome of hate. In the old testament we see the most immoral behavior imaginable. Sexual slavery, genocide, the kidnapping of children etc. and its all permitted by god and worse is done by god. By our standards today the people and this god would be considered to be psychopaths. And people argue against this stuff being immoral by saying it was appropriate in its time. It was appropriate in the ancient world? But they cant explain why it was appropriate when it isn"t appropriate now. they cant explain how bashing a kids head in for the sins of their parents was a good thing. And this and worse was justified by verses like exodus 20:5. They cant explain how killing someone for adultery did good yet they say these things were appropriate in their time. And im supposed to believe that adam and eve ate from a tree of knowledge that gave us all the knowledge of good and evil? Yea right. Gods followers are one of the biggest reasons I cant believe in religion because its obvious they don"t have a relationship with a perfect god. Why is it that we say that something written by a perfect god can now be safely ignored? And the bible in the old testament and new supports slavery. Its against many forms of freedom. How can one say that freedom was a bad thing back then but it"s a good thing now? and people say well god couldn"t stop slavery but he could give us ethics on how to treat slaves. And saying not to knock their teeth out or beat them so bad that they die on the spot but they can die a few days after you beat them and that"s alright is not good morality. this is not the kind of moral insight that got rid of slavery and cruelty. And physical and mental abuse of women" how was this appropriate back then and what changed to make it inappropriate now? and if these things that were perfect back in gods day are no long good then why hasn"t god given us a new book to live by? Why did we have to make these discoveries on our own? And if we can make these discoveries on our own then what do we need gods commandments for? In the bible it says that womens every decision is made by their fathers untill he decides who they should marry and then it"s the husbands duty to make decisions for her. The bible says that wives are to be subject to their husbands in everything. i would continue but im runing out of characters and i dont have enough to finish my next point.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/11/2014 12:02:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 11:46:32 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:40:54 AM, steffon66 wrote:

Dude.... Paragraphs...

If you hadn't said it, I would have... "PARAGRAPHS!"
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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9/11/2014 12:08:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You could have saved even more room by leaving out all of the spaces.

I seriously doubt anyone is going to read that.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
steffon66
Posts: 240
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9/11/2014 12:11:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 11:46:32 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:40:54 AM, steffon66 wrote:

Dude.... Paragraphs...

funny how people like you read what i write and all you can criticize is my grammar. guess i must be doing something right. my not using paragraphs doesnt keep you from understanding what ive said. you just want to make me feel stupid because i have made you feel stupid for believing in sugar plum fairies and what not.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/11/2014 12:12:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 12:11:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:46:32 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:40:54 AM, steffon66 wrote:

Dude.... Paragraphs...

funny how people like you read what i write and all you can criticize is my grammar. guess i must be doing something right. my not using paragraphs doesnt keep you from understanding what ive said.

Yes it does. There is a reason why paragraphs exist, as well as capital letters. If you want to be taken seriously then actually put a little effort into your presentation. Nobody wants to read a wall of text.

you just want to make me feel stupid because i have made you feel stupid for believing in sugar plum fairies and what not.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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9/11/2014 12:19:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 12:12:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:11:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:46:32 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:40:54 AM, steffon66 wrote:

Dude.... Paragraphs...

funny how people like you read what i write and all you can criticize is my grammar. guess i must be doing something right. my not using paragraphs doesnt keep you from understanding what ive said.

Yes it does. There is a reason why paragraphs exist, as well as capital letters. If you want to be taken seriously then actually put a little effort into your presentation. Nobody wants to read a wall of text.

you just want to make me feel stupid because i have made you feel stupid for believing in sugar plum fairies and what not.

on the contrary ive been on this sight for about a year and have had many debates without "putting effort into my presentations" and i have had many good discussions with people. truth is i dont know when to stop a paragraph or proper grammar because i never graduated high school. im working on my ged but i have only been working on math. havent gotten to english yet. so im sorry its not up to your standards but its not a lack of effort its a lack of knowledge of language. but my knowledge of religion is great and you can understand what ive said if you just quit crying and read it.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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9/11/2014 12:36:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 12:19:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:12:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:11:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:46:32 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:40:54 AM, steffon66 wrote:

Dude.... Paragraphs...

funny how people like you read what i write and all you can criticize is my grammar. guess i must be doing something right. my not using paragraphs doesnt keep you from understanding what ive said.

Yes it does. There is a reason why paragraphs exist, as well as capital letters. If you want to be taken seriously then actually put a little effort into your presentation. Nobody wants to read a wall of text.

you just want to make me feel stupid because i have made you feel stupid for believing in sugar plum fairies and what not.

on the contrary ive been on this sight for about a year and have had many debates without "putting effort into my presentations" and i have had many good discussions with people. truth is i dont know when to stop a paragraph or proper grammar because i never graduated high school. im working on my ged but i have only been working on math. havent gotten to english yet. so im sorry its not up to your standards but its not a lack of effort its a lack of knowledge of language. but my knowledge of religion is great and you can understand what ive said if you just quit crying and read it.

Even a paragraph out of place is better than a wall of text. I cannot even concentrate to read your OP. Paragraphs help the readers focus on reading what is written.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
steffon66
Posts: 240
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9/11/2014 2:53:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/11/2014 12:36:47 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:19:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:12:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 12:11:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:46:32 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/11/2014 11:40:54 AM, steffon66 wrote:

Dude.... Paragraphs...

funny how people like you read what i write and all you can criticize is my grammar. guess i must be doing something right. my not using paragraphs doesnt keep you from understanding what ive said.

Yes it does. There is a reason why paragraphs exist, as well as capital letters. If you want to be taken seriously then actually put a little effort into your presentation. Nobody wants to read a wall of text.

you just want to make me feel stupid because i have made you feel stupid for believing in sugar plum fairies and what not.

on the contrary ive been on this sight for about a year and have had many debates without "putting effort into my presentations" and i have had many good discussions with people. truth is i dont know when to stop a paragraph or proper grammar because i never graduated high school. im working on my ged but i have only been working on math. havent gotten to english yet. so im sorry its not up to your standards but its not a lack of effort its a lack of knowledge of language. but my knowledge of religion is great and you can understand what ive said if you just quit crying and read it.

Even a paragraph out of place is better than a wall of text. I cannot even concentrate to read your OP. Paragraphs help the readers focus on reading what is written.

yea but i just didnt want to try and do paragraphs and look dumber than i do when i dont do paragraphs but next time ill do paragraphs.